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BBC (ended 2012)

Episode 4x02 "The Darkest Hour Part 2" discussion thread

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    PenguinSuzie

    [41]Oct 8, 2011
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    I really felt Morgana was missing Morgause, stuck alone in her hut.

    I agree with everyone that Bradley's performance was brilliant .
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    dpebbleson

    [42]Oct 8, 2011
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    Yeah, the performance of B.J. was good in this episode, and actually as someone pointed out, the character matured, and isn't petty so much as he used to be.

    About the Reveal, I forgot. Not that I expect it. But now the writers, having found no will to slowly lead us to the Reveal, have decided to knock out just about everyone around Merlin. Now it was Gawaine, who had to attack the Gatekeeper so he doesn't see Merlin's magic. Arthur, as per usual, doesn't wonder who knocked him out from behind.

    As Esther pointed out, and I'm starting to agree: okay, don't give us the Reveal, but stop knocking people out every time Merlin has to do magic. Esther, I hope I paraphrased your attitude correctly, if not, feel free to deny it

    As for Guinevere, what I wonder is how she got out. I also wonder why anyone, including Agravaine, would listen to her. And how come she knows what a whole council of learned men don't? Besides being a moral compass she's becoming the Clear Reason as well.
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    boom-moo

    [43]Oct 8, 2011
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    dpebbleson wrote:
    As Esther pointed out, and I'm starting to agree: okay, don't give us the Reveal, but stop knocking people out every time Merlin has to do magic. Esther, I hope I paraphrased your attitude correctly, if not, feel free to deny it
    That's pretty much it, go one way or the other but keep it believable.
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    XyFan

    [44]Oct 8, 2011
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    Aww Lancelot.. :'( Now Merlin doesn't have a buddy who knows about his secret anymore. (exept Gaius ofc)


    After the dragon said something about his loyalty i knew he's gonna die for merlin.. i just knew it! By the way i was wondering why only lancelot had a white horse during the part 1 and 2 episodes so it was quite obvious eh



    Oh and i think Morgana went to easy on Qwen.. why bother just to knock her out? Well anyways nothing bad happened


    Anyways everything else was soo great.. i loved all the scenes Seeing merlin use magic to secretly help Arthur and his crew out is just soo awesome.



    Oh and im so exited to see the next ep. Hehe old merlin x arthur = fun fun fun!

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    dpebbleson

    [45]Oct 8, 2011
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    boom-moo wrote:
    dpebbleson wrote:
    As Esther pointed out, and I'm starting to agree: okay, don't give us the Reveal, but stop knocking people out every time Merlin has to do magic. Esther, I hope I paraphrased your attitude correctly, if not, feel free to deny it
    That's pretty much it, go one way or the other but keep it believable.


    See, I'm becoming desperate
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    boom-moo

    [46]Oct 8, 2011
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    Hello XyFan, welcome to the board Previews aren't spoilers but we try to treat them like that for the sake of spoiler free people. I would appreciate it if you could do the same, thanks in advance.

    XyFan wrote:
    Oh and i think Morgana went to easy on Qwen.. why bother just to knock her out?
    Yeah me too, she was pretty vocal before about wanting her dead. Leaving the job to the Dorocha would not arise suspicions, as Gaius points out, but Morgana doesn't really need to pretend she had no hand on the issue right?
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    XyFan

    [47]Oct 8, 2011
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    boom-moo wrote:
    Hello XyFan, welcome to the board Previews aren't spoilers but we try to treat them like that for the sake of spoiler free people. I would appreciate it if you could do the same, thanks in advance.


    Hello and thank you. hehe to be honest i have read most of the threads in this forum but i have always been too lazy to write anything. But alright i'll try to stay spoiler free


    XyFan wrote:
    Oh and i think Morgana went to easy on Qwen.. why bother just to knock her out?
    Yeah me too, she was pretty vocal before about wanting her dead. Leaving the job to the Dorocha would not arise suspicions, as Gaius points out, but Morgana doesn't really need to pretend she had no hand on the issue right?[/QUOTE]


    Well yes. But now Qwen will know someone is targeting her. Double luck.


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    boom-moo

    [48]Oct 8, 2011
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    Thank you, I really appreciate it

    XyFan wrote:
    But now Qwen will know someone is targeting her. Double luck.
    Yeah, I guess that was the purpose of it.
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    merthurwen

    [49]Oct 8, 2011
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    BrightlyLit wrote:


    I'm not the only one who saw it this way, but I saw the Gwen and Arthur scene differently. A couple of important things happened at the handholding. First, she told him what she had done. She was being open and transparent about it, which will probably be important to the future. I was glad of that because she was also being open about the fact that she thought Lancelot had done it for her. The other thing is I loved Arthur's reaction; I felt it was perfect. His gentle hand on her shoulder and his face totally got to me in that scene. As someone said at another site, I like it that he gave her space to grieve. To me, these two are so connected they know just what the other needs. I don't necessarily see jealousy, I see him understanding. She is mourning the loss of someone who was once dear to her, maybe still is a bit, and he's gone because of a request she made that has him (Arthur) in the center of it. I think this was a HEAVY scene and done well. It's weird, but in all these years of Merlin, I think for me so far this is the most touching scene between them and for me shows the power of their love more than any other. Also, to me Bradley and Angel acted their butts off in this episode.


    And about the counsel scene, she came across to me as approaching the thing very respectfully, and yes very fearfully. It seems to me they have been establishing all along that she speaks up and speaks her mind sometimes more than she should, so we shouldn't be surprised that with stakes so high, and with this man who's not really the king, she would do it here. It's been her "role" all along and it was believable to me. If it had been me and I could make a difference, I would have done it. Whether we like it or not, this is Gwen's role in this version of the legend and I do believe it will get her in trouble even more than it already has. I like it a lot; I've been tired of people calling her Miss Goody Two Shoes.


    The one I'm having trouble processing in this is Uncle Aggy. I can't seem to grab hold of his character. And I'm feeling SUPER sorry for Morgana, living in that awful place all by herself. She seems so lonely and forlorn. I know what she's all about and all, but can't help feeling sorry for her.


    But I agree with everyone about Bradley's performance in this. He has really been shining so far. And Cabrera is quite believable too. So, we're to assume Lance isn't dead and is now in some spirit world or something, right?




    Like you I loved that scene. Gwen's character comes shining through yet again as she is completely honest with Arthur. I too love how connected they are. Last week we saw her sensing that he was in danger, this week we see him sensing that she needed space to grieve. Oh and please let's do comment their skills.



    The counsel scene, once again the acting was brilliant as you could see she was not confident in this role but felt it was the right thing to do. Her fervor grew a bit once she saw that they were receptive to what she was saying. Even after that scene she remained humble deferential towards Aggravaine.



    Like some others I'm having a bit of a problem with Gwaine's role. I love that he is still the one who's happy go lucky and tends to take things in his stride, but I don't want to see him become a buffoon.



    I loved the pace as to me it went well with the weight of the episode. Not everything can be portrayed in 45 minutes and naturally they left us to assume the conversations that took place regarding Merlin's healing etc. As I think we are to assume that Merlin survived because of his magic.



    We've all commended Aggraivane on the brilliance of his villainy but questioned why a brilliant villain would not want Gwen discovered murdered after she confronted him at counsel. I think it was to allay suspicion.



    I'm watching and rewatching the ep to try to figure out Lancelot. He did tell Merlin he is over Gwen yet, what was the reason above all that he had to sacrifice himself. Was it for the love of Camelot?



    I just give up on the whole Aggragana thing as Katie's acting is still to suspect for me to figure what she is trying to convey. She still smirks to convey evil intent and poses instead of emoting. I will admit she did better last week esp in her scenes with Morgause but even then she uses her voice more than expressions. But that's just my pet peeve, well that and all of the makeup they put on her. It's so distracting.

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    boom-moo

    [50]Oct 8, 2011
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    merthurwen wrote:
    I'm watching and rewatching the ep to try to figure out Lancelot. He did tell Merlin he is over Gwen yet, what was the reason above all that he had to sacrifice himself. Was it for the love of Camelot?
    "You have to have a reason. Something you care about. Something that's more important than anything" I think it was for Gwen.
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    JJuna

    [51]Oct 8, 2011
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    merthurwen wrote:
    I'm watching and rewatching the ep to try to figure out Lancelot. He did tell Merlin he is over Gwen yet, what was the reason above all that he had to sacrifice himself. Was it for the love of Camelot?


    I didn't really interpret that scene as him saying he was over her. It seemed more a case that he had put her out of his mind because Arthur was a better man and had made her happy. His expression suggested to me that he found the discussion painful. He was determined to fulfil his vow, but in the final scene it was him or Merlin. I doubt that thoughts of Camelot would even have entered his head at such a point. BM, I'm not sure it was just for Gwen. Merlin was his closest friend, and bearing in mind what the dragon had said, I think he did equally for him.


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    boom-moo

    [52]Oct 8, 2011
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    I think he was bearing in mind Merlin, Arthur and Camelot, but I also think that Gwen weighted just as much as those things in the scales.
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    merthurwen

    [53]Oct 8, 2011
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    Thanks ladies. I've watched it yet again and I think you are right. He was not saying he was over her but had let the dream go.



    Oh and Guys No conversation this week about how insensitive Merlin was when he basically agreed with Lance about Arthur being the better man Just for the sake of consistency

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    smilegreen

    [54]Oct 8, 2011
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    Just one question - did Merlin knowingly summon the Villea? Or was it just coincidence that his hand fell in the water and they felt his presence?

    I agree with a lot of the comments put forward. Oh Gwaine!! What is up with your characterisation? He kept wanting to save his own skin e.g. not wanting to be at the rear when the knights were moving around. =( Maybe it's to emphasise how his old lifestlye was basically looking out for himself and his mindset is really not fit for knight material. Still... =(

    I actually found the Agravaine/Gwen scene kinda disturbing. LOL meet me at my chambers tonight.. Contextually, would it be ok for a romantic relationship with such an age gap? I however am grossed out about it. I do hope it was more of a 'I'm really tempted to kill you' rather than 'I'm really tempted by you' vibe they're trying to establish. I'm also interested in how much Morgana has confided in Agravaine. She only told him about Gwen's future this episode. How long exactly have they been in the cahoots? Honestly, if she was smarter, I thought she might have confided in him about any lingering suspicion of Gaius she might have had after Goblin's Gold. Not to mention he's kinda close to Uther. So now Gaius and Merlin do have cause for suspicion. I do love how that scene played out though; with Merlin being there and realising the potential danger and enemies Emrys would have in the future.
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    legend-dreamer

    [55]Oct 8, 2011
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    smilegreen wrote:
    Just one question - did Merlin knowingly summon the Villea? Or was it just coincidence that his hand fell in the water and they felt his presence?

    I think it was (as you said)when his hand fell in the water and the Villea sensed who he was (Emrys) and that he had magic.
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    smilegreen

    [56]Oct 8, 2011
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    Mmm ok then. Also I forgot to mention when Morgana was lurking in the castle it reminded me of when Merlin used to to visit the dragon. Then I got all excited that Morgana would meet the dragon but then face-palmed when I remembered he wasn't even there anymore. Also lol at her failed attempt of killing Gwen. I don't know it's fan-service for the boys but I'm really not liking the push-up bra/corset Angel \has to wear. I think Katie is wearing one too but Angel's one... ugh..
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    boom-moo

    [57]Oct 8, 2011
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    legend-dreamer wrote:
    I think it was (as you said)when his hand fell in the water and the Villea sensed who he was (Emrys) and that he had magic.
    I think so.

    smilegreen wrote:
    I actually found the Agravaine/Gwen scene kinda disturbing. LOL meet me at my chambers tonight.. Contextually, would it be ok for a romantic relationship with such an age gap? I however am grossed out about it. I do hope it was more of a 'I'm really tempted to kill you' rather than 'I'm really tempted by you' vibe they're trying to establish.
    I only got the 'I'm really tempted to kill you' vibe. I guess I subconsciously didn't want to consider the other possibility as an option

    Lol, I think the push up is overdone too, I commented so in the 4x01 thread. But as long as females keep getting several random male bodyporns, I guess males are entitled to the same treat
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    PenguinSuzie

    [58]Oct 8, 2011
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    @smilegreen It's the age gap that grosses you out? I think the forceful, manipulative undertone makes the idea of it going that way, creepier.
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    smilegreen

    [59]Oct 8, 2011
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    Oh no, not just the age gap. I think it's more the idea of her being in a relationship with Arthur and him being Arthur's uncle that kinda creates an incestuous/lusting predator vibe. If Agravaine manages to get Morgana on the throne and she decides to let him stay in her court, then he'll have heaps of power over Gwen. Thus a creepy 'force myself on you' situation where Morgana would want to sadistically torture Gwen. Uther's mentioned 'the temptations of serving girls' before so yeah.. just the potential of this one-sided relationship disturbs me. I think I was reading on Wikipedia that something similar happened where Arthur left Mordred in charge while he went to some battle and then Mordred went and married Guinevere. Thus where I got the idea I guess.. So I do agree with your opinion of their being that forceful and manipulative undertone. Really creepy indeed.
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    fenerliyim

    [60]Oct 8, 2011
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    lol lancelot must make too much money per episode or something, they always find a way to get rid of him till the end of the season or something.
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