Marvel's Avengers Assemble Forums

Sunday 11:00 AM on Disney XDIn Season

Marvel One Shot mini movies

  • Avatar of MajLorne

    MajLorne

    [1]Feb 13, 2014
    • member since: 01/31/08
    • level: 21
    • rank: Snagglepuss
    • posts: 3,464

    Since this is the only place i can think of to post this....
    Well if anyone was as disappointed in the Ironman 3 movie reveal that the mandarin was a fake and Killian was using a puppet to cover up his mistakes. Well the mini movie paired up with Thor 2 (blueray, dunno about dvd) is going to focus on Trevor, the actor. And well it could set up events for a 4th ironman film that will make the comicbook fans happy.



    ***SPOILER***



    I also hope they eventually put all these mini clips together as a film. I don't really want to buy the other movies again just to see maybe 10-20min worth each.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of RaizenYusuke

    RaizenYusuke

    [2]Mar 8, 2014
    • member since: 06/15/05
    • level: 28
    • rank: Disco Stu
    • posts: 8,074

    I heard about months ago and finally saw it. I actually did hope they would do something like that, but felt it would have been better if they that had been after credits scene at the end of Iron Man 3.



    ***SPOILER***



    All in all seems like Iron Man 3 blew up or wasted two plots, A.I.M. gone already and nowhere near the level of the comic counterpart as a science cell terrorists and the Mandarin, who has ties to alien technology that could have easily been tied into the Infinity Gems/Thanos plot they're building up.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of MajLorne

    MajLorne

    [3]Mar 8, 2014
    • member since: 01/31/08
    • level: 21
    • rank: Snagglepuss
    • posts: 3,464
    imo, despite the cool armors fighting sequence at the end, IM3 is my least favorite of the trilogy. Even the How it should've ended parody showed how they could've avoided the whole tony in middle US if he activated his armors from the vault as soon as the missiles hit. Where were they in the middle of the film? too convenient with how at the end then all the armors were deployed. I also hated that tony self destructed all the armors at the end. At least keep them around given that the stuff from the Avengers means there's a greater need for iron man.


    ***SPOILER***
    I don't think those plots can't be reused, but if say this AIM in IM3 was a stepping stone, then maybe we can see the true AIM for the future. I assume there's going to be 3 Avengers movies, so IM4 would probably kick off after Avengers 2 is over. I also hope we get a 2nd Incredible hulk film with the leader. I think they finally got the hulk correctly with Ruffalo staring.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of RaizenYusuke

    RaizenYusuke

    [4]Mar 10, 2014
    • member since: 06/15/05
    • level: 28
    • rank: Disco Stu
    • posts: 8,074

    I can re-watch Iron Man 3 and overall I enjoyed watching it, but I was still disappointed by it as well. Ultimately I felt it was the weakest of the trilogy, while most people would say 2 is. I liked all 3 though. It's not the Batman and Robin level where it was so bad I can't watch it again.


    Overall I felt the movie was badly planned out. The PTSD angle wasn't really solved or resolved. It was just dropped in a bad way. The kid just told him to build something, Tony did and got over it. That was a weak resolve for something that was building up the entire movie and affected every aspect of Stark in that movie. It was why he stopped sleeping, why he slapped together inferior armors without testing them (which why they were less effective than the first 7), it was why Tony made some very dumb movies, like using 42 over Mark 7 when he was expecting an attack. It turned a serious problem that into a joke. I respect their attempt to strip Tony of his toys and show us and him that he is Iron Man regardless of the suit, it wasn't their best work. Mark 42 was the butt monkey movie, which was mixed for me. It was funny at first, but later toward the end of movie it got annoying.


    The Mandarin twist itself wasn't bad to me. The problem was that making Killian the Mandarin and main villain, because the character was generic and shallow for Iron Man's greatest enemy. Part of their goal was to remake the character they could have given more depth and interesting characteristics. He wanted revenge on Tony for blowing him off. He was a less sympathetic version of Vanko with even less compelling reason to hate Tony. They wasted interesting elements of the Mandarin to make Killian a guy out for revenge. In the comics Mandarin found his rings in an alien space ship and harnessed their power. If the story was modified that the Mandarin found a space ship and reversed engineered it into making his rings he would be a evil counterpart to Tony, since in MCU the Stark's arc reactor is based off the Cube. Mandarin could have rings based of alien tech as well and make him a scientific genius to rival Tony. The Mandarin could have been the Dr. Doom of MCU, since they can't use Doom themselves.


    I also felt they tried to do too much. AIM and Mandarin plots could have each been their own movies instead of trying to fit them into one. Some developments could have been better explained. I've seen the movie 3 times now and the ending with Tony getting operation confuses me. I can't tell if he used extremis to get the job done or not. That would make the most sense, because if Tony could just get an operation any time since he came back from the middle east in Iron Man 1 that's stupid, especially since it was killing him in 2.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of MajLorne

    MajLorne

    [5]Mar 10, 2014
    • member since: 01/31/08
    • level: 21
    • rank: Snagglepuss
    • posts: 3,464
    lol, true about the Batman and Robin point (a movie i'd never want to see again). I mean sure I will slam IM3, but will still watch it if it airs on a slow day again, but I would still hold IM2 a little over IM3 because I liked the villain more in that one and he went toe to toe with IM and didn't look ridiculous as some molting lava guy.

    Yup, the ptsd thing was dropped in out of nowhere as if 'oh let's add some conflict'. And by the end it's like poof, resolved. Sure maybe having a near death experience can change a guy, but he was treated worse in IM1 with the first accident with the shards in his chest. Hem, good point about the armors. Most of them were variations of another and perhaps unproven. I will admit at first piloting the armors remotely was cool, but it cheapens the whole point of tony being ironman. Jarvis as great as it was, is not ironman. Obviously besides to market the toys, the other armors were pointless and they could've introduced the big one as the hulk buster armor against a big foe, but sadly it was just some jackup thing for a few seconds.

    Yup, killian being left alone on a roof and then turning bad like some brat was lame. I can understand he would try to cover up his mistakes with the exploding soldiers, but seriously, he turns evil because Tony ditched him? Yup, that Mandarin idea would've been awesome and i still hold out hope they might use it for the 4th IM movie.
    Oh yeah, i hate that fox owns xmen and FF and sony with Spiderman. They could have such awesome crossovers if they could set aside their stupid rivalry. I would hope they can sneak in a line in avengers 2 about quicksilver and scarlet witch being magneto's kids, or that they are mutants.

    Yup, I wished it was Aim in the conventional sense with actual weapons than what IM3 had. They wanted to push the mandarin in, but botched it with a pretender and an unrecognizable aim. Hell even Hydra in the first Captain america film is more what aim could've been with the weapons.
    Yeah, i kinda feel he might've refined the extremis formula so the operation can happen. Otherwise, why not get that done in IM1? Though it kinda leaves him vulnerable to loki's staff thing (not like they'd rehash that plot, but still). Tony didn't really seem to mind having the arc reactor in his chest and it was a big plot point in IM2. To me when he threw the reactor into the ocean, that's kinda what i felt about this movie: it is forgettable and tossable.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of RaizenYusuke

    RaizenYusuke

    [6]Mar 11, 2014
    • member since: 06/15/05
    • level: 28
    • rank: Disco Stu
    • posts: 8,074

    I disagree. Tony was in space and almost got caught in a nuclear explosion. He was legally dead for a few minutes before the Hulk started his heart up again. That would probably have a bigger effect on him than getting shrapnel in his heart and being held captive by terrorists. Unlike that situation Tony didn't do anything to fix it. IM1 had built the armor and fought back against the 10 Rings. In Avengers he fell and died for a minute or two and there nothing he could have done to save himself.


    I would love if Sony, Marvel, and Fox got together to make a mega crossover. I think that would be awesome. I could see these companies going in together to do something like that to make big bucks. Marvel and Fox came to agreement on Quicksliver and Scarlet Witch, so its possible. At the same time I don't think it will happen. Their business first and if there isn't a contract they can all agree on or directors to used etc. that will make working together hard. I don't mind Sony has Spider-Man or Fox has X-Men. Both companies did good jobs with the movies for the most part. The FF probably should have gone back to Marvel, since Fox scrambled to make a movie to keep the rights, but its fine.


    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of MajLorne

    MajLorne

    [7]Mar 11, 2014
    • member since: 01/31/08
    • level: 21
    • rank: Snagglepuss
    • posts: 3,464
    well, yeah i guess that's true and being more traumatic. Agreed, i would love to see the avengers fight the sinister six or they tried to adapt the xmen vs avengers storyline. So much potential if they could just let the crossovers happen. Other than Dr doom being lame and galactus as a cloud thing (and jessica alba being just for sex appeal), the FF movies were probably not that horrible (well at least not as bad as a batman and robin), but i would hope the reboot is done by Marvel. Fox should concentrate more on the xmen franchise.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of RaizenYusuke

    RaizenYusuke

    [8]Mar 12, 2014
    • member since: 06/15/05
    • level: 28
    • rank: Disco Stu
    • posts: 8,074

    I feel Fox should have worked on X-Men franchise and let Marvel get FF back as well. I hope Days of Future Past reboots the X-Men franchise with time travel. It's not that I dislike the X-Men franchise as a whole I just felt X3 did some poor choices that need to be undone, like Cyclops and Jean's deaths. Cyclops is underrated character IMO and he can be really interesting at times. Wolverine has been the main focus for nearly all the X-Men movies. It's time to movie away from him andleave his stories in the Wolverine movie series.Scott's gotten bad ass lately. He was awesome in the X-Men anime and Wolverine and the X-Men cartoon. I like redone Phoenix saga in the movies with Scott and Jean being the main focus over Logan and Jean. I don't really like Wolverine with Jean. I always felt Logan was a jerk for trying to steal her from Cyclops. Jean makes it clear that despite an attraction she loves Scott, so writers should drop that storyline from the movies.


    My concern about Avengers vs. X-Men movie would be to get them to fight where it doesn't make them look like dicks. In the movie format it work better than a comics, because they wouldn't know each other well enough. It's just dangerous if say the Avengers are hunting the X-Men because the government says their bad. We established the Avengers work outside the government and Shield in the movies. It would be odd for them to fight the X-Men and possibly make them look racist for fighting them because their mutants. The X-Men were to fight heroes who saved the world from an alien invasion seem odd because they would know their good.


    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of MajLorne

    MajLorne

    [9]Mar 14, 2014
    • member since: 01/31/08
    • level: 21
    • rank: Snagglepuss
    • posts: 3,464
    I agree, I respect jackman as being an awesome wolverine, but he's been taking too much of the spotlight. I've always been a jean-scott shipper. Having wolverine as the 3rd wheel was stupid. x3 was a huge letdown in killing off the key characters and basically botching characters. I really liked First class and like that jen lawrence and fassbender are gonna be in the new film. I just want a xmen film where xavier takes a larger role than just being on the sidelines or being made helpless. X2 was the best of the original trilogy and it was a shame seeing rouge and nightcrawler basically removed. first class, i liked how they introduced beast and that was a great way to explain why beast is blue. beast is a scientist, not a politician!

    Yeah, I guess an xmen and avengers movie would probably be better off as one of their animated movies then. If only marvel had what dc does with their animated films.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of ZekkJedi

    ZekkJedi

    [10]Mar 31, 2014
    • member since: 01/26/09
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 134
    MajLorne wrote:
    I agree, I respect jackman as being an awesome wolverine, but he's been taking too much of the spotlight. I've always been a jean-scott shipper. Having wolverine as the 3rd wheel was stupid. x3 was a huge letdown in killing off the key characters and basically botching characters. I really liked First class and like that jen lawrence and fassbender are gonna be in the new film. I just want a xmen film where xavier takes a larger role than just being on the sidelines or being made helpless. X2 was the best of the original trilogy and it was a shame seeing rouge and nightcrawler basically removed. first class, i liked how they introduced beast and that was a great way to explain why beast is blue. beast is a scientist, not a politician!

    Yeah, I guess an xmen and avengers movie would probably be better off as one of their animated movies then. If only marvel had what dc does with their animated films.

    agreed on all, although personally I'm a fan of the Emma/Scott pairing, more than him and Jean (which is probably thanks to Whedon's great writing of Emma/Scott in Astonishing X-Men).
    As far as Rogue and Nightcrawler, esp with inclusion of Azezal in 1st class, they should really do something with Mystique's whole weird family, and since Brian Singer has pretty clearly made being a mutant in the films relate to real-life LGBTQ stuff, they could even have the original plan (before writers and marvel of the time chickened out) for Rogue's parentage (in comics) actually be the case in the movies [Mystique is her Father! as in Mystique and Destiny (Destiny is a blind precognitive, she was at least Rogue's adoptive mom in X-Men Evolution) were lovers and Mystique got Destiny pregnant (which makes it kind of simultaneously all of LGBTQ at once)]

    On DC animated films, unfortunately it looks like they've started getting worse and worse, and are starting to follow the gods-awful Nu52 I just saw JL: War and the only way I could even finish watching it was to assume it was some weird DC/Marvel universe with a Wonder Woman-Valkyrie, Thor-Captain Marvel-Shazam (Captain Thunder, I guess), Iron Lantern, etc (Supes was like if u combined Cyclops and Hulk and made him fly)

    I saw the IM3 short, and mostly enjoyed it (except for the references to sexual slavery that goes on in prisons, and played for laughs no less?! way to keep it classy Marvel! And one of the things that's been consistently good in all the rest is a refreshing lack of dark sex stuff, something the comics can't seem to manage, at least no one used the r-word I guess?)
    If they actually do have a real Mandarin show-up I'll be happy. esp after IM3 it'd work well since no one'd believe anyone who claimed he was real
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of ZekkJedi

    ZekkJedi

    [11]Mar 31, 2014
    • member since: 01/26/09
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 134
    Also just to add to what RaizenYusuke already said so well about the PTSD, it should also be noted that it's more often a case of the straw that broke the camel's back. i.e. the actual thing you get PTSD from may not in fact be the worst thing you went through, it can be the last in a long string of cumulative trauma, and it may even have been the least harrowing, but if it's what causes a person to break then that's what their PTSD is tied into even if you've done/been through worse stuff before.
    Just how the brain works. Kind of like (to use a completely benign, non-PTSD comparison) how if you eat something at a fair and then go on a ride that makes you upchuck, you'll be more likely to have an adverse reaction to the prospect of that same food again, than you will to the ride itself (even though the ride is what you know to academically be the cause). The very last sight/sound/smell/tastes etc usually become the "trigger"
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of MajLorne

    MajLorne

    [12]Apr 1, 2014
    • member since: 01/31/08
    • level: 21
    • rank: Snagglepuss
    • posts: 3,464
    well, i think that would be a total whoa on if mystique was the father thing. I know they are trying to be more accepting to the lgbt crowd, but i would prefer they just make rouge an adopted daughter for mystique. Hem they never said who nightcrawler's father was, so azazel could make sense. I hope it doesn't mean he rapes her or something, but hey i don't see them as being a couple either...
    watching wolverine and the xmen, i can see an emma scott pairing.

    Oh man, that is a shame about the dc animated films. If the quality is going south on those, i hate to imagine the future of hero animated films in general. I mean is the last place to turn to for quality hero stuff going to be outsourced to japan via anime? I like anime, but seeing the marvel stuff as an anime looks weird.

    lol, hem i didn't see that episode yet, but i guess that's why it is a one shot and not part of the im3 film. I am kinda surprised they would allow adult humor in like that, but then again i guess it was unavoidable. Yeah i am looking forward to a 4th im film with the real mandarin and maybe a 'real' aim. perhaps modok could be there leading aim.

    fair point on the ptsd thing. I dunno, i mean i still feel it was forced in IM3 just for the sake of the plotline where tony gets panic attacks and why he built so many suits. otoh, there is some point about all the trauma eventually leading him to just crack under pressure. So i'm still mixed on that part.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of ZekkJedi

    ZekkJedi

    [13]Apr 1, 2014
    • member since: 01/26/09
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 134

    Yeah, although personally I'd love for them to have her actually be Mystique and Destiny's biological daughter they don't have to show it, or make clear that Mystique is the "father", but even if they just glossed over it such that people could equally assume "test tube baby" I'd be happy; there are far stranger things that actually have been in comics etc. I'd say there's no reason not to make Rogue's parentage canonical in this day and age, but I'd agree I'm not holding my breath that any studio is going take such a "risk"


    Pretty sure the Azazel thing was just a seduction on one/both their parts in the original comics, just looked it up again; yeah she was married to some german nobleman at the time, but wanted a kid and has only ever found that she could conceive with another mutant, so she had several affairs under different shifter guises (looking for other mutants I guess) and one happened to be with him. Also if you'll recall from the old 90s toon her and Sabertooth's kid (also a consensual relationship in comics) was born as a non-mutant. I always liked the Mystique family connection episodes in the toons, particularly what they did with Rogue and Kurt re: their mom in X-Men Evolution.


    One plus with that JL: War thing was the voice actor for Korra voiced wonder woman, and most of the wonder woman fight scenes were cool, but again she wasn't written as anyone I'd truly recognize as Wondy. So it's a bit like saying the only good thing in the terrible 70/80s adaptation of Dune was Patrick Stewart, when the fact is his presence does nothing to improve/distract from the awful.


    On the "adult humor" (I'd say neither term is applicable as I didn't find that stuff funny, I found it disturbing and showing of a juvenile attitude to a sad aspect of reality [As I alluded to already the fact that there hasn't been any sexual violence so far in the film-verse is a very good thing that hopefully continues]) in IM3-sequel-short, it wasn't in your face about it most of the time, but it was significant enough that it's the only short I'd be hesitant to let a kid watch. Except for Coulson's death (and he's "back" now so most any kid'd be ok w/it at this point) I'd say that most/all of the film stuff is something that an adult could watch with a kid easily. (Y'know still talk to the kid about the more intense stuff etc)


    I'm fine w/the ptsd in IM3 but agree they could've done more/made it more that a plot point that came and went/pointed out that it is probably partly tied-in to his previous traumas /etc but honestly it got more attention, and was handled better than you'd ever expect in something that's ultimately a "fun action flick" so I'll cut it the slack.


    Also we shouldn't forget the "call of cthulhu" (or for Hitchhiker's Guide fans, the machine involving angel-food-cake that show's you the universe w/a little "u r here" dot) aspect of Tony coming to grips with how vast the cosmos/threats/etc are and how comparatively small he is. [Though again that's part of why the "Next stop space" ending would've worked so damn well, if done right. It wouldn't've taken much more than a little additional dialogue before-hand to make it clear that he was about to embrace that which had so frightened him b4 rocketing off]

    Edited on 04/01/2014 12:34pm
    Edited 2 total times.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of MajLorne

    MajLorne

    [14]Apr 1, 2014
    • member since: 01/31/08
    • level: 21
    • rank: Snagglepuss
    • posts: 3,464
    Good point, i forgot she slept around with a bunch of ppl. Ah yes, i remember mystique and sabertooth being creed's parents (leader of the friends of humanity mob).

    I do agree that for the most part the marvel films have been clean regarding the sexual humor and dont see any place for it now. I just hope they keep it to the dvd extras and not in the finished product. As for the violence, it isn't dark knight levels, so thankfully they havent had to water down too much of the films when they air on basic cable. Unfortunately they still managed to cut out like 5 min worth of stuff from the first cap movie, i just dont remember where. I only found out when i compared it to the dvd i had of it when seeing it end to end before the credits rolled.

    On im3, i mean i bash it, but in the end some stuff was nice like the all out battle at the end. I still think it was stupid to blow all the remaining armors up and how the end credit scene was a major letdown instead of a potential set up for the guardians of the galaxy with tony in a space armor suit. They could've still salvaged the movie, but ultimately after the reveal of the fake mandarin, the movie started going downhill from there imo.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of ZekkJedi

    ZekkJedi

    [15]Apr 2, 2014
    • member since: 01/26/09
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 134
    Well she's one of the oldest mutants (behind Apocalypse and Selene [the life vampire from the hellfire club; she was in WatX]) so I mean having slept with a ton of people is kind of par for the course (although in films I guess she's not as old)

    On the censorship thing I know what you mean; I have Leverage (awesome tv show that sadly only got the 5 seasons) on DVD, but I've been catching marathons of it on tv anyway and was very annoyed when I realized they were cutting dialogue/flashbacks etc smh. The only case where I could understand y (but was still the more frustrating) was b/c in the 2nd ep one of the mains gets voice print from the mark; getting him to use the letters c, f, k and u by pissing him off so he says "this is shrimp you stupid F---!" it's not like they got further than the 1st letter b4 jumping to another scene in the original, but on the tv marathon they just cut after shrimp so it made no bloody sense!

    If I had to guess I'd say the 5min were the actual nazis
    That was really my only complaint with Cap's film, they're nazis hydra=nazi splinter group, Cap punches nazis! stop trying to gloss over this! the only ones it might offend r neo-nazis who deserve worse than being offended. It's not like germany'll be offended, they loved Inglorious Bastards over there, it's like Erskine said in the film "the 1st country the nazis invaded was [germany]" (Though at least it was better than in A:EMH where we outright replaced Nazis w/Hydra, b/c revisionist history and glossing over mistakes of the past never ended badly...oh wait, that was part of what the nazis actually DID wtg FCC!)

    I agree w/the sentiment and as I said the IM in space is really something that should happen as part of his dealing with and confronting the anxiety, but as I've said I loved the Mandarin twist, and loved how awesome Pepper got to be. Other than that though, yeah Killian wasn't great as a villain (and for the record I don't think he could've been better than we got even if he in some way hurt tony more, did more evil acts, or he turned into modok or something nuts). The film has problems but it's still my favorite IM film and my 3rd fav Marvel film to date.
    On the blow-up the armors I heard someone make the point that while that ending isn't "good for" the franchise as a whole, it is a phenomenally good ending for the Iron Man franchise of films (trilogy), which frankly I couldn't agree with more. We'll see in Ultron, but I suspect they'll make it work with him trying to have Ultron be a way he can "move on" from the armors, and ultimately fail, leading him to need to suit up again. [They already have concept art (and a life-sized hand) for what's hopefully a full-on giant hulkbuster vs hulk fight!]
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of RaizenYusuke

    RaizenYusuke

    [16]Apr 3, 2014
    • member since: 06/15/05
    • level: 28
    • rank: Disco Stu
    • posts: 8,074

    They were Nazis who didn't fit Hitler's ideal of perfect race and got demoted. Cap fought Nazis lol.


    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of ZekkJedi

    ZekkJedi

    [17]Apr 3, 2014
    • member since: 01/26/09
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 134

    RaizenYusuke wrote:


    They were Nazis who didn't fit Hitler's ideal of perfect race and got demoted. Cap fought Nazis lol.



    Well if you mean Red Skull himself yes, and that was a good addition to the mythology.


    Other than perhaps Zola, none of the faceless Hydra goons were said to be "kicked-out" other than b/c they sided with Skull.


    The whole reason that the creators of Captain America (at least one of whom was Jewish) made Rogers a blonde-haired blue-eyed superhuman was to say to the third reich: "Here's your 'uber-mench' and he's gonna kick your @$$ b/c your evil!"


    So adding that they tried to make a super human who'd side with them backfired and made someone "as ugly on the outside as on the inside" is great as another dig at the severely flawed philosophy they based their political platform on.


    Similarly I was interested by the idea of Will Smith being cast as Cap, as it takes the original reasoning for the character's appearance and reverses it to instead be "Here's your 'uber-mench' and he's of one of the many races you always point to as inferior to aryans" (actually I still hope we might get to see a member of the Bradley family in the films, particularly Isaiah [who was in fact an African-American super-soldier in WWII] and his grandson Elijah)

    Edited on 04/03/2014 6:01pm
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of MajLorne

    MajLorne

    [18]Apr 5, 2014
    • member since: 01/31/08
    • level: 21
    • rank: Snagglepuss
    • posts: 3,464
    I dunno, i mean i've accepted a black nick fury, but i think it would be a huge uproar if they had recasted cap as a black actor. Look at the heat for heimdal when they got luis iba? To play him. Maybe if it was an alternate reality, but i kinda doubt they would've gotten away with such a casting.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of ZekkJedi

    ZekkJedi

    [19]Apr 5, 2014
    • member since: 01/26/09
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 134
    MajLorne wrote:
    I dunno, i mean i've accepted a black nick fury, but i think it would be a huge uproar if they had recasted cap as a black actor. Look at the heat for heimdal when they got luis iba? To play him. Maybe if it was an alternate reality, but i kinda doubt they would've gotten away with such a casting.

    I agree that's why they didn't, and hey I'm exceedingly impressed with Chris Evans as him (even though based on the bad FF films I was very skeptical at first). I'm just saying that the implications are downright fascinating
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of RaizenYusuke

    RaizenYusuke

    [20]Apr 6, 2014
    • member since: 06/15/05
    • level: 28
    • rank: Disco Stu
    • posts: 8,074

    ZekkJedi wrote:


    RaizenYusuke wrote:


    They were Nazis who didn't fit Hitler's ideal of perfect race and got demoted. Cap fought Nazis lol.



    Well if you mean Red Skull himself yes, and that was a good addition to the mythology.


    Other than perhaps Zola, none of the faceless Hydra goons were said to be "kicked-out" other than b/c they sided with Skull.


    The whole reason that the creators of Captain America (at least one of whom was Jewish) made Rogers a blonde-haired blue-eyed superhuman was to say to the third reich: "Here's your 'uber-mench' and he's gonna kick your @$$ b/c your evil!"


    So adding that they tried to make a super human who'd side with them backfired and made someone "as ugly on the outside as on the inside" is great as another dig at the severely flawed philosophy they based their political platform on.


    Similarly I was interested by the idea of Will Smith being cast as Cap, as it takes the original reasoning for the character's appearance and reverses it to instead be "Here's your 'uber-mench' and he's of one of the many races you always point to as inferior to aryans" (actually I still hope we might get to see a member of the Bradley family in the films, particularly Isaiah [who was in fact an African-American super-soldier in WWII] and his grandson Elijah)


    The Hydra was a science cell for Nazis. Most of their designs they couldn't get to work before that they got the cube. The conditions of that base and how the top brass treated the Skull it was most likely a place that wasn't getting much funding and was where soldiers who's careers were basically over got put into. If the branch isn't getting funding it would mean soldiers there aren't there by choice, but rather they were assigned there for various reasons. Red Skull getting put there because he no longer fit Hitler's ideal of Aryan superiority is most likely the reason why most people are put in a science cell that wasn't funded well. Their reasoning for siding with Skull over Hitler would make sense too if they like the Skull were there because their careers were over with Hitler's reign.


    I don't think a black actor should play Steve Roger, because it further continues to feed the politically correct history. The Howling Commandos was brought together in the movie because Steve got to pick the team who were mismatched group of soldiers for multiple divisions whogot over their race issues thanks to being imprisoned for some time, but it still there. One of them made a crack on one being Asian, assuming he was Japanese.Peggy got crap over being British and a woman in the training camp.It isimplied that Philips fought for Carter to be in the position she was in and his division wasn't well funded and looked upon judging by how he interacted with the top brass. I doubts that even Philips could have fought hard enough to get a black man the chance to be the first super soldier. Duringthis time period the United States was very segregated.Prejudice existed within both government and military. If Steve Rogers was black he wouldn't have been selected and the United States definitely wouldn't have made him the face of America like they did in the movie. The U.S. was progressive enough to say hey your wrong Nazis here is a black guy who is the peak of human perfection. Remember just because they disagreed with Nazis didn't mean that they by any means meant they say minorities as equals. That's still pretty far off. One of the reasons I loved Captain America movie is it actually does good job at keeping the underlined racism/sexism in the movie that would have been lost if Will Smith was Captain America.


    It would have been a progressive move and I see why people wanted it. Personally I feela black Steve Rogers ignores the unlikely hood of him getting picked by the US to be theirfirst soldier and further ignores some of the real race issues in U.S.that we as society like to forgot. I'm a history major, so the issues resonates with me. You want makeNick Fury and Jonny Storm blackIsay more power to you. Steve Rogersthe face ofAmerica during 40s being blackis a progressive movethat our country wasn't ready to make yet. Despite being fiction I believe there is a certain extent to how much can change. People don't realize how bad it was during the 40s in terms of race issue.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.