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BBC (ended 2012)

3x04 'Gwaine' discussion thread

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    boom-moo

    [41]Oct 2, 2010
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    I wonder why Arthur was wearing a red and gold (if I remember correctly) ribbon wrapped around his arm during the tourney. Because they are the colours of Camelot's crest? So the viewer could identify him easily during the melee?
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    dpebbleson

    [42]Oct 2, 2010
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    A very good episode. I posted a review, but here's another take on it, in a list!

    - Arthur and Merlin: no reset. Especially the "be careful" scene and the last scene. In the former Merlin reminds me of Gaius and his "But, Merlin you caaaan't!" (which one of my friends dislikes with intensity! : D) but then again, Gaius is a wise counselor, and so will Merlin become. Also in that scene Arthur spoke very seriously with Merlin, with full appreciation. And yeah, in the tavern he warned him of imminent danger. Last scene showed that Merlin can comment on quite private things freely. In fact, he can mock Arthur and Uther's retrograde hierarchy without being reprimanded. That's a step forward.

    - Gwaine is a likable character, something like Lancelot 2.0. They share a lot, except that Lancelot desired to be a knight, and even made effort to become one, while Gwaine shuns the opportunity. He prefers being knightly in his demeanor, not in his title, which is an element so precious to Uther.

    - From this episode we can foreshadow Arthur's kingdom to be. He is to marry Guinevere and to have knights of the Round Table: but his true love and his knights are among the common people and he will have to introduce new rules. The fact he admits his father was wrong opens up new possibilities - maybe he might change his position on magic as well. There's some hope there.

    - The scene when Arthur defends Gwaine on basis of Gwaine saving his life reminded me of that Season 1 episode when he did the same for Merlin.

    - I liked the comic relief of the very beginning. Especially the waitress, she's quite a handsome woman

    - Too little Morgana. Pity. But then again, this episode was mainly about knightly values, about goodness, friendship - a very optimistic episode, so I guess she wouldn't fit much into it.
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    XyFan

    [43]Oct 2, 2010
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    Heh in the beginning when Gwane got stabbed was pretty unlogical (?). He got stabbed at day, lost a lot of blood, then was put on Arthur's horse, then Arthur gave a long speech to the village people, and in the evening was put on bed and was treated by Gaius.

    Heh Lancelot and now this guy .. they are kind of similar too. Oh and Gwen is such a maneater.. Lancelot, Gwaine, Arthur..
    Like there isn't any other girls in Camelot. But yay, Merlin and Arthur got a new friend.



    Oh but the next episode looks great. Can't wait to see Merlin use more magic.

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    ellac4

    [44]Oct 2, 2010
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    Was any of the footage of Uther and Morgana at the melee new? As a few people have already commented, it looked like it was from the tournament scenes in "Once and Future Queen" from S2.

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    XyFan

    [45]Oct 2, 2010
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    a cheap way to give a same point. Actually i didn't recognise that at all
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    boom-moo

    [46]Oct 2, 2010
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    XyFan wrote:
    Oh and Gwen is such a maneater.. Lancelot, Gwaine, Arthur.. Like there isn't any other girls in Camelot.
    She didn't encourage Gwaine at all, quite on the contrary. And she is the one peasant who dresses more nicely. Gwaine could have perfectly flirted with any other girl (Arthur didn't witness the flirting scene after all) but I guess choosing Gwen was meant to be a clear sign that she is into Arthur and no one else.

    ellac4 wrote:

    Was any of the footage of Uther and Morgana at the melee new? As a few people have already commented, it looked like it was from the tournament scenes in "Once and Future Queen" from S2.

    A big part of it was from 2x02, but I dunno if all of it. Maybe some scenes that were filmed for 2x02 and didn't make it to the final cut were used in this one, because they have the same outfits and some of Uther's gestures and certainly some of the horse images do belong to 2x02.

    It is not new that they recycle scenes, but this time has been the more evident one.
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    ellac4

    [47]Oct 2, 2010
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    ellac4 wrote:
    Was any of the footage of Uther and Morgana at the melee new? As a few people have already commented, it looked like it was from the tournament scenes in "Once and Future Queen" from S2.


    boom-moo wrote:
    Maybe some scenes that were filmed for 2x02 and didn't make it to the final cut.


    That's what I'm thinking too.

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    texasislandr

    [48]Oct 2, 2010
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    camelotkitty12 wrote:

    ok I am watching this ep now-- i finally found it somewhere...but I just HAD to post this ----


    Arthur and Merlin walk into the tavern...Just WHERE have I seen that door before, with the same two black dots on the backside of the left door? huh? And that big fireplace....Ohdear. I'll post more later.



    Yeah I remember a post a while back saying the tavern would was filmed in the same set used as Gwen's house I think
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    boom-moo

    [49]Oct 2, 2010
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    texasislandr wrote:
    I remember a post a while back saying the tavern would was filmed in the same set used as Gwen's house I think
    That was the Inn in 2x13. Not sure if this one was filmed in Gwen's house set too.
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    leapinglucas

    [50]Oct 2, 2010
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    I think the series probably lost me last week. This is the first time in AGES that I haven't really been looking forward to the next ep of Merlin. I think my problem is that by the end of last season, Merlin was like reading my favourite book, and I couldn't wait to turn each page and read each new chapter. There was tension, there was progress. There was character-growth! I understand that these stand-alones and comic relief episodes are here to slow down the progress of the over-arching story, but I've got this horrible feeling that the producers spent their down-time between Seasons 2 and 3 having a Three Stooges DVD marathon and it's starting to bleed through into Merlin. Nyuk nyuk.


    So rather than look at this episode like characters in a story, I tried to just view it as 42 minutes of light entertainment. So I have some crazy notes, rather than opinions Don't be mad. These are the honest outpourings of my wounded heart


    - So these are the eps where the actors start to do their own horse-riding in the long shots? Okay, so the sitting at the trot needs a little work, but we did get a really good closeup of Colin's one-eyed horse. I seriously LOVE their horses.


    - The bar fight reminded me of some old 60's Star Trek episode, maybe the one with the Tribbles. Actually, the scene where the Bad-Guys-Of-The-Week (random, thick-necked, scar across the face etc.) stole the identity of the knights, that REALLY reminded me of the old Star Trek ep with the Salt Monster. That exact same pan from the actor on the ground to the same face on the actor standing above. Classic 60's television. Maybe they threw in a few Trek eps in between the Stooges?


    - And Gwaine, the whole ep actually, was very reminiscent of Lancelot. I kind of liked the actor, but everything felt like a retread here. Handsome dark-haired guy who is amazing with a sword arrives in Camelot to befriend Merlin, sweet-talk Gwen and save Arthur. Then he draws the wrath of Uther and is banished after everyone makes some longing comments about what a great knight he would have made.


    - So anyway, I am trying not to be too harsh - kiddies TV Karen! Kiddies TV! While Lancelot is convincingly sincere and earnest and noble, and Gwaine is rakish and hard-drinking, there was not enough differentiation between that eppy and this one to really engage my interest. Sort of same ep, insert different potential knight.


    - I'm not really a fan of what they're doing to Gwen, hence she was my least fave character, but in light of recent events she is making her way up the list rapidly! LOVED the brush off she gave Gwaine. Angel Coulby, sometimes I adore you.


    - LOVED Merlin's eye-roll behind Arthur as they were watching Sir whats-his-face (I'm not paying too much attention here) and was just starting to like them. Merlin's smiling, there is some good-natured banter and then "THWACK!" Out of nowhere! Arthur spears a metal goblet at the back of Merlin's head. Complete with the accompanying THUMP of the similarly masochistic Foley artist, so we are all in no doubt how much it hurts. Are KIDS WATCHING THIS?


    - Felt my soul drip out of my ears again. Went away, walked the dog. Came back later. Resumed episode. Resolved to sneak into Merlin producers home and steal Three Stooges boxed set.


    - After that I'm afraid, I think my brain just shut down again. Merlin spitting up his soup all over Gaius' face just reminded me of last week's slapstick antics. Half naked men -- though pretty --fail to woo me back to side of the righteous. My loyalty cannot be bought with these cheap favours. Arthur was my favourite character, but once I lose respect for him, he could be sashaying past me naked with condensed milk dripping all over his rippling torso whispering "lick me" and I wouldn't find him the least bit attractive.


    - And by the same token, every time Merlin pleaded faithfully, "Arthur's not LIKE that," a sinister voice in my brain kept chanting, "oh yes he IS!" Then we were back to Gaius telling Merlin, (paraphrasing again) you can't tell Arthur (ie. accuse other knights) without PROOF! I'm really starting to tire of these rehashed themes. That was fine back in episode 2 of season 1, but I need PROGRESS people.


    - And after everyone was doing a fine job of trying to defend Arthur's actions last week (paraphasing again) Arthur can't just contradict Uther right there in court, he did exactly that here -- offering up his word as his bond in defense of Gwaine, someone he has only just met. Which is lovely of him, really. But he couldn't do the same for Merlin last week? Merlin who has given his life for him over and over again. Show, I really don't understand you.


    - I got excited for a moment, when Merlin nicked his finger on the baddies' blade, and my fevered brain was hatching this idea that they would have Merlin's blood to apply to the enchanted crystals and would somehow acquire his powers -- or something. But hey, I sat up and started to take notice... but then. Er, no.


    Um, then stuff happens, and you can see Gwaine's pecs again, and Lancelot, I mean Gwaine, flirts with Gwen again and Arthur is jealous again. There is some heavy-handed rhapsodising about Gwaine and knights (is that THUNK you hear across the back of your head foreshadowing or just a well-aimed metal goblet?)


    -There was what might have been (in the before time) some really cute banter between Merlin and Arthur (except I can still remember the goblet, and the donkey prank and the death sentence and the bucket of filthy water!), Gwaine rides off into the sunset, and I flicked the set off before even waiting for the promos. I fear that my faith, once squandered, is difficult to regain.


    - But to leave with a positive -- I really REALLY love those French horses.


    Edited because I don't want to be seen in public talking about Angel's "Cobblies".

    Edited on 10/02/2010 6:33pm
    Edited 3 total times.
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  • Avatar of boom-moo

    boom-moo

    [51]Oct 2, 2010
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    leapinglucas wrote:
    So these are the eps where the actors start to do their own horse-riding in the long shots? Okay, so the sitting at the trot needs a little work, but we did get a really good closeup of Colin's one-eyed horse.
    I have my doubts the actors were riding in the long shots. Merlin is carrying a white blanket behind his saddle in the long shot that is nowhere to be seen in the close up. So I'm afraid the galloping guys were stunts. Their hair also seems longer to me in the long shots.

    leapinglucas wrote:
    And Gwaine, the whole ep actually, was very reminiscent of Lancelot.
    It was, but it didn't got in the way of me enjoying it.

    leapinglucas wrote:
    Out of nowhere! Arthur spears a metal goblet at the back of Merlin's head. Complete with the accompanying THUMP of the similarly masochistic Foley artist, so we are all in no doubt how much it hurts. Are KIDS WATCHING THIS?
    They are, and probably laughing at it. I don't share TPTB's sense of humour most of the time either.

    leapinglucas wrote:
    Arthur can't just contradict Uther right there in court, he did exactly that here -- offering up his word as his bond in defense of Gwaine, someone he has only just met. Which is lovely of him, really. But he couldn't do the same for Merlin last week? Merlin who has given his life for him over and over again.
    Sorcery and breaking the knights code don't rub Uther off in the same way, but I see your point.
    leapinglucas wrote:
    I got excited for a moment, when Merlin nicked his finger on the baddies' blade, and my fevered brain was hatching this idea that they would have Merlin's blood to apply to the enchanted crystals and would somehow acquire his powers -- or something.
    OMG, so did I!
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    leapinglucas

    [52]Oct 2, 2010
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    boom-moo wrote:
    leapinglucas wrote:
    Out of nowhere! Arthur spears a metal goblet at the back of Merlin's head. Complete with the accompanying THUMP of the similarly masochistic Foley artist, so we are all in no doubt how much it hurts. Are KIDS WATCHING THIS?
    They are, and probably laughing at it. I don't share TPTB's sense of humour most of the time either.


    I know! There's this show on here right in Sydney prime-time Saturday night TV, called Australia's Funniest Home Videos. Which I believe is a direct copy of the long-running America's Funniest Home Videos. And judging by how many years it has occupied that time slot, I am assuming it is considered successful and popular family entertainment.


    It consists of such chuckle-worthy antics as men getting thumped in the family jewels with baseball bats, kids on skateboards missing their dismount and landing on their head on concrete, and ol' grannies at weddings dancing up a storm before a back-breaking fall across a misplaced table of cake. Really, hysterical stuff. You can even win serious cash if you send in a home movie of your 4 year old removing your 2 year old's left eyeball with a pool cue.


    Sometimes, I am aghast that it is classed as entertainment, but I can see how many people do.


    Back on topic (sort of) Merlin should remove all heavy objects from Arthur's chambers and furnish his quarters entirely with soft pillows, nerf balls, marshmallows and satin sacks filled entirely with goose down. Tell him it's the latest fashion in Rome. I'm not fond of them trading blows -- metal for magic -- but I might just be persuaded to endure a pillow fight. With honey!

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    boom-moo

    [53]Oct 2, 2010
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    I think there's a version of that show everywhere and I'm cool with those who endured the pain after someone hit the wrong ball making some cash out of it. The only thing that gives me second hand embarrassment is when people film their babies/kids during traumatic situations instead of dropping the camera and run to console them.

    About the heavy objects in Arthur's room, a fun piece of trivia: if you watch in slo-mo the scene where the Goblin knocks Arthur unconscious with a vase, Bradley James is actually hit with a piece of leather. And in the scene where Arthur hits Merlin at the back of the head with a steel glass, Colin is actually hit with something softer
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    leapinglucas

    [54]Oct 2, 2010
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    Mmm, I guess it's the insidious "laugh track" and the cuts to the audience with tears of laughter rolling down their cheeks after some kid bounces off a trampoline onto his spine that I find really offputting. There's something quite... gladiatorial about it. Like we haven't come a long way in 2,000 years.


    As for Merlin, it's great that they aren't practising method acting, but the nice scene in the bar room brawl (complete with Western music) where Arthur shouts out to warn Merlin so that he won't be hit in the head with a chair, seems completely nullified by Arthur whacking Merlin in the head with a metal goblet. What's the point? That only Arthur is allowed to give Merlin concussion? Frankly, I think the chair would hurt less.


    In such a situation, Merlin seems completely powerless -- and I don't like to see Arthur, future-King, wield his superiority like a bully. Especially in a throw-away scene that adds NOTHING to the story. It was just gratuitous violence. Did no one watch this in the rushes and decide that it needed to be cut? It's not so much about each individual scene -- its the cumulative picture I'm getting about the direction of this relationship in season 3. And as the whole thing has been filmed, I am assuming we have a lot more Stooges antics to look forward to, because it seems this is the level of the producers' humour.


    Like I say, I really don't get it. And I don't like the idea that kids in classrooms around the world will start emulating their heroes by tossing weighty objects at each others' heads, thinking it's funny.

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    camelotkitty12

    [55]Oct 2, 2010
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    Ok I really liked this episode. No subtitles, tho!! (boo-hoo) No, the tavern set was exactly like ARTHUR'S chambers. the big fireplace, the 2 black dots on the left door, the arch, etc. Wasn't gwen's house...it was Arthur's chambers. I guess they couldn't afford to build a NEW set for the tavern. But last week, they DID have a set for THE RISING SUN... THAT kinda looked like Morgana's rooms. LOL



    Yeah...I thot it was odd...that Gwaine got stabbed in the LEG, I thought he'd gotten stabbed in his stomach, when that evil guy tried to knife him? Also---then Gwaine got treated by Gaius, but it was at NITE...So they must have been pretty far outside Camelot?What wereArthur and Merlin doing out there anyway? that's one thing I didn't get.



    Oh and Arthur wearing a red and gold scarf? He was wearing it cos that's the color of his house at Hogwarts!!! (Gryffindor) oops!!!!



    And that tournament!!! OHH that was different!! Why did they have that kind of tourney, does anyone know? I have never seen a tourney like that, and yes, I've been to a few!! I LOVED how Gwaine surfaced in the end of that. Totally unexpected!!



    Pretty good episode. I can't believe Gwen gave a little kiss to Gwaine at the end, and that Arthur did not see that? So thaT was jealous Arthur? heeheheheheehe I can't wait till next week.



    Edited on 10/02/2010 6:32pm
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    Asesia

    [56]Oct 2, 2010
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    So I finally found the episode to watch. And I loved it! It was hilarious and serious at the same time. The interaction between Arthur, Gwaine and Merlin was very well done. The comedy made me laugh out loud several times. I won't go into detail since everyone else seems to have said it all.

    My only complaint was the lack of Morgana, just cause i'm such a fan girl and this leaves me in a pickle for my weekly Morgana avatar. And no hilarious hats to replace that. But I guess this episode WAS all about the knights and as someone specified, she would not have fit. Hmm, i'll find something !

    Edited on 10/02/2010 7:23pm
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    ACDiNosey

    [57]Oct 3, 2010
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    leapinglucas wrote:

    boom-moo wrote:
    leapinglucas wrote:
    Out of nowhere! Arthur spears a metal goblet at the back of Merlin's head. Complete with the accompanying THUMP of the similarly masochistic Foley artist, so we are all in no doubt how much it hurts. Are KIDS WATCHING THIS?
    They are, and probably laughing at it. I don't share TPTB's sense of humour most of the time either.

    Back on topic (sort of) Merlin should remove all heavy objects from Arthur's chambers and furnish his quarters entirely with soft pillows, nerf balls, marshmallows and satin sacks filled entirely with goose down. Tell him it's the latest fashion in Rome. I'm not fond of them trading blows -- metal for magic -- but I might just be persuaded to endure a pillow fight. With honey!



    I'm starting to think that it might be Arthur's clumsy way to let Merlin know that, although they are friends, he is still the master and has the upper hand. Arthur, after all, is a royal prat, and, although a fair one, he may not realise how heavy-handed his attempts to get Merlin not to forget his stature are.
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    pcdsa

    [58]Oct 3, 2010
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    This episode was a mix-match of previous ones and though I enjoyed it, it wasn't exciting. Gwaine is a mix of Will from 1.10 and Lancelot from 1.05 but happy-go-lucky, which we haven't seen in a character before. As Merlin said he livens up the place so he should have been allowed to stay.


    leapinglucas wrote:
    And after everyone was doing a fine job of trying to defend Arthur's actions last week (paraphasing again) Arthur can't just contradict Uther right there in court, he did exactly that here -- offering up his word as his bond in defense of Gwaine, someone he has only just met. Which is lovely of him, really. But he couldn't do the same for Merlin last week? Merlin who has given his life for him over and over again. Show, I really don't understand you.


    I do see your point but I going to try to defend Arthur here . Uther did want to reward Gwaine for saving Arthur's life and so Arthur is reminding him of that. Uther has a shorter memory than Arthur... Uther has probably definitely forgotten that Merlin saved Arthur's life twice (1.01 and 1.04) and Arthur knows it so he knew it would not make a difference interceding for Merlin. Desperate orwhat???


    leapinglucas wrote:
    but the nice scene in the bar room brawl (complete with Western music) where Arthur shouts out to warn Merlin so that he won't be hit in the head with a chair, seems completely nullified by Arthur whacking Merlin in the head with a metal goblet. What's the point? That only Arthur is allowed to give Merlin concussion?


    Yes!!! It's like siblings who are horrible to one other but when an outsider tries to hurt one of them the others get all protective.


    Did anyone notice Gaius wearing glasses when he treated Merlin's wound? I haven't seen them before.

    Edited on 10/03/2010 3:34am
    Edited 3 total times.
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    Connor91

    [60]Oct 3, 2010
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    Gwaine is absolutely gorgeous lol. I thought the episode was good, although I was expecting one of the two thugs to turn into Merlin seeing as in theory they had his blood.

    Next episode looks exciting I love the Morgana-centric ones.
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