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BBC (ended 2012)

Episode 4x01 "The Darkest Hour" discussion thread.

  • Avatar of ACDiNosey

    ACDiNosey

    [101]Oct 2, 2011
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    I'll do my bits for the lists as soon as I rewatch, but for now, new list from me: Times Sir Leon said "sire": 3
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    boom-moo

    [102]Oct 2, 2011
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    Lol, good AC

    Episode 4x01 magic and spells:
    -Merlin removes a wine stain from Arthur's shirt (using a spell).
    -Morgana sacrifices Morgause and releases the Dorocha (using a spell).
    -Merlin can feel the magic done at the Isle of the Blessed. He is able to see the Cailleach.
    -Merlin lits a light on his palm (using a spell).
    -Merlin can listen to the screams of the Dorocha.
    -Merlin uses a spell against the Dorocha (even thought it doesn't work).
    -Merlin can listen to the screams of the Dorocha.
    -Merlin lights a fire (using a spell).
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    ShonaHerring

    [103]Oct 2, 2011
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    Pcdsa . Me too i dont think the ages are right i personaly think morgana is young than arthur and merlin , so merlin is about 70 arthur in is 40's and morgana in her late 30's?
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    boom-moo

    [104]Oct 2, 2011
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    i personaly think morgana is young than arthur and merlin She is older than Arthur and Merlin, that much has been confirmed by TPTB
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    fantasyfreak77

    [105]Oct 2, 2011
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    Really? I never thought that. It makes a lot more sense as to why Agravaine sides with her... she is the eldest child. But I really want to see his other motives for siding with her... does he blame Arthur for his sister's death?
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    boom-moo

    [106]Oct 2, 2011
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    I guess he blames Uther (let's not forget Uther also killed Agravaine's brother whom TPTB seem to have completely forget about) and by extension, Arthur. Having the throne removed from Uther's heir, the pursue of whom brought about Ygraine's death and given to Morgana, the child that Uther already had and neglected to acknowledge must be sweet revenge to Agravaine.
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    ShonaHerring

    [107]Oct 2, 2011
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    TPTB what does that mean , well then how can merlin look older than morgana i mean im kinda connected to the Pagans i know for deffinet that morgana is not as old as merlin all the teachings and stuff . but that might be in this show. And looking at the episodes i recall uther saying arthur was born at the end of the great purge and morgana after so....

    No bashing or anything.
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  • Avatar of boom-moo

    boom-moo

    [108]Oct 2, 2011
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    TPTB stands for The Powers That BE, aka the people behind the show

    well then how can merlin look older than morgana That's subjective, I guess.

    And looking at the episodes i recall uther saying arthur was born at the end of the great purge and morgana after so.... You got it wrong. Arthur was born before the Great Purge, it was actually Ygraine's death (soon after Arthur was born) which brought about the Great Purge.

    To the best of my knowledge it has never been said that Morgana was born after Arthur. When was that?
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    jaqtkd

    [109]Oct 2, 2011
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    I had always assumed Morgana was younger than Arthur just because she behaved like a spoiled teenage child and I didn't think Uther would have had an affair whilst Vivian was still alive but, I have now seen the interview where they said she was 'older for a very good reason' and so have slowly been getting my head around that strange (to me) idea ever since.


    As for Morgana and Merlin - I've always thought of him as younger than both Morgana and Arthur, but I don't think his knowledge or ability makes any difference to that fact. He was performing magic since before he could walk and has been educated by Gaius for what is now five years. No matter what age Morgana is she is way behind on him as far as magical education is concerned.


    As for Agravaine, I'm thinking that he's telling Morgana that he think she is the rightful heir whilst, all the time, assuming the throne will come to him. Arthur has just confirmed that and so I'm expecting some serious double crossing (no spoilers, all guesses from what I saw last night)

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    ShonaHerring

    [110]Oct 2, 2011
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    in an interview i saw quite recently but its an old one series 1-2 katie said that morgana was younger 1-2 years than arthur and merlin .
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    boom-moo

    [111]Oct 2, 2011
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    in an interview i saw quite recently but its an old one series 1-2 katie said that morgana was younger 1-2 years than arthur and merlin Then Katie was clueless or misinformed. It makes no sense story/consistency wise that she is younger than Arthur.
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  • Avatar of jaqtkd

    jaqtkd

    [112]Oct 2, 2011
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    Most of the actors have been very tight lipped about the ages - usually saying that all four are 'about the same age,' However, I did often refer to the time when Uther said to Morgana "you weren't around twenty years ago," in the first episode, I think. Which made many of us think he meant she was literally not born twenty years ago when Arthur was just about to turn twenty-one.


    I think perhaps Uther meant 'you weren't here and you weren't old enough ..." Anyway, I think that's when most people assumed she was younger. That and her behaviour, as I said. She always seemed a bit of a child - even compared to series 1 Arthur.


    Oh, and Katie is about three years older than Colin so I 'see' Morgana as looking older than Merlin but perhaps that's because I know of their real ages. The eldest of the four young leads is actually Angel!

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    ShonaHerring

    [113]Oct 2, 2011
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    Little scene from a episode in series 1 . Arthur :'you wearnt around 20 years ago, you dont know what its like'

    he says that to morgana proving that he is older
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    boom-moo

    [114]Oct 2, 2011
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    Well, it is also stated in the show that Uther took Morgana in when she was 11, so Morgana might as well have been living out of Camelot before that, 20 years before 1x01.
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  • Avatar of JJuna

    JJuna

    [115]Oct 2, 2011
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    I also would have liked to see more backstory for Agravaine. His motives at the moment are not clear at all. How did he come to be in league with Morgana? Why did she greet him with a knife in hand? She surely must have known who was coming to see her, so perhaps she just wanted to intimidate him. Considering what she did to the knights, why did she even need a knife to defend herself at all?


    I loved the humour in the opening kitchen scene, in the corridor with Lancelot and the smile on Arthur's lips after he has admonished Merlin for failing to say thank you. lol. In fact, the interactions between Merlin/Arthur and Merlin/Lancelot were the most pleasing aspect of the episode for me. It was good to see Gwen looking prettier, and the scenes she had with Arthur and Lancelot were both touching in very different ways.


    Does anyone else feel sorry for Uther? I found it hard to watch him so helpless and pitiful, even though you could argue he has come by his just desserts.

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    Tankim

    [116]Oct 2, 2011
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    boom-moo wrote:
    I guess he blames Uther (let's not forget Uther also killed Agravaine's brother whom TPTB seem to have completely forget about) and by extension, Arthur. Having the throne removed from Uther's heir, the pursue of whom brought about Ygraine's death and given to Morgana, the child that Uther already had and neglected to acknowledge must be sweet revenge to Agravaine.



    I also think she is older and maybe Uther had had an affair with Vivienne before he and Igraine were together. Can't think of a reason for him to betray Igraine when all he did after her death was just because of having lost her.


    Anyway, as for Agravaine, I don't believe he is seeking revenge for Igraine's death fbecause if he loved his sister, he wouldn't try to have Arthur, her son and his own nephew, killed. He also said that he gave a promise to Igraine to look after Arthur. In my opinion, he wants the throne and that's the only reason for his actions and his partnership with Morgana. Time will tell.


    I liked the episode although I don't like what has become of Uther. I hope he will be back on the horse soon because I think it is a bit too much to let him suffer that way all the time. Also, the music has changed, hasn't it? I could not recognize the familiar themes during the scenes, aside from the opening credits theme. Yes, it is darker and somehow different. Judging from this first episode, I liked the previous way of the show better.

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    boom-moo

    [117]Oct 2, 2011
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    I did feel sorry for Uther, JJuna. Despite it all, I really like his character.

    He also said that he gave a promise to Igraine to look after Arthur. I think that's his excuse to be close to Arthur, to have wormed his way inside the court. I don't think Uther would approve of that.
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    PenguinSuzie

    [118]Oct 2, 2011
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    "Considering what she did to the knights, why did she even need a knife to defend herself at all?" Maybe she just enjoys stabbing things.


    It's seems that Gwen is the oldest, then Morgana, then Arthur then Merlin as the youngest out of the four.


    I like to think Morgana was conceived outside of Uther's marriage to Igraine. But it seems he cheated on her. I'd like to think it was at least at a point where their relationship was really rocky, near the start after the happy period maybe. But that it got better. He certainly loved her a lot.


    With Uther's words to Arthur in S3 EP9 I think it was where (Gili EP) Uther said he fought to get the thrown or something along those lines. I like to think he inherited it but had to fight to really become King and to be crowned and accepted and nt have it pulled from under him.

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    boom-moo

    [119]Oct 2, 2011
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    I like to think Morgana was conceived outside of Uther's marriage to Igraine. But it seems he cheated on her. How so? He could have very well fathered Morgana before marrying Ygraine as Morgana seems to be some 2 or 3 years older than Arthur. I don't think he cheated on Ygraine, he sounds like he was very much in love with her. He actually confesses to Catrina that he has been with no other woman ever since Ygraine died, and he only accepted Catrina's advances on him when he had been enchanted.

    With Uther's words to Arthur in S3 EP9 I think it was where (Gili EP) Uther said he fought to get the thrown or something along those lines. I like to think he inherited it but had to fight to really become King and to be crowned and accepted and nt have it pulled from under him. He said that he conquered it by the sword, I don't think he inherited it at all.
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    PenguinSuzie

    [120]Oct 2, 2011
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    I know, I just prefer to think he inherited it .

    Just the way he talks about it. Ashamed of more than sleeping with his friends wife. Maybe I misinterpreted it but the way he told Gaus about it implied (to me) that it was while he was with Igraine, whether he was married to her at the time I don't know though, with them both seeking comfort that wasn't with their significant other. I always thought that implication was unfortunate given how much he loved her and how much her death messed him up. I know he hadn't been with anyone since she died though. He loved her very much .
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