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BBC (ended 2012)

Episode 4x05 "His Father's Son" discussion thread

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    PenguinSuzie

    [162]Nov 4, 2011
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    Here: "Generally I don't think it's because she calls Arthur out on things, that can make her character's direction disappointing." It sounds wrong, what I meant was that it's NOT just that she calls him out that's disappointing. It sounds like I was saying that's what generally dissapointing about her character's current direction. But it's not that at all.
    Also here: "About A/G, I king of."
    I meant kind not king

    These lists you guys do are great. When edit is working, do you usually combine all the lists for an episode and put them in the 1st post of the episode's thread?

    Also looking at the clothes list, does Agravaine wear the same outfit every EP, because I'm not sure I've noticed.
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    boom-moo

    [163]Nov 4, 2011
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    PenguinSuzie wrote:
    These lists you guys do are great. When edit is working, do you usually combine all the lists for an episode and put them in the 1st post of the episode's thread?
    Exactly. You can find them for the first three seasons (except 3x12-3x13) at the end of the very first post of the rewatching threads.

    PenguinSuzie wrote:
    Also looking at the clothes list, does Agravaine wear the same outfit every EP, because I'm not sure I've noticed.
    I'm only doing main cast
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  • Avatar of PenguinSuzie

    PenguinSuzie

    [164]Nov 4, 2011
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    Oh I don't mean you should do a clothes list for him. I'm curious though, as outside of the cloak and the chainmail, is his usual black outfit the same? I think I'll go check at some point simply for the hell of it . I'll ask these kinds of questions in the Q&A thread though.
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    boom-moo

    [165]Nov 4, 2011
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    He wears black, dark grey and blue and I think he has a couple of jackets but I'm just talking out of memory.

    What Arthur says about magic:
    -Nothing.

    Potions made by Gaius:
    -None.

    Gaius's smacks:
    -None.
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    PenguinSuzie

    [166]Nov 4, 2011
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    Right, thanks .
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    boom-moo

    [168]Nov 4, 2011
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    How about the lies told on this one, Wonder_?

    Merlin and Great Dragon meetings:
    -None.

    Great Dragon's riddles:
    -None.
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    pcdsa

    [169]Nov 5, 2011
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    I've done some editing, deleted anything repetitious. Also don't think statement 4 should be added.

    Arthur's attributes to being the great king of legend:
    -He leads the attack on Caerleon and his men.
    -He thinks he lacks his father's wisdom and conviction and tries to follow his example and do what he would have done for the good of the kingdom.
    -He wants to be worthy of his father's name.
    -He gives Caerleon a second chance to walk away with his life. He pushes for a treaty that would seal a truce rather than an execution. He aims for peace. BUT HE KNOWS HE WILL NOT SIGN!!!!:
    -He appreciates Agravaine's support and counsel (even if unaware that it is ill intentioned).
    -He believes the kingdom and its people are his sole responsibility and he puts his wants and needs aside because his duty is to his people alone. He is aware he will be judged for his actions and he wants to do the best he can.
    -He does not question the loyalty of his men nor does he take it for granted but he does wonder if he deserves it.
    -He cares about his men and the decision to send them into battle was not made lightly.
    -He realizes he was wrong to execute Caerleon and that he brought war upon Camelot himself. -He secretly visits Queen Annis and places himself at her mercy. He addresses her with respect and admits his shameful mistake to her, labelling himself a coward and unjust. He wants to call off the war by invoking the right of single combat.
    -He begs Queen Annis for Merlin's life.
    -He appreciates Merlin's loyalty despite putting his life at risk.
    -Arthur is sure that Camelot can win the battle but he is not willing to pay the price of bloodshed.
    -He believes he has struck a fair deal with Queen Annis and is committed to stand by it.
    -He offers himself as the representative of his land in the fight as the only just and honourable choice. He knows in his heart that he has made the right decision.
    -He makes arrangements for Gwen to know that he is sorry in case he cannot tell her so himself.
    -He calls Merlin 'old friend'.
    -He spares Derian's life in the combat because he seeks peace not victory.
    -He admits that Merlin was right with regards to Caerleon's execution.
    -He learns from his mistake and apologizes to Gwen. He is not afraid of being seen with those who he cares for, regardless of their standing.
    -He thinks that a good king should respect the traditions of the past but also be true to himself.

    Arthur and Gwen moments::
    -She waits for Arthur in his room and welcomes him with a hug. He asks her if she has missed him and she says she has indeed. She cannot stop smiling and cannot let go of his hand.
    -Arthur does not care that Gwen is a servant because he wants to marry for love.
    -After he is persuaded to set aside his feeling for Gwen for the best interest of the kingdom he vents his frustration over a punch bag.
    -Gwen is happy to receive Arthur's night visit to her home and is sad that he won't be staying for long. She takes the news that their relationship is not appropriate now that he is king calmly despite guessing that he must have been talked into it. She shows strength of mind by advising him to be true to his heart. She is deeply hurt and sheds a tear when he leaves.
    -Gwen is worried about Arthur's wellbeing when he leaves for battle. She knows that as king the fate of Camelot rests on his shoulders but he is not alone.
    -Arthur makes arrangements for Gwen to know that he has realized his mistake and that he is sorry in case he dies in battle. He trusts Merlin to give her his ring as a symbol of it.
    -He offers Gwen some wild flowers that he picked on his way back home as an apology. She shows a lot of dignity by saying that she understands why things have to be the way they are. However he replies that respecting the traditions of the past should not be an obstacle to being true to himself. He wants to do as he sees fit and does not care about being seen with whom he cares for. They kiss, both smile and then kiss again.
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    boom-moo

    [171]Nov 5, 2011
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    pcdsa wrote:
    I've done some editing, deleted anything repetitious.
    Much appreciated as always

    About this:
    Arthur's attributes to being the great king of legend:
    -He gives Caerleon a second chance to walk away with his life. He pushes for a treaty that would seal a truce rather than an execution. He aims for peace. BUT HE KNOWS HE WILL NOT SIGN!!!!

    I think that one never knows what one might comply with when the blade is hanging above your neck. I was actually surprised when Caerleon knelt down and asked to make it quick. Maybe Arthur was holding on to some hope there?

    Anyway, those are your lists so you have the final word
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  • Avatar of pcdsa

    pcdsa

    [172]Nov 5, 2011
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    Yes there is always hope but I think he knew in his heart that Caerleon would not sign. So I think it would be better to leave it out.
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    boom-moo

    [173]Nov 5, 2011
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    It doesn't go then

    4x05 Masterlists:

    Episode 4x54 magic and spells:
    -Morgana breaks a door in Queen Annis' castle open (using her mind).
    -Morgana enchants Arthur's sword (using a spell).
    .Morgana makes the enchantment on Arthur's sword start working (using her mind)
    -Merlin freezes Derian's sword half blow (using his mind).
    -Merlin makes Derian's sword fall from his hands (using a spell).

    Episode 4x05 RIP list:
    -One of Caerleon's men (the one that takes the arrow)?
    -Caerleon.

    Episode 4x05 Lives Saved list:
    -Arthur and his men save Merlin's life when he is trapped on the narrow pass and threatened by Caerleon and his men?
    -Arthur saves Merlin's life by asking Queen Annis not to kill him.
    -Merlin saves Arthur's life several times during his fight with Derian.
    -Arthur saves his men's lives by fighting in single combat to avoid a war.
    -Arthur saves Derian's life by sparing him in the single combat fight.

    What Arthur calls Merlin:
    - Simple minded fool, old friend.

    What Merlin calls Arthur:
    - Cabbage-head.

    Times Sir Leon says "Sire":
    -1.

    Liar, liar:
    -

    Arthur's attributes to being the great king of legend:
    -He leads the attack on Caerleon and his men.
    -He thinks he lacks his father's wisdom and conviction and tries to follow his example and do what he would have done for the good of the kingdom.
    -He wants to be worthy of his father's name.
    -He appreciates Agravaine's support and counsel (even if unaware that it is ill intentioned).
    -He believes the kingdom and its people are his sole responsibility and he puts his wants and needs aside because his duty is to his people alone. He is aware he will be judged for his actions and he wants to do the best he can.
    -He does not question the loyalty of his men nor does he take it for granted but he does wonder if he deserves it.
    -He cares about his men and the decision to send them into battle was not made lightly.
    -He realizes he was wrong to execute Caerleon and that he brought war upon Camelot himself. -He secretly visits Queen Annis and places himself at her mercy. He addresses her with respect and admits his shameful mistake to her, labelling himself a coward and unjust. He wants to call off the war by invoking the right of single combat.
    -He begs Queen Annis for Merlin's life.
    -He appreciates Merlin's loyalty despite putting his life at risk.
    -Arthur is sure that Camelot can win the battle but he is not willing to pay the price of bloodshed.
    -He believes he has struck a fair deal with Queen Annis and is committed to stand by it.
    -He offers himself as the representative of his land in the fight as the only just and honourable choice. He knows in his heart that he has made the right decision.
    -He makes arrangements for Gwen to know that he is sorry in case he cannot tell her so himself.
    -He calls Merlin 'old friend'.
    -He spares Derian's life in the combat because he seeks peace not victory.
    -He admits that Merlin was right with regards to Caerleon's execution.
    -He learns from his mistake and apologizes to Gwen. He is not afraid of being seen with those who he cares for, regardless of their standing.
    -He thinks that a good king should respect the traditions of the past but also be true to himself.

    Arthur is knocked unconscious or prevented from knowing about Merlin's magic:
    -He is busy fighting Derian when Merlin meddles with the fight.

    What Arthur says about magic:
    -Nothing.

    Potions made by Gaius:
    -None.

    Gaius's smacks:
    -None.

    'I have faith Arthur will be a great king' statements:
    - Agravaine says (even if ill-intentionally) that there isn't a citizen of Camelot who would not lay down their life for Arthur.
    -Merlin says he's always shown mercy in battle and never sought to humiliate his enemy.
    -Agravaine says (even if ill-intentionally) that Arthur's resolve has earned the respect of both the council and the people alike and that his father would have been proud of him.
    -Gwen says that he has a good heart and that by being true to it he'll be the king he wants to be.
    -Merlin says that as their king, Arthur holds himself responsible if anything were to happen to any of his men.
    -Elyan says that there isn't a man among Arthur's men who would not die for him. He adds that the Knights of Camelot have made their pledge and hence they wear the Pendragon crest with pride. They are aware that fighting in Arthur's name means fighting for freedom and justice.
    -Merlin says that no one could care more for their men than Arthur and that they know that he would never send them into battle lightly. He adds that if there's ever a way out of a battle Arthur would take it. -Merlin says that no one is prepared to sacrifice more for the sake of Camelot than Arthur. He always makes his decisions in the best interests of the kingdom. -Morgana says that Arthur will always risk his own life before those of his men.
    -Queen Annis says that Arthur is a great warrior.
    -Queen Annis says that there is something about Arthur that gives her hope for the future. She believes to have misjudged him.

    Merlin and Great Dragon meetings:
    -None.

    Great Dragon's riddles:
    -None.

    Morgana's premonitory dreams:
    -None.

    Morgana's smirks of doom:
    -None.

    Agravaine's advances on Morgana:
    -None.

    Arthur and Gwen moments:
    -She waits for Arthur in his room and welcomes him with a hug. He asks her if she has missed him and she says she has indeed. She cannot stop smiling and cannot let go of his hand.
    -Arthur does not care that Gwen is a servant because he wants to marry for love.
    -After he is persuaded to set aside his feeling for Gwen for the best interest of the kingdom he vents his frustration over a punch bag.
    -Gwen is happy to receive Arthur's night visit to her home and is sad that he won't be staying for long. She takes the news that their relationship is not appropriate now that he is king calmly despite guessing that he must have been talked into it. She shows strength of mind by advising him to be true to his heart. She is deeply hurt and sheds a tear when he leaves.
    -Gwen is worried about Arthur's wellbeing when he leaves for battle. She knows that as king the fate of Camelot rests on his shoulders but he is not alone.
    -Arthur makes arrangements for Gwen to know that he has realized his mistake and that he is sorry in case he dies in battle. He trusts Merlin to give her his ring as a symbol of it.
    -He offers Gwen some wild flowers that he picked on his way back home as an apology. She shows a lot of dignity by saying that she understands why things have to be the way they are. However he replies that respecting the traditions of the past should not be an obstacle to being true to himself. He wants to do as he sees fit and does not care about being seen with whom he cares for. They kiss, both smile and then kiss again.

    Chestporns/Bodyporns:
    -Arthur's red and white chest revealing shirts-porn.
    -Arthur's footporn.

    Dungeon time:
    -None.

    Fashion:

    Merlin:
    -Red padded shirt, chainmail and Camelot cloak (day 1).
    -Blue shirt, red scarf and brown jacket with brown underjacket.
    -Blue shirt, red scarf and brown jacket with brown underjacket (day 2).
    -Blue shirt, blue scarf and maroon jacket (day 3).
    -Red shirt, blue scarf and brown jacket with brown underjacket (day 4).
    -Red shirt, blue scarf and brown jacket with brown underjacket (day 5).
    -Red shirt, blue scarf and brown jacket with brown underjacket (day 6).

    Arthur:
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail with voiders (arm armour piece) and hauberk (chest armour piece) (day 1).
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail.
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail with voiders (arm armour piece) and hauberk (chest armour piece) (day 2).
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail with Camelot cloak.
    -Red shirt.
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail.
    -Blue shirt with brown coat.
    -Red shirt (day 3).
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail.
    -Blue shirt.
    -Blue shirt with brown coat.
    -Blue shirt with brown coat and blue cloak.
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail with voiders (arm armour piece) and hauberk (chest armour piece) and Camelot cloak (day 4).
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail with voiders (arm armour piece) and hauberk (chest armour piece).
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail.
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail with brownish cloak.
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail.
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail (day 5).
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail with voiders (arm armour piece) and hauberk (chest armour piece) (day 6).
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail with voiders (arm armour piece) and hauberk (chest armour piece) and Camelot cloak.
    -White shirt and brown pajama pants (day 7).

    Morgana:
    -Black dress and black cloak (day 3).
    -Black dress and black cloak (day 5).
    -Black dress and black cloak (day 6).

    Gwen:
    -Blue dress with white underdress (day 2).
    -Purple dress with white underdress and white shawl (day 3).
    -Blue dress with white underdress (day 4).
    -Blue dress with white underdress (day 7).

    Gaius:
    -Green robe (day 1).
    -Maroon robe (day 4).
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    Wonder_

    [174]Nov 12, 2011
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    boom-moo wrote:
    How about the lies told on this one, Wonder_?


    Sorry about the lateness, had some issues with my internet. Here it is:


    Agravaine lies to Arthur about having to do whatever it takes to secure his authority on his kingdom.


    Agravaine telling Arthur he should rule with his head, not his heart. (I guess this is a slightly iffy one but since Agravaine was being intentionally misleading I'll put it here)


    Random afterthought: Did this episode remind anyone else of The Book of Merlyn by T.H. White?

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    boom-moo

    [175]Nov 12, 2011
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    Sorry Wonder_, I didn't mean to pressure, I thought you had forgotten

    Liar, liar:
    -Agravaine lies to Arthur about having to do whatever it takes to secure his authority on his kingdom.
    -Agravaine telling Arthur he should rule with his head, not his heart.

    How about Arthur telling Gwen that he hasn't been talked into breaking up with her? I think that computes as a lie.
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    Wonder_

    [176]Nov 13, 2011
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    Oh, yes, that too. Sometimes it's hard to decide whether something is a lie!

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    boom-moo

    [177]Nov 13, 2011
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    Good, I've added that one

    Liar, liar:
    -Agravaine lies to Arthur about having to do whatever it takes to secure his authority on his kingdom.
    -Agravaine telling Arthur he should rule with his head, not his heart.
    -Arthur lies to Gwen about not having been talked into breaking up with her.
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