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ABC (ended 2010)

Why people REALLY hated the finale

  • Avatar of Guildy

    Guildy

    [1]May 27, 2010
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    This isn't going to be a bash each other thread. Please? I had this thought, and I wanted to share it.


    Our time with Lost has been like a whirlwind romance. Our mysterious stranger swept us off our feet, wined us, dined us, shown us new heights of passion and wonderment. Then, we had our last date, only to be told it was a lie, there was another, all that we shared doesn't really matter anymore. In fact, it never did, really. But we shouldn't be mad about the time and emotion we committed to the lie, we should be happy for the fun we had.


    That's why people are mad.We've been used, in the sense that we didn't get what was promised from the beginning. It's not that we didn't get answers. Not entirely. The root of the problem is we felt lied to. And the loophole of them not saying the flash sideways wasn't purgatory doesn't really cut it, either. They voided the idea of purgatory before the flash-sideways existed. It was more that they presented the show as something it wasn't. Or, they changed it on us at the very end. Neither of those two options are good things, and I don't see any other options.


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    adamfromny

    [2]May 27, 2010
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    Great post. I agree 100%.


    The title for Lost should've been: "Whatever happened, Doesn't Really Matter"


    At least we would have known what was coming.

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    BigStevie1973

    [3]May 27, 2010
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    The series finale of Lost was absolute pants. How come Lock was killed so easily after hudreds of years? And as for them all being dead - sure that was one of the first suggestions way back around season one or two and it doesn't really explain the whole island thing. They really weren't trying - a f*ckin' two-year-old could've come up with better.

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  • Avatar of Guildy

    Guildy

    [4]May 27, 2010
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    BigStevie1973 wrote:


    The series finale of Lost was absolute pants. How come Lock was killed so easily after hudreds of years? And as for them all being dead - sure that was one of the first suggestions way back around season one or two and it doesn't really explain the whole island thing. They really weren't trying - a f*ckin' two-year-old could've come up with better.




    Easily? Desmond had to shift that stone out of its hole to make that happen. Once he moved the stone, both the Protector and his Nemesis became mortal. They were no longer "like Jacob", although Jacob was killable enough, I suppose.


    Those who called this out (The Island being purgatory/hell) back in season 1 or 2 were right. So I will assume. ABC wanted to keep the show going, so this "ending" was tacked on for the last season.


    And really, PLEASE don't start bashing. A two year old could NOT have come up with better. The writers should have delivered a better ending than this, but it's what we got. Let's focus on Lost, not acting like children, or worse, politicians running smear campaigns

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    Kevnay777

    [5]May 27, 2010
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    I believe that the writers really wanted to end Lost the way it ended. Just that they screwed themselves over by creating a ton of mysteries that they weren't planning on answering. Which pissed people off.

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    Kneil_Shankman

    [6]May 27, 2010
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    Wow are there really these many retarded people over here?


    The Island was REAL. All six seasons ACTUALLY HAPPENED.


    The only thing that was purgatory was the flash-sideways, which was created when all of them died.


    This was so clearly and obviously explained in the show. Do they really need to beat you over the head with it for you to understand?

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    buildam2005

    [7]May 27, 2010
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    Kevnay777 wrote:

    I believe that the writers really wanted to end Lost the way it ended. Just that they screwed themselves over by creating a ton of mysteries that they weren't planning on answering. Which pissed people off.



    The other problem with the ending, whether it was planned out or not, has to do with how it cheapens the on-island story of the last five years. In many ways, it makes the characters' choices and fates unimportant--it doesn't matter what they did in their island lives, because they all have the same tidy resolution in the afterlife. Does it matter whether Locke got the relationship he wanted with his father in his real life? Nope! He got it in this afterlife thing. Does it matter that Shannon was killed on the island and Sayid was destroyed by it? Nope! He got her back in the afterlife. Does it matter whether Kate came to terms with her guilt and her need to constantly run away? Nope! She's innocent in the afterlife and gets to Jack and apparently is no longer followed by authorities.

    People claim the show was all about the characters, but what the finale did was ultimately make any growth and development the characters did in various ways in their lives unimportant, because they all ended up in the same place. Who cares if Kate, Claire, and the rest of the people on the plane had lives after the island? They just ended up in the afterlife with everyone else! It doesn't matter that Boone was killed relatively early and that Shannon and Jack blamed Locke--everyone's friends in the afterlife!

    Totally truncates every interesting character down to the lowest common denominator in the end. I would think that people who cared more about the characters than the plot would be the ones MOST upset by this finale, not the other way around, as their "resolutions" were nonexistent.
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  • Avatar of buildam2005

    buildam2005

    [8]May 27, 2010
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    Kneil_Shankman wrote:

    Wow are there really these many retarded people over here?


    The Island was REAL. All six seasons ACTUALLY HAPPENED.


    The only thing that was purgatory was the flash-sideways, which was created when all of them died.


    This was so clearly and obviously explained in the show. Do they really need to beat you over the head with it for you to understand?



    No, we don't need it beaten over our heads. We understand. If you read my previous post, you'll see what we mean by the fact that it made the whole series unimportant. Most people (though a few ARE confused, I'll give you that) understand that the island story happened. We're not retarded, and there's no need to be insulting about it.
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    JonnyK68

    [9]May 27, 2010
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    BigStevie1973 wrote:


    The series finale of Lost was absolute pants. How come Lock was killed so easily after hudreds of years? And as for them all being dead - sure that was one of the first suggestions way back around season one or two and it doesn't really explain the whole island thing. They really weren't trying - a f*ckin' two-year-old could've come up with better.




    Oh dear, please tell me you mean this only as a wind up? They are as dead as you and I. In that, one day, we will all be dead. But when they die they will all be united. The only dead/purgatory/gateway story they ran was in season 6, the final season. This was never an issue before in seasons 1 to 5, so they were not 'all dead'. Did you not get that?

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  • Avatar of buildam2005

    buildam2005

    [10]May 27, 2010
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    JonnyK68 wrote:

    BigStevie1973 wrote:


    The series finale of Lost was absolute pants. How come Lock was killed so easily after hudreds of years? And as for them all being dead - sure that was one of the first suggestions way back around season one or two and it doesn't really explain the whole island thing. They really weren't trying - a f*ckin' two-year-old could've come up with better.




    Oh dear, please tell me you mean this only as a wind up? They are as dead as you and I. In that, one day, we will all be dead. But when they die they will all be united. The only dead/purgatory/gateway story they ran was in season 6, the final season. This was never an issue before in seasons 1 to 5, so they were not 'all dead'. Did you not get that?



    I think (hope) he means that in the flash sideways/afterlife thing they're all dead, so I believe his point is that even though the writers promised everyone wasn't dead, and that was true on-island, the fact that they were actually dead in the flash-sideways seemed like a cheap way to get out of the sideways world. I don't think said poster believes they were dead on-island from the get-go.

    But I don't want to presume and put words in anyone's mouth.
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  • Avatar of JonnyK68

    JonnyK68

    [11]May 28, 2010
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    buildam2005 wrote:
    JonnyK68 wrote:


    BigStevie1973 wrote:


    The series finale of Lost was absolute pants. How come Lock was killed so easily after hudreds of years? And as for them all being dead - sure that was one of the first suggestions way back around season one or two and it doesn't really explain the whole island thing. They really weren't trying - a f*ckin' two-year-old could've come up with better.




    Oh dear, please tell me you mean this only as a wind up? They are as dead as you and I. In that, one day, we will all be dead. But when they die they will all be united. The only dead/purgatory/gateway story they ran was in season 6, the final season. This was never an issue before in seasons 1 to 5, so they were not 'all dead'. Did you not get that?


    I think (hope) he means that in the flash sideways/afterlife thing they're all dead, so I believe his point is that even though the writers promised everyone wasn't dead, and that was true on-island, the fact that they were actually dead in the flash-sideways seemed like a cheap way to get out of the sideways world. I don't think said poster believes they were dead on-island from the get-go. But I don't want to presume and put words in anyone's mouth.



    Haha, thanks for that. I've not heard anyone put it like that before and I can see the point now. So, I hope you're right about the poster, and maybe a few others who seem to put across the same viewpoint. I think the sideways universe was just a diversion that added to the suspense and set up a 'happy' ending (I think 'Happily Ever' After' the name of an episode towards the end of season 6, was a big clue as to where they were going). I do think it was a bit of a lame subplot, but the journey to the conclusion and was excellent and the resolution of it (the sideways timeline, I mean) to me didn't tarnish that journey.

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  • Avatar of Guildy

    Guildy

    [12]May 28, 2010
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    Kneil_Shankman wrote:


    Wow are there really these many retarded people over here?


    The Island was REAL. All six seasons ACTUALLY HAPPENED.


    The only thing that was purgatory was the flash-sideways, which was created when all of them died.


    This was so clearly and obviously explained in the show. Do they really need to beat you over the head with it for you to understand?



    For crying out loud. WE KNOW!!!!! That's not why people are pissed. Did you even read my first post? All the advertising for Lost, over 6 years, marketed the mysteries of the Island. In the end, when the time came to deliver on those promises, they did not deliver what they advertised. They gave us what is, while being a beautifully touching tale, is NOT the end of the story they were telling before.


    So, for the record:


    1. We know the island was real. What we refer to as the lie, is that the idea of the story being about these characters in purgatory was dismissed by the writers in seasons 1 and 2. Yes, they never said the alt-timeline wasn't purgatory, but come on. Really? Have you seen the commercial where a guy asks one kid if she wants a horse, while holding a toy horse. She says yes, and takes the toy horse. He then asks another little girl if she would like a horse. She says yes, and he gives her a real horse. The first child says "You didn't anything about a real horse" and he replies "You didn't ask". Even kids know when they're being ripped off.


    2. The flash sideways was not created when they all died, because they all died at different points in time. This was very clearly and obviously explained in the show by Christian. This point is, however, irrelevant.


    3. Lost was not marketed for 6 years as a character drama. It was marketed for its most popular aspects - the mysteries, THEN the characters. This is why people are upset over the finale.


    4. PLEASE, for the love of whatever deity is listening, No Bashing in here!

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    Torzhestvuyushe

    [13]May 28, 2010
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    I just felt that the ending acted like the idea of the flash-sideways being purgatory was this great enormous mystery that we were all just waiting to be solved and we were supposed to be so satisfied with that ending. As far as I'm concerned, the flash-sideways was not that big of a part of the story and to be honest, I didn't really care about it at all. It was only in 1 season. It had little ties to the previous seasons.


    The only thing the finale did for me was cement the idea that they really were making the vast majority of this up as they went along. That would explain why there were so many last-name changes. Miles Chang/Straume, Daniel Widmore/Faraday, Ethan Goodspeed/Rom. They didn't have that planned out from the beginning; they just made it up as they went along.


    The writers and many "finale lovers" claim that the show as "always about the characters". Then WHY were the mysteries so heavily a part of the show? That was what was in the ads, that was what the previous season finales ended with, the mysteries were a huge part of the show. Then with Season 6, they decided that many of those didn't matter, that it was "all about the characters". To me, that's corny and untrue.

    Edited on 05/28/2010 3:20pm
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  • Avatar of buildam2005

    buildam2005

    [14]May 28, 2010
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    Torzhestvuyushe wrote:

    I just felt that the ending acted like the idea of the flash-sideways being purgatory was this great enormous mystery that we were all just waiting to be solved and we were supposed to be so satisfied with that ending. As far as I'm concerned, the flash-sideways was not that big of a part of the story and to be honest, I didn't really care about it at all. It was only in 1 season. It had little ties to the previous seasons.


    The only thing the finale did for me was cement the idea that they really were making the vast majority of this up as they went along. That would explain why there were so many last-name changes. Miles Chang/Straume, Daniel Widmore/Faraday, Ethan Goodspeed/Rom. They didn't have that planned out from the beginning; they just made it up as they went along.


    The writers and many "finale lovers" claim that the show as "always about the characters". Then WHY were the mysteries so heavily a part of the show? That was what was in the ads, that was what the previous season finales ended with, the mysteries were a huge part of the show. Then with Season 6, they decided that many of those didn't matter, that it was "all about the characters". To me, that's corny and untrue.



    I also find it funny that all of these "it's all about the characters" people have come out of the woodwork, as something else occurred to me. Look at what people always come here and talk about. Let's take the end of season 5.

    What was all over the forums back then? Was it, "wow, let's talk about the character arcs from this season" or "who changed the most as a person on the show this year" or "how did X event affect Y character's outlook on Z"?

    NO.

    The forums were all THEORIES about the PLOT. What event X meant in terms of event Y or mystery Z. People RARELY (though it did happen) break down the "character journeys" when discussing what was happening. Look back through the forums--Jack's journey to becoming a man of faith from being a man of science, arguably the biggest and most important character arc of the SHOW, gets very little attention.

    But then, when it's clear that these mysteries aren't going to get resolved, that events aren't going to get tied up cohesively, what do people fall back on? The claim that it's "all about the characters," despite the fact that the characters are NOT what people have primarily discussed for the last six years. If it was truly about the characters and who they are, and how things affect them, people would have talked about that a whole hell of a lot more.

    I'm perfectly fine with people caring more about the characters. But don't cry out that that's what everything was about when people spent very little time contemplating or talking about them. If they're what people cared about, why didn't they get talked about more?
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  • Avatar of motleylil

    motleylil

    [15]May 28, 2010
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    Kevnay777 wrote:


    I believe that the writers really wanted to end Lost the way it ended. Just that they screwed themselves over by creating a ton of mysteries that they weren't planning on answering. Which pissed people off.



    Wow, I wouldn't put it like that, but I think that's quite true.


    And, dude, no bashing in here? That's just not going to happen. I've never seen so much anger on a single forum in all the time I've spent on forums. Say what you will about Damon & Carlton, but they did create a strong reaction in fans, if you allow me such an understatement.


    And another thing. Call me stupid, or whatever, but I'm actually satisfied with the answers they gave. It wasn't a lot, I agree, but to me it was enough.

    Edited on 05/28/2010 6:49pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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    Kevnay777

    [16]May 28, 2010
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    motleylil wrote:


    Kevnay777 wrote:


    I believe that the writers really wanted to end Lost the way it ended. Just that they screwed themselves over by creating a ton of mysteries that they weren't planning on answering. Which pissed people off.



    Wow, I wouldn't put it like that, but I think that's quite true.


    And, dude, do bashing in here? That's just not going to happen. I've never seen so much anger on a single forum in all the time I've spent on forums. Say what you will about Damon & Carlton, but they did create a strong reaction in fans, if you allow me such an understatement.


    And another thing. Call me stupid, or whatever, but I'm actually satisfied with the answers they gave. It wasn't a lot, I agree, but to me it was enough.




    I don't know if the whole msg was directed to me but I wasn't bashing. I was just simply stating my opinion. I didn't hate the finale just disappointed, and I still love Lost.

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    motleylil

    [17]May 28, 2010
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    Kevnay777 wrote:


    motleylil wrote:


    Kevnay777 wrote:


    I believe that the writers really wanted to end Lost the way it ended. Just that they screwed themselves over by creating a ton of mysteries that they weren't planning on answering. Which pissed people off.



    Wow, I wouldn't put it like that, but I think that's quite true.


    And, dude, do bashing in here? That's just not going to happen. I've never seen so much anger on a single forum in all the time I've spent on forums. Say what you will about Damon & Carlton, but they did create a strong reaction in fans, if you allow me such an understatement.


    And another thing. Call me stupid, or whatever, but I'm actually satisfied with the answers they gave. It wasn't a lot, I agree, but to me it was enough.




    I don't know if the whole msg was directed to me but I wasn't bashing. I was just simply stating my opinion. I didn't hate the finale just disappointed, and I still love Lost.



    Sorry if that was unclear. Only the first line was directed to you. The one about bashing was directed to the one who started the thread, and I meant to say "no bashing in here" instead of "do bashing in here". Amazing how one letter can completely turn a phrase around.

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    crashingdoors

    [18]May 28, 2010
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    Either I'm wasted or your writing is just terrible because I can barely make sense of what you (OP) wrote.

    All of you who felt lied to are looking at things too simply. If there's one thing that you should heave learned from watching LOST For 6 years it's that nothing is ever what it appears to be; nothing is ever simple. If you see a simple ending, you're not seeing everything, or maybe you're just too fumed for some reason. "Purgatory" sounds simple, we all know what it means (at least conceptually), it seems obvious. That's your first clue that something else is going on--it's a bit of a red herring, if you will.

    If you feel that you were lied to, that the ending/"purgatory" implies to you that apparently "nothing mattered"... there's your second clue. How many times were we told that we can't change the past, what's done is done? Everything mattered, you just have to know what to look at in order to understand that. And I don't mean to be condescending either, I truly truly don't. I understand how personally invested in these shows we (myself included) can become and that kind of emotion unfortunately plays with you.

    At this point, I've actually typed, deleted, re-typed and deleted my interpretation of the flash-sideways/purgatory motif but I don't see the point on a forum like this. Plus, it's a LOST forum! I'm not just going to give you all the (well, my) answers! If you think I'm a tool and are just going to go on a flame about my post, fine, but if you're interested in what I've said shoot me a PM and I'd love to have a discussion about the show.
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    crashingdoors

    [19]May 28, 2010
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    buildam2005 wrote:
    I also find it funny that all of these "it's all about the characters" people have come out of the woodwork, as something else occurred to me. Look at what people always come here and talk about. Let's take the end of season 5. What was all over the forums back then? Was it, "wow, let's talk about the character arcs from this season" or "who changed the most as a person on the show this year" or "how did X event affect Y character's outlook on Z"? NO. The forums were all THEORIES about the PLOT. What event X meant in terms of event Y or mystery Z. People RARELY (though it did happen) break down the "character journeys" when discussing what was happening. Look back through the forums--Jack's journey to becoming a man of faith from being a man of science, arguably the biggest and most important character arc of the SHOW, gets very little attention. But then, when it's clear that these mysteries aren't going to get resolved, that events aren't going to get tied up cohesively, what do people fall back on? The claim that it's "all about the characters," despite the fact that the characters are NOT what people have primarily discussed for the last six years. If it was truly about the characters and who they are, and how things affect them, people would have talked about that a whole hell of a lot more. I'm perfectly fine with people caring more about the characters. But don't cry out that that's what everything was about when people spent very little time contemplating or talking about them. If they're what people cared about, why didn't they get talked about more?


    Well, I think there's a bit of a misunderstanding--at least from my perspective. I've never theorized about the mysteries online; I've never spent hours looking at screen captures, trying to map out every exact detail of the show.


    I have watched the show, paying attention to those mysteries, but also taking sides with certain characters, thinking about how John would handle this situation compared to how Jack would & so on. I've never been a die-hard fan. I've watched every episode, many episodes I've watched multiple times, and I consider myself smart (I graduated with honors in literature, so I know a lot about analysis/criticism of fiction) so even though I'm not as invested in the series mysteries (ie: not up all night scouring screen captures for hidden clues), I am invested in the series. If you look back through my posts, I've rarely (I honestly think I could say "never", but my memory is terrible) discussed the show online but when I have discussed it with friends, IRL, it usually comes back to talking about the characters. The elements of mystery are a part of those discussions as well though, don't get me wrong. The way in which they react to the mysteries says a great deal about not only the individuals but the human condition as well. Personally, for me, that's where the story is. We all more-or-less know how a wife will react to a husband in a sitcom, or how a lover will react to a cheater in a drama, and we know what that says about the person. But what about, oh, I don't know, how a group of strangers reacts to a smoke monster?


    So to keep this short and sweet--I'm on here now "defending" the "it's about the characters" position because I absolutely loved the ending, and I've seen/heard (mostly on Facebook and the TV.com news section) about how people are so disappointed with the finale. So, I'm coming out of the "woodwork" to represent my opinion.

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    buildam2005

    [20]May 29, 2010
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    crashingdoors wrote:

    buildam2005 wrote:
    I also find it funny that all of these "it's all about the characters" people have come out of the woodwork, as something else occurred to me. Look at what people always come here and talk about. Let's take the end of season 5. What was all over the forums back then? Was it, "wow, let's talk about the character arcs from this season" or "who changed the most as a person on the show this year" or "how did X event affect Y character's outlook on Z"? NO. The forums were all THEORIES about the PLOT. What event X meant in terms of event Y or mystery Z. People RARELY (though it did happen) break down the "character journeys" when discussing what was happening. Look back through the forums--Jack's journey to becoming a man of faith from being a man of science, arguably the biggest and most important character arc of the SHOW, gets very little attention. But then, when it's clear that these mysteries aren't going to get resolved, that events aren't going to get tied up cohesively, what do people fall back on? The claim that it's "all about the characters," despite the fact that the characters are NOT what people have primarily discussed for the last six years. If it was truly about the characters and who they are, and how things affect them, people would have talked about that a whole hell of a lot more. I'm perfectly fine with people caring more about the characters. But don't cry out that that's what everything was about when people spent very little time contemplating or talking about them. If they're what people cared about, why didn't they get talked about more?


    Well, I think there's a bit of a misunderstanding--at least from my perspective. I've never theorized about the mysteries online; I've never spent hours looking at screen captures, trying to map out every exact detail of the show.


    I have watched the show, paying attention to those mysteries, but also taking sides with certain characters, thinking about how John would handle this situation compared to how Jack would & so on. I've never been a die-hard fan. I've watched every episode, many episodes I've watched multiple times, and I consider myself smart (I graduated with honors in literature, so I know a lot about analysis/criticism of fiction) so even though I'm not as invested in the series mysteries (ie: not up all night scouring screen captures for hidden clues), I am invested in the series. If you look back through my posts, I've rarely (I honestly think I could say "never", but my memory is terrible) discussed the show online but when I have discussed it with friends, IRL, it usually comes back to talking about the characters. The elements of mystery are a part of those discussions as well though, don't get me wrong. The way in which they react to the mysteries says a great deal about not only the individuals but the human condition as well. Personally, for me, that's where the story is. We all more-or-less know how a wife will react to a husband in a sitcom, or how a lover will react to a cheater in a drama, and we know what that says about the person. But what about, oh, I don't know, how a group of strangers reacts to a smoke monster?


    So to keep this short and sweet--I'm on here now "defending" the "it's about the characters" position because I absolutely loved the ending, and I've seen/heard (mostly on Facebook and the TV.com news section) about how people are so disappointed with the finale. So, I'm coming out of the "woodwork" to represent my opinion.



    I hope I didn't come across as trying to lump anyone who thinks it was always primarily about the characters was "wrong" or "stupid" or anything like that; I, too, think the foremost important thing is how characters are shaped, developed, and fully realized. My only point was that there are a lot of people that populate these forums and have for a long time that are NOW saying it was always about the characters but, when they have typically discussed the show in the past, it's been theorizing about the plot--and now that we're at the end and the plot was barely resolved, they've shifted focus to, it seems to me, be able to continue defending the show.

    And you're certainly entitled to believe that the end is not what it seems. I'm just not convinced that there's any compelling evidence at the end that that's the case. Saying, "Well, it's Lost, and nothing is ever what it seems in the show so the end can't be what it seems" doesn't entirely work. Poe, for example, was known for writing gothic fiction, but that doesn't mean in his short stories that didn't appear gothic/scary/mysterious must actually have been disguised gothic or mysterious (I was an English major, too). If you can draw conclusions from the show itself that indicates that things might be different, I really would love to hear them because maybe then I'd be less disappointed by the finale (that wasn't a "challenge" by any means--I meant it as an actual interest in what you're getting at here).
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