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Merlin Forums

BBC (ended 2012)

3x02 'The Tears of Uther Pendragon Part 2' discussion thread

  • Avatar of zeencat

    zeencat

    [101]Sep 22, 2010
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    Could it be like troy? The lower town could be outside the actual city wall. The city would need to grow. So the city could have two parts. the old city with it's wall and the cancel and the lower town outside the walls.
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    boom-moo

    [102]Sep 22, 2010
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    I don't know but if the lower town is outside the walls that means they fit all those 9,000 people in the castle grounds right? The CGI on Camelot hasn't been consistent. I'm talking out of memory here but I think that in The Beauty in the Beast (I think part 1), when Uther and Catrina are in the battlements looking at Camelot, it is a pretty big town. Other times, it's just a bunch of houses.

    I imagine Camelot having a lot of surrounding villages scattered in the kingdom, and I take it those were the ones where those 9,000 people came from. They seemed to seek refuge withing the castle grounds though, you can see them walking into the main square.

    The fact that they built up barricades in the lower town makes me think that there wasn't any other previous defense, and Cenred men don't seem to have any problem reaching the castle walls. The actual fighting doesn't start until they are face to face in the lower town.

    It is all off.
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    dpebbleson

    [103]Sep 22, 2010
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    Maybe the kept a lot of those soldiers inside the buildings. Also, we only saw the front view of the fortress of Camelot, there is probably a lot behind. The walls are long, so there might be people as well, both at the top of them and below.

    Cenred's attack came out of the blue, so they weren't prepared, and kingdom was in a disarray.

    What I didn't quite understand was that we were told in spoilers that Camelot was in war for a year. At the beginning of the episode we see a battlefield with soldiers, but nowhere is mention that it was a battle with Cenred. Cenred also doesn't mention he is in war with Camelot, and Arthur as well.

    Gaius asks Uther when is everything going to stop, but he that could many more things than war.
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    boom-moo

    [104]Sep 22, 2010
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    Ok, I was just rewatching and at 24:35 Cenred's men can be seen getting into the lower town through some huge doors. I take it that's the city wall, right outside the lower town. It would have made more sense to defend that wall first and then have the barricades as a second barrier but whatever. Everyone in the outlying villages plus lower town seek refuge inside the castle grounds.

    Cenred's army is absolutely massive compared to the men that line up in the square when Arthur checks on them at 20:52.

    dpebbleson wrote:
    What I didn't quite understand was that we were told in spoilers that Camelot was in war for a year. At the beginning of the episode we see a battlefield with soldiers, but nowhere is mention that it was a battle with Cenred. Cenred also doesn't mention he is in war with Camelot, and Arthur as well.
    I don't think it's a war but Camelot parties being killed once and again in foreign kingdoms as they search for Morgana all around.
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    zeencat

    [105]Sep 22, 2010
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    boom-moo wrote:
    Ok, I was just rewatching and at 24:35 Cenred's men can be seen getting into the lower town through some huge doors. I take it that's the city wall, right outside the lower town. It would have made more sense to defend that wall first and then have the barricades as a second barrier but whatever. Everyone in the outlying villages plus lower town seek refuge inside the castle grounds.

    Cenred's army is absolutely massive compared to the men that line up in the square when Arthur checks on them at 20:52.

    dpebbleson wrote:
    What I didn't quite understand was that we were told in spoilers that Camelot was in war for a year. At the beginning of the episode we see a battlefield with soldiers, but nowhere is mention that it was a battle with Cenred. Cenred also doesn't mention he is in war with Camelot, and Arthur as well.
    I don't think it's a war but Camelot parties being killed once and again in foreign kingdoms as they search for Morgana all around.


    I see the parts your talking about. But we can't be sure that Camelot doesn't have 10,000 men in it's army. I wonder why it's so small compared to Cenred's.
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    boom-moo

    [106]Sep 22, 2010
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    Those 20,000 men are not Cenred's army, he's gathered mercenaries for the attack. His army would probably be something like Camelot's.

    It might just be me, but I really don't see 10,000 men anywhere, not even close.
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  • Avatar of zeencat

    zeencat

    [107]Sep 22, 2010
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    Cenred's men didn't seem like it had 20K.
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    boom-moo

    [108]Sep 22, 2010
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    Lol, bottom line: numbers were off.

    A little something about ratings here
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  • Avatar of zeencat

    zeencat

    [109]Sep 22, 2010
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    I said the numbers were in the 5ish million or am I wrong?
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    boom-moo

    [110]Sep 22, 2010
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    Sorry, I can't remember. That's something I never pay attention to but since I know some of you are interested I posted the info.
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  • Avatar of zeencat

    zeencat

    [111]Sep 22, 2010
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    boom-moo wrote:
    Sorry, I can't remember. That's something I never pay attention to but since I know some of you are interested I posted the info.


    very thoughtful.
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    boom-moo

    [112]Sep 22, 2010
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    I don't pay attention because different sources have different ratings, so I simply don't trust the info.
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  • Avatar of ciry89

    ciry89

    [113]Sep 22, 2010
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    boom-moo wrote:
    I don't pay attention because different sources have different ratings, so I simply don't trust the info.
    Calculate the average of two ratings, you'll have the right one obviously kidding. I've always hated the rubbish about ratings: I think you are right. But unfortunately shows live thanks to ratings, so they are important...

    Edited on 09/22/2010 3:56pm
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    camelotkitty12

    [114]Sep 22, 2010
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    It was stated up above---that this episode didn't explainwhy, or that, Cenred was at war with Camelot...But, I have just rewatched The Poisoned Chalice" in season 1-- Uther told Arthur not to go after the mortause flower leaf, because the treaty he signed with Cenred " no longer holds...we are at war"The mortause flower was inside acave, in Cenred's kingdom. I just thot I wud point that out. But again, this episode did NOT explain why the two are at war, and I would have liked to have seen that.




    I'm thinking Camelot is big....that The upper town is inside the Castle walls.... the lower town isn't. that is what I think. So, they could fit upwards of 9000 ppl in there.


    Edited on 09/22/2010 9:36pm
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    boom-moo

    [115]Sep 23, 2010
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    camelotkitty12 wrote:
    Uther told Arthur not to go after the mortause flower leaf, because the treaty he signed with Cenred " no longer holds...we are at war"The mortause flower was inside acave, in Cenred's kingdom. I just thot I wud point that out. But again, this episode did NOT explain why the two are at war, and I would have liked to have seen that.
    I'm guessing that back then neighbouring kingdoms were at war constantly just because they were neighbouring and wanted to conquer and expand and become more powerful. So you couldn't show a sign of weakness or you'll have an army at your door. That's why peace treaties were so important. As Uther says in 2x10, the fact that 5 kings get together to try an agree on a peace treaty was a momentous ocasion. It was a time of constant struggle as I see it.
    camelotkitty12 wrote:
    I'm thinking Camelot is big....that The upper town is inside the Castle walls.... the lower town isn't. that is what I think. So, they could fit upwards of 9000 ppl in there.
    Peasants are seen seen walking into the main square carrying their belongings and seeking refuge inside the castle though. And the lower town is taken, next we see is Cenred's army trying to get into the castle. I think that the castle ground are supposed to be way bigger than they are. Maybe knowing the real dimensions of the filming location is what makes it look off to me.
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    ericsprau

    [116]Sep 23, 2010
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    Getting in late to the discussion here, but WOW. Really enjoyed this episode!

    I know Morgana is still new to magic but if I don't see a duel between her and Merlin before the season is over I will be pissed.
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  • Avatar of Connor91

    Connor91

    [117]Sep 23, 2010
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    I really like the first two eps of this series, they really are moving things ahead quite quickly on the Morgana/Merlin front aren't they. The whole Gwen/Arthur thing still drives me insane. I'm not anti their ship at all, I love the pairing, but the fact that their relationship constantly gets reset annoys me. I mean, are we really to believe that NOTHING happened between them in the last year?

    Either way, I'm loving Dark Morgana.
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    boom-moo

    [118]Sep 23, 2010
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    Connor91 wrote:
    are we really to believe that NOTHING happened between them in the last year?
    Apparently not. I somehow understand Gwen though, starting a relationship while hiding her feelings from everyone is not easy. She deserves to live her love like everybody else. Just think how great the first stages of a relationship are: one feels like shouting to the world that you are happy and in love and whatnot. I guess she hopes for a better future (one where Uther is no longer around or when Arthur becomes king and can take the reins of his life).
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    Connor91

    [119]Sep 23, 2010
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    boom-moo wrote:
    Connor91 wrote:
    are we really to believe that NOTHING happened between them in the last year?
    Apparently not. I somehow understand Gwen though, starting a relationship while hiding her feelings from everyone is not easy. She deserves to live her love like everybody else. Just think how great the first stages of a relationship are: one feels like shouting to the world that you are happy and in love and whatnot. I guess she hopes for a better future (one where Uther is no longer around or when Arthur becomes king and can take the reins of his life).
    I understand her feelings too, however it just annoys me that it hasn't even developed. I don't want them to suddenly get together, I just want to see progression in the story. Even if this progression is something like Gwen meeting a fellow male servant who she starts a relationship with or something. I mean what she said to Arthur in 3x02 is pretty much the exact same thing she said to Arthur in 2x02, its not even like in the year thats passed she's moved on to liking somebody else or anything. She's just recycling the same lines to him. And given how the series ended with them together, with Gaius and Merlin both aware of their feelings for each other I thought at the start of series 3 we'd at least see something to have happened. It just seems like the writers don't know what to do with their relationship, obviously they can't have them being properly together right now but that doesn't mean they can't have a story at all. I mean, look at Friends or something. Ross and Rachel were the archetype will they-wont they but their relationship still changed over time, even for the long periods when they weren't together.

    Edited on 09/23/2010 1:32pm
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    boom-moo

    [120]Sep 23, 2010
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    Connor91 wrote:
    I don't want them to suddenly get together, I just want to see progression in the story. Even if this progression is something like Gwen meeting a fellow male servant who she starts a relationship with or something.
    I wouldn't like that, I don't think people need to start a different relationship to realize who they really love.

    Connor91 wrote:
    And given how the series ended with them together, with Gaius and Merlin both aware of their feelings for each other I thought at the start of series 3 we'd at least see something to have happened.
    I was pretty sure we would have a reset to 2x10 after 2x13. The last scene in 2x13 was a very big step forward, too big to set up some angst again this season.

    Seeing that there is a reset I like it that nothing happened between them during the gap in between seasons year. The reset would have been too frustrating otherwise.
    Connor91 wrote:
    It just seems like the writers don't know what to do with their relationship, obviously they can't have them being properly together right now but that doesn't mean they can't have a story at all.
    I agree. Well, I think that the writers do know what to do with them (the "will they, wont they?" gets fans hooked, rooting hard and glued to the tv) but I agree there are ways to deal with a relationship even if they aren't (openly) together yet.
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