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CBS (ended 2011)

are there any real mediums that want to chat?

  • Avatar of tvlover89

    tvlover89

    [21]Jul 31, 2006
    • member since: 05/05/06
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 949
    Dr_Jan_Itor wrote:

    tvlover89 wrote:
    Okay chill out "doctor" I know your kind believes in logic over the "supernatural" and what can't be explained by medicine and science and that's fine. But don't go dashing out on "slient_medium" (...) You could have an opinion but don't act like its fact.

    Hey, if I was anymore 'chill' than I am now I'd be a friggin' polar bear. I didn't lash out at any one, sure, I might have used a little sarcasm. But seeing silent_medium is a House M.D. fan, I thought she'd be able to appreciate it. I only pointed out one thing as fact in my long rant: "But fact is, many so-called mediums make boat loads of cash by ripping of people who have lost a family member, partner or close one in the past." That's it, and are you saying there's no truth to that? Do some research, see how many con(wo)men there have been out there throughout the ages.

    And thank you so much for allowing me to have an opinion, may I also have one on how naive you appear to be?

    tvlover89 wrote:
    I think she's telling the truth, I mean it be kinda pointless to go on a forum and pretend to be what you not and I think she is a real medium. Joining the ranks of Alice Deburi and Sylivia Brown.

    Are you kidding me? Tell that to all the pre-teens out there who got fooled by some pervy pedophile who pretended to be of their age and/or sex. The internet is all about being able to pretend you're someone(thing) that you're actually not. Excuse me for not accepting she's a real medium just because you think so.

    I have something to tell you; my real name is Kal-El, I'm the son of Jor-El and I come from a planet called Krypton. I have a lot of daddy issues but I go out and save the world on an almost daily basis anyway. It would be pointless of me to tell you this if I was not Kal-El, so hey, then I must be him, right? See where I'm going with this?

    And joining the ranks Allison Dubois and Sylvia Brown? Read the following outtakes from a transcript that I linked to above but you seemingly didn't read:

    wrote:
    She [Sylvia Brown, ed.] had the bad luck to be commenting on a developing news story — the mining disaster in West Virginia —- which took a surprise turn.

    That tragic twist — that the wrong announcement had been made about the miners’ fates — turned out to be even worse for Browne.

    (...)

    Browne, (...), was relieved to hear from Noory that all but one of the miners was alive.

    Noory: "Had you been on the program today, would [you] have felt if — because they heard no sound — that this was a very gloomy moment — and that they might have all died?"

    Browne: "No. I knew they were going to be found. I hate people that say something after the fact. It’s just like I knew when the pope was dead. Thank God I was on Montel’s show. I said, according to the time, it was 9-something and whatever Rome time was. And I said he was gone, and he was."

    (...)

    Noory soon announced that there were new reports that all but one of the miners was dead.

    Browne — who was still in the studio taking questions from listeners — had to say something. Now she was just riffing: "I don’t think there’s anybody alive, maybe one. How crazy for them to report that they were alive when they weren’t!" Then she added: "I just don’t think they are alive." She cleared her throat, and there was a deafening pause.

    (...)

    She blurted: "I didn't believe that they were alive."

    Noory: "What’s that, the miners?"

    Browne: "Yeah, I didn’t think — and see, I’ve been on the show with you, but I don’t think there’s any that are going to make it."

    Noory: "They say there are 12 gone. I think we threw you a curveball, we were telling you after the fact."

    Browne: "Yeah, no, I did believe that they were gone.".

    Yeah, she's the real deal alright. She probably never took up the Million Dollar Challenge from James Randi (although she once said on Larry King Live that she would) because she's stinkin' rich already.

    If you really think she's actually doing it to help people out, should I even bother handing you evidence on a platter like the Brown story above?

    PS You don't believe self professed mediums are frauds, but you do believe that love is some BS feeling that people make up? If you're skeptical there, why believe an internet message board poster just because they claim something?

    I'm sorry, Now you just talking about something you don't know about. Sylvia Brown is a great person who is a true psychic and all she does is help people, she might be rich but hey...a womans gotta make a living and she makes hers by telling people what the future has stored for them. so please doctor, stick to medicine and the comfort of only what you could explain through  science. okay thank you.  

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  • Avatar of Dr_Jan_Itor

    Dr_Jan_Itor

    [22]Aug 1, 2006
    • member since: 06/12/06
    • level: 12
    • rank: Evil Bert
    • posts: 987

    tvlover89 wrote:
      I'm sorry, Now you just talking about something you don't know about. Sylvia Brown is a great person who is a true psychic and all she does is help people, she might be rich but hey...a womans gotta make a living and she makes hers by telling people what the future has stored for them. so please doctor, stick to medicine and the comfort of only what you could explain through  science. okay thank you.  

    She's a great person alright, one that was convicted for larceny and securities fraud in 1992 (http://www.nndb.com/people/297/000026219/). She also seems to 'borrow' observations from other authors for her own books without crediting them and making statements as if they were her own authentic findings (http://www.randi.org/jr/200511/112505psychich.html under the header 'SYLVIA BORROWS A PHRASE OR TWO').

    Seriously, did you even read the transcript? She goes back on her story without even admitting she was wrong, you're not even dismissing it, you're downright ignoring it. And as far as her predictions go, check out the ones she made for 2000 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_predictions_made_by_Sylvia_Browne). She got a whopping 4 out of 40 correct (with the one about political success for Trump and Warren Beatty being pretty obvious and seeing a divorce for a showbiz couple isn't that hard to guess correctly either). That's about the same success rate as just plain guessing, I could've had those rates. Want me to predict your future? I'll only charge you 250 bucks for it.

    She also said on Montell Williams that the previous pope would die in 2000 and the new one would be a black man from the US, turns out it would end up being a white guy from Germany, let alone that the date was way off.

    What about that she said that fairies, dwarfs, unicorns, and leprechauns exist, and that there are different, dimensional, levels that they cross over to get to us? She also said that we were put here by aliens, yet she believes in God. Now which of the two put us here?

    Want to know what the future has in store for us? Atlantis will begin to show itself in 2023. A moon base will be created for people to visit (no specific date). By 2055 most people will be living in domed cities. Execution for the death penalty will become a complete vaporization of the body. She has claimed that the Antichrist is scheduled to be born in 2005 or 2006, in Syria; she says he will have dark hair and will become a great spiritual leader before his evil is realized. Aliens will begin to show themselves in the year 2010, they will not harm us, they simply want to see what we are doing to this planet. They will teach us how to use anti-gravity devices again, such as they did for the pyramids. You sooner put your faith in her so called abilities than in the reasonable and substantiated explanation that she's a fraud?

    Would you really put your trust in her? She preys on people who would gladly hand over boatloads of money just for some reassurance. She uses techniques like cold and warm reading to get info and together with some subjective validation that turns into 'truths'. She gives medical advice while she only has a degree in English literature! If she knows so much, why does she always start out with asking questions? She doesn't help people, she gives them false hope while charging absurd amounts of money.

    She has said multiple times that she would take James Randi his challenge to prove her abilities but backed out as many times giving bogus reasons. All of her objections have been met, but still she stays awkwardly silent on the whole thing. Maybe she knows she will be outed as a fraud? She didn't see her own conviction coming, nor 9/11, although after the fact she made some more preposterous claims.

    Do some research, read the research provided by others, and don't come with those non-arguments like I "don't know what [I'm] talking about" or anecdotal 'evidence' by true believers. Show me the facts. 

    Just stop being ignorant and only skeptical when it fits your own believes, please.

    Edited on 08/01/2006 4:51am
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  • Avatar of elesia

    elesia

    [23]Aug 1, 2006
    • member since: 08/01/06
    • level: 4
    • rank: Thighmaster
    • posts: 85
    I totally agree with Dr_Jan_Itor. Give the guy a break, he is entitled to his opinion.

    As for Silent_Medium, if you can truly see the dead I would be interested to know whether you actually use this 'gift' to help other people or do you use it for personal gain?
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  • Avatar of omdeelie

    omdeelie

    [24]Aug 1, 2006
    • member since: 08/01/06
    • level: 1
    • rank: Weatherman
    • posts: 4
    'solid' proof, 'dr'? what a joke...there is no such thing as 'solid'...next you'll be using words such as 'forever' and 'never'...
    i feel sorry for people who don't understand what this girl is asking...only shows how damaged they are...
    listen folks...your civilization is melting...day by day...
    you have about 50/75 years...you want 'solid proof'?
    go to www.bbc.co.uk/climatechaos and stay away from forums where all you have to share is your hurt and resultant destructive anger...trying to 'tear down' deconstuct someone elses understanding(she OBVIOUSLY has experiential truth. as solid as it gets. it's obvious from how she is undeterred by the funmaking and criticism...that's all the truth that anyone deep/strong ever needs...
    you're only angry because YOU don't have that sort of proof...
    keep an open mind and heart...that's my only instruction...
    i won't be so cynical as to think it's wasted time/words...
    believe me mister, if you saw/experienced something of the nature i imagine this girl has, NOONE would be able to take that away from you...although, obviously, people love to try...
    feel free to respond...i've had a lifetime full of these sorts of experiences and, as a nurse, have used my 'psychic'(ridiculously primitive terminology/ compart/
    mentalization. EVERYone/thing is connected/has access to more info than they can handle...)to save more than a few lives...
    we don't care about what you think...you're sad in your need to insist on ignoring the simple miracles of life that are still mostly unexplainable...explain imagination...explain how you breathe...i want solid proof now... ;-)

    btw...read up on particle/quantum physics a bit before you answer me, ok? i have 'proof'. but i've 'done the work'/pd the price in many many ways...this is not a complaint...my life, to someone like you, would be 'unbelievable'. still it's my life. it happened. i was there. ;-). i'm sure there are lots of wounded that would like to tell me otherwise...have fun commiserating and trying to convince yourselves that you're 'right'. as if there's really such a thing as right and wrong...
    faith isn't a tightrope...it's a planet...
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  • Avatar of omdeelie

    omdeelie

    [25]Aug 1, 2006
    • member since: 08/01/06
    • level: 1
    • rank: Weatherman
    • posts: 4
    wow...you claim to be a real doctor?
    i just realized that...
    you're probably the kind of doctor that tells people that i've helped walk that they will never walk again...
    like i said. i was there. i saw it all happen...and it's much weirder than that...but you'll have to 'get' your own experiences/stories to prove it to yourself...that's not my job...i know you're dead set against believing b/c of YOUR wounds, not the person who started this forum...
    i can't believe that they issue medical licenses to people like you...i've had to deal with your sort all of my long nursing career...you usually do more harm than good...
    i'm someone who was shot in the arm and lost the use of my left hand, according to the doctors, 'permanently d/t 'medial and lateral neurogical damage to my hand'. guess how many i'm using to type way over a 100 wpm?
    gee...i wonder what woulda happened if i believed them?
    i hope you're not practicing anymore...hope you're just sticking to spreading your poisoned hearts blood on pages like these...not TOtally harmless, but i'm not worried about 'silent medium'...she's got the experience... ;-)
    you do too...you're just some hurt child stamping his feet and threatening to turn blue...
    you're one of those people who says...'i don't believe in god'...as if it would matter whether or not you, in your puniness, should make a difference b/c you believe? talk about arrogance...that's the definition...
    now you go and make some more of that adrenaline you're obviously so addicted to...
    this topic is WAY out of your experience, though in your profession nothing should be further than the truth...
    make any money last year, charlie(short for charlatan. you want to get nasty? the worst person to do that with are the ones that see through you...we know how to REALLY hurt you...
    i'd advise backing off before we try. never have to lay a finger on someone to break their heart...but someone beat me to it, judging from your vibe...oh sorry. no such thing as 'vibes'...or xrays...or intelligent life on this planet in the form of hairless apes, judging from the oncoming ecological disasters heading our way in a few generations...
    you'll have proof faster than you can say 'katrina' ;-)
    i'm older. i have no children...nothing 'invested'
    i'd get a move on if you DO have children...
    why are you still reading this?
    ;-)
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  • Avatar of omdeelie

    omdeelie

    [26]Aug 1, 2006
    • member since: 08/01/06
    • level: 1
    • rank: Weatherman
    • posts: 4
    ok...
    look...
    we're ALL mediums...channeling 'creativity' simply by living and making choices...and if you think not making a choice isn't a choice, look at who's president of the US...

    and there are soooooooo many misconceptions...systems running on old information...
    it's a shame that at this time of 'synthesis'...the ability to patch together the smorgasboord of information available, we're still missing something...
    we're emotional infants...
    we take great pride in our intelligence quotients but are mostly like idiot savants...bulked out in only one or two sets of muscles and those muscles are set to jump off the closest cliff...and take as many people as possible with...
    as poetic as this stuff might be...it's real accessible...
    meant to be so...if you don't understand some of the words, there are sites that will help you...you found your way HERE, you can find your way THERE...try dictionary.com...no fooling, no condescension...i don't usu 'visit' sites like this...
    i 'signed up' b/c i have lots of knowledge in areas where most people don't...or some of those that do exploit it in ways that make the people who are hurt/angry hurt or angry... ;-)

    the reason i speak so freely of the ecology as part of this is b/c 'separation' is just conceptualization...not 'reality'...
    it's like trying to separate or say that blood isn't part of your body b/c it's compartmentalized in vessels...or that the brain isn't connected to the lungs...
    it's ALL connected...
    and we're ALL/everything mediums...
    i don't care about what you believe. i could write books about experiences you wouldn't believe...
    it's not important.
    the ONLY thing i see as important is the ecology issue...
    you won't have a living room to argue from in not too long...
    this IS connected to our behavior/emotional processing/general perspective...
    if one had the 'empathy'? sensitivity? how about 'imagination'? THERE's a neutral word, right? if one had the imagination to imagine how someone might feel when we did something to hurt them, not necessarily intentionally, might it not deter that perpertraitor(sic) ;-) to not do that action again?
    and how many times has it been documented about 'super'human actions being performed...those of strength by people around people trapped by 'unmovable' objects...or a mother knows that their child is hurt/ill or worse...
    it would be unscientific to ignore this...
    but this is as much as i feel like explaining to anyone other than the person who asked to speak to a medium in the first place...
    i understand what you're asking...
    i may be able to explain a few things to you.
    i don't want money or anything else except to help you understand...
    i will not come back to this site again(for things other than tv info, which is why i came in the first place. the rest is just 'coincidence'. if you believe in that sort of thing ;-) after 48 hrs from now...1am wed, holland time.

    if we don't get to exchange ideas, good luck...
    ;-)
    good luck to the rest of youze, too... ;-)
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  • Avatar of Dr_Jan_Itor

    Dr_Jan_Itor

    [27]Aug 2, 2006
    • member since: 06/12/06
    • level: 12
    • rank: Evil Bert
    • posts: 987

    omdeelie wrote:
    'solid' proof, 'dr'? what a joke...there is no such thing as 'solid'...next you'll be using words such as 'forever' and 'never'...

    omdeelie wrote:
    wow...you claim to be a real doctor?

    First, I never claimed to be a doctor, where'd you get that from? It's a reference to a situation in a comedy called Scrubs, which you might have gotten from the avatar I use. It's Neill Flynn, whose character is a janitor and pretends to be a doctor once, hence dr. Jan Itor. Have anymore conclusions you want to jump to?

    Using the scientific method, proof can be as solid as it gets, but not always I might add (before you jump down my throat on that one). Is anything always solidly proven? Why do I have the feeling we're talking semantics here?

    I asked for solid proof because someone said they had no reason not to believe an anonymous message board poster, which I find a bit naive. I expressed this by using sarcasm. Sorry if people around here are a bit sensitive, but I don't see that as being my problem, sue me. In a following post I also said:

     

    Dr_Jan_Itor wrote:
    I'm in no way claiming to know anything about your situation or implying anything about your self-proclaimed 'gift'

    All that says is that I'm skeptical about someone just saying "Hey, I'm a medium". I backed my view on the matter up with sources that showed how many frauds there are out there.

    omdeelie wrote:
    listen folks...your civilization is melting...day by day...
    you have about 50/75 years...you want 'solid proof'?
    go to www.bbc.co.uk/climatechaos and stay away from forums where all you have to share is your hurt and resultant destructive anger...

    As opposed to your own civilization? Just kidding. Now how did climate change get into this? Because I summed up a few of Sylvia Brown her preposterous 'visions' of the future or because you want to bring your own agenda into the mix? I'm not saying there's no climate change. Climates have been changing for millions of years, and the current inhabitants of the earth aren't helping at the moment. That's the way this world has worked, species get extinct and new species come along. Humans are doomed and one day another (possibly) 'intelligent' species will arise. But I'll refrain from going too much off-topic. As soon as the aliens come around in 2010, I'm sure they'll help us out.

    And my "hurt and resultant destructive anger", again, perhaps you're jumping to conclusions?

    omdeelie wrote:
    you're only angry because YOU don't have that sort of proof... (...)

    believe me mister, if you saw/experienced something of the nature i imagine this girl has, NOONE would be able to take that away from you...although, obviously, people love to try...
     

    And you do know what she has seen/experienced? Just using my imagination doesn't cut it for me, there's already enough of that on the web, and in the world for that matter. Have any idea how many schizophrenics out there hear voices and think they're talking to the dead/God/Elvis? I don't have numbers and am not saying she is a schizo, but isn't that a more plausible explanation? If you're in medicine, I'd think you'd sooner draw the conclusion (seeing how much you seem to love drawing them) that it has to do with a chemical imbalance or perhaps too much imagination. But I never said I was all knowing, or even dismissed her self professed gift at that. I'm skeptical and I like to see proof before I blindly believe someone/thing. Is that really such a horrible thing for me to demand?

    I've experienced some crazy sh!t once, but I was stoned out of my mind. I still experienced it though, so in your theory it's experiential truth ("as solid as it gets"), right? So were there really pink elephants or was it just in my brain? The brain can be funny that way...

    omdeelie wrote:
    we don't care about what you think...you're sad in your need to insist on ignoring the simple miracles of life that are still mostly unexplainable...explain imagination...explain how you breathe...i want solid proof now... ;-)

    OK, is it about the actual breathing itself or more on the whole respiration thing? Fact is, breathing (respiration) has been proven already and seeing we're all breathing and living here, I'm pretty sure breathing exists.

    Imagination is a more tricky subject which I admittedly know little about. After a small Wikipedia session, I see you can see it as having a general meaning (the power and process of producing mental images and ideas) or as a term used in psychology. Since you didn't really specify, I'll refrain from getting too elaborate in answering (since I'm already doing that with the rest of what you throw at me). Funny thing I dug up however is that some psychics continue to propagate the belief that humans only use 10% of their brain by asserting that the "unused" 90% of the human brain is capable of exhibiting psychic powers and can be trained to perform  psychokinesis and extra-sensory perception. Again, deceiving people into believing something untrue.

    So now I'm also sad, is there a need in you to assume something about my character in every paragraph you write?

    omdeelie wrote:
    my life, to someone like you, would be 'unbelievable'. still it's my life. it happened. i was there. ;-). i'm sure there are lots of wounded that would like to tell me otherwise...have fun commiserating and trying to convince yourselves that you're 'right'. as if there's really such a thing as right and wrong...
    faith isn't a tightrope...it's a planet...

    Assume, assume, assume, and then you take a turn to the philosophical which I won't follow. I'm not saying I'm right, I haven't so far. And yes, 'miracle' recoveries happen, I've also seen them. Thing is, doctors are humans too and make mistakes. On a basic level, they make educated guesses based on the knowledge they have and the interpretations they make on the information provided. So a lot of factors come into the equation.

    I can tell you an anecdote of one of my sister her friends who had a brain tumor discovered that was deemed inoperable and was told she'd only have six months to live. She went back to South-Africa to be with her family, got a second opinion and was operated on. Four years later, no more tumor, still married and two lovely kids to boot. Doctors are not infallible and they can't predict everything, but I'd take a doctor his opinion over that of Sylvia Brown with her English Literature degree any day. Other gullible people don't, that's why I think she's dangerous and a fraud.

    You reference Holland time, so I'd guess you're Dutch or at least live in the Netherlands. Remember the story of Sylvia Millecam who went to local miracle worker Jomanda? I believe she died after all the 'help' she got from her and other 'alternative healers'. They kept telling her that she didn't have breast cancer and treated her for, what they thought to be, a bacterial infection with paracetamol. Yes, she made the decisions of what treatment to undertake herself, but was mislead and lied to right up until she had to be hospitalized. She died three days later.

    I would think (see, I'm not stating fact here) that those 'miracle' recoveries have more to do with the strength of character of the person involved and the sheer determination of not just plainly accepting the situation one is in but to keep on fighting for a better life. Where does the supernatural come into this equation? If things can't immediately be explained by reason/science, why look for answers in the supernatural? That is soooo 500 years ago.

    omdeelie wrote:
    hope you're just sticking to spreading your poisoned hearts blood on pages like these...(...) you're just some hurt child stamping his feet and threatening to turn blue...
    you're one of those people who says...'i don't believe in god'...as if it would matter whether or not you, in your puniness, should make a difference b/c you believe? talk about arrogance...that's the definition...
    now you go and make some more of that adrenaline you're obviously so addicted to...

    And you say that I'M the nasty one? Reading your three posts, it looks like a lot of venting of anger on your side. I haven't been dismissing anything definitive about silent_medium, I just asked for proof. All I'm getting in return is stuff like "You're arrogant", "It's true because I think it's true and she said so" or other unsubstantiated arguments. You judge me on a couple of posts on a TV website and seem to know everything about me. How open minded is that?

    According to you, I'm just a sad puny arrogant illiterate harmful poison hearted adrenaline addicted inexperienced ignorant childlike charlatan who doesn't have knowledge of a lot of things that most people don't, but you do seem to have (arrogance anyone?).

    Ring-ring   "Hello Kettle? This is Pot... You are BLACK!"

    omdeelie wrote:
    the worst person to do that with are the ones that see through you...we know how to REALLY hurt you...
    i'd advise backing off before we try. never have to lay a finger on someone to break their heart...but someone beat me to it, judging from your vibe...oh sorry. no such thing as 'vibes'...or xrays...or intelligent life on this planet in the form of hairless apes, judging from the oncoming ecological disasters heading our way in a few generations...

    Now here you lost me for a sec. Where did I say that x-rays are bogus? And why would I? Since it's obvious they exist and are being done on a daily basis all over the world. That "REALLY hurt" me part, is that like a threat? Is there mental anguish in my future? Or real physical pain? You know what, you tell me, you're the one with the knowledge.

    omdeelie wrote:
    i don't care about what you believe. i could write books about experiences you wouldn't believe...
    it's not important.
    the ONLY thing i see as important is the ecology issue... (...)

    but this is as much as i feel like explaining to anyone other than the person who asked to speak to a medium in the first place...
    i understand what you're asking...
    i may be able to explain a few things to you.

    Don't care? Don't post then. But you go into a huge three post long diatribe venting your own frustration. You draw conclusions and make assumptions about my character, my career, my background and my mental health while addressing subjects incoherently only to show your own agenda in the end (the ecology issue?) which was only mentioned by me in one of the stupid predictions of Sylvia Brown.

    As for you explaining anything, I must have missed that in what seemed like little more than a condescending attack on my views and character, or at least on what you think are my views and my character. I might be sarcastic (or mean for those who don't/can't read into that), but have I been unreasonable anywhere?

    I don't have trouble with the words you use, it's the incoherent style you use to put your thoughts on how the world works in your three posts. And AGAIN, you're making assumptions, this time about my level of comprehension.

    And I severely doubt that you understand what I'm asking, but I'll spell it out. I asked for proof and critical thinking from someone seemingly naive, that's what it pretty much boils down to.

    I wanted to go into everything you mentioned, but seeing I have written college papers in the past that were shorter than this post, just, nevermind. I do look forward however to your retort during the time you choose to be among us. I wonder what you can tell me about myself now...

    Edited on 08/02/2006 7:41am
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  • Avatar of omdeelie

    omdeelie

    [28]Aug 2, 2006
    • member since: 08/01/06
    • level: 1
    • rank: Weatherman
    • posts: 4

    that you enjoy 'crossing swords'...?

    touche...

    this wasn't my intention to begin with...

    what applies to you from what i said, does...

    what doesn't and has hurt your feelings i apologize for...

    i'm gone again till tomorrow...

    last visit...

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  • Avatar of Dr_Jan_Itor

    Dr_Jan_Itor

    [29]Aug 3, 2006
    • member since: 06/12/06
    • level: 12
    • rank: Evil Bert
    • posts: 987
    omdeelie wrote:

    that you enjoy 'crossing swords'...?

    touche...

    this wasn't my intention to begin with...

    what applies to you from what i said, does...

    what doesn't and has hurt your feelings i apologize for...

    i'm gone again till tomorrow...

    last visit...

    Well, that actually is a very accurate assumption.

    But if I may be so bold, what was your intention? I'm very interested...

    Also, no need for an apology. No feelings were hurt, my threshold for pain is not that low. The challenge was fun, even if I went a bit overboard on message length. I'd say, stick around for a while, you might find it entertaining.

    But we'll have to see...

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  • Avatar of silent_medium

    silent_medium

    [30]Aug 8, 2006
    • member since: 04/29/06
    • level: 14
    • rank: Autobot
    • posts: 449
    Dr_Jan_Itor wrote:

    oookeeeeee,

    First of all, if a little sarcasm is already rude, then feelings get hurt a little too quickly here, so come on. I wasn't even calling names or mocking anyone. Not everybody has to be protected that much already... Getting the name of the lead character right shouldn't be that hard after all, it's plastered all over this board. So sorry if what I said is perseved to be rude.

     For not having a imagination, don't jump to conclusions just yet. It's not about having imagination or not, it's about how far you want to take it. I believe that people have the right to do whatever they want to do, as long as it doesn't interfere with the rights of others. People can believe whatever they want to as long as they don't try to push it on others (not that you are doing that, just in general) and they don't expect NOT to be mocked about it. There's no right to not be mocked. Seriously, whether you believe in God, Santa, the Tooth fairy or a great big spaghetti monster in the sky, go ahead, but don't expect people to not try to rationalize said believe system with logic or scientifically proven arguments, or debunk that believe system at all.

    All that ranting aside, really, go to http://www.twopercentco.com/rants/archives/2005/03/medium_the_dubi_1.html and read the five parter. Yes, it's quite a read, but it should be educating.

    What I do have a problem without however, is twisted people who try to make a buck out of other people their misery. Look, I'm in no way claiming to know anything about your situation or implying anything about your self-proclaimed 'gift'. But fact is, many so-called mediums make boat loads of cash by ripping of people who have lost a family member, partner or close one in the past. Check out cold reading and see how easy it is to lead someone on, let alone when someone is really skilled in it. I've seen it, had it done to me, it can be quite convincing.

    Or check out http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,180681,00.html about Sylvia Brown, another one of those critically acclaimed 'mediums'.

    The thing is, most stuff in the world does make sense, even if we haven't exactly found out why. But to resort to some kind of woo woo meaning that's behind it doesn't help a lot, you can still see the effects of the stranglehold that organized religion has (had) on the world for almost 2000 years. But let's not get into that debate here.

    Believe what you want to believe, seriously, all I'm saying is, try to look at it a little more skeptically. That's what I (try) to do, and living without a belief in a divine omnipotent force and/or the supernatural, I'm still reasonably happy.

    But if I'm totally wrong on anything, please, tell me.


    i dont scam people. i am sorry if you got tricked in the past, but that doesnt mean that every medium is a fraud.
    if you believe in God and i didnt(i do believe), would i have the right to make a big deal about your beliefs. why are you having such a hard time with the medium issue?! it really isnt a big deal. just let it go.
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  • Avatar of Valerie6617

    Valerie6617

    [31]Aug 8, 2006
    • member since: 08/09/06
    • level: 1
    • rank: Weatherman
    • posts: 1

    As am I. I don't see them anymore... just hear them and see pictures.

    Is it just me or do they "talk" way too fast?

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  • Avatar of Dr_Jan_Itor

    Dr_Jan_Itor

    [32]Aug 9, 2006
    • member since: 06/12/06
    • level: 12
    • rank: Evil Bert
    • posts: 987

    silent_medium wrote:
    i dont scam people. i am sorry if you got tricked in the past, but that doesnt mean that every medium is a fraud. if you believe in God and i didnt(i do believe), would i have the right to make a big deal about your beliefs. why are you having such a hard time with the medium issue?! it really isnt a big deal. just let it go.

    Well, I started out by, admittedly a little sarcastically, saying some proof might be nice because of all the frauds and scammers that are out there, quickly adding (in bold) that I wasn't making any assumptions about you.

    In following posts I was told I did not have enough imagination, I was rude, I was acting like all I said was fact and I didn't know what I was talking about, and I'm even leaving out the three part diatribe from omdeelie.

    All I did was question self proclaimed abilities that have never in the history of mankind been proven to be true. The only real proof (anecdotes are not proof) up till now has shown that the persons involved were in fact frauds, I even brought sources to the table, but those were ignored or dismissed for no clear reason. It could be my sickening need to have the last word, but when I'm confronted with non-arguments, I have to reply.

    And yes, if I really strongly believed in an ancient fictional book that I let dictate my life, you'd be welcome to make a big deal out of it. If my faith would be strong enough, it wouldn't matter and I could bring arguments and sources to the table, that's how discussions work.

    And as long as there are so many frauds out there essentially stealing people their money by telling outright lies I do think it's a big deal. The whole "it never hurt anyone" excuse doesn't fly with me.

    See my last post in the thread http://www.tv.com/medium/show/22414/the-real-life-allison-dubois/topic/10506-231395/msgs.html?tag=board_topics;title;6 for more on that, and Dubois is even considered a genuine medium.

    I'm not discounting anything, but for now I'll deal with facts. I see way more downsides than upsides with organised religion/belief in supernatural phenomena...

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  • Avatar of nikkie_fikkie

    nikkie_fikkie

    [33]Aug 9, 2006
    • member since: 08/10/06
    • level: 15
    • rank: Ginsu Knife
    • posts: 255
    i dont know if i am a medium. i have watched the show and i have fallen in love with it. i myself have experienced many of the things described on the show (maybe not in the exact way but in some form or another). when i was younger i really didnt understand what was happening and sometimes i still dont understand why i see the things that i see. anyway i dont know if that makes me a medium or not all i know is that i can and do see the deceased. i just wanted to share this with you and let you know that i totally believe and it has been nice reading some of the other posts.
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  • Avatar of ErikTesla

    ErikTesla

    [34]Aug 16, 2006
    • member since: 08/16/06
    • level: 1
    • rank: Weatherman
    • posts: 1
    Dear mr Janitor, you should be aware of Quantum Physics and of M-Theory. After studying these for some years I´ve changed my view of these things. The way things interract in those levels.. It is facinating. And it opens the doors for many strange phenomenon.
    Can you tell me how same thing can be at two places at the same time?? Well, it can, and its scientifically proved with photons.

    ps. see as free documentary : http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html
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  • Avatar of dnglover25

    dnglover25

    [35]Aug 19, 2006
    • member since: 10/23/05
    • level: 11
    • rank: Red Shirted Lt.
    • posts: 350
    I see stuff in my dreams and then they happen. It started when i was 10 and now i have them more often
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  • Avatar of Dr_Jan_Itor

    Dr_Jan_Itor

    [36]Aug 20, 2006
    • member since: 06/12/06
    • level: 12
    • rank: Evil Bert
    • posts: 987

    ErikTesla wrote:
    Dear mr Janitor, you should be aware of Quantum Physics and of M-Theory. After studying these for some years I´ve changed my view of these things. The way things interract in those levels.. It is facinating. And it opens the doors for many strange phenomenon. Can you tell me how same thing can be at two places at the same time?? Well, it can, and its scientifically proved with photons.  

    Well, bringing Quantum Physics into the discussion will surely make it a lot simpler... First, what I don't get is, I asked for proof. Now multiple posters are asking me to explain subjects that they admittedly know more about than me and that not always have that much to do with what I asked for. And doesn't the burden of proof lay with the person making the claim in the first place?

    I'll use a simple analogy that doesn't cover all the bases but provides an accurate enough picture: you might have well asked me if I was aware of sports. The question is general enough for me to answer with yes. But would you then ask me about, let's say, the intrinsic rules of how scoring/judging works in figure skating, I wouldn't be able to tell you much. Sure, I get the gist of it, but I still am a layman on the subject.

    For Quantum Physics, an in-depth understanding of complex science requires years of study, an aptitude for the subject, and substantial prerequisite knowledge, just to name a few things. It just isn't possible to jump in with little to no understanding of the subject matter and expect to comprehend it.

    While Quantum Mechanics has been accepted in the general physics community, due to its accurate prediction of the physical behaviour of systems, it's also fairly controversial because of (as Wikipedia puts it) "the behaviour of microscopic objects described in quantum mechanics is very different from our everyday experience, which may provoke an incredulous reaction. Moreover, some of the consequences of quantum mechanics appear to be inconsistent with the consequences of other successful theories, such as Einstein's Theory of Relativity, especially general relativity."

    I'm not refuting anything here, just saying that using the scientific method doesn't always provide instant certifiable truths because we don't always have either the intelligence and/or technology to proclaim that. That's why it's important to keep doing experiments and tests, so we can increase knowledge. Personally speaking, what I don't get it is, with all the knowledge we have gained about this world, why people still choose to believe the Sylvia Browns, Allison Dubois' and John Edwards' that are around.

    As for the M-Theory. It can be applied to many situations but it isn't close to be being completed. At this point, the concept of entirely separate universes which have no measurable effect on our own universe is, admittedly, an unknowable concept; if we can't measure it, and we can't observe it either directly or indirectly, then it might as well not exist. But superstring theory is not spontaneously generated from a session of aimless philosophizing or an extraordinary misinterpretation of a mundane phenomenon. It is derived from mathematical equations which logically follow from observed phenomena. We may yet discover these predicted phenomena...or even discover something else which refutes the claims of superstring theorists. Essentially, though we are presently technologically incapable of testing superstring theorists' claims, they do produce testable claims — provided we achieve the level of technology necessary to test them! So this is still very, very much a theory. A very good one maybe, but we're still years away from answers.

    If I interpret your post correctly you're saying that because of the possibilities Quantum Physics and the M-Theory provide, the same should go for supernatural phenomena? That's like saying that the rules that apply to figure skating also apply to hockey. Sure, both 'ideas' (let's not get into semantics here) could be placed in the same realm, but they're still vastly different from each other.

    While Quantum Physics and the M-Theory have their base in science and are brought to us by, mostly, scholars and people who've studied the subject at hand for years and years, seeing the dead and communicating with them is, again mostly, done by scam artists who are out for money and fame and by delusional people who very possibly just have a chemical imbalance or some sort of psychological disorder (options that are waaaay more viable than their self proclaimed gifts).

    Thanks for the link by the way, I'm sure to check it out once I have some more time on my hands to properly invest time in it.

    Sources: Wikipedia and The Two Percent Company

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  • Avatar of BTVSForever

    BTVSForever

    [37]Aug 20, 2006
    • member since: 11/13/05
    • level: 11
    • rank: Red Shirted Lt.
    • posts: 598
    My Best Freind is a Medium she's never had prophetic dreams, but one time I talked to my best freind who killed herself in High school.
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  • Avatar of Dr_Jan_Itor

    Dr_Jan_Itor

    [38]Sep 1, 2006
    • member since: 06/12/06
    • level: 12
    • rank: Evil Bert
    • posts: 987

    Since she got mentioned a few times in this thread I thought it would be nice to share another instance where Sylvia Browne makes a complete arse of herself on the Montel show.

    Regarding her excuses, so she can look into the future up to the year 2100, but she can't locate a body if it's in water? She should come up with better material...

    Also a clear example of why the "it doesn't hurt anyone" excuse doesn't hold up. She makes that poor (obviously still grieving) woman doubt everything she knows! Seriously, why would people still give Browne airtime or money?

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  • Avatar of netgoddess

    netgoddess

    [39]Aug 27, 2009
    • member since: 12/01/08
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 694
    I wouldn't call myself a medium. I don't communicate with dead people. And while I have very vivid dreams - which I typically can remember in detail - they are not precognitive in nature except for one I had when I was 11.

    However I have had a ton of psychic experiences where I just know things, or can visualize things that happen exactly that way in the future. It is quite similar to the Allison's character in this show.

    I guess I would consider myself to have some precognative and empathic abilities. I tend to strongly pick up on other people's energy, to where I feel what they feel. And I have often times known a lot of things before it would happen.

    The one thing that really gets me panicked is when I know ahead of time when people I'm in contact with are going to die soon. It is quite burdensome actually and I really don't feel happy about knowing this sort of thing.

    Generally I think the majority of people who charge others for psychic readings and whatnot are full of it. When you experience a lot of precognition you can pretty much shape your own future any way you want to. You can see what paths forks in the road of your life will take if you choose one action vs. another action. I used to be extremely good at this, and used it to make a lot of money very quickly...not by doing "readings" for people, but by using my knowledge of the future to focus my business ventures and investments in lucrative directions.

    So, I am not sure about mediums. But I know for a fact that precognition and strong psychic connections between people do exist. These things have happened so frequently that I have not been able to brush this stuff off. I haven't embraced it that strongly either, because when you act on the knowledge you get the results you envision but they don't always work out exactly how you expected them to. I guess because wherever the info comes from, when it filters into you then you start reading into it based on your own biases and it is hard to look at it objectively enough to get a clear picture.

    The reason people don't take Randi up on his offer is most "professional psychics" are full of it, and the ones who aren't don't feel a need to chase fame. Certainly I have no interest in bringing attention to myself. I have already made over four million dollars in my career without losing my sense of identity or being condescending and flashy about it. I frankly don't care if people believe me or not. And money isn't that important really, life is about relationships and money is great for freedom, but materialism is pretty useless. As is fame IMO.
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  • Avatar of Lubbeelou

    Lubbeelou

    [40]Sep 7, 2009
    • member since: 05/15/09
    • level: 4
    • rank: Thighmaster
    • posts: 26
    I do kind of believe in the supernatural. I have never had any paranormal experiences before.

    The once I did dream about my grandad and my dog after they had passed, in this dream I realised that they were okay.
    I don't know whether it was 'real' or just a dream but it did comfort me in a way.
    It's hard to explain.
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