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BBC (ended 2012)

Episode 4x05 "His Father's Son" discussion thread

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    boom-moo

    [1]Oct 28, 2011
    • member since: 02/05/07
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    Please post your opinions/comments/discussion topics on episode 4x05 "His Father's Son" here.

    -Spoilers are not allowed.
    -Bashing ships/characters is not allowed.
    -Discussion is welcome, arguing is not.
    -Trolls won't be fed, I love my cookies.
    -Be respecful, keep it cool.



    Thank you

    (As per usual, I'll open a discussion thread for every new episode every Friday and keep it locked until Saturday. Past experience shows that comments posted before the episode airs tend to spoil the episode for spoiler free people and also, episode discussion threads that are opened days before their airing date tend to end up buried and reopened by different users which leads to confusion and clutter. Any comments regarding this episode should be done in the Spoilers thread until the episode has aired. Thank you.)

    _____________________

    4x05 Masterlists:

    Episode 4x05 magic and spells:
    -Morgana breaks a door in Queen Annis' castle open (using her mind).
    -Morgana enchants Arthur's sword (using a spell).
    .Morgana makes the enchantment on Arthur's sword start working (using her mind)
    -Merlin freezes Derian's sword half blow (using his mind).
    -Merlin makes Derian's sword fall from his hands (using a spell).

    Episode 4x05 RIP list:
    -One of Caerleon's men (the one that takes the arrow)?
    -Caerleon.

    Episode 4x05 Lives Saved list:
    -Arthur and his men save Merlin's life when he is trapped on the narrow pass and threatened by Caerleon and his men?
    -Arthur saves Merlin's life by asking Queen Annis not to kill him.
    -Merlin saves Arthur's life several times during his fight with Derian.
    -Arthur saves his men's lives by fighting in single combat to avoid a war.
    -Arthur saves Derian's life by sparing him in the single combat fight.

    What Arthur calls Merlin:
    -Simple minded fool, old friend.

    What Merlin calls Arthur:
    -Cabbage-head.

    Times Sir Leon says "Sire":
    -2.

    Liar, liar:
    -Agravaine lies to Arthur about having to do whatever it takes to secure his authority on his kingdom.
    -Agravaine telling Arthur he should rule with his head, not his heart.
    -Arthur lies to Gwen about not having been talked into breaking up with her.

    Arthur's attributes to being the great king of legend:
    -He leads the attack on Caerleon and his men.
    -He thinks he lacks his father's wisdom and conviction and tries to follow his example and do what he would have done for the good of the kingdom.
    -He wants to be worthy of his father's name.
    -He appreciates Agravaine's support and counsel (even if unaware that it is ill intentioned).
    -He believes the kingdom and its people are his sole responsibility and he puts his wants and needs aside because his duty is to his people alone. He is aware he will be judged for his actions and he wants to do the best he can.
    -He does not question the loyalty of his men nor does he take it for granted but he does wonder if he deserves it.
    -He cares about his men and the decision to send them into battle was not made lightly.
    -He realizes he was wrong to execute Caerleon and that he brought war upon Camelot himself. -He secretly visits Queen Annis and places himself at her mercy. He addresses her with respect and admits his shameful mistake to her, labelling himself a coward and unjust. He wants to call off the war by invoking the right of single combat.
    -He begs Queen Annis for Merlin's life.
    -He appreciates Merlin's loyalty despite putting his life at risk.
    -Arthur is sure that Camelot can win the battle but he is not willing to pay the price of bloodshed.
    -He believes he has struck a fair deal with Queen Annis and is committed to stand by it.
    -He offers himself as the representative of his land in the fight as the only just and honourable choice. He knows in his heart that he has made the right decision.
    -He makes arrangements for Gwen to know that he is sorry in case he cannot tell her so himself.
    -He calls Merlin 'old friend'.
    -He spares Derian's life in the combat because he seeks peace not victory.
    -He admits that Merlin was right with regards to Caerleon's execution.
    -He learns from his mistake and apologizes to Gwen. He is not afraid of being seen with those who he cares for, regardless of their standing.
    -He thinks that a good king should respect the traditions of the past but also be true to himself.

    Arthur is knocked unconscious or prevented from knowing about Merlin's magic:
    -He is busy fighting Derian when Merlin meddles with the fight.

    What Arthur says about magic:
    -Nothing.

    Potions made by Gaius:
    -None.

    Gaius's smacks:
    -None.

    'I have faith Arthur will be a great king' statements:
    - Agravaine says (even if ill-intentionally) that there isn't a citizen of Camelot who would not lay down their life for Arthur.
    -Merlin says he's always shown mercy in battle and never sought to humiliate his enemy.
    -Agravaine says (even if ill-intentionally) that Arthur's resolve has earned the respect of both the council and the people alike and that his father would have been proud of him.
    -Gwen says that he has a good heart and that by being true to it he'll be the king he wants to be.
    -Merlin says that as their king, Arthur holds himself responsible if anything were to happen to any of his men.
    -Elyan says that there isn't a man among Arthur's men who would not die for him. He adds that the Knights of Camelot have made their pledge and hence they wear the Pendragon crest with pride. They are aware that fighting in Arthur's name means fighting for freedom and justice.
    -Merlin says that no one could care more for their men than Arthur and that they know that he would never send them into battle lightly. He adds that if there's ever a way out of a battle Arthur would take it. -Merlin says that no one is prepared to sacrifice more for the sake of Camelot than Arthur. He always makes his decisions in the best interests of the kingdom. -Morgana says that Arthur will always risk his own life before those of his men.
    -Queen Annis says that Arthur is a great warrior.
    -Queen Annis says that there is something about Arthur that gives her hope for the future. She believes to have misjudged him.

    Merlin and Great Dragon meetings:
    -None.

    Great Dragon's riddles:
    -None.

    Morgana's premonitory dreams:
    -None.

    Morgana's smirks of doom:
    -None.

    Agravaine's advances on Morgana:
    -None.

    Arthur and Gwen moments:
    -She waits for Arthur in his room and welcomes him with a hug. He asks her if she has missed him and she says she has indeed. She cannot stop smiling and cannot let go of his hand.
    -Arthur does not care that Gwen is a servant because he wants to marry for love.
    -After he is persuaded to set aside his feeling for Gwen for the best interest of the kingdom he vents his frustration over a punch bag.
    -Gwen is happy to receive Arthur's night visit to her home and is sad that he won't be staying for long. She takes the news that their relationship is not appropriate now that he is king calmly despite guessing that he must have been talked into it. She shows strength of mind by advising him to be true to his heart. She is deeply hurt and sheds a tear when he leaves.
    -Gwen is worried about Arthur's wellbeing when he leaves for battle. She knows that as king the fate of Camelot rests on his shoulders but he is not alone.
    -Arthur makes arrangements for Gwen to know that he has realized his mistake and that he is sorry in case he dies in battle. He trusts Merlin to give her his ring as a symbol of it.
    -He offers Gwen some wild flowers that he picked on his way back home as an apology. She shows a lot of dignity by saying that she understands why things have to be the way they are. However he replies that respecting the traditions of the past should not be an obstacle to being true to himself. He wants to do as he sees fit and does not care about being seen with whom he cares for. They kiss, both smile and then kiss again.

    Chestporns/Bodyporns:
    -Arthur's red and white chest revealing shirts-porn.
    -Arthur's footporn.

    Dungeon time:
    -None.

    Fashion:

    Merlin:
    -Red padded shirt, chainmail and Camelot cloak (day 1).
    -Blue shirt, red scarf and brown jacket with brown underjacket.
    -Blue shirt, red scarf and brown jacket with brown underjacket (day 2).
    -Blue shirt, blue scarf and maroon jacket (day 3).
    -Red shirt, blue scarf and brown jacket with brown underjacket (day 4).
    -Red shirt, blue scarf and brown jacket with brown underjacket (day 5).
    -Red shirt, blue scarf and brown jacket with brown underjacket (day 6).

    Arthur:
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail with voiders (arm armour piece) and hauberk (chest armour piece) (day 1).
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail.
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail with voiders (arm armour piece) and hauberk (chest armour piece) (day 2).
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail with Camelot cloak.
    -Red shirt.
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail.
    -Blue shirt with brown coat.
    -Red shirt (day 3).
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail.
    -Blue shirt.
    -Blue shirt with brown coat.
    -Blue shirt with brown coat and blue cloak.
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail with voiders (arm armour piece) and hauberk (chest armour piece) and Camelot cloak (day 4).
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail with voiders (arm armour piece) and hauberk (chest armour piece).
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail.
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail with brownish cloak.
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail.
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail (day 5).
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail with voiders (arm armour piece) and hauberk (chest armour piece) (day 6).
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail with voiders (arm armour piece) and hauberk (chest armour piece) and Camelot cloak.
    -White shirt and brown pajama pants (day 7).

    Morgana:
    -Black dress and black cloak (day 3).
    -Black dress and black cloak (day 5).
    -Black dress and black cloak (day 6).

    Gwen:
    -Blue dress with white underdress (day 2).
    -Purple dress with white underdress and white shawl (day 3).
    -Blue dress with white underdress (day 4).
    -Blue dress with white underdress (day 7).

    Gaius:
    -Green robe (day 1).
    -Maroon robe (day 4).

    Edited on 07/18/2012 7:36am
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of ACDiNosey

    ACDiNosey

    [2]Oct 29, 2011
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    I enjoyed this episode. I don't think it was one of the best, but it certainly was insightful. It's shown how Arthur has grown and is growing and adapting in his new role as king. I felt sorry for him but also for Merlin, as both seemed really isolated in their respective roles. And, special message for Julia: there was no full moon Actually, there was no moon at all
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    pcdsa

    [3]Oct 29, 2011
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    Grrr! Angry with Agraviaine for manipulating Arthur. Angry with Arthur for allowing himself to be manipulated.

    But Arthur came through beautifully in the end and he made peace with Queen Annis (who was wonderful) and Guinevere. YAY!

    Brilliant!
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  • Avatar of Connor91

    Connor91

    [4]Oct 29, 2011
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    I enjoyed the episode, it was an improvement on last week but I just feel like the series isn't maintaining the high standard it started with. The first 3 episodes are easily amongst my favourite Merlin episodes, they had pushed the show & storyline forward so much and created such a tense atmosphere for the start of the series.

    And then..we have two episodes in a row which are...enjoyable, but could easily have been episodes in series 2 or 3 in terms of quality and how far they push the story forward. Nothing that we saw today really changed anything, it simply reaffirmed what we have known about Arthur for years. The whole Gwen subplot was also completely pointless given that it was resolved in about 8 minutes. That said, I did really love Annis. I hope she is in the series again, its nice to see a strong and noble woman. She's pretty much the first.
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    boom-moo

    [5]Oct 29, 2011
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    Loved Arthur calling Merlin 'old friend' (squee!), loved continuity (Gorlois, Merlin's blue cloak), liked Arthur learning to be his own man the hard way but not sure I like Queen Annis being all cool about Arthur after he's killed her husband. Once thing is to honour their agreement (I can understand she wasn't all the willing to go into battle since she probably doesn't have any experience in the matter) and to reckon Arthur's ability to show regret and his will to right wrongs but another is to praise Arthur's excellencies while Caerleon's body is still warm. I wish we would have seen a bit more of the Queen to see where she stands and understand her better.

    What I surely loved was Queen Annis telling Morgana that she is more Uther's daughter (as opposed to Gorlois') than she realizes.
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    Connor91

    [6]Oct 29, 2011
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    boom-moo wrote:
    Loved Arthur calling Merlin 'old friend' (squee!), loved continuity (Gorlois, Merlin's blue cloak), liked Arthur learning to be his own man the hard way but not sure I like Queen Annis being all cool about Arthur after he's killed her husband. Once thing is to honour their agreement (I can understand she wasn't all the willing to go into battle since she probably doesn't have any experience in the matter) and to reckon Arthur's ability to show regret and his will to right wrongs but another is to praise Arthur's excellencies while Caerleon's body is still warm. I wish we would have seen a bit more of the Queen to see where she stands and understand her better.

    What I surely loved was Queen Annis telling Morgana that she is more Uther's daughter (as opposed to Gorlois') than she realizes.


    I do agree with the bit about Annis but I think the writers made her get over Caerleon's death so quickly to contrast her and Arthur against Morgana's bitterness. It did seem a bit weird that she forgave Arthur so quickly but then she didn't seem to be that upset when she saw his body anyway haha.

    I did love Annis as a character though, I really hope we see her again. I love Morgana but it was nice to see someone letting her know whats what lol.
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  • Avatar of ACDiNosey

    ACDiNosey

    [7]Oct 29, 2011
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    Well, I thought Arthur keeping Merlin's blue cloak was a bit strange, surely, Arthur could have his own old cloak But gosh isn't Bradley beautiful in this cloak!!!
    I like Arthur accepting Merlin's insult (cabbage-head) gracefully given what he had called his servant previously...

    I think Queen Annis was very wise indeed, and could see what Arthur was trying to achieve without judging him as being weak for doing the "bravest" thing by letting the ugly champion live.

    I know I've said that for several episodes in S4 so far, but Bradley's acting has really gone leaps and bounds this season and he is a pleasure to watch
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    merthurwen

    [8]Oct 29, 2011
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    I really loved the ep. I can finally see how Arthur will be able to unite Albion. His character was stained but we still got to see him grow. He repeated his 1x11 mistake (none of us move forward without stepping back) but he saw his error much quicker and owned it. Very realistic portrayal of a young man finding his way. I could be falling in love with Gwen's man.



    I loved how Gwen met Arthur's decision. Thank you writers for not giving us an angry scorned woman. Props to Morgana (or I should say Katie) as her acting was strong this week, I didn't see Katie bleed through at all and Agravaine



    Merlin, wow. I may be in love with him as well. I'm truly impressed with how he and Gwen truly do love Arthur. Even as he pushed them away they both put aside personal hurt to council him. Again this show really does model healthy friendship and love, does an old cynics heart proud. Enough rambling...I love MERLIN.

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    boom-moo

    [9]Oct 29, 2011
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    Connor91 wrote:
    I do agree with the bit about Annis but I think the writers made her get over Caerleon's death so quickly to contrast her and Arthur against Morgana's bitterness. It did seem a bit weird that she forgave Arthur so quickly but then she didn't seem to be that upset when she saw his body anyway haha.
    I know, it almost seemed as she was relieved to have gotten rid of him Lol

    I loved her character too, that's why I would have liked to know a bit more about her, what her position was about battling other kingdoms and if she agreed with Caerleon's decisiosn. Going by spoilers (that I won't mention in case she is back), I have a feeling that at least one scene regarding that was cut.
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  • Avatar of ACDiNosey

    ACDiNosey

    [10]Oct 29, 2011
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    I know I'm an old softie, but I loved the knights listening to Merlin when he told them Arthur felt responsible for them and their collective pep talk, delivered by the king of pep talk and official spokeman for the knights, Elyan. Gosh this guy has a way with words...

    Loved how one of the flowers sort of fell down/folded when Arthur tried to hand them to Gwen...

    And lol, for once, a guard of Camelot saw and stopped an intruder, only to find it was Arthur... Maybe they can only see innofensive attackers then
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    legend-dreamer

    [11]Oct 29, 2011
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    Good episode. Loved the reaffirmations of Arthur and Merlin's friendship. As ACDinosey said they are both are feeling isolated in their roles (servant and King). So glad Arthur stayed true to who he was in the end and found another solution to a war with Queen Annis and also followed his heart about Guinevere. Less listening to aggravating Agravaine and more to wise Merlin!!! Smile


    Thought it looked like Morgana maybe noticed magic was being used to save Arthur when he was fighting Annis's champion.Undecided

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    boom-moo

    [12]Oct 29, 2011
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    legend-dreamer wrote:

    Thought it looked like Morgana maybe noticed magic was being used to save Arthur when he was fighting Annis's champion.Undecided

    I don't think she did although as per usual it was rather Luckily they were watching from far away

    ACDiNosey wrote:
    Loved how one of the flowers sort of fell down/folded when Arthur tried to hand them to Gwen...

    And lol, for once, a guard of Camelot saw and stopped an intruder, only to find it was Arthur... Maybe they can only see innofensive attackers then
    Had to laugh at both those things indeed. Didn't it seem as if Gwen was waiting for a visit, shawl and all?
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  • Avatar of ACDiNosey

    ACDiNosey

    [13]Oct 29, 2011
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    Morgana's plot to "kill" Arthur was a bit thin, though... I thought she had done something to the sword so that Arthur would be hurt everytime he hurt the champion. Surely that would have been a quicker and better way to kill him... Making a sword heavy is hardly life-threatening... The girl is so bitter (as pointed by Queen Annis) and desperate to get back to the throne of Camelot that she becomes reckless... I agree with merthurwen though, probably one of Katie's strongest performances...
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  • Avatar of Connor91

    Connor91

    [14]Oct 29, 2011
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    legend-dreamer wrote:

    Thought it looked like Morgana maybe noticed magic was being used to save Arthur when he was fighting Annis's champion.Undecided



    I was more amused by the fact that she was stood on the battlefield, right next to Annis, and neither Merlin, the knights nor Arthur realised lol.
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  • Avatar of boom-moo

    boom-moo

    [15]Oct 29, 2011
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    Yeah, it was pretty of a plot. Either Morgana's schemes or Morgana's magic (or both) aren't really that evil/powerful blah blah as they've sold her.
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    jaqtkd

    [16]Oct 29, 2011
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    jaqtkd wrote:


    Chayiana wrote:


    Do you want to know why Merlin is having this weird sort of weapon?


    Watch this!




    Oh, this is great. Merlin's been set to bait them - he's looking around when he first arrives, frustrated he can't seen Arthur and the others.


    "Trapped, are we?" the guy says and you can just see the look on Merlin's face starting to change - so I expect he replies ...



    "Yes, you are."



    Hey, not the exact words but ... close! Smile

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    boom-moo

    [17]Oct 29, 2011
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    Very close indeed! We should be in TPTB's payroll
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    BrightlyLit

    [18]Oct 29, 2011
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    I loved Gwen's reaction to the hurt Arthur dished out and that she so readily forgave. I'm a fan of theirs, but for some weird reason it was nice to see Arthur being the one to bring in some tension in the relationship. He's always been so perfectly loyal without doubting his devotion to her. It's realistic in any relationship that a person will have doubts at some point, particularly in his situation. My source for live streaming gave up on me near the end, so I've missed the little makeup scene which I heard had a nice amount of heat. Can't wait to see it later.


    I agree about Morgana. Katie was great and what a delight to see a woman other than Gwen portrayed as noble and courageous. Loved the queen and like everyone else, I hope she'll be back and that she and Arthur can be allies. I also am liking the role they're giving Elyan. I'm a bit surprised at that; I thought it would be Leon more, but Elyan is fitting the bill perfectly.


    Dear sweet Merlin. I loved him in this. Love how he and Gwen showed how no matter how Arthur treats them, their loyalty remains strong. As I said, I think this is the first time Gwen has gotten to show her true colors of faithfulness under his unfair treatment. I also liked that there was no real silliness with Arthur and Merlin. I'm not a fan of that, always preferring the growing moments of sweet friendship.


    Aggy has become a believable villain and as such has duly procured our distrust, dislike and scorn.

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    arwyn-t

    [19]Oct 29, 2011
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    I can't quite put my finger on why I am not thrilled with this episode. I liked it, but something feels... odd.


    I can't understand Arthur being influenced by Agravaine, I can understand him trying to be like Uther. But... it felt odd. Too odd.


    The script was not bad. The acting was not bad. What is it then that I feel off? Hmmm... I had this feeling with "Aithusa" as well, something not quite merlin-ish. Erm... Well... With all due respect, I will attempt to say that the direction of the new Alex Pillai is that what leaves something to be desired. He lacks giving the scenes the proper emotional depth somehow. I mean, take Arthur and Merlin's interaction in 2x13 and then 4x05, both times Arthur preparing for battle. In 4x05, something is missing and it's not the actors not being able to act. I think it's the director not capturing all that the script and the actors offer.


    Or maybe I'm just tired and I need to re-watch this tomorrow with a clearer head.

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  • Avatar of XyFan

    XyFan

    [20]Oct 29, 2011
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    Everyone has their ups and downs. Not the best episode, but still decent. Arthur, listen to your servant, not your uncle.. not! grr, poor Merlin. I loved the scene with swords and eyes. hehe. I liked what Qwen said to Arthur after he ditched her. ahh, poor Qwen.

    Btw what happened to the baby dragon? :O did the great dragon took it? I thought Merlin was going to raise it. Aww.

    And Gaius didn't have much part in it as usual.. poor Gaius. Did he only have 1 line?

    Oh and I'm reaalllyyy looking forward to the next episode.. Oh my .. oh my...
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