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BBC (ended 2012)

Episode 4x06 "A Servant Of Two Masters" discussion thread.

  • Avatar of Chayiana

    Chayiana

    [61]Nov 6, 2011
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    boom-moo wrote:
    camelotkitty12 wrote:


    I'm off to the tavern...oh spking of which....can't the writers pick another place as tpo where merlin was hiding? that's getting old. he was out picking HERBS!!!


    But that's it, it's meant to be an ongoing joke I have to lol at Gaius using the same excuse despite it annoys Arthur terribly and gets Merlin in trouble. I mean, I can understand him doing it when he thinks that Merlin deserves to have an ear pulled as in Aithusa, but it this case it is kind of mean of Gaius.


    But has it been really Gaius who told Arthur Merlin was in the tavern? It could've been Gwen, maybe she thought it a "brilliant" excuse not knowing the history of it.

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    boom-moo

    [62]Nov 6, 2011
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    Alright, off I go:

    Episode 4x54 magic and spells:
    -Merlin makes a bandit fall from his horse (using his mind).
    -Merlin provokes a rock fall (using a spell).
    -Morgana heals Merlin's wound (using a spell).
    -Morgana brings the Fomorrow to life (using a spell).
    -Merlin transforms into Old Merlin (using an aging spell / potion?)
    -Old Merlin freezes Gwaine's attack and knocks him off (using his mind).
    -Old Merlin breaks Percival's sword in two (using his mind).
    -Old Merlin makes Percival and Leon stand close together and drop on top of Elyan (using his mind).
    -Old Merlin blasts Morgana (using his mind).
    -Morgana blasts Old Merlin (using a spell).
    -Old Merlin blasts Morgana (using a spell).
    -Morgana makes a knife fly Old Merlin's way (using her mind).
    -Morgana blasts Old Merlin (using her mind).
    -Old Merlin provokes a twister (using a spell).
    -Morgana tries to stop the twister? (using her mind) -Merlin directs the twister towards Morgana and blasts her (using his mind).
    -Merlin kills the Fomorrow (using fire and a spell).
    -Old Merlin goes back to young Merlin (using a potion?)
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  • Avatar of dinamo

    dinamo

    [63]Nov 6, 2011
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    I think in a weird way its possible that this encounter could make Morgana fear Emry's less (it probably won't knowing the writers though).

    She held her own against him had him at her mercy and just walked away. For someone who was meant to be her doom she didn't exactly get demolished by him. Plus also she might think that he came prepared to attack her for the jar, she didn't know he was there and had to counter him unaware so if she was prepared for him next time in her mind its possible the result could be diferent, which would entirely plausable for her to think going off the little she knows of ''Emrys''
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    boom-moo

    [64]Nov 6, 2011
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    I get your point but in the same way, Emrys is gonna be even more ready next time for someone that has proven powerful enough to face him successfully for a while. Why give him the chance?
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  • Avatar of Tankim

    Tankim

    [65]Nov 6, 2011
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    JJuna wrote:


    boom-moo wrote:
    I get it that continuation, accuracy, characterization and logic are not this show's forte and that such things are overlooked for the sake of storyline I don't understand why Morgana didn't try to kill Emrys when she had the chance:


    My impression was that she did try to kill him. After she first blasted him, there was a look of surprised delight on her face as he fell to the ground. She then took out her knife and walked towards him. I think she was intending to despatch him then, but he was too quick for her. After that, the chance was lost.



    I think it wouldn't have been much of a problem to show a fight in which Morgana really tries to kill Dragoon but fails since their powers are almost equal. This was just another "meh, that's it, I'm goin' home".



    JJuna wrote:


    arwyn-t and Sparklingwater, I do have some sympathy with the points you have raised. However, the inconsistencies and illogicalities which I found so irksome in serious episodes, didn't trouble me so much here, as the episode was so entertaining. I thought the blend of drama and comedy was just right, in striking contrast to 4x03, where the attempts at humour in such a serious episode seemed crass and distasteful. In fact, for me, this episode was a profound relief, not only for the things we saw, which I mentioned in my previous post, but also for the things we didn't see: The death of a major character, a morally dubious execution or the humiliation of the leading character, to name but a few.



    I agree that the humour was much more appropriate in this episode whilst it was completely out of line in episode three. And still, something is missing. I feel that the balance is missing, you never really know when to laugh and when to be upset or sad. It's just so very confusing and moods are changing much too quickly. You have some kind of a torture in one scene and a dotty old wizard in the next, a possessed Merlin who obviously is malicious and at the same time too stupid to let Arthur CORRODE in acid... I mean, hey, we have actually cruel intentions being compensated by stand up comedy in a Stan & Laurel way. Something just doesn't fit here. And I love such comedy, as a matter of fact, I can be very silly at times It's just... I don't know. Weird. I agree with Sparklingwater that possessed Merlin's attempts to kill Arthur were a little odd since he is a wizard and wouldn't have a hard time to kill Arthur actually. It's also illogical that he did not inform Arthur about Morgana's whereabouts, nor warning him of Agravaine. And again Arthur just talked about his father as if he had passed away years ago and not just days or maybe a couple of weeks ago. There is no emotion and no depth in this, obviously also because they decide to bring up humour when situations actually are serious. The fact that all those flaws and illogical situations have become so very obvious to many people doesn't make it better or unimportant so that we can say that it's okay as long as we have a good laugh now and then. I want to see a story that is convincing and I want to see characters acting convincing (the actors do, the characters don't), otherwise I have to assume that the writers think very little of the viewers and their abilty to think. Seems they are kidding us.

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    boom-moo

    [66]Nov 6, 2011
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    Tankim wrote:

    The fact that all those flaws and illogical situations have become so very obvious to many people doesn't make it better or unimportant so that we can say that it's okay as long as we have a good laugh now and then.

    I think that an intrinsic part of the show is using inconsistencies, character flaws and illogical situations as a way to convey comedy. It can be overlooked at times, other times it's frustrating, depending on everyone's subjectivity.
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    zantha

    [67]Nov 6, 2011
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    i think after she got the jar back the last time, she was going to put it back in the hut. then go back out and deal with him. it would be simpler to deal with him, if she wasn't also having to worry about getting the jar back all the time.


    one thing taht annoye me was that he didn't go and check if she was alive or not. he really could have killed her, so if that was what he was trying t do then why not go and make sure. also if he is really meant to be the hero then he wouldn't want to kell her and would make sur esh ewas hurt, but alive. he does nothing. to me that was very cold. i now he is menayt to be the good guy, but i so want her to find out about his magic and get to bet him up, get her revange on him. which i think she had every right to.

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    dinamo

    [68]Nov 6, 2011
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    I don't believe Merlin in this is a good guy he's played to be a good guy but his body count is bigger than anyones apart from Uther it seems. He is the hero of the story but because everything us played black and white he gets to be good and be a killer and other people are bad killers its a double standard. Dead people are dead people whether they are bad people or not, he is much more powerful tha most people so he has no excuse for killing them often when he could just stop them instead.
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  • Avatar of JJuna

    JJuna

    [69]Nov 6, 2011
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    Tankim wrote:


    I agree that the humour was much more appropriate in this episode whilst it was completely out of line in episode three. And still, something is missing. I feel that the balance is missing, you never really know when to laugh and when to be upset or sad. It's just so very confusing and moods are changing much too quickly. You have some kind of a torture in one scene and a dotty old wizard in the next, a possessed Merlin who obviously is malicious and at the same time too stupid to let Arthur CORRODE in acid... I mean, hey, we have actually cruel intentions being compensated by stand up comedy in a Stan & Laurel way. Something just doesn't fit here. And I love such comedy, as a matter of fact, I can be very silly at times It's just... I don't know. Weird. I agree with Sparklingwater that possessed Merlin's attempts to kill Arthur were a little odd since he is a wizard and wouldn't have a hard time to kill Arthur actually.


    Hello Tankim


    Perhaps possessed Merlin 'forgot' his magical powers. He certainly seemed to lose his mental faculties. I think presenting him as a bumbling incompetent was just meant to add to the farce, and to underline the fact that it wasn't the real Merlin. Colin played those scenes really well, and with the broad humour added by Gaius, Gwen and Sir Leon, I don't think we were meant to take the assassination scheme too seriously.


    Tankim wrote:


    It's also illogical that he did not inform Arthur about Morgana's whereabouts, nor warning him of Agravaine. And again Arthur just talked about his father as if he had passed away years ago and not just days or maybe a couple of weeks ago. There is no emotion and no depth in this, obviously also because they decide to bring up humour when situations actually are serious. The fact that all those flaws and illogical situations have become so very obvious to many people doesn't make it better or unimportant so that we can say that it's okay as long as we have a good laugh now and then. I want to see a story that is convincing and I want to see characters acting convincing (the actors do, the characters don't), otherwise I have to assume that the writers think very little of the viewers and their abilty to think. Seems they are kidding us.



    I do agree with you, and have mentioned this constantly in my reviews of previous episodes. It's just that this time, I did find the episode watchable and enjoyable, so I was pleased for once not to have to focus on those obvious flaws.

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  • Avatar of Tankim

    Tankim

    [70]Nov 6, 2011
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    boom-moo wrote:
    Tankim wrote:


    The fact that all those flaws and illogical situations have become so very obvious to many people doesn't make it better or unimportant so that we can say that it's okay as long as we have a good laugh now and then.


    I think that an intrinsic part of the show is using inconsistencies, character flaws and illogical situations as a way to convey comedy. It can be overlooked at times, other times it's frustrating, depending on everyone's subjectivity.


    Basically, I agree with you and I know exactly what you mean. To give an example, it worked quite well with Beauty and the Beast where we could see Uther acting totally different from what we had seen before. A romantic fool in love wasn't exactly how most people would have described him but it was absolutely fitting. Very well balanced for all characters. In season four, this balance is missing. It's jumping from one extreme to another and in regard to the extremely important arc about finding and stopping Morgana, it makes no sense whatsoever that Merlin didn't tell Arthur. There is no need for him to tell Arthur the truth, although it would have been okay since he was enchanted and it wasn't his fault. Anyway, he could have told him that he heard a rumour that Morgana has been spotted in the woods somewhere near the hut. So this is the frustrating kind of comedy and illogicality and it has been this way throughout season four so far.

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    PenguinSuzie

    [71]Nov 6, 2011
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    zantha wrote:
    i think after she got the jar back the last time, she was going to put it back in the hut. then go back out and deal with him. it would be simpler to deal with him, if she wasn't also having to worry about getting the jar back all the time.
    It's possible she planned to return, but I think she just took the chance to leave quickly with the jar.

    zantha wrote:
    one thing taht annoye me was that he didn't go and check if she was alive or not. he really could have killed her, so if that was what he was trying t do then why not go and make sure. also if he is really meant to be the hero then he wouldn't want to kell her and would make sur esh ewas hurt, but alive. he does nothing. to me that was very cold. i now he is menayt to be the good guy, but i so want her to find out about his magic and get to bet him up, get her revange on him. which i think she had every right to.
    Just because he's the good guy doesn't mean he wouldn't kill an enemy. Especially in self defence. If Morgana found out about his magic, he would have no reason to hold anything back as himself and so it's extremely unlikely that in that situation she could beat him up! I disagree that Merlin has what's coming to him from her, from my perspective I don't think she the good guy, I think she's lost sight of her earlier intentions and the fact that people outside of her and her allies, actually matter and that innocent shouldn't be caught in the crossfire, especially so callously.
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  • Avatar of zantha

    zantha

    [72]Nov 6, 2011
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    dinamo wrote:
    I don't believe Merlin in this is a good guy he's played to be a good guy but his body count is bigger than anyones apart from Uther it seems. He is the hero of the story but because everything us played black and white he gets to be good and be a killer and other people are bad killers its a double standard. Dead people are dead people whether they are bad people or not, he is much more powerful tha most people so he has no excuse for killing them often when he could just stop them instead.


    thank you. i alway feel liek i am teh only one that doesn't think merlin is a hero at all. that is why i hat eit taht he gets away with all he does, most of the time not feeling bad about it. when other characters like morgana are treated like they are pure evil.
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    PenguinSuzie

    [73]Nov 6, 2011
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    Merlin only kills when he has to, like in self defence of to protect people, he doesn't kill people who are in his way or for fun. Morgana and many other baddies kill and endanger many innocent lives to further their own agendas. Which is usually power and/or revenge.

    I think maybe why Merlin didn't tell Arthur (unless he did, off screen) is that Arthur would head out to find her and it would put himself, now deeply against magic, into a lot of danger, he probably wouldn't stand a chance against her. Also maybe Merlin thinks she'll move now that Emrys knows where she lives.
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    zantha

    [74]Nov 6, 2011
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    there agenda is to avange the horror of teh great purge, or to bring magic back. just like merlin. he just gets away with it. who has morgana or anyone killed that was just for fun and didn't have a goal to bring magic back behind it.

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    boom-moo

    [75]Nov 6, 2011
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    zantha wrote:

    i think after she got the jar back the last time, she was going to put it back in the hut. then go back out and deal with him. it would be simpler to deal with him, if she wasn't also having to worry about getting the jar back all the time.

    She wouldn't have to worry about him getting the jar if she would have finished him. I fail to see the logic in getting the jar, giving her back to him (he might as well have killed her when she wasn't looking) and walk away.

    zantha wrote:

    one thing taht annoye me was that he didn't go and check if she was alive or not. he really could have killed her, so if that was what he was trying t do then why not go and make sure. also if he is really meant to be the hero then he wouldn't want to kell her and would make sur esh ewas hurt, but alive. he does nothing. to me that was very cold. i now he is menayt to be the good guy, but i so want her to find out about his magic and get to bet him up, get her revange on him. which i think she had every right to.

    Merlin actually walks over to her and holds his hand out towards her (not sure what for, I guess to knock her off or stop her from attacking him further) when she asks him to spare her and then makes the knife fly his way (hence they start blasting each other again). So yeah, Merlin has to check that she is alright after sparing her life and getting a knife thrown his way as a token of her gratitude.
    dinamo wrote:
    I don't believe Merlin in this is a good guy he's played to be a good guy but his body count is bigger than anyones apart from Uther it seems. He is the hero of the story but because everything us played black and white he gets to be good and be a killer and other people are bad killers its a double standard. Dead people are dead people whether they are bad people or not, he is much more powerful tha most people so he has no excuse for killing them often when he could just stop them instead.
    Dead people, good or bad, are dead people indeed. But it's not the same killing in self defense or to save lives than killing just for sake of it.
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    jaqtkd

    [76]Nov 6, 2011
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    It was mentioned earlier that a scene where posessed!Merlin used magic against Arthur was taken out and I also quickly noticed that magic was not used by him at all during that time - as if it couldn't be accessed by the creature. It also ensured that Merlin lost any advantage he usually has as, without his magic, he literally does become as useless as Arthur and others always think he is normally!


    I think those scenes were the very best - every line delivered so well by Colin. Oh, closely followed by Merlin's "Yes, it's my favourite too," line to George in his last scene.

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    zantha

    [77]Nov 6, 2011
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    he is her doom. getting the jar out of the way, nad having time to thing about what to do next, maybe get a weapon make sence to me. she was clearly hurt badly and knocked out for a long time. she was no danger to him. he was just being cold, think he is bette rtha her, that his wasy is the right way. if it is then he should tell people about it.

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    Tankim

    [78]Nov 6, 2011
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    Hey JJuna



    JJuna wrote:


    Tankim wrote:


    I agree that the humour was much more appropriate in this episode whilst it was completely out of line in episode three. And still, something is missing. I feel that the balance is missing, you never really know when to laugh and when to be upset or sad. It's just so very confusing and moods are changing much too quickly. You have some kind of a torture in one scene and a dotty old wizard in the next, a possessed Merlin who obviously is malicious and at the same time too stupid to let Arthur CORRODE in acid... I mean, hey, we have actually cruel intentions being compensated by stand up comedy in a Stan & Laurel way. Something just doesn't fit here. And I love such comedy, as a matter of fact, I can be very silly at times It's just... I don't know. Weird. I agree with Sparklingwater that possessed Merlin's attempts to kill Arthur were a little odd since he is a wizard and wouldn't have a hard time to kill Arthur actually.


    Hello Tankim


    Perhaps possessed Merlin 'forgot' his magical powers. He certainly seemed to lose his mental faculties. I think presenting him as a bumbling incompetent was just meant to add to the farce, and to underline the fact that it wasn't the real Merlin. Colin played those scenes really well, and with the broad humour added by Gaius, Gwen and Sir Leon, I don't think we were meant to take the assassination scheme too seriously.


    Okay, that might explain it. Haven't thought about that. Still, it would have been nice that if it was the reason, we would have gotten a hint. But yes, you could be right. Colin always plays great, he is a wonderful actor. I love Dragoon, shame that he appeared in the two epsiodes of which I wished the comedy and humour would have been placed a little more balanced (and in ep. three not at all!). Or better, the other way around: the serious plots wouldn't have been there.



    PenguinSuzie wrote:
    I think maybe why Merlin didn't tell Arthur (unless he did, off screen) is that Arthur would head out to find her and it would put himself, now deeply against magic, into a lot of danger, he probably wouldn't stand a chance against her. Also maybe Merlin thinks she'll move now that Emrys knows where she lives.


    Maybe, but Arthur is either the great king that everyone sees in him and therefore capable of making the right descisions now and then or Merlin has to take care of every single step he is taking, like a father protecting his little child. I think it's the least he can do to let Arthur know where Morgana lives or lived. I shouldn't be too difficult to trace her.


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    boom-moo

    [79]Nov 6, 2011
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    zantha wrote:

    he is her doom. getting the jar out of the way, nad having time to thing about what to do next, maybe get a weapon make sence to me.

    We have different fighting strategies then I wouldn't turn my back to him, expect him to be right there waiting for me whenever I'm back with a weapon or consider the jar a priority to finishing a huge threat.

    zantha wrote:

    she was clearly hurt badly and knocked out for a long time. she was no danger to him.

    When was that? She was very able to try and sweet talk him the moment she thought he was gonna kill her. And yeah, she no danger to him, that knife materialized out of thin air.
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    zantha

    [80]Nov 6, 2011
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    when he not her back with teh whirl wind. she was still knocked out when Agravaine found her. when he left without cheking if she was alive.

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