Lost Forums

ABC (ended 2010)

Why people REALLY hated the finale

  • Avatar of Guildy

    Guildy

    [21]May 29, 2010
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    motleylil wrote:


    Kevnay777 wrote:


    I believe that the writers really wanted to end Lost the way it ended. Just that they screwed themselves over by creating a ton of mysteries that they weren't planning on answering. Which pissed people off.



    Wow, I wouldn't put it like that, but I think that's quite true.


    And, dude, no bashing in here? That's just not going to happen. I've never seen so much anger on a single forum in all the time I've spent on forums. Say what you will about Damon & Carlton, but they did create a strong reaction in fans, if you allow me such an understatement.


    And another thing. Call me stupid, or whatever, but I'm actually satisfied with the answers they gave. It wasn't a lot, I agree, but to me it was enough.



    Dude, we're all adults here. We're allowed to have a difference of opinion, and we should be able to discuss those differences rationally, without lowering ourselves into a flame war.


    I won't call you stupid, but I will ask you to honestly look back and try to recall what intrigued you the most of the first five seasons, the plot, or the character development. If you can honestly tell yourself it was the characters, then in a way, I sort of envy you. But I watched for the plot, and if that makes me callous and selfish, then so be it.

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  • Avatar of Guildy

    Guildy

    [22]May 29, 2010
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    crashingdoors wrote:
    Either I'm wasted or your writing is just terrible because I can barely make sense of what you (OP) wrote. All of you who felt lied to are looking at things too simply. If there's one thing that you should heave learned from watching LOST For 6 years it's that nothing is ever what it appears to be; nothing is ever simple. If you see a simple ending, you're not seeing everything, or maybe you're just too fumed for some reason. "Purgatory" sounds simple, we all know what it means (at least conceptually), it seems obvious. That's your first clue that something else is going on--it's a bit of a red herring, if you will. If you feel that you were lied to, that the ending/"purgatory" implies to you that apparently "nothing mattered"... there's your second clue. How many times were we told that we can't change the past, what's done is done? Everything mattered, you just have to know what to look at in order to understand that. And I don't mean to be condescending either, I truly truly don't. I understand how personally invested in these shows we (myself included) can become and that kind of emotion unfortunately plays with you. At this point, I've actually typed, deleted, re-typed and deleted my interpretation of the flash-sideways/purgatory motif but I don't see the point on a forum like this. Plus, it's a LOST forum! I'm not just going to give you all the (well, my) answers! If you think I'm a tool and are just going to go on a flame about my post, fine, but if you're interested in what I've said shoot me a PM and I'd love to have a discussion about the show.


    I'm not going to flame you. It's not about the fact we didn't get the answers. It was the fact that the show was sold to us on the mysteries. Look back at the original run of show. Not the episodes, but the advertising. What did they aim all the previews and teasers at? The mysteries of the Island. How many times have they used the clip of Charlie saying "Guys.... what is this place?" And until the last 30 minutes of the finale, that was still how they were treating the show. I personally loved the finale, right up until Christian showed up. That ending just felt tacked on and very rushed. Essentially they turned 5 1/2, almost 6 seasons on a red herring.


    In all honesty, I think this is what was planned in the beginning, except instead of the flash-sideways being"purgatory" (which is simply a word being used to describe the "waiting room" idea, not a literal Purgatory), the Island was going to play that role. Unfortunately, the audience had that idea in the first two seasons, and they came out and said "No, nobody's dead". Which meant they couldn't use the Island in that way. Somebody had the bright idea of focusing more on the mysteries, and they got carried away with it. Whether they painted themselves into a corner, or planned to use the flash-sideways as purgatory early on, I don't know.


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  • Avatar of crashingdoors

    crashingdoors

    [23]May 29, 2010
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    The show was definitely sold to us as a giant mystery but there's a difference between what's advertised and how we interpret what we see, once we see it. But I suppose what I'm trying to get at is that the mysteries are great, I love them, they're a major part of the show but they really set the foundation for the characters. Then again--and in general, even though I may tend to use a lot of pronouns--this is simply the way I take the show, and I'm not necessarily offended if everyone else but me takes it differently.



    buildam2005 wrote:
    I hope I didn't come across as trying to lump anyone who thinks it was always primarily about the characters was "wrong" or "stupid" or anything like that; I, too, think the foremost important thing is how characters are shaped, developed, and fully realized. My only point was that there are a lot of people that populate these forums and have for a long time that are NOW saying it was always about the characters but, when they have typically discussed the show in the past, it's been theorizing about the plot--and now that we're at the end and the plot was barely resolved, they've shifted focus to, it seems to me, be able to continue defending the show. And you're certainly entitled to believe that the end is not what it seems. I'm just not convinced that there's any compelling evidence at the end that that's the case. Saying, "Well, it's Lost, and nothing is ever what it seems in the show so the end can't be what it seems" doesn't entirely work. Poe, for example, was known for writing gothic fiction, but that doesn't mean in his short stories that didn't appear gothic/scary/mysterious must actually have been disguised gothic or mysterious (I was an English major, too). If you can draw conclusions from the show itself that indicates that things might be different, I really would love to hear them because maybe then I'd be less disappointed by the finale (that wasn't a "challenge" by any means--I meant it as an actual interest in what you're getting at here).


    I see what you're saying, and I can't really speak to that since I rarely visited here so take back my implications that you were trying to lump anyone.


    To be completely honest, I don't have one big solid theory about the end but I have a very strong feeling that, because it's LOST, there's a lot more going on with the final season. There's a lot more that's not being talked about because the focus--in the forums, in discussions I've had with best friends, etc--is on how terrible/lazy/etc the end is, and there isn't enough of the kind of discussion that I'm leaning towards. We're all looking one way--"purgatory"--and talking about that but something else entirely is going on.


    Once it's on Blu-Ray I'm definitely going to pore over the season some more because I have little threads of an argument right now but I'm not able to account for enough pieces of the story to make a solid statement (ie: I speed-watched the show after the end of the semester on Hulu, in about a day, trying to watch it all before Hulu yanked the episodes--half of season 5 and all of season 6). Basically I see the end as, not an alternate timeline, but as near-death experience. (And I'm using NDE just like we're all using "purgatory"; just for lack of a better word). Series begins: Jack opens his eyes (re-awakening). Series ends: Jack closes his eyes (death). Without Jack there isn't a story, so if Jack's death is the last thing we see, nothing else happens afterward. There isn't a purgatory, the happy-hugs-lights-church scene is more-or-less a literary device in which for once we get to see Jack's thoughts. The flash-sideways could also represent the rest of that NDE, although like I said I don't want to commit to that idea since I'm not extremely familiar with the intricacies of that material. Desmond's presence, and awareness of both planes of existence, complicates the theory though--If the FS is Jack's NDE, how is Desmond aware of it in the main timeline? So either I'm way off course, or there's a strong connection between Jack and Desmond, perhaps having to do with the fact that they both went through the electromagnetic field, and Desmond caught a glimpse of whatever was going through Jack's head. Then the question would be, "how could Desmond have seen that if the NDE hadn't happened yet?" and my response would be that Jack had such thoughts in his head for a long time. He's an extremely emotional person, whether or not he admits it.


    Anyway this is all basically on the fly, so I apologize if I seem to ramble. Like I suggested, I'm not necessarily committed to these statements, but I wanted to get the ball rolling at least, instead of continuing to hate on the finale. Still, I do believe that there's something more going on here than a lazily put together ending. It was announced, what, 2 or 3 years ago that the show would end by season 6? That alone leads me to believe that there is a deeper meaning.


    You make a good point about Poe but with all respect, Poe wrote many separate stories and had no obligation (except perhaps to his reputation) to always write Gothic fiction. LOST, although it tells many stories of many characters, is a unified piece of work. As a unified piece of a work--a series that connects its characters in very detailed, intricate ways--we should expect that unity to extend itself throughout the entire run, and the creators have been great about keeping up their standards. Not all the time, of course, especially with some of the smaller arcs focusing on secondary characters--but as for the main arc of the show, that unity has been strong.


    Getting back to my original point, then, if LOST has been about "something more going on" throughout the run, some mystery that we're all always searching for, why not search for it in the finale episodes as well? It's different, it's not (at least not explicitly) as sci-fi/supernatural, but it's potentially more mysterious than any of the show's mysteries. I'd venture to say that it's definitely more mysterious, given the fact that no-one, myself included, have come to a definite conclusion about the end. Everyone thinks it's so obvious, it's purgatory, it's an alternate timeline which breaks rules, but I have faith that there's a lot more to it. Just because it's not a smoke monster, it's not interesting or intriguing? Even if we could objectively know that the writers just slapped some s--- together, I'd rather talk about what else may be happening instead of feeling cheated. We're all smart people, I'm sure we'll figure out an explanation once the hype about the finale dies down.


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  • Avatar of motleylil

    motleylil

    [24]May 29, 2010
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    Guildy wrote:


    motleylil wrote:


    Kevnay777 wrote:


    I believe that the writers really wanted to end Lost the way it ended. Just that they screwed themselves over by creating a ton of mysteries that they weren't planning on answering. Which pissed people off.



    Wow, I wouldn't put it like that, but I think that's quite true.


    And, dude, no bashing in here? That's just not going to happen. I've never seen so much anger on a single forum in all the time I've spent on forums. Say what you will about Damon & Carlton, but they did create a strong reaction in fans, if you allow me such an understatement.


    And another thing. Call me stupid, or whatever, but I'm actually satisfied with the answers they gave. It wasn't a lot, I agree, but to me it was enough.



    Dude, we're all adults here. We're allowed to have a difference of opinion, and we should be able to discuss those differences rationally, without lowering ourselves into a flame war.


    I won't call you stupid, but I will ask you to honestly look back and try to recall what intrigued you the most of the first five seasons, the plot, or the character development. If you can honestly tell yourself it was the characters, then in a way, I sort of envy you. But I watched for the plot, and if that makes me callous and selfish, then so be it.



    I understand we're able to talk calmly as adults here, I was just noting that people don't seem willing to do that.


    I will be as honest as I can be. I started watching Lost because I had nothing better to do. I continued to watch Lost beyond season 1 because I though it was interesting, well written, well directed, well acted, the music was awesome, and I wanted to know what was going on. Yes, part of the interest for me came from the mysteries, but to me that wasn't the most important part. That's all. Yes, of course I wouldn't have been against the idea of having more answers, I just think that the way they told the story is perfect for what I watched it for: good storytelling. I don't need any more than what I've got. I'm satisfied.


    But, the thing about plot is that we don't see a plot the same way. Take, for example, the pregnancy issues. I'm okay with the fact that they just said "On the Island, there are pregnancy issues. We don't say why, but here it is." And for there they just built the part of the story that does matter, with Ben ordering experiments to be made, getting Juliet on board, and so forth. The cause of the issue itself doesn't matter all that much to me. Much like the universe. I accept the fact that I'll surely never know for sure how the hell it got there. But, you might say, the universe and pregnancy issues on a TV show are not really the same thing. And you would be right.


    And on the other hand, you have the stuff like the Hurley bird. I completely agree that when a bird just flies over people's heads, yells "HURLEY!" and flies away, never to be heard from again, you have every right to ask what the hell that was. Me, I just accept the fact that there are things I'll never know.

    Edited on 05/29/2010 2:51pm
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  • Avatar of JonnyK68

    JonnyK68

    [25]May 31, 2010
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    @ motleylil


    I have a similar take, in that some things you just have to accept as 'well, I guess I won't ever know anymore than I do about that, but I'm satisfied with what has been revealed/resolved. I think the pregnancy thing was because the island boosted the immune system of the body, and treated newly conceived foetuses as foreign bodies. Not sure why the mothers also died, maybe it would be due to massive internal trauma. Interestingly I wonder if the island gave Jin more chance to impregnate Sun, orif she was already pregnant, which I think she was (they do make that clear, I'm sure, but I've forgotten what they said)



    @crashingdoors


    I really like the way you have put across your replies. I could not have worded my thoughts as well as you have, so I thank you for putting on here a few points that I have had to. Particularly regarding the focus of discussion since the finale. I think when the furore dies down a bit, there will be some good discussion of the final season and finale on here.

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  • Avatar of crashingdoors

    crashingdoors

    [26]May 31, 2010
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    I have faith that eventually the discussion will turn around and become more productive, hopefully sooner rather than later.



    Anyway there's one matter of contention that I've seen in a lot of different threads--the pregnancy issue. It came up just a few posts ago in this thread too, and I can't remember where but I know that I've posed a theoretical answer to this issue in a thread (or maybe on a Facebook wall discussion).


    There are issues with women giving birth on the island. Jacob and MIB come from a very screwed up family, mainly with mommy issues. Practically everything that happened was a result of mommy issues--at least that's how it began. Jacob's fake-mom was crazy, and MIB went darkside when he realized that his "mom" was a murderer. So, Jacob exists for centuries with that family baggage and he has issues with pregnancies. I can't account for the entire history of the island while under Jacob's protection, but when Dharma shows us, Jacob does not allow women to give birth for the irrational reason that he had a terrible mom. Seems petty, but he's still human. Or, if it's no longer human, he still has humanity inside of him.

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    Kevnay777

    [27]May 31, 2010
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    Well that seems kind of a weird reason for the pregnancy issues just because Jacob doesn't want it. I heard of a theory that the electromagnetism might have been causing the issues

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    KingofIPirates

    [28]May 31, 2010
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    crashingdoors wrote:
    but when Dharma shows us, Jacob does not allow women to give birth for the irrational reason that he had a terrible mom. Seems petty, but he's still human. Or, if it's no longer human, he still has humanity inside of him.
    People in the Dharma Initiative were still giving birth on account of Ethan being born. It was only after several years since they've been on the island the apparent pregnancy issues took place.
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    drabah1980

    [29]May 31, 2010
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    motleylil wrote:

    Kevnay777 wrote:


    I believe that the writers really wanted to end Lost the way it ended. Just that they screwed themselves over by creating a ton of mysteries that they weren't planning on answering. Which pissed people off.



    Wow, I wouldn't put it like that, but I think that's quite true.


    And, dude, no bashing in here? That's just not going to happen. I've never seen so much anger on a single forum in all the time I've spent on forums. Say what you will about Damon & Carlton, but they did create a strong reaction in fans, if you allow me such an understatement.


    And another thing. Call me stupid, or whatever, but I'm actually satisfied with the answers they gave. It wasn't a lot, I agree, but to me it was enough.



    I agree with you. I have to say after first viewing, I was like 'wait! what?' but then the more I thought about it, the more I liked it. After a few days I began to realize what it was that had initially left me so bewildered. I have no problem with the way they ended the show. I think that The Incident is what created the 'Purgatory' type place for them and I'm fine with knowing that as they each passed away they went to that place. I'm even ok with Jack's death right at the end. I thought it was a neat way to end the show, since it began with Jack's eye opening in that very spot, for it to end there with his eye closing.

    For me, I just wanted more. What LOST fan doesn't? It wasn't enough for me to know that Hurley became the new Jacob/new Jack and that Ben was his #2. I wanted to see it. It wasn't enough that Frank, Richard, Miles, Claire, Kate and Sawyer flew off the Island. I wanted to see what happened when they got back. How was Claire's relationship with Aaron? What happened to Richard, considering he had basically lived on the Island since the 1800s? For me to have real LOST closure, I felt like that was necessary.

    In looking at it, I realize now that they could not have shown us this without another few episodes, in which, the whole afterlife thing would've been given away and it wouldn't have been the surprising finale that they'd wanted, but still. That's just me.

    I guess it shows what a true fan of LOST that I am, because even after all that I still want more! LOST will always be right up there as one of my very favorite shows and even though the ending was not what I had anticipated, I vastly enjoyed the ride.
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  • Avatar of Delameko

    Delameko

    [30]Jun 1, 2010
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    Kevnay777 wrote:


    Well that seems kind of a weird reason for the pregnancy issues just because Jacob doesn't want it. I heard of a theory that the electromagnetism might have been causing the issues




    Personally I think it's because of the water. The only people this seemed to affect were the Others, and I'm assuming they all went to the Temple.


    We never did find out how Cindy etc. got turned into Others so easily...

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    KingofIPirates

    [31]Jun 1, 2010
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    Delameko wrote:

    Personally I think it's because of the water. The only people this seemed to affect were the Others, and I'm assuming they all went to the Temple.


    The same water they've been drinking for potentially thousands of years?
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    Kevnay777

    [32]Jun 1, 2010
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    Now that I think about it the others might have been making up the pregnancy issues the whole time. The whole point was for Ben to recruit Juliet because she looked like "her". We know that Juliet was "her" because in 1977 she operated on Ben to try to save his life. The others probably manipulated Juliet to believe that the pregnancy issues were true. After all Ben is probably the master manipulator of the show. Also if anything the island helps pregnant woman. Jin was said to be infertile or something, so him and Sun can't have a baby. But they did conceive on the island. Like I said Juliet was probably manipulated to believe that the pregnancy issues were true, which is why she told Sun that the time they conceived was so important.

    Edited on 06/01/2010 8:33am
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  • Avatar of KingofIPirates

    KingofIPirates

    [33]Jun 1, 2010
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    Kevnay777 wrote:

    Now that I think about it the others might have been making up the pregnancy issues the whole time. The whole point was for Ben to recruit Juliet because she looked like "her". We know that Juliet was "her" because in 1977 she operated on Ben to try to save his life. The others probably manipulated Juliet to believe that the pregnancy issues were true. After all Ben is probably the master manipulator of the show. Also if anything the island helps pregnant woman. Jin was said to be infertile or something, so him and Sun can't have a baby. But they did conceive on the island. Like I said Juliet was probably manipulated to believe that the pregnancy issues were true, which is why she told Sun that the time they conceived was so important.

    I recall Juliet operating and trying to save the life of an other who was pregnant and after failing was flustered and sorrowful.
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    Delameko

    [34]Jun 2, 2010
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    KingofIPirates wrote:
    Delameko wrote:


    Personally I think it's because of the water. The only people this seemed to affect were the Others, and I'm assuming they all went to the Temple.


    The same water they've been drinking for potentially thousands of years?



    Yeah. We've seen that no one persists on the island. They all die out eventually. It also links quite nicely with the Others stealing the kids, because they can't have any of their own.

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    KingofIPirates

    [35]Jun 2, 2010
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    Delameko wrote:
    We've seen that no one persists on the island. They all die out eventually. It also links quite nicely with the Others stealing the kids, because they can't have any of their own.
    They only started stealing kids recently, it was around the late 70's when this problem seemed to arise. Before that there was no indication they suffered this problem as Ethan from the Dharma Initiative was born as recently as the early 70's.
    Edited on 06/02/2010 11:01am
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    Kevnay777

    [36]Jun 2, 2010
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    Actually the Others claim that they steal kids to make their lives better because they have food, clothes, and shelter.

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    mouseland

    [37]Jun 3, 2010
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    Why do we hate the ending of Lost so much?


    I don't hate it. I just don't like it. I'm just different and I hope people can accept that.


    These are the possible reasons I came up with.


    Possible Reason 1: Right or Wrong Audience. Probably anequal number of men and women watched Lost. Most women tend to love fantasy, "happily ever after", and/or eternal love. On the other hand, some mendon't. If you love the finale and you are a man, you are probably in touch with your feminine side or believe in heaven. Nothing wrong with that. If 24 had ended with a happily ever after in heaven like Lost, I imagine the rating would be so low because 24 is a men's show.


    Possible Reason 2: Misinformation. Lost wasa drama in the beginning. It was both drama and science fiction in the middle. It was a fantasy in the end. If I didn't like the ending, why didI watch Lost? I didn't think it was going to turn into a fantasy. In fact, they denied the possibility of a purgatory. In general, a science fiction showends like a science fiction show. An action showends like an action show.


    Possible Reason 3: Belief in God, Afterlife and Supernatural Phenomena. If you are a non-believer, things that are too far from reality simply bore you. You probably don't enjoy fantasy and do like to solve things. You mayseethings in black and white.


    Possible Reason 4: An Amount ofTime Spent. No matter what others say, the ending is crucial to me. I throw away books or take them to a second-hand bookstore if I don't like the endings. In the case of non-serialized shows, the worst thing that can happen is wasting one hour. In the case of serialized shows like 24, the story in each season is complete, so if you get a bad season, you can forget it. The loss would be 24 hours at most. In the case of Lost, it was the whole 6 seasons. You can do the math if you like.

    Edited on 06/03/2010 6:12am
    Edited 5 total times.
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    ayepes

    [38]Sep 6, 2010
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    I HATE it because they go to Heaven because of solving their issues and not because of being good people(well, being a good person: 50% solving their issues: 50%

    It doesn't make sense, Why does good people has to solve their issues in order to go to Heaven, it is like if someone had to get over intense desire for ice-cream in order to go to a place where he can have ice-cream 24/7,???

    -How having a son will solve Jack issues with his father?, wouldn't it be much simpler if right after Jack dies, Christian appears to him an tells jack that he loves him. but no, the producers have to fool us into believing that was the alternate universe.

    -How being a paralytic again will solve Locke's issues of being a paralytic
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    cindycee

    [39]Sep 9, 2010
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    i think peoples upset about the final just shows how connected to it we were for sure, i mean people wouldnt be so upset if they hadnt invested themselves in it emotionally. its like a child, u have all these dreams about how their life should turn out, but in the end u have to let them determine it, and let go.

    there will always be people who arent happy with how things turned out, and i understand that, i personally enjoyed the final, though there are other outcomes that could have been just as satisfying to me, and perhaps others too. but im happy to let go.

    as far as great finals go, i think one of the best finals i have ever seen is the angel final, because it didnt leave me feeling cold, it didnt compromise any of the characters, and there was a tiny bit of hope left and the space to let the audience imagine the outcome. but there are still people who arent satisfied with that ending either, thats just the way it is.
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    buildam2005

    [40]Sep 11, 2010
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    cindycee wrote:


    as far as great finals go, i think one of the best finals i have ever seen is the angel final, because it didnt leave me feeling cold, it didnt compromise any of the characters, and there was a tiny bit of hope left and the space to let the audience imagine the outcome. but there are still people who arent satisfied with that ending either, thats just the way it is.


    Totally agree with you about the Angel finale. It gave great payoff to the characters (Spike in that bar with the poem is HILARIOUS), hwas thematically relevant, and took the show out the way it deserved to go out.

    People just get annoyed because they see the episode as a cliffhanger, and while technically that might be true, it lined up perfectly with the show's major themes, and its detractors tend not to notice or acknowledge that fact.
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