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BBC (ended 2012)

Episode 3x05 discussion - 'The Crystal Cave'

  • Avatar of boom-moo

    boom-moo

    [101]Oct 9, 2010
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    leapinglucas wrote:
    1. Arthur lacks sophistication when it comes to appreciating other people, but is willing to learn. 2. Arthur respects Merlin's opinion in areas he knows he is lacking. 3. Merlin's throwaway advise contributes to the inevitable sequence of events.
    I loved that he not only followed Merlin's advise but that he thanked him for it. He actually thanked and complimented Merlin several times during this episode and it felt great especially since Merlin cried for him.

    leapinglucas wrote:
    I did wonder that if he wanted to turn Arthur's annoying frog back into a prince, would he employ the traditional method? (Awww.)
    Lmao!
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  • Avatar of leapinglucas

    leapinglucas

    [102]Oct 9, 2010
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    Grrr, this thing won't edit properly:



    boom-moo said:


    I loved that he not only followed Merlin's advise but that he thanked him for it. He actually thanked and complimented Merlin several times during this episode and it felt great especially since Merlin cried for him.


    There you go! If Merlin wants Arthur to appreciate him more, he only has to play Hard to Get. Every time in the series that Merlin has been quiet, troubled, angry or pushed Arthur away, Arthur comes running like a wounded puppy. "Merlin, Merlin? Can you talk more, Merlin? I like you Merlin. Thank you Merlin. You did good, Merlin, er... Merlin? MERLIN?"


    Women have known this for years, of course.

    Edited on 10/09/2010 6:33pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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    boom-moo

    [103]Oct 9, 2010
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    leapinglucas wrote:
    Women have known this for years, of course.
    Rotflmao! Arthur just cares way more for Merlin than he is willing to admit or show under normal circumstances. He surely notices when he is quiet or chipper or down and comments on it. From our point of view as viewers it's easy to lose perpective on how hard and against the rules he's been brought under it is for Arthur to treat a servant like anything else than a useful and absolutely replaceable tool. Arthur is work in progress, but he is doing well, especially lately.
    Edited on 10/09/2010 6:42pm
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    Asesia

    [104]Oct 9, 2010
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    I just realized I will never be able to watch 1x12 the same ever again lolol. Morgana tried to kill her real father on the grave of the man who she thought was her father
    Uther had his own daughter chained and locked in the dungeon for speaking out of turn
    Then again were they thinking this far ahead? lmao

    Also this episode makes 1x06 look like Morgana had a common cold and no one cared lmao.

    I had a difficult time choosing my weekly morgana avatar, but in the end there was only one choice for me! lolol
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    camelotkitty12

    [105]Oct 9, 2010
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    I love your avatar for Morgana this week A!


    Just watched the episode again...this time was able to see it ALL. I loved the scene with Uther and Merlin. I just wish they could have hugged.....Like Arthur and Gwen did.....And the dragon arguing with Merlin-- "How DARE you abuse your power !!" the dragon bellowed. great scenes. Oh and that was certainly a very pretty crown on Morgana's head...but I'm wondering is that really going to happen? Poor Arthur-- now he really DOES have competition for the throne, even tho he doesn't know it yet. This just gets more interesting. It's getting curiouser and curiouser!!!

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    leapinglucas

    [106]Oct 9, 2010
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    ellac4 wrote:


    pcdsa wrote:
    ACDiNosey wrote:
    He said Morgana's name was Vivian. Surely nothing to do with Lady Vivian?!
    Vivian is Morgana's mother - Gorlois' wife.


    For those of us who haven't seen the episode, could you please tell us what he said about her?



    I wonder why they picked the name "Vivien"?


    In Arthurian legend, Vivien is usually "The Lady of the Lake", but in Merlin, The Lady of the Lake looks to be shaping up to be Freya. Vivien, as The Lady of the Lake, apart from giving Arthur Excaliber, was sometimes Merlin's lover, and sometimes a sinister figure, who enchants her lovers and imprisons Merlin in a Tree/Cave. Tennyson separated her into two distinct characters -- Vivianne: the villain and The Lady of the Lake: a benevolent love interest for Merlin.


    Vivien is often also known as Nimueh, but in Merlin we already had Nimueh, and although we know that Nimueh was once welcome in Camelot, I don't think Nimueh was in any way also Gorlois' wife, mooching around the castle, looking for love


    In The Mists of Avalon, where Morgan le Fay is written as a sympathetic character and Vivianne, Morgause, Morgaine and Igraine are all part of a powerful matriarchal family with a duty to protect their lineage from the encroachment of Christianity. The Lady of the Lake and the Merlin are offices rather than individual names -- like Chief of Police or Chairmain of the Board. In this version, Morgaine (Morgana) is the daughter of Gorlois and Igraine, and Arthur is the son of Uther and Igraine by a later marriage. Vivianne and Morgause are her aunts.


    LOL, so I guess all of this means nothing in terms of Merlin. Having already assigned roles to Nimueh and The Lady of the Lake, "Vivien" was an Arthurian character name they had left over, so they decided to make her Gorlois' wife and Morgana's mother.


    Or... it has deeper meaning.


    Or... they are just playing with our heads.


    Or... it was a popular name for girls back then


    Edited on 10/09/2010 7:21pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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    Asesia

    [107]Oct 10, 2010
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    Lol just watching for a third time. Gramouse, Morgause's man name. And YAY! For Banquet music! lmao


    I really really really want an audio commentary for this episode! With Katie, Colin and Anthony.


    Also I've run into an avatar problem. I have found the cutest katie mcgrath face! I have to decide between cute and powerful! lolol



    Edited on 10/09/2010 11:16pm
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    Wonder_

    [108]Oct 10, 2010
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    I'm curious about the promise that Uther apparently made to Morgana's father now. Didn't he say in 1x8 that he would break it without a second thought if she disobeyed him again? And did Morgana stay with Vivien and Gorlois after she was born, then? I wonder what Arthur would have said if he'd known Merlin had cried over him... would he have been embarrassed, touched, annoyed or say "No man is worth your tears?" Great character development for him so far this season!

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    Connor91

    [109]Oct 10, 2010
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    I was really hoping that Nimueh would be Morgana's mother lol

    When he said Vivien I was like nooooo.
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    XyFan

    [110]Oct 10, 2010
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    Ohhhh merlinn you are in deeeeep shhhheeet loved this episode.

    looks like the next episode is a troll stuff again.

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    pcdsa

    [111]Oct 10, 2010
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    boom-moo wrote:
    It was highly distressful to see how everyone was suffering deeply for her and how she only thought on killing Uther the second she was recovered.


    I understand her feelings completely. She is so angry that Uther will not acknowledge her. It has finally tipped her over to kill Uther herself.


    dpebbleson wrote:
    But Morgana can't really claim the throne. Not yet. And she thought of that even before Morgause, hence her asking Uther to show to the people how much she meant to him.


    I disagree. I think she wanted Uther to acknowledge her rather than thinking about being heir to the throne. This is the point she was making with Morgause.


    dpebbleson wrote:
    She can't claim the throne because she is illegitimate, it would have no legal power. She can say she's Uther's daughter as much as she can, the books say Gorlois and that's what matters. Not that it won't change, of course.


    Well in legends Mordred as Arthur's illegitimate son had a claim to the throne. Why not Morgana? But only if Arthur has been got rid of...


    zeencat wrote:
    So the scenes in the crystals were actually future events. Or were they a possible future that came true because Merlin knew about them. So does that mean that mean that anything seen in the crystals will come to pass no matter what.


    I think that they will all come true. Merlin tried to stop the future but it still happened in the way he was shown. So I'm not sure if Uther's scene was not him waking up with shock when the window shattered??? But I think Morgana will become queen. Maybe on Uther's death and the M sisters have Arthur captive. So Morgana becomes Queen by default until Merlin can rescue Arthur???


    Edited on 10/10/2010 3:36am
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    Asesia

    [113]Oct 10, 2010
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    This picture! Ahh StarWars references. It was bound to happen.


    http://i55.tinypic.com/ngoahu.png


    I did not! make that. I'm pretty sure http://felix-aeternus.livejournal.com/ did. You should check out their stuff if you get the time its amazing!

    Edited on 10/10/2010 3:51am
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    boom-moo

    [114]Oct 10, 2010
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    pcdsa wrote:
    I think that they will all come true. Merlin tried to stop the future but it still happened in the way he was shown. So I'm not sure if Uther's scene was not him waking up with shock when the window shattered???
    I think that they will all come true, same as the events witnessed in the crystal of Neahtid became true. However Uther's scene is not the same as when he jerks awake when the window shatters. Maybe they implied it was the same but it's certainly not the same footage, which is weird.
    Edited on 10/10/2010 3:51am
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    illegalferret

    [115]Oct 10, 2010
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    When i started watching this episode i was in a very light hearted mood having just watched Strictly Come Dancing () But this giggling mood lasted 'til Arthur got shot! The first few minutes were funny but then episode took on (a very good) dark slant. That Old man was good mysterious but not creepy and the visions Merlin saw (was that old Merlin?). I liked how what he saw effected his mood (even Arthur noticed), Arthur is buying less and less of Merlin's excuses (which has to be a good thing). Oh the scene between deathbed Arthur and Merlin were lovely so sweet but when he started to try and insult a reaction out of Arthur my heart went out to you Esther as you now have to list them all in the Merlin/Arthur thread


    Liked how Merlin kept seeing what he'd seen in the crystals and how he tried to stop Morgana, i didn't like her falling down the stairs (i hate seeing people getting seriously hurt or killed falling downstairs, it's a personal thing). It was sweet to see how much Guinevere and Arthur cared for Morgana (no topless knights this week but the return of the white shirt ) Ok i didn't think Uther was going to be Morgana's dad but to be honest i should have seen it coming! Interesting how Uther will let Gauis resort to magic to save Morgana but has never allowed him to do the same for Arthur. The scene between Uther and Merlin was heartbreakingly beautiful. (by this time 8.10pm all happy, giggly thoughts were gone, my house were watching in silence). Merlin ordering the dragon to help him was very good, and leaves me wondering if there will be any further consequences. It was also nice to see Morgause in a mediating role, trying to prevent Morgana from doing anything rash (though she did fail). Nice bit of Morgana magic too, though like the rest of you i think it was uncontrolled and not unlike Mordred's trick in 2x03. I liked how Merlin used magic to prevent her from killing Uther but i get the feeling his secret is not going to be hidden from her for too much longer if he carries on at this rate.


    This episode has given us some interesting food for thought not least who's older Morgana or Arthur, though as the boy he should get it. Overall i thought it was brilliant! Next week doesn't look too bad either, though slightly more child friendly!

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    dpebbleson

    [116]Oct 10, 2010
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    pcdsa wrote:

    I disagree. I think she wanted Uther to acknowledge her rather than thinking about being heir to the throne. This is the point she was making with Morgause.



    On a second thought I think you're probably right. She was probably tempting him to admit openly he was her father. Though there was something that made an impression that she also wanted to be proclaimed a princess.

    pcdsa wrote:


    Well in legends Mordred as Arthur's illegitimate son had a claim to the throne. Why not Morgana? But only if Arthur has been got rid of...



    I see your point, but I think that until Uther recognizes her as a legitimate daughter, she can't do that. Or at least until other people, like nobles and knights, find out that she is illegitimate so they start seeing her as Uther's blood and thus an heiress. If Uther died now, and Arthur was out of picture she still couldn't prove she was his daughter, unless she coerced Gaius into testifying to that fact.
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    pcdsa

    [117]Oct 10, 2010
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    boom-moo wrote:
    However Uther's scene is not the same as when he jerks awake when the window shatters. Maybe they implied it was the same but it's certainly not the same footage, which is weird.


    Yes it is certainly not the same scene, I've checked. Maybe it is when Uther dies and Morgana comes to the throne?


    illegalferret wrote:
    When i started watching this episode i was in a very light hearted mood having just watched Strictly Come Dancing ()


    Ditto


    illegalferret wrote:
    This episode has given us some interesting food for thought not least who's older Morgana or Arthur

    I'm sure Morgana is older. I don't know which episode it was mentioned. Esther will know.


    dpebbleson wrote:
    She was probably tempting him to admit openly he was her father. Though there was something that made an impression that she also wanted to be proclaimed a princess.


    I'll check this out on rewatch.


    dpebbleson wrote:
    I see your point, but I think that until Uther recognizes her as a legitimate daughter, she can't do that.


    I agree!

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    boom-moo

    [118]Oct 10, 2010
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    illegalferret wrote:
    Oh the scene between deathbed Arthur and Merlin were lovely so sweet but when he started to try and insult a reaction out of Arthur my heart went out to you Esther as you now have to list them all in the Merlin/Arthur thread
    You kidding? I love that!
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    pcdsa

    [119]Oct 10, 2010
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    I so loved Arthur comforting Guinevere. Did anyone notice how much closer Guinevere was trying to get to Arthur? She couldn't get enough of him...

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    boom-moo

    [120]Oct 10, 2010
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    pcdsa wrote:
    Maybe it is when Uther dies and Morgana comes to the throne?
    Oh my, I don't want Uther to die like that

    pcdsa wrote:
    I'm sure Morgana is older. I don't know which episode it was mentioned. Esther will know.
    In 1x12 it is mentioned that Morgana was 10 when Gorlois died, but I'm not sure it was mentioned she was older than Arthur. There's also a reference to Morgana beating Arthur at sword practice when they were kids, but I don't think their ages were mentioned either.

    dpebbleson wrote:
    She was probably tempting him to admit openly he was her father. Though there was something that made an impression that she also wanted to be proclaimed a princess.
    That's the impression I got.

    pcdsa wrote:

    I so loved Arthur comforting Guinevere. Did anyone notice how much closer Guinevere was trying to get to Arthur? She couldn't get enough of him...

    Atta girl
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