Firsly i would like to question how people can say that this episode was any good at all. Though it was not the worst episode of the show to date it wasn't far off. I dont really see why the show took the direction of the flash forwards as to me it doesnt seem too necessary and has removed part of the mystery of Lost. Anyway on to this episode.
I can sum up what happened in one word. Nothing! Considering there were only 8 shows filmed pre the strike this is a worry what the final ep recorded is brining. There was a total waste of on screen time whilst we were watching Jin chase the panda, yes we all thought he was going to see Sun. But it would have made no difference had we seen him running around at all. It was just a useless ploy to waste time on the episode, as it was revealed at the end he was dead anyway so why all the run around. Other than the fact Jin was dead the only thing that was found out is that Michael is on the boat, which anyone should have guessed about 3 weeks ago if not more. One of the most obvious plot lines ever written!
The use of a whole episode to show us that Sun has a baby and Jin is dead and introducing michael on the boat is just a joke and makes a mockery of us as the watching public. Now we know what happens in the future to Sun and Jin why bother to show us any more about them at all, it serves no purpose to us. The same can be said for Kate in Eggtown, we now know she is off the island and she has essentially got away without a prison term. So what if she has Aaron. The ineptitude of people to think these things through and essentially end the development of characters who have been key to the show as a whole just outlines the inferiority of this show compared with the likes of Heroes, Prison Break etc. if you ask why i still watch, its because there is nothing else on tv at the moment and i being that i have watched this much i will be frustrated if i miss the one episode where the writers show a glimmer of sense and make use of ths onscreen time with something actually happening worth a 45 minute watch
I feel robbed.
For over 2 seasons we've been waiting for the return of Michael, and this is how they reward us? With one of the most telegraphed reveals in the show's history? No subtlety. Huge hints all along the way (anyone who hadn't already figured out that he was Ben's man certainly would have gotten it by any of the hints tonight). And then that long walk down the hallway... not a dramatic reintroduction, not even a shocking one, just an anticlimactic walk where we could tell who that janitor was long before he had reached Sayid and Desmond. Then there was Sun. Tonight she had all the complexity and depth of a sheet of paper. Suddenly, after deceiving Jin for years, she simply refuses to lie, even to protect herself or her child? She has no emotion, no authentic motivation, and even her slap at Juliette seemed to lack any real feeling. If you didn't already dread Sun/Jin-centric episodes you certainly have reason to now.
And I have to mention the rules of filmmaking that were violated tonight. Yes, Lost has managed to get us to suspend disbelief more than most shows can, and has convinced us to accept that we can travel both forwards and backwards in time (and don't get me wrong, the flash forwards and flashbacks have had their moments of true greatness), but having a combined flash-forward-flashback intercut scene is a bridge too far. How are we ever to believe that what we are seeing is really what we are seeing? I can just imagine a scene with Jack standing on the beach talking, facing left, and Locke standing at the barracks, facing right, and the editors cutting it so that it looks like they are talking to each other. You can get us to suspend any disbelief, but we need to have certain film conventions to hold onto, or we simply won't be able to follow along without feeling like we've been conned. We, like Desmond, need our Constant.
And tonight, Lost threw away her phone number.
These flash forwards don't add much if anything in the way of quality from what has been seen, and in typical fashion, because it's a newer episode, it's get heavily (and I emthpsis it totally this time) overrated.
Yunjim Kim is a good actress, her character "sun" is very likable, the problem is, everything surrounding her in this episode is fluff, she's not given enough good content, and when she's given content, it's drab, contrived and melodramatic day-time drama muck, instantly forgettable. It's a shame really, Evangeline Lilly gets more screen time for the most part in lost, more story lines, more pivotal roles, yet it's pretty clear Yunjim Kim is better on screen, if anything I suspect Lilly got the role more on her aesthetic appearance than her acting skills. At the moment, lost feels like a raft floating at sea, sure, there is more information being put forward, but there's no shining jewel moments from this season so far, it's all so-so, no button that will destroy the world, no monster killing off people, for the most part it's. Locke's group, Jacks group, and the guys on the boat, other than that, not alot going on, charisma is lacking.
Overall, I gave this episode 5, 4 out of those 5 go to Yunjim Kim, 1 goes to the 95% fluff of the episode, it was just abit, well.....boring.
Again this episode wasnt what I wanted. you mean most manipulative? misleading? keep in mind Jin's flashbacks served no purpose but to be a red herring they had nothing to do with the story being told, it's bad writing. They can't justify showing that.
Try watching the episode again and not getting irritated knowing he's buying a panda for a stranger.
And whats with the children's comedy music going on during that slapstick scene with the cell phone?
gimme a break ridiculous, waste of LOST-time Hopefully next weeks will be better, and carry us through til April. Again just prey it gets better.
i really didn't like all the sun/Jin-centric episodes in the previous seasons, as i have to admit i forwarded them all. i don't get what is in any way interesting about them. There are far more interesting characters on the island, a few of them already killed of for whatever unnecessary reason (boone and shannon, for example) so i have to sit through another Sun/Jin-thing, boring as usual (the affair sun had really doesn't fly anymore being the only interesting thing about the two of them ever). ok, michael showed up, quite a suprise who would have thought. but i think that sun and jin have had enough screen time already.
After the unadulterated silliness of "The Constant" and the somewhat predictable "The Other Woman", this episode returns to a realistic level of interpersonal relationships which has been sorely lacking in the show of late (Desmond's sappy pining for Penny while trying to stabilize himself within the space/time continuum does NOT qualify!). It shows quite clearly that Jin realized how much he had changed over the course of his relationship and marriage to Sun and how close he came to losing her. What I found slightly annoying was the fact that the writers seriously overplayed the flashback/flashforward device in that they were doing both at the same time. When it became apparent that the "flashforward" scenes of Jin (while Sun was having the baby) were actually flashBACKS to a time prior to Oceanic 815 ever leaving the ground, I was tempted to find the writers of this episode and give them a refresher course on the limits of "Suspension of Disbelief" in writing. Granted.....in the context of this show, suspension of disbelief is required....within limits! If they continue to go way past the acceptable line, then it won't be long before every storyline gets wrapped up with a great big "Deus Ex Machina" ending. The fans who have stuck by this show when absolutely NO ONE knew where it was going or even where it was deserve better than that.
For me the flashbacks and fast forwards have always helped form an essential part of the story but lately they simply feel that the writers and producers are just running out of ideas to fill 1 hour of commercial television time. I certainly agree with gsager1 in the way they used them tonight - I couldn't fathom it! The Panda sequence probably had everyone going a bit and yes that was clever but guys,ENOUGH please! There seems to be more content flashing forward and backward than in the PRESENT. By the way, who the hell wrote the dialog between Jin and Bernard on the boat? Do you recall the with wedding rings line "You and I not married" says Bernard - PLEASE!!! Anyway, don't get me wrong guys (producers if you're reading) the flashbacks and fast forwards are fine in moderation. Give us more Island drama, conflict - that's what we love!! Love ya LOST! Don't get found! What will we do!??
If the previous episode was somewhat divisive and (based on the subsequent ratings dip) dissatisfying, this installment focuses on pre-existing relationships on the island and relatively simple revelations on the boat. Both plot threads are ultimately compelling for their own reasons. This back-to-basics approach should help to overcome some of the disunity.
The writers have been largely using flash-forwards or flashbacks exclusively within an episode, though "The Constant" demonstrated how the format could be unusually applied. This episode takes that expectation and uses it against the audience in the best of ways. After clearly establishing that Sun's off-island story was off-island as one of the Oceanic 6, Jin's story seemed to follow in lockstep.
Of course, that wasn't the case, and because there is still some confusion regarding the classification of the Oceanic 6, the deception is maintained until the very end. At this point, one could reasonably conclude that the known Oceanic 6 are Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sayid, and Sun. One can assume that Aaron is not counted because he would have been born on the island, not mentioned in the passenger manifest. It's also reasonable to assume that Ben is still out of the public eye. With Jin no longer in the running, that leaves one slot still open.
The bulk of the episode is devoted to setting up the tragedy of the final moments. Sun's choice is not unexpected, but her doubts and questions are quite reasonable and have been a long time in coming. Sun had every reason to wonder if Juliet was being honest, and it's good to see her reacting so proactively towards her own best interests. At the same time, it was good to see Juliet make the tough decision to save Sun's life by betraying her trust.
The tear-inducing moment, of course, is the graveside "reunion" between father and daughter. While most of the episode was blatant foreshadowing (pretty much from the teaser), seeing Sun, Hurley, and little Ji Yeon standing in a cemetery was difficult. However, the most obvious explanation (that Jin died in the process of getting Sun off the island) is the least likely.
Jin's gravestone marked his death as 22 Sep 2004, which is the date of the plane crash. According to the Oceanic 6 cover story, all but eight of the passengers died; two others perished before the eventual rescue. So the implication is that Jin was eventually counted among those killed in the crash within the context of the cover story. Nothing else can be definitively inferred.
Sun's honest grief could be interpreted as a sign of Jin's actual death; he could have died between the "present" and the rescue, and this was a way to cover up the events leading to the rescue. But from the perspective of the Oceanic 6, everyone back on the island is lost. They will never see them again. So Jin could be back on the island for a very good reason, and Sun will still grieve because they will be (from her point of view) forever apart. The tragedy remains intact, but Jin would still be a viable character.
Perhaps to keep the audience believing in the seemingly mundane nature of the Jin/Sun plot thread, Sayid and Desmond's time on the boat was full of mysterious and disturbing tidbits. Michael, of course, turns out to be Ben's agent on the boat. That had to be a surprise to no one, and his story should be coming soon enough. Surprisingly, that's hardly the most pressing question, because the rest of the crew seems to be losing it.
As it turns out, the freighter's crew has been descending into madness, so much so that a suicide is considered routine. Proximity to the island has never been kind (ask Leonard from "Numbers"), but if the effect on the crew is any indication, mass exposure can be brutal. As it happens, the symptoms of exposure to strong electromagnetic fields are very similar to those exhibited by the crew. The question may not be why the crew is suffering so badly, but why the inhabitants of the island are not.
Captain Gault's story about the apparent Oceanic 815 black box is very interesting, because it definitely muddies the waters a bit. Ben's description of Widmore's activities in the previous episode seemed to fit the facts, but had to be considered through the filter of his biased perspective. Gault's explanations are equally biased, and his story seems to add fuel to the theory that Ben staged the fake crash of Oceanic 815. In fact, unless Ben's organization worked in record time, it refuels the old theory that Ben contrived the actual crash on the island in the first place.
Whatever the case, the truth is probably somewhere in between. Despite his machinations, Ben is remarkably consistent in his aspirations. If it's good for the island and its chosen people, then it's worth doing. Widmore's motivations are far less defined, and that's the source of the confusion. It's known that he has ties to Hanso, who in turn seemed to use the Dharma Initiative to his own ends (including the wacky fun of chemical weapons production at the Tempest). It's also obvious that he's sidelining Penny, who must be even more adamantly searching for Desmond after "The Constant". It's no stretch to say that Gault's explanations are questionable at best.
Sayid and Desmond clearly don't buy any of it, especially after the reaction to Regina's suicide, and that helps keep this transitional episode from losing identity within the larger framework of the season arc. While Kate is legally bound to her new life, her responsibility to Aaron makes any return to the island problematic at best. Sun is in a very similar position. This adds a new layer to any future plans to return as a group. If it were simply adults making decisions for themselves, it would be one thing; choosing for the children is quite another.
The whole episode really just seemed like a filler episode. They needed to fill in the episodes, and they didn't really have much to reveal, well they never can reveal too much I guess, otherwise it wouldn't be called, lost. The whole story with with the baby, was ok, I guess it needed to be told at some point, it just wasn't really that interesting. The flashbacks really throws off the consistency of flash-forwards in this season, and the best scenes really were on the boat. The captain's direct and reliable answers, were perfect after the friendly warning to not trust the captain. The girl who would rather die than spend one more minute on that boat, and their room, where the last guest would rather blow their brains out than continue to that boat, were all the best moments of this episode. Can't wait to learn more about the boat.
Let's start with the flashback/flash forward. The commercials for Ji Yeon even said that the last of the Oceanic 6 would be revealed. So before this episode I already knew 5/6: Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sayid, and Aaron. Now using basic math skills I knew that there was only one "survivor" left and since Sun was having her baby I knew it was her and concluded that Jin must be having a flashback. Now let's move on to Micheal er, I mean Kevin. This also would have surprised me had the creators not announced it at Comic-Con and had the commercials not mentioned "a familiar face we never thought we would see again returning". Come on! If they were really trying to surprise us, they probably shouldn't have told us these important pieces of information. The episode was not entirely unsurprising, however. When Juliet revealed to Jin that Sun had cheated on him, I almost crapped my pants! That slap was amazing! Also, I did not expect to see Jin's grave marker, although I have a sneaking suspicion he may not be dead. Not the worst episode but definitely not the best. Here's to this Thursday!
Plot Details/Objective -» This episode follows the same example of the previous one, guess who is the other female character that is not one of the strongest characters? Lost producers decided to make Sun Centric episode now, since after this, will we have the so awaited danger and deaths that we are waiting for. There was another clever move that the writers did, when they present that Captain on the freighter and now we have is side of explanations.
What I Like/Disliked -» Sun flash forward´s was boring, only the ending scenes was very good The writers tricked me. The Captain point of View was interesting to ear. Michael is back and this revelation was predictable.
Presentation -» (5/10). Don´t really know why they tried to hide with the cameras sun pregnancy, you can guess that she is out of the island because of the camera angle form the beginning.
Complication Phase -» (7/10). Was interesting when Juliet told the truth to Jin. The set of complication was interesting when the Captain of the freighter have its own explanations.
Climax -» (8/10). The writers tricked the audience with an flashback. How Jin forgive Sun is beautiful, and show how his character has evolved.
Cliffhanger/Ending -» (9/10)The Last scene of this episode is sad, but it's not conclusive.
Flash-forward's -» (10/10). People are reclaiming that the flash forward´s was boring, but when Jack has a flash forward´s in the season 3 finale, everyone forgot how boring his FF was, just because of the Ending, and Sun FF is no different, is boring, yes, but how the writers trick you and the last emotional scenes which is very sad, put this FF at the same level has Jack FF.
Time and Scenes Management -» (6/10). Explanation that you already heard before, Sun FF buying as much time as possible, the same with Jin, of course, with a nice objective, still, when you are watching you notice pretty well.
Dialogues -» (7,5/10). The dialogues were great, you don´t have too much insignificant conversations.
Action /Adventure -»None.
Drama/Emotions -» (9/10). The last FF scene is not conclusive, but it's a very sad one. Only lost for Charlie death.
Suspense/Tension -» (5/10). Couldn´t notice.
Mystery/Curiosity/Doubts/Hints -» (8/10). One more Oceanic Six revealed. Michael is back, even if this was predictable, was nice to see him back and what he have to offer will be great to see in his flashbacks. The Captain reveals enough, but there are minor hints that indicates that this is not all the truth.
Surprise/Twists -» (8/10). Nothing that you didn´t Know, only Jin faith was a nice surprise and a Sad one for Now.
Thoughts Changer -» (9/10). The writers will trick you easily.
Good episode, can be great for some people, and for other can be good only. I think that this episode is near to be considered great and that it is way I rate it 7,7.
Flash forward: We see Sun as one of the Oceanic Six and ready to give birth to her baby. We also see Jin rushing to the hospital with a stuffed Panda Bear, looking like she is going to give it to his newborn baby. We eventually find out that something is not what it seems, but that's just a tease for all of you.
Sun on the Island: After finding out that the people from the ship might not have any intentions of getting them off the island, Sun decides to switch camp. Juliet tries to persuade her otherwise, but to no avail. Juliet then does one of the most unthinkable things. Well, after that secret was revealed, I'm surprised Jin reacted so mildly to it, I suspected mad rage Jin from season 1 or from the flashbacks.
The Boat: We find out what the island is doing to these people who come near it and an old face is seen on the boat. It was mostly boring in the beginning, but once that lady with chains came out, it was just getting good.
You knew, given the way the writers on Lost think, that they were going to find a way to put a flashback and a flashforward in the same episode, which is exactly what happens here, though they don't show their hand to the end (and frankly, by the last scene, you're praying that they're not going to). And it makes a horrible kind of sense that it would involve our favorite couple, Jin and Sun. A lot has come between them over the past three seasons and in all the flashbacks of their history. But in 'Ji Yeon', they seem to finally find a way to get past it, only to end up separated by the largest divide of all. But let's take this step by step.
Sun and Jin have now realized what everyone else has--- that this freighter does not mean rescue--- and now they've decided, despite the risks, to defect to Locke's camp. (As it turns out, that decision could've gotten them killed right then, but then every day's a picnic on the island.). But Juliet, in a move that seems more desperate than calculated, breaks her oath, and reveals Sun's affair to Jin. Because Jin by necessity wears such a stoic mask, it's hard to tell just how devastating this news is to him. But we get a very good idea when he goes fishing with Bernard, who we haven't seen in a bit. Bernard then does something that no one else on this island has done--- he reveals something secret to another castaway, in this case, telling Jin about Rose's cancer and how she believes that she's cured. He then says the reason they stayed with Jack was because he was a murderer, and that it would be bad karma for them to stay. It's hard to know how much Jin understands, but we know from his own words (way back in 'Exodus') that he believes being on this island is his punishment for his cruel behavior while working for Mr. Paik.
So Jin does one of the most beautiful things of all the characters on the series--- he forgives Sun for her affair. Hell, he even tries to wear some of the guilt as his own, because he knows what a horrible man he became. (Of course, he doesn't know why he ended up working for Mr. Paik, but that's beside the point). So he tells Sun that they will try to find a way off this island, and they will escape.
Now admittedly, there've been signs that the flashes involving Jin and Sun were of different times--- Jin had a monster of a cell phone in his flashes, Sun's refusal to let the doctor remove her wedding the ring, the way the doctors seemed to know by their celebrity status that Jin was dead--- but even knowing all that (or, for that matter, knowing what's going to happen in Season 5) doesn't mean that the final scene is any less gutwrenching. Seeing Sun reduced to her more devastated ,ode, even as she holds Jin's child, is one that is heartbreaking. What makes it even sadder is that after the birth of her child, the gentle and compassionate Sun we've come to know and love, will all but disappear. In her place will come someone crueler and colder, someone--- well, let's be honest--- is a lot like her father Right now, we're not sure why, but there's got to be a reason that Hurley was the only member of the Oceanic 6 to come see her after Ji Yeon's birth (and why he was so glad not to see any of his friends). What we're not sure of is when and how Jin died, and if the Oceanic 6 are lying about his dying in the crash.
Speaking of which, we now know who they are---- Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sayid, Sun, and Aaron. The problem is this leaving a gap in Jack's story big enough to fly a plane through when he said at Kate's trial that only eight people survived the crash. How does that make Aaron--- who must have been born before the survivors were rescued--- one of the people who survived. Yes, they say Kate managed to cut him off at the trial, but I'm not entirely sold on that either. This may be a continuity error that never gets explained.
Meanwhile, on the freighter, Sayid and Desmond are learning that things are actually a lot worse than they thought. They meet the captain of the boat, who seems particular nasty (but then, maybe he's just a little concerned about how the members of his crew are dying right and left), and who seems more than willing to tell them what they want to know. He reveals that this is Charles Widmore's ship (I don't know how Desmond managed to maintain even a moderate level of calm when he learned this) and that the wreckage of flight 815 was found on the ocean floor. Then he reveals that they found 324 dead bodies on the freighter, and that they believe the man responsible is Ben. Unfortunately, all of this is thrown into disbelief when they received a note that says "Don't believe the captain." So now Widmore is saying Ben's responsible, and Ben is blaming Widmore (though they don't know it yet) Both of these men already seem like monsters, but which ones do we believe?
Oh, and we finally find out who Ben's man on the boat, though honestly, we should've figured it out a lot sooner. Considering that Harold Perrineau has been listed as a cast member for the last six episodes, but we haven't seen hide nor hair of him--- even in the flashforwards. So when the doc calls for Kevin Johnson, and we finally see that this is in fact Michael, it's probably the biggest anticlimax this series will ever produce. What makes it even harder to believe is why Michael--- who sold his soul to get off the island--- would be willing to do anything to get back here. I will say this, though: From what we see of Michael's face, he looks like he hasn't gotten a decent night's sleep in a very long time.
Well, we're getting answers but they're not very neat ones. But that we can live without for now. What is more pertinent is that it appears that death is going to separate our favorite couple on the island. And that even that might not be enough to keep them apart.
My score: 8
At first I thought: what a waste of a Sun/Jin flashforward. Showing Jin running through the town with a stupid panda(twice...) and Sun struggling with baby birth. Nothing exciting here.
Nothing exciting? Make sure you don't miss the last 10 minutes. The Jin parts were FLASHBACKS!!! I didn't see that twist coming. The ending was incredibly emotional and well done. I can't believe how the writers tricked me once again. Masterful... Sun grieving over Jin's grave with Ji Yeon(her baby) and Hurley... don't tell me that wasn't one of the most powerful and meaningful scenes of Lost to date. Just shows how much this show evolved during the 3 seasons. The island story - Sun's was, as expected somewhat slow and uninteresting.I thought her plan to go to Locke's camp was doomed from start, so it wasn't suspensful at all. However I liked when Juliet spilled the beans about Jae Lee to Jin only to make him force Sun to stay.
Jin was incredibly awesome this episode. I really love how his character was developed, and how warm he is now learning english, treating his wife with proper respect. What made the island story what it is is the boat storyline. What exactly is going on? The boat staff is commiting suicide one by one. Creepy, the writers sure have alot of 'splaining to do!
And, the spy is revealed. Kevin Johnson aka Michael. No big surprises here, but it was done much better than I thought it'd be done. Overall, if the Michael twist wasn't so obvious, and Sun's island plot wasn't as predictable, this would've been easily a 10. This way, "only" a 8.
It's all about Jin and Sun who've been pretty minor since the end of Season 3. Sun is told by Juliet that she has to get off the island or she dies but when Sun refuses to listen she takes drastic measures. We flash to Desmond and Sayid on the boat where they meet the Captain but are told by Ben's spy who turns out to be Michael, not to trust him. In the future we see Sun give birth to little Ji Yeon and attend Jin's grave while in the past we see Jin buying a toy Panda for the Chinese Ambassador. This episode is certainly involving with the sense that many answers and revelations are on the way but the ending is a real letdown as every flash thing involving Jin proving to be a massive deception and Sun....well it's just misleading. Any scene with Desmond and Sayid on the boat however are excellent with the meeting of the Captain played by Grant Bowler and the return of Michael or Kevin Johnson but sadly there isn't many scenes to see. Good performances all - around but Daniel Dae Kim as Jin and Yunjin Kim as Sun are the best with genuine and quite heart - breaking performances. On the boat; Grant Bowler was just a little too subdued as the Captain but the rest of the crew were suitably ominous. What this episode lacks in comedy it makes up for in suspense with the freighter proving very creepy but there's something almost contrived about how it's layed out in just a way to get shivers down you spine. The music is basically a stylized version of the "da duh da duh da duh da duh da duh da duh daduhdaduhdaduhdadadaaaaaaaa" from Jaws but is very effective. All in all Ji Yeon is a misleading but largely very entertaining installment of Lost but the way they almost toy with the audience is very cruel, looking forward to the next one.
While the first five episodes were generally well received, the past two have had more problems. Last episode gave us insights that didn't need to be there. This episode had some more controversial elements that have polarized the fandom. There was the return of Michael, a reveal that has been spoiled so many times that only someone who didn't follow news or know who the actors were could be surprised. Then there was the gimmick of having us believe on first viewing that Jin's flashback was a flash forward. Not knowing either would certainly enhance the enjoyment of this episode.
Jin's subplot actually being a flashback left some viewers cheated. A valid criticism is that its screen time, however many minutes, doesn't advance the narrative so much as sets up the twist. I saw it coming from about 20 minutes into the episode. The hints are there, from the bad flashback hair, the bulky cell phone and that no one recognized Jin, despite the fact that he should be a major celebrity. If you don't see this coming, the episode should work a lot more. Such a criticism could be lobbed at Jack's flash-forwards in "Through the Looking Glass", but that episode provided the foundation for the Oceanic Six storyline that's being explored this season.
Although last week's events were a pile of contrivance, they do help motivate this episode. While Daniel obviously wants to help, the freighties objective wasn't rescuing the castaways. Now their covert activities at The Tempest, while sparing most of the people on the island, are coming back to haunt them. Sun's choice to head to Locke's camp makes sense, and it wouldn't be hard to conceive of others leaving the camp when word gets out that the freighties have some secrets.
Juliet's attempt to keep Sun on the beach, breaking doctor-patient confidentiality by telling Jin about the affair, could've gone soapy like some of the elements from his last episode, but it's played out a lot better. Losing nine women due to pregnancy took a huge toll on her and she didn't want Sun to doom herself to that fate by leaving the main camp.
Jin's reaction shows how far he's come as a character. Of course he's going to be upset, but his conversation with Bernard, however limited Jin's side was, somehow convinces him to make it work (if Bernard and Rose's relationship can survive cancer, Jin and Sun's could survive and affair). The whole episode is a showcase for how he's changed. His English has come far enough for him to carry conversations and understand those with him. The most important improvement was his character. Should he have known that Sun cheated while an enforcer, he probably would've killed Jae. Now, he brings her dinner and forgives her and understands why she did it.
Previously it was believed that only Minkowski was the only one sick on the freighter, but this episode shows that problems among the ship's crew ran deeper. Regina, no sooner do we meet her does she throw herself overboard (hopefully we'll see more Zoë Bell in flashbacks because that'd be a waste of a Grindhouse mini reunion between her, Fahey and Andrews). Then there's the blood stain on the wall of Sayid and Desmond's new quarters, clearly the result of a self inflicted gunshot wound. Whoever gave Sayid and Desmond the note and left the sick bay door open, almost certainly Michael, is trying to help them navigate the freighter so they don't wind up like Regina or Minkowski.
Of course the biggest "surprise" of this episode was ruined sometime last summer when they revealed Michael would be back. It didn't make it easier when they had Harold Perrineau's name in the credits despite the fact that he hasn't appeared in a frame all season. This is where the super aware internet following can work against "Lost", as well as other shows. There was no way to keep Michael's return a secret from last summer to now because of the spread of information on the internet. Unfortunately, knowing he'll be back blows the reveal in this episode. If they were to edit out his name from the credits, his return could've been somewhat shocking rather than inevitable to those other than the oblivious viewer. However, the tease of him walking to Sayid and Desmond's new room is not deliberately evasive, which would've further annoyed those who saw it coming.
With Michael's return come several questions. How did he go from being shipped off the island to working on the freighter's crew? Did they just pick him out of the water and give him a job? Why did he use the alias Kevin Johnson? Where is Walt? Michael's return, in addition to continuing his still incomplete story, also seeks to illuminate the freighties' mission and possibly the conditions that lead to the "cabin fever".
An odd thing was the clanging of the metal that Sayid thought was coming from a person rather than a mechanical error. This is likely two things: either it's a person who has lost their mind and is hitting something for no good reason or Michael, possibly Walt, trying to give Sayid and Desmond a message, maybe in morse code. Michael may be more likely to deliver messages personally, but Walt can't.
Captain Gault is an intriguing new element to the freighter saga. Although he is an intimidating character, his crew acting like they're in a malevolent dictatorship where one false move could lead to grave consequences, he is forthcoming with information as Sayid notes. It'd be like if Ben revealed who he was in great detail when Sayid first encountered him in the net. Perhaps this forthcoming persona is all part of a con to get Sayid and Desmond on his side, but considering their warnings, there is a bit of skepticism.
Gault accuses Ben of coming up with 324 bodies to match those of Oceanic 815. This may be the source of his $3.2 million Miles is trying to extort out of him and the significance of that amount. At $10,000 a body, it comes to $3.24 million, rounded down to 3.2 possibly to mislead us. Last season showed us The Others have a lot of resources off island that could stage a plane crash, so it isn't hard for them to put this together even when they only have a few hours to do it. However, considering both Ben's and Gault's stories are marred by our natural distrust in them, neither side may true, despite that neither side contradicts the other yet.
Despite the promise that it would be clear who the Oceanic Six are by the end of the episode, the episode explains only to five. So if it is true, the likeliest candidate of the two other island characters we've seen off is Aaron. The big problem with that is that Jack's testimony in "Eggtown" says that eight people survived the initial crash and two perished before they could be rescued, and Aaron obviously was in Claire's womb the day of the crash. However, considering their cover story deviates entirely from what really happened, it wouldn't be hard for Aaron be already born in their story.
It's odd that only Hurley would make the trip to see Ji Yeon, as the six all have golden passes to fly anywhere free (the exception would be Kate, who at this point in the timeline would be on trial and kept in custody as a flight risk). However, it points to the bigger problem the Oceanic Six is dealing with and will leave Hurley and Jack succumbing hard to the guilt. Bringing them all together would just remind each other of whatever horrible thing they did that got them off the island. This certainly could be the major problem facing Jack in his flash forward.
Many are ready to call Jin a goner because of the emotionally charged farewell at the end of the episode (including the touching "Life and Death" theme) in addition to Jin seemingly completing his redemptive arc. If he turned out OK, it might cheapen this episode's ending. However, Sun's sadness over not having Jin there could be simply because he was left behind on the island which, judging by Jack's desperate attempts to get back in the finale seems almost impossible to relocate. Sun's character flaw is her ability to lie to protect herself, so she might've lied and cheated her way into one of the Oceanic Six's slots in a desperate attempt to save herself from what kills pregnant women on the island. Jin's absence hits her hard when he's not by her side when it happens, knowing he'd be there giant stuffed panda or not. Also, none of her monologue by the grave is explicit enough to imply anything other than he isn't there. If anything, I just want to avoid another discussion of how anyone who gets a DWI on "Lost" gets killed off shortly afterward.
Overall this is a good episode marred by elements it couldn't control. At its heart, this transitional episode does what it's supposed to do. By reintroducing Michael and removing the safety net for Jin, the stakes are being raised ever higher. One can hope the following six episodes can deliver on the promises of the first half.
Everybody knew about Michael (now Kevin) on the boat, so it wasn't surprising at all to see him. In spite of this, the moment in which Kevin introduces himself has been seen from the authors as the most important scene of the episode. And maybe that's why Jin and Sun's story is even boring sometimes, simply because it wasn't the real surprise. But it comes out that their story has been really sweet, and sad. Sun survives (so she left the island before it was to late for her baby) and the faithful Jin can not even take a look at his beautiful daughter Ji Yeon. Like a love novel, sometimes foreseeable (it was easy to understand that there were a flashback of Jin and a flashforward of Sun), but definitely adorable.
I would say it's been a moment of peace before the increbible episodes we still have to watch.
I was a little blindsided by the quasi-resolution to the Sun/Jin story. I realize there are "more stories to tell" even in the context of their relationship. But the pronouncement that Jin is yet another one of the 815 survivors whose chance at redemption is ultimately lost is a bit dour. You can argue that Jin was redeemed and then he died. But that isn't how the redemption story ends. At least it is not how it should end. This is where I use the term "unecessarily sad." This describes moments in literature, movies, television, etc. where the story could have ended just fine but then quickly takes a tragic turn and then immediately resolves. "Message in a Bottle" is an example of this. Jack Arnold in the series finale of "The Wonder Years" is another. But maybe Jin's death is only so affecting because of the character work that was done right under our noses. The Jin/Sun/(Michael/Jae Lee) triangle was drug out from "...in translation" up until this epsiode. It felt like the audience was being jerked around with "The Whole Truth" not giving us the truth and then this seasons "you mean our baby?" seemingly calling "DOC" into question. But maybe this was all a medium to paint the picture of a dynamic and ultimately redeemed Jin. His comments in Sun's tent near the end of this episode all but spell that out for us. (given the subtitles I guess they did literally spell it out for us). Jin stated that he is not the same man that Sun cheated on. He is not the same man that was going to kill a cab driver and then a stuff panda bear salesman over a "job." He is not the same man who hides his affections from Sun. "Where Sun goes, I go." From day one, this has really been the case with Jin - much to his undoing. But ultimately, this is also what redeems him on the island. It seemed that this had been accomplished in "Exodus" or maybe even as late as "Collision" and "What Kate Did." But I'm not sure Jin could have forgiven Sun at that time. By now he can. He is now at the stage of redemption Boone was after "Hearts and Minds." Of course this may also mean his doom is at hand. Sayid and Desmond's meeting with the captain begs one question: Why not trust the captain? Everything he said seemed legitimate. As Sayid noticed, he seemed forthcoming. So was Michael's note an attempt to manipulate Sayid and Desmond as per Ben's orders? If not pursuant to Ben's orders, then at least to his motivations? Michael was more interesting when he was wrongly hated by Jin than when he became the assassin blindly devoted to Walt. It is interesting that Michael is re-introduced in a story centered around Sun and Jin. Does this foreshadow Jin's ultimate fate? Not sure but I would like to think the two stories are connected. This season has been exceptional at producing stand alone stories and yet moving the overall story arc along at a rapid pace.
First of all, I knew Michael was on the boat!!! And I think he is Ben's man! Ben probably sent him directly to the boat in the end of season 2! The question on my mind is if Walt is on the island! Did Locke have an alucination or was Walt really there?
I'm sad Jin is dead. He is/was a good guy! And in no moment I thought he was going to see his daughter be born....He was much younger on the flash back, and his cell phone was very big!!
The Oceanic Six...curious story...so, Ben implanted a fake airplane under the sea with 324 bodies (23 and 4, two numbers!!)...So far we know that Sayid, Hurley, Jack, Kate and Sun are out...Does Aaron join the count? If yes, we know all 6, but i guess he is out of it!
Well just got done watching Lost. I must say that is one of the weakest episodes of the new season so far. Although there was a clever thing done by the writers by trying to make the viewers second guess the whole Jin/Sun flashback and flash forward thing, there just wasn't enough for this episode to get a higher rating. The one thing that this episode did have going for it was everything that happened on the boat. That seemed to be the strongest thing that this episode had going for it. Also there was no way you couldn't have known that the spy was Micheal, there was a lot of key things from this season that gave it away. But anyway just blah episode of Lost hopefully next weeks will be better.
This was another great episode that left you hanging and wanting more. I want all the answers to all the questions I have. Like for instance....Micheal????? I had a feeling that we would be seeing him again but as the spy....now that is good! What about Jin I was like wtf when they were showing her having the baby and calling for Jin and how he was searching for a panda. Then it turns out that he is dead. How did he die? Oh and I was mad when Juliet told Jin about Sun's affair. I know she was just trying to help but WOW. I didn't think she would have gone that far to keep her there. Those 300 some bodies that were found at the bottom of the ocean..of course it was Ben I bet he used the bodies of those he killed on the island. I know there is a lot more in store for us Lost fans I can't wait but I know that when we do get all the answers Lost will be no more.....or will it.
Okay… so this is probably going to seem like a random stream of consciousness, but I wrote it as things happened in the episode so it's mostly a list of questions the episode raised and responses to them. But it should pretty much summarize the episode!
A girl is guarding Sayid and Desmond's room, but for some reason her book was upside down. Obviously she wasn't doing what she was supposed to be doing. Sun is off the island!!!! It's the future and she's having pregnancy problems?? Jin is also off the island. He's running around trying to buy a stuffed panda. Back on the island Kate tells Jin and Sun about the "gas factory" where Charlotte and Daniel ran off to. She scares them by saying "they talked about a lot of things and none of them involved rescuing us" after Sun asks if they are there to rescue them. Back on the freighter, Sayid and Desmond get a note under the door. Is it from the spy on the boat? Dunno. But it says "DON'T TRUST THE CAPTAIN." Back on the island again, Sun asks Daniel if they are there to rescue them, but he says he doesn't know because it isn't his call. Uh oh! And here's sort of a side note, but isn't Jin's "broken" English way too good?? He knows the most random words and can speak way too fluently for someone who is just learning English. Either he's a really bad actor, the lines are really bad, or there is something about Jin that they aren't telling us, like he already spoke English or something. Anyways… now Sun and Jin have decided to go back to Lock's camp. Won't Sun die?? Why is Kate helping them? Bernard says Rose was dying before they got on the island, but wasn't dying now because of island. She want to go back home anyway. On the freighter, a girl jumped off ship with chains and kills herself. The captain tells Desmond and Sayid that Mr. Widmore (sp?) is owner of boat. Yay! Desmond finally finds out! The captain shows Sayid and Desmond the black box from flight 815 that was found with plane and all 300-some dead passengers. He talks about what a huge effort someone went through to fake the crash. Where does one come across 300-some dead bodies?? That's why they're there for Ben. Off the island and in the future, Sun has her baby as she calls out for Jin. On the freighter they reveal MICHEAL!!!! Aka Johnson?? But I feel like I already knew who it was going to be, so whatever. On the island, Jin forgives Sun. Will they go to Locke's camp? No. They need to get off the island because the people have a helicopter and they need to get off the island to save their baby. Was Jin in the past or the future? Weird!?! And where's Jin because he isn't in the hospital with Jin. Hurley shows up at Sun's apartment, but nobody else is coming. Hurley and Sun go to the cemetery to visit Jin's grave. He's dead :( Sort of a surprise, but at the same time it was predictable. Wait… I thought they were going to reveal the oceanic six? Does that mean that Jin died after he came back or are they not counting him as one of the oceanic six? Aw! She gave him the baby's name that he chose.
Okay, so it was a pretty good episode. Not the best, but still pretty good. A little too predictable and stuff, but raises even more questions about stuff, which is always good because it's fun to guess! Yay! I can't wait til next week's episode. It looks like it's going to be really good! Once again, I'm really sorry about the randomness of this review!
Firstly I just want to say that I had this episode figured out before it even aired! This is both a testament to my genius and that I'm a huge geek! Before the season started we were told that one of the original main characters would die within the first eight episodes and I heard a rumour that this one would have more info on the Oceanic Six. I didn't know for a fact that Jin would die, but I thought it was a fair guess and so how could he have a flashforward? Well I guessed that it'd be a shared episode and Jin's side would be a flashback and Sun's a flashforward. It would be done so that you'd think Jin's side was happening at the same time as Sun's in an attempt to trick you into thinking he was still alive. Of course this was what happened and it was done brilliantly!
Although the episode had me shouting "You're not fooling me!" at my screen for most of it, it was superbly done. Jin's side was just to set up the end reveal but it still had some great stuff. Him losing the Panda bear was comedic genius! There could be more read into the unfortunate events but I think it was pretty simple. Either it was some bad acting form the extras and a bit of poor writing, or more likely a rival company to Paik's that also wanted to do business with the Chinese and were trying to sabotage Jin's efforts. Either way it was pretty insubstantial as the main story was Sun's.
Well she's gotten off of the island and had her baby successfully. A happy ending then complete with Hurley turning up in a nice suit. Because of the birth this episode can easily be tracked time-wise and is therefore clearly before the Hurley saw Charlie and stared going a bit bonkers again. But why did Hurley not want to see anyone else? Interesting but that doesn't affect this episode really. A lot of these reviews tend to digress into theories and guesswork so from here on it's about the episode's quality.
I was a bit annoyed that we didn't get more of Locke's camp and in particular there reactions to Ben being a member of their society instead of a prisoner. But what we did get instead was some great stuff on the freighter. Apparently loads of folk are topping themselves on the ship which is very strange but was done very effectively. The woman reading her book upside down showed there was something wrong which culminated in her drowning herself. We got some more answers too about the fake plane, but nothing we didn't already know. We got confirmation (pretty much) that it was Ben who was behind it, but I think that was common knowledge anyway as who else would have. That they've addressed where he could've got three hundred odd dead folk was good as that was what I'd been wondering. Of course the huge reveal was another one that had been guessed, but it was still awesome! Michael finally makes his first appearance since the season two finale, despite having been credited for the last six episodes, and just thinking about it know is giving me Goosebumps. For such a short moment it was fantastic. There's a question about Desmond's reaction, which I couldn't quite read because I don't know if he recognised him. The only time they could've met was in the season two finale, but he was p*ssed then and at best would've seen Michael from across the beach with a different haircut and beard. Hopefully that'll be cleared up next week, but Sayid's reaction was perfectly played by both actors. Sayid was clearly surprised at seeing Michael, as well as not too happy it would seem. However he realised that it was probably best to not blow his cover, but if that wasn't the coldest handshake of all time I don't know what was! Absolutely awesome!
Back on the beach Jin found out about Sun's affair and was understandably heartbroken. But a fantastic scene with Bernard got his priorities in order and he found it within himself to forgive her. I'm glad this was resolved so quickly, as dragging it out would've been a waste of screentime for a show that has made sure to use as much as they can this season with sheer brilliance. It's also a testament to the writers and actors that they could reconcile so quickly and believably. Speaking of acting I can't imagine it's easy for Daniel Dae Kim to pretend he's learning English when he's fluent, but he does it fantastically. Also some of his interactions with the rest of the cast are excellent. I loved his short scene with Jack and the reference to Sawyer's English lessons from "Tricia Tanaka is Dead" was great too.
Yet another incredibly strong episode from a season that keeps getting better. The best thing about it is that it's so good that even if you figure something out it can still hit home thanks to great acting, writing and direction. This was a very clever episode which leaves one major mystery as to Jin's fate. The tombstone said he dies on September 22nd 2004 (the day of the crash) so he must die on the island at some point. From here on he's got a Charlie-esc death clock hanging over him and let's just hope the character gets the send off he deserves.
Juliet is forced to reveal some startling news to Jin when Sun threatens to move to Locke's camp. Meanwhile, Sayid and Desmond begin to get an idea of the freighter's crew when they meet the ship's captain. Bla Bla Bla Bla! Who cares Michael is back?
This episode was kinda boring to me until the end. And I can't say boring about alot of Lost episodes but if I had to pick one then this one is it. And is it just me or is Juliet as boring as it gets? Her character has no personality whatsoever and sometimes she scares the crap out of me when she gives us that blank stare. There is not alot to complain about when it comes to Lost. Now Michael is back and you know Sawyer, Kate and Jack want a piece of his hyde. But where is Walt? Can't wait til next week.
Summary: Sun wants to leave Jack's camp because she belives the frighters are not good people. This forces Juliet to tell Jin about Sun's affair and Jin gets mad. In the end, Jin and Sun reconcile. Meanwhile, onboard the freighter Sayid and Desmond witness a suicide, meet the Captain, and Kevin Johnson. In the flashbacks (and flashforwards) Sun is in labor, and vists Jin's grave, while in flashbacks Jin gives a random guy a panda.
Pros: Some people may say that the Jin/Sun flashes were just lazy but I thought that they were very well done. For once I liked a Jin/Sun episode. The boat scenes reveal a lot, and Sun at Jin's grave (almost) made me shed a tear.
Cons: Funny as they were, Jin's flashes had nothing to do with the plot. Also they could have saved Michael for the next episode, or at least give him a better returning scene. Overall: Another great addition to Season 4.
Juliet tells Jin that Sun had an affair, Jin gets upset, then forgives Sun. Sayid and Desmond meet the captain, learn whose boat it is, and see Michael. In the future Sun has a baby. In the end Sun is crying with Hurley at Jin's grave.
This episode was nothing short of outstanding. It took a while to get some action going, but mid way through the episode I couldn't look away. Sun and Jin plan to go to Locke's Camp in fear of the freighters people, but Juliet advises strongly not to go. In a last attempt to get them to stay she tells Jin about Suns affair. The slap by Sun was one I wasn't expecting to see, and it was executed perfectly. Jin and Bernard's conversation on the boat was really meaningful, and Jin forgiving Sun shows how much he's changed. In the flash forward Sun has the baby and screamed for Jin. The other flash (which turned out to be in the past) was Jin attempting to get a Panda for someone in the maternity ward. I loved the mixing of the past, present, and future. It was well written and well acted. At the end Sun and Hurley (who seemed pleased no one else was with Sun) go to Jin's grave to show him the baby. It was a great performance by Sun, and only adds to the mystery of what happens with the oceanic 6. The freighter action was nothing special, and is the reason this episode wasn't a 10. Michael obviously was the spy, and the attempted shock failed. Overall the episode was very exciting and was really entertaining.
i knew they were going to kill jin when the actor was aressted on a dui charge last year so no surprise there. you could tell jin's was a flashback because of his anger, the large cellphone & getting a panda (he's korean, not chinese). it was well done & i can understand how she wouldn't trust juliet after what she heard from kate & daniel but i was not expecting juliet to betray her trust that way to get them to stay!! that was a shock but at least it was done to protect the baby. juliet can not handle losing mothers to the island & i can see how she would do anything to save sun. having bernard show up & remind him how he was a bad husband before the island & how it was his fault that she cheated was another stroke of brilliance by the writers. having her talk to the tombstone was another emotional scene & was quite sad. i was excited to see zoe bell from deathproof on the show but then she killed herself! i guess jumping off a freighter with chains wrapped around yourself is a dangerous stunt but it was odd how none of the crew members tried to help. sayid is getting caught up in the mystery so it ties into his spoilfoward but desmond should really be asking about getting saved & seeing penny again.
I'm going to break my review down into the three main parts of the episode. The beach scenes, The boat scenes, and the fake out in the flashes.
The beach scenes revolved mainly around Jin, Sun, Kate, Juliet, and Benard. Sun wants to leave and go to Locke's camp, but doesn't seem to want to listen to reason. I do suppose that she has a point - she doesn't trust Daniel Faraday or Charlotte Lewis being around the camp. It just felt very - rushed. She likely should have guessed that Lewis and Faraday weren't good when Jack, Kate, and Juliet had to run after them. That was another thing about the island scenes that wasn't my preference - Kate, Juliet, Faraday, Jack, and Lewis were all back from "The Tempest" at the beginning of the episode. I suppose everything about the station was somewhat ansered, but at the end of "The Other Woman" they are all going back inside for further explaination of the station and at the beginning of this one they are all back. The camps being split really hurt this part of the storytelling I think. They had really no choice but to bring them all back because who else is around camp for drama? Jin / Sun / Benard / Rose? That's it. Had Claire, Hurley, and Sawyer been at the camp I think the other group could have stayed at the Tempest. The rest of the island scenes just felt really slow, like nothing was going on. In earlier episodes I felt this way too - but in The Economist we were getting to know Miles along the way, In Eggtown we got some Sawyer/Kate action. This episodes island scenes were just kind of in a standstill. Jin and Benards conversation on the boat, while it felt sincere, just seemed like it was put there simply to hold up a few minutes of the show.
The boat scenes were very dark and chilling, as they tend to be. Michael (Kevin Johnson) was a very easily foreseen twist coming for those of us who listened to the ComicCon podcast a while back, but the fact they didn't make the handshake the end of the episode was good job on their part. I also liked seeing Kevin Johnson in the scene where Regina jumps off the boat - just kind of off to the side. Seems Michael is just sabotaging just about everything. It looks like Keamy and Frank Lipidus bounced onto the Helicopter and left. I really liked Keamys character and hope that he is going to the island. I think his big, tough guy attitude could really get some interesting character interactions with Sawyer / Locke / Jack. Regina killing herself just has me all messed up. Something is wrong with the people on the boat - that's a fact. Regina kills herself. Minkowski kills himself. Not sure I like the fact all these people are dying before we even get to know them - but hey, flashbacks are there for a reason, right?
The fake out with the backs / forwards wasn't worth it. It got me, don't get me wrong, but I just didn't see the point. Jins flashback was there for the purpose to ONLY trick the viewers. It didn't give anything to his character at all, it was put there with its only purpose being to fool us and nothing more. Suns part of her flash was pretty boring right up until the final scene with Hurley at the gravesite. If Jin is dead or not should be a hot topic in the online community for the next couple of weeks. Overall, the island scenes were average. Dialouge very shaky at times and Jin is almost speaking perfect english. I know they have time - but come on. He speaks really well seemingly out of nowhere. The boat scenes were solid, and the flash trick just wasn't worth the time that went into making them. This is the weakest episode of the season for me.
The Beginning of the End - 9.7
Confirmed Dead - 9.5
The Economist - 9.6
Eggtown - 9.2
The Constant - 10+
The Other Woman - 9.3
Ji Yeon - 8.9
Season Average - 9.46 (Beating out my current #1, season five of 24, by .01)
An episode like this reminds me why I fell in love with Lost in the first place. While I love the mysteries of the island, and am as anxious as anyone to know more, it was ultimately the characters that hooked me. It's been a long time that I've seen a show with such 3-dimensional, interesting, complex, evolving, mysterious characters as I've seen on Lost.
I've always liked the Sun/Jin storyline, the whole evolution of it. From Jin being a domineering control freak, to learning why he's like. From him being mad at Sun, first for hiding that she knew English, to having an affair. It seems his love for her is undying.
Tonight we got a whole new twist on their relationship. If that's what you want to call it. It seems, especially after this episode, that relationships break down after leaving the island. I don't know if it's one of the 'effects' of leaving the island, but I could see it being part of the lies the survivors have to tell afterwards. But I need to know... does Sun really think Jin is dead? Or is that another lie she needs to keep up?
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