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Episode 3x05 discussion - 'The Crystal Cave'

  • Avatar of zeencat

    zeencat

    [81]Oct 9, 2010
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    boom-moo wrote:
    zeencat wrote:
    What about Arthur's comment on he would do anything for Morgana to see another sun rise. Even his claim to the throne. I know the M sisters don't know this but could it be a clue to a future event. Could this be a way to the throne for Morgana? Morgause gets Arthur to make a sacrafice to save Morgana. Unknown to him that they are both in it together.
    Hmm, I dunno. Kind of too repetitive. I don't think that Arthur would let Morgana take the throne instead of him under normal circumstances though. However way Morgana gets to sit at the throne crowned escapes me. I think it is usurped and Arthur is not cool about it.


    What about Uther dies or Morgause makes it appear Uther dies. Arthur is ready to assume the throne but Morgause fakes Morgana's illness. They are prying on Arthur's love of Morgana. Saying something like she will save Morgana's life if Arthur renounces his title. Unknown to Arthur that Morgana is actually his sister and in on it the whole time.
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    boom-moo

    [82]Oct 9, 2010
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    zeencat wrote:
    Saying something like she will save Morgana's life if Arthur renounces his title.
    That is kind of weird to me, I don't see a direct relationship between both.
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  • Avatar of zeencat

    zeencat

    [83]Oct 9, 2010
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    boom-moo wrote:
    zeencat wrote:
    Saying something like she will save Morgana's life if Arthur renounces his title.
    That is kind of weird to me, I don't see a direct relationship between both.


    I'm just speculating on what Arthur said about giving up his title to save Morgana and the vision we saw in the crystal. Clutching at straws. We've been pretty good at putting things together from the hints they have been dropping in previous episodes. I just keep thinking about that vision and how it may come to pass. It seems inevitable because the visions merlin saw for this episode played out exactly.
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    boom-moo

    [84]Oct 9, 2010
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    You have a point but I am not taking Arthur's words literally though. I just don't see it.
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  • Avatar of zeencat

    zeencat

    [85]Oct 9, 2010
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    boom-moo wrote:
    You have a point but I am not taking Arthur's words literally though. I just don't see it.


    I'm just speculating. I'm hoping it turns out differently. I love speculating but I prefer it when things don't turn out as we think or expect.
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    dpebbleson

    [86]Oct 9, 2010
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    Another selfishness and double-facedness of Uther: magic is okay if it's for his family - when he wants a son, when he wants to save his daughter's life.


    But not when a daughter wants to save her father's life - no, then she is a witch and must be burned.

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    boom-moo

    [87]Oct 9, 2010
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    Sometimes is nice though. See how many things we guessed:

    -Merlin making Morgana fall when she was trying to meet up with Morgause.
    -Merlin healing Morgana.
    -Uther willing to use magic to save her.
    -Morgana being Uther's daughter.
    -Morgana and Morgause not being in agreement because they want things done in different ways.
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    camelotkitty12

    [88]Oct 9, 2010
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    and here I was thinking that Morgause wud be Uther's daughter. Darn. I'm watching the ep now, but the vid keeps skipping and skipping. bit annoying. I haven't had time to get speakers.

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    boom-moo

    [89]Oct 9, 2010
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    I was rewatching and I really don't like the end. Uther doesn't question why his window broke and what is Morgana doing fully dressed that late at night. It feels too rushed.
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  • Avatar of zeencat

    zeencat

    [90]Oct 9, 2010
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    camelotkitty12 wrote:

    and here I was thinking that Morgause wud be Uther's daughter. Darn. I'm watching the ep now, but the vid keeps skipping and skipping. bit annoying. I haven't had time to get speakers.



    You can always ask in here if you need some quotes from part of the show.
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    dpebbleson

    [91]Oct 9, 2010
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    camelotkitty12 wrote:

    and here I was thinking that Morgause wud be Uther's daughter. Darn. I'm watching the ep now, but the vid keeps skipping and skipping. bit annoying. I haven't had time to get speakers.



    There is a repack available, search for it instead.
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    camelotkitty12

    [92]Oct 9, 2010
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    Thanks zeen, but I've got the subtitles printed out on paper. someone had the very wise idea to put them in my fav subtitle website, sooner than last week"s!! Yay!I'll get spkers tomorrow.


    So--- Merlin called Arthur a clotpole again. I was wondering if we'd hear that word again. I'm past the point where Merlin tells Gaius that the visions he saw are coming true-- starting with when Morgana was struggling with her horse. I Thot THAT scene was beautiful!! Also--- Arthur shows Merlin the first dager he bought for Morgana...which isn't the real one he saw in the vision. Then Merlin opens his mouth and says women like prettier things....and THEN Arthur gets the VISION dagger!!!



    Gwen asks, "who is King...Gremoaus?" That Is MORGAUSE spelled in scrambles!! How I LOVE scrambles!!!



    What is a repack? I usually wait for Zshare or megavideo-- those are the best. even tho I got updated flash player...my PC keeps saying download latest version, which I have.



    Edited on 10/09/2010 3:54pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of Asesia

    Asesia

    [93]Oct 9, 2010
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    I CAN'T EVEN BEGIN! DEAR GOD! EPIC! I'm just about to go watch again so I can get my thoughts in order but first random thoughts!


    -I saw a UFO today, And I liked it.
    -"How DAAARREE YOOU!" LOLOL
    -Morgana, Using magic! Hell to the yes!
    -I just want to hug Uther during his scene with Merlin!
    -F*** you Merlin! I joke I love you but >;l!!
    -Slashy M sisters
    -Morgause in a cloak
    -Epic window crash!


    -I'm trying to understand, after all thats happened, how am I still a Morgana/Merlin shipper? But I am lmao.



    Ill come back later when I get my thoughts in order! LOL Amazing!

    Edited on 10/09/2010 4:32pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of dpebbleson

    dpebbleson

    [94]Oct 9, 2010
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    camelotkitty12 wrote:

    Thanks zeen, but I've got the subtitles printed out on paper. someone had the very wise idea to put them in my fav subtitle website, sooner than last week"s!! Yay!I'll get spkers tomorrow.


    So--- Merlin called Arthur a clotpole again. I was wondering if we'd hear that word again. I'm past the point where Merlin tells Gaius that the visions he saw are coming true-- starting with when Morgana was struggling with her horse. I Thot THAT scene was beautiful!! Also--- Arthur shows Merlin the first dager he bought for Morgana...which isn't the real one he saw in the vision. Then Merlin opens his mouth and says women like prettier things....and THEN Arthur gets the VISION dagger!!!



    Gwen asks, "who is King...Gremoaus?" That Is MORGAUSE spelled in scrambles!! How I LOVE scrambles!!!



    What is a repack? I usually wait for Zshare or megavideo-- those are the best. even tho I got updated flash player...my PC keeps saying download latest version, which I have.





    I pmed you
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  • Avatar of ellac4

    ellac4

    [95]Oct 9, 2010
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    Asesia wrote:
    -I just want to hug Uther during his scene with Merlin!


    Ooh, tell me more!

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  • Avatar of Asesia

    Asesia

    [96]Oct 9, 2010
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    ellac4 wrote:

    Asesia wrote:
    -I just want to hug Uther during his scene with Merlin!


    Ooh, tell me more!



    His all like "when your child feels pain you feel it as well. WHY IS THIS HAPPENING!?" Then he starts to cry.
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  • Avatar of boom-moo

    boom-moo

    [97]Oct 9, 2010
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    Asesia wrote:
    F*** you Merlin! I joke I love you but!
    When? What do you mean?
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    Asesia

    [98]Oct 9, 2010
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    That was just a moment of rage cause Merlin was hurting my dear Morgana ;( lolol.
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  • Avatar of camelotkitty12

    camelotkitty12

    [99]Oct 9, 2010
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    dpebbleson wrote:



    I pmed you



    Thanks dpebbleson-- I got the message and did the thing. Thanks!!!


    When Arthur said he'd give up his life for M to see another sunrise, I think he was just being gallant, because He loves Morgana. Plus, he doesn't know M is his sister anyway.


    Great episode---I didn't much like the ending either---- Uther didn't question why his window broke, and Merlin being unconscious while a fire was burning...and my kitty's snoring.....

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  • Avatar of leapinglucas

    leapinglucas

    [100]Oct 9, 2010
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    Wow, this thread has really taken off this week! Excellent... and my Merlin Love is back. Thank goodness!

    To quickly get the slightly negative out of the way, before general giddiness...


    as for the revelation that Morgana is really Uther's daughter -- meh! It just felt like one big So What? to me. Yes, they can play on the lineage to the throne angle, but the M&M sisters were scheming to take over Camelot anyway. So, they just do it a different way. But more importantly, revealing that Morgana, who has been like a daughter to Uther and a sister to Arthur, is ACTUALLY a daughter to Uther and a sister to Arthur delivers ZERO impact emotionally. They've been telegraphing this from the start and I was kind of hoping they went somewhere more intriguing. Also, not comfortable with the idea that Morgana is even more loved and cherished by Uther because he's REALLY TWULY her daughter, rather than LIKE a daughter. That's just weird. Then again, I have an adopted brother who is just... my brother to me. So I may have a different slant on that. Genetic bonding I guess, Uther's ego maybe…pft.

    Oh well. However, I'm delighted to say this episode generally offered up the layered, ambiguous character journey that drew me to the series in the first place. And I'm happy to see they are exploring Arthur's more primitive, warrior proclivities in more ways than childish immaturity.

    The vision of the dagger is an example of this. To Arthur, the value of a dagger is in its "balance" and "feel", but Merlin, who has a more rounded appreciation of people outside of knights and battles, advises that to a woman, it's more about something pretty, with jewellery. So of course, Arthur (charmingly wanting to give a gift to his pseudo/actual sister that she will like) goes out and finds the prettiest, most bejewelled dagger he can -- saying several things about Arthur and moving the story along at the same time. 1. Arthur lacks sophistication when it comes to appreciating other people, but is willing to learn. 2. Arthur respects Merlin's opinion in areas he knows he is lacking. 3. Merlin's throwaway advise contributes to the inevitable sequence of events.

    It's this sort of layered story-telling that accomplishes so much more in the short span of episodic TV, and it is certainly much more effective than saying Arthur is a prat because … he throws things at Merlin's head. YAWN!

    They also effectively demonstrated in this episode that despite living (sonorous voice) "in a land of myth and a time of magic" Arthur generally shuns magic and superstition -- not out of fear or hatred like his father -- but simply because Arthur is a practical man and prefers to trust his own abilities. I loved the shudder than ran through Merlin when they passed within the boundaries of the Valley of the Kings -- but to Arthur, it was merely a great hiding place. If the Creative Team were ever concerned that revealing Merlin's magic to Arthur would undercut the drama because Merlin could easily magick them out of danger, here is their ready-made remedy. Regardless of Merlin's powers, Arthur's pride and ego would probably insist that they maintain the status quo, with Arthur continuing to want to meet danger with might rather than magic.

    I also loved the subtle shift in Merlin and Arthur's characterisation this week, with Arthur trailing helplessly after a preoccupied and surly Merlin, trying to get him to talk. Loved Merlin's jibes at Arthur -- from his lovingly running through their repertoire of insults when Arthur lay dying to the cheeky sequence about the prince and the frog. I did wonder that if he wanted to turn Arthur's annoying frog back into a prince, would he employ the traditional method? (Awww.) Sure, Arthur lobbed yet another volley at Merlin's head (thankfully just clothing this time) but their relationship is far more interesting when the power dynamic is mental rather than physical. Rather than Arthur bullying Merlin and Merlin ensorcelling Arthur, I prefer the way Merlin derailed Arthur's ego this week by simply and clearly being No Nonsense and In Charge. He's kinda goddamned attractive that way!

    Also loved the scene with the Dragon. There was a moment where, frustrated, Merlin simply ordered the Dragon to help him. The way Colin said, "I command you," and then gave this look, as if he was pulling on the mantle of power like a cloak -- and he really liked the way it felt. I love them exploring the seduction of Merlin's powers in this way -- much better than childish pranks with donkey spells.

    Was overjoyed to see the return of some of Morgana's lost personality this week -- although I'm a little weary of the Jekyl and Hyde reactions -- Look! I'm Good, but now I'm Bad again. Can't she just be a whole, well-rounded personality who is now intent on taking over Camelot, yet still has thoughts and feelings like a normal person?

    The cinematography was again beautiful. From that great opening sequence, to the scenes of the woods and the huge statues and friezes at the Fortress of Solitude… er, I mean The Crystal Cave -- it all looked spectacular. And they always shoot Katie so beautifully with her various capes billowing out behind her.

    Also love the role of sage that Gauis continues to play. I know to some he's duplicitous and self-serving, but he just gives me the impression of someone who has Seen It All. His advise to Merlin, as always, proved so prophetic, and Merlin, while again trying to do the right thing, just got all tangled up in the chicken and egg complexities of action and reaction, of causation and consequence. As Merlin is destined to become a great and wise prophet, these are invaluable lessons.

    Next week:

    Looks like a rerun of "Sweet Dreams" but with a different blond, giddy princess. And there's pratfalling. Please let me be wrong.

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