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BBC (ended 2012)

Episode 4x07 "The Secret Sharer" discussion thread

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    Old_Gal

    [81]Nov 14, 2011
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    I loved the episode. The initial Arthur / Merlin messing around continues to cement the relationship, the Gauis torture / disclosure scene was excellent, Merlin and Arthur after Gauis' abduction - very well played, Merlin and Alator - excellent. I didn't realise how much I wanted Merlin to get some more recognition / support (other than what he has, of course). Which is now making me smile as to how I'll react when the 'big reveal' actually does happen!!


    And the Arthur and Gauis scene at the end ... such a small line, so quietly delivered ("I love you far too much to betray you") was brilliantly done. Gwaine and Merlin? Agree, I was a bit disappointed in the lack of good interaction but I'm putting that down to Merlin being very upset - especially after the Arthur and the whole "Gauis is a traitor" scene, assuming Gwaine (who seems to admit he's been playing soldiers and not perhaps taking time to say "Hi" to Merlin recently) is just going to tag along and condemn him. Would have like a bit more of some relationship rebuilding there.


    Nathanial Parker was much better used. Crafty chap. I'm inclined to see Arthur's 'blind spot' re him as part of how that era was. The word of a noble was worth much more than that of a servant - this has been commented on in the past in Merlin several times. And has been the cause of a few incidents with Merlin and Arthur. This is bound to be part of it - Agravaine is noble - Uncle to the King. You would have to be able to prove without a doubt that he is 'evil dude'. To just make an allegation would not be acceptable (note Arthur's comment of "I'll ignore that last comment" during the early part of the episode). Rank and birth place counted for a heck of a lot in those days.


    How come Agravaine got the thanks, though, for finding Gauis? I've inserted a scene in my mind where (a) someone asks where Merlin is after Gwaine and Aggy come back with Gauis and (b) Gwaine tells Arthur it was Merlin who found him - not Aggy.


    And Alator? I want him back. Agree that the look on Merlin's face when he went down on one knee was classic. Wonderful speech, excellently delivered and powerful.


    I also like the way the put both main characters into the same place. Both told of their having other people's support to build the world they wanted to build. Nice way of starting to pull the "two sides of the same coin" together in my mind.


    Roll on next week.

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    boom-moo

    [82]Nov 14, 2011
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    Old_Gal wrote:
    How come Agravaine got the thanks, though, for finding Gauis?
    Well, despite having 'followed Merlin and Gwaine's path' he technically arrived to Gaius first through the labyrinth of caves and urged Gwaine to bring him back to Camelot.

    Old_Gal wrote:
    I also like the way the put both main characters into the same place. Both told of their having other people's support to build the world they wanted to build.
    Hadn't thought of it that way, nice point
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  • Avatar of Old_Gal

    Old_Gal

    [83]Nov 14, 2011
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    [QUOTE="boom-moo"]

    Old_Gal wrote:
    How come Agravaine got the thanks, though, for finding Gauis?
    Well, despite having 'followed Merlin and Gwaine's path' he technically arrived to Gaius first through the labyrinth of caves and urged Gwaine to bring him back to Camelot.


    I know ..... but Aggy knew where he was so he cheated ............. I wanted Arthur to appreciate Merlin found him. But I suppose I'll have to be happy with the fact Arthur realised again that Merlin was right. Engage smug mode ........


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    boom-moo

    [84]Nov 14, 2011
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    Old_Gal wrote:
    I wanted Arthur to appreciate Merlin found him. But I suppose I'll have to be happy with the fact Arthur realised again that Merlin was right.
    Yeah, but Arthur didn't know that Agravaine cheated so he did the best he could do with the knoledge he had: he reckoned to have made a mistake and to owe and apology, which he gave. I hope he doesn't forget (once again) that Gaius is to be trusted.
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    Old_Gal

    [85]Nov 14, 2011
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    Agreed. And I love the fish by the way on your footer. Makes me smile every time I see it. Anyhow - better get some work done now as the boss is not used to me smiling at my desk -)

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  • Avatar of boom-moo

    boom-moo

    [86]Nov 14, 2011
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    Old_Gal wrote:
    Agreed. And I love the fish by the way on your footer. Makes me smile every time I see it
    Thanks, good to hear He's got a really long list of fans!

    Old_Gal wrote:
    Anyhow - better get some work done now as the boss is not used to me smiling at my desk -)
    Lol, you need practice. I can pull a perfect poker face while pretending to cover some boring accounting

    Back on track...

    Episode 4x07 RIP list:
    -No one.

    Episode 4x07 Lives Saved list:
    -Merlin, Gwaine and Agravaine (though against his will) save Gaius' life.
    -Alator saves Merlin's life by keeping his secret.
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  • Avatar of jaqtkd

    jaqtkd

    [87]Nov 14, 2011
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    Old_Gal wrote:


    Nathanial Parker was much better used. Crafty chap. I'm inclined to see Arthur's 'blind spot' re him as part of how that era was. The word of a noble was worth much more than that of a servant - this has been commented on in the past in Merlin several times. And has been the cause of a few incidents with Merlin and Arthur. This is bound to be part of it - Agravaine is noble - Uncle to the King. You would have to be able to prove without a doubt that he is 'evil dude'. To just make an allegation would not be acceptable (note Arthur's comment of "I'll ignore that last comment" during the early part of the episode). Rank and birth place counted for a heck of a lot in those days.



    I agree that, although it's frustrating to some, this is pretty much canon as far as the show goes. Time and again we've seen commoners accuse nobles and be punished for it, even when they're usually right. It's happened to Merlin and Gaius too often now for them not to risk it. When Merlin does it's only because he's upset but even with Arthur now openly acknowledging their friendship, he still cannot accept the critism from a servant.


    Yes, Goldie the fish has numerous fans now

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    Sparklingwater

    [88]Nov 14, 2011
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    jaqtkd wrote:



    I agree that, although it's frustrating to some, this is pretty much canon as far as the show goes. Time and again we've seen commoners accuse nobles and be punished for it, even when they're usually right. It's happened to Merlin and Gaius too often now for them not to risk it. When Merlin does it's only because he's upset but even with Arthur now openly acknowledging their friendship, he still cannot accept the critism from a servant.


    Yes, Goldie the fish has numerous fans now




    Haven't seen this episode but read all the reviews. As far as concerning the word of commoners accusing nobles, someone mentioned before that Merlin could easily tell Gwaine and Gwaine could easily observe Agravaine and his activities. Problem solved. Moreover, nobles and royals were very well aware of the fact that there are plots and intrigues and threats created by other nobles and royals. Im sure that kings and queens indeed listened to the rumours from commoners back then, if only secretly, in order to get information about what's happening. Plus, Arthur thought a little differently about nobility, so I don't think that holding back important information that would save lives and entire Camelot can be justified with the usual I'm-just-a-commoner-stuff.

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    telytubie

    [89]Nov 14, 2011
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    Tankim wrote:

    Anyway, it was good to see that Alator was on Merlin's side even though it was predictable. It shows even more Morgana's illogical intentions because it should be in her interest to have Emry's establishing magic in Camelot and to have Arthur uniting Albion. As a member of the Old Religion she should know about Emrys as well as the dragon does. And if she doesn't, Alator could have told her without revealing details about Merlin



    But then Morgana never knew about Albion or Emrys destiny to free magic, did she? All she knows is he's her doom, period! Not that she'd suddenly turn good if she knew.... she's all about hatre, revenge and claiming her right at all cost.

    The only people so far who called Merlin "Emrys" are the druids, ancient sorcerers and otherworldly creatures. The dragon's said Merlin's known by many names and "Emrys" is the druid version, so even if Alator's heard about the prophecy, he may be refered to by other name. I don't see how anyone'd think of telling Morgana about something that'd be just a myth and it's not like she's trained in magic all her life!

    I agree the 'triple-goddess' thing just dropped out of the blue! Last I heard, it's the "high-priestess of the Old Religion" of which warrior priests like Alator have sworned to protect. So I find it odd he'd call Morgana 'your kind'... make me wonder if they're of different 'kind' after all
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    merthurwen

    [90]Nov 14, 2011
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    But Arthur doesn't or at least it doesn't seem to me that Arthur has truly changed his belief system about the classes, at least not yet. So far all the changes Arthur has made really relate to him personally. He has made 4 commoners knights (if you count Lance, and Gwaine) but that was born of their extraordinary loyalty to him.



    But when push comes to shove his first reaction is to pull rank. When you think about it all the people he's closest to are commoners and yet, a man he has been close to for months has more sway over him than the people he's know for years, and who have literally put their lives on the line for him. I think this is normal. Arthur is I suppose somewhere upwards of 23, you can't change what's been ingrained in you for 21 years over night. In fact Gwaine has been the only one to cross class lines (but he's never bought into them) when the chips are down. The same can be said ofGwen Merlin and Gaius all have a unbreakable bond and it would seem none of them truly trust in the constancy of Arthur's friendshipFrownthey may all love him but it seems they trust in each other and the last two weeks have really focused the fracture of the class lines (or at least I really picked up on it) can't help but wonder if TPTB are about to set up a real break where Arthur learns that people are not toys that you can put down and forget about until you next feel the need to play with them.



    I have to say I hope so. Especially Merlin and Gwen. I want them both to let Arthur know (hopefully at the same time) that they need his trust. For once I want them not to be there for him emotionally. Cause he is really beginning to get on my nerves.

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    Sparklingwater

    [92]Nov 14, 2011
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    merthurwen wrote:


    Arthur is I suppose somewhere upwards of 23, you can't change what's been ingrained in you for 21 years over night. In fact Gwaine has been the only one to cross class lines (but he's never bought into them) when the chips are down. The same can be said ofGwen Merlin and Gaius all have a unbreakable bond and it would seem none of them truly trust in the constancy of Arthur's friendshipFrownthey may all love him but it seems they trust in each other and the last two weeks have really focused the fracture of the class lines (or at least I really picked up on it) can't help but wonder if TPTB are about to set up a real break where Arthur learns that people are not toys that you can put down and forget about until you next feel the need to play with them.



    I think Arthur is 26 or maybe older, given that 6 years ago (2 years skipped) Uther held his speech about capturing the dragon and the war against magic. He spoke of 20 years, so Arthur was 20 years at least.


    Arthur might not think that commoners have equal status to nobles but in contrast to Uther who was, in our opinion, old fashioned, Arthur is much more modern. He has questioned Uther's descisions regarding commoners several times. And what would Arthur do if Merlin, Gaius or Gwen expressed their concern about Agravaine? Killing or banishing them? If I was in Camelot and knew of Agravaine's evil plans, I wouldn't give a damn if Arthur got angry at me or not. Merlin and Gaius could tell him that Agravaine was seen by someone visiting Morgana in the woods. What then? I'm sure he wouldn't execute Merlin for that. Even if he told hm off, he wouldn't ignore it since he has been suspiscious of Agravaine already.


    They are doing with Arthur exactly what they did with Uther. They are changing his character and attitude from one epsiode to another to serve the purpose. It's all just about enforcing the storyline, as it seems.

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    arwyn-t

    [93]Nov 14, 2011
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    After my number one favorite till now 4x03, this is another episode that I totally love!


    I'm going to repeat my humble opinion that the director plays a huge role in how a script is brought to life. How you want to set up a scene, what camera angles you use, how you tell your actors to play and how much you linger on their performances, all those things bring up or down an episode. After being disappointed by Alex Pillai and his somewhat flat choices, new director Justin Molotnikov surprised me. He let his camera linger on the actors, caught their nuances, the pace was even and fluent, the angles the best to feel the scene. I don't have the time to do a big analysis on the subject now, but I will get back to this subject later on with examples of very good vs bad directing choices.


    I will give special kudos to Gary Lewis and his excellent Alator. From moment one, you can feel that this warrior priest is not an evil man. He takes a job and wants to see it through, but you see in his eyes that he is a good man deep inside. As he hears of Emrys, you see his surprise and hope, his switching sides, and when Morgana introduces Merlin, he's taken aback and thinks of a way out (Justin Molotnikov, I love you!). I *loved* that he told Morgana that he knows who Emrys is but is never telling *her*, ha! And his pledging his alliance to Merlin, epic moment! Merlin's own army is starting to form!


    And the last scene... I can watch it forever! Colin, Richard, Bradley, Justin (director) and Julian (writer) totally rocked! So much in there that I need to go over them in my later review.


    After three episodes that had me feeling unsatisfied, this one is a keeper! Woo hoo!!! Laughing

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    JJuna

    [94]Nov 14, 2011
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    [QUOTE="JJuna"]



    I thought this was a strong episode with some striking moments.


    merthurwen wrote:


    It seemed to me that Arthur again seemed frustrated with Agravaine when he was explaining how they owed Gaius an apology also did anyone else think that Arthur was ready to hear the truth about Agravaine from Gaius? He seemed pensive and emotional and I've watched a couple (ok more like 4) times I think he actually exhaled. I think he knows it's Agravaine even if he's not quite ready to admit it even to himself.



    Yes, I saw it the same way. I think he was hoping that Gaius would name Agravaine as the abductor, which would have resolved the doubt in his mind. I'm amazed that Gaius said that there was no evidence though. It's essentially the same advice that he gave Merlin about Morgana and Uther. The circumstantial evidence would have been enough to convict Agravaine, especially with Gwaine's testimony about the compromising position in which he found him.



    lilyflower1345 wrote:


    I liked seeing more of Gwaine. He somehow didn't seem his old 'season 3' self though. Merlin and Gwaine's relationship seemed a bit strained to me. When Merlin came in and saw Gwaine waiting for him, he seemed a little cold when he asked "what are you doing here" Almost like he hadn't expected Gwaine to help him. Made me wonder if Gwaine has been ignoring Merlin since becoming a knight and Merlin felt a little bitter about it. But maybe Merlin was just stressed about Gauis missing.



    I think it's clear from what we've seen so far that Gwaine has not been there for Merlin this season. Just to take a couple of examples: When Merlin collapsed at the feast, only Lancelot showed any concern. I would have expected season 3 Gwaine also to have rushed to his side. Then we have the appalling scene in 4x04, in which the knights ganged up like overgrown schoolboys to play a trick on a cold, hungry and tired Merlin. We have all noticed that Gwaine has been behaving like a buffoon this series and has seemed indifferent to Merlin. In the last episode Merlin/Dragoon accused Gwaine: 'You're not what you seem'. While this comment may have been ambiguous, it would not be at all surprising if Merlin has lost some confidence and trust in Gwaine. Therefore, I saw this scene differently. To me, Gwaine looked rather sheepish and unsure of his reception. I thought his words that he was 'tired of playing soldiers' were a very subtle admission that he had neglected Merlin's friendship, and wanted to make amends. In the circumstances, Merlin had every right to be reserved. I hope though that now the ice has been broken, they will be able to resume their former friendship.



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    Chayiana

    [95]Nov 14, 2011
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    telytubie wrote:
    Last I heard, it's the "high-priestess of the Old Religion" of which warrior priests like Alator have sworned to protect. So I find it odd he'd call Morgana 'your kind'... make me wonder if they're of different 'kind' after all


    But wasn't it the "Blood Guard" which has sworn to protect the high priestesses of the old religion? I think the Catha are something different.


    JJuna wrote:
    I think it's clear from what we've seen so far that Gwaine has not been there for Merlin this season. Just to take a couple of examples: When Merlin collapsed at the feast, only Lancelot showed any concern. I would have expected season 3 Gwaine also to have rushed to his side. Then we have the appalling scene in 4x04, in which the knights ganged up like overgrown schoolboys to play a trick on a cold, hungry and tired Merlin. We have all noticed that Gwaine has been behaving like a buffoon this series and has seemed indifferent to Merlin. In the last episode Merlin/Dragoon accused Gwaine: 'You're not what you seem'. While this comment may have been ambiguous, it would not be at all surprising if Merlin has lost some confidence and trust in Gwaine. Therefore, I saw this scene differently. To me, Gwaine looked rather sheepish and unsure of his reception. I thought his words that he was 'tired of playing soldiers' were a very subtle admission that he had neglected Merlin's friendship, and wanted to make amends. In the circumstances, Merlin had every right to be reserved. I hope though that now the ice has been broken, they will be able to resume their former friendship.


    That's an interesting thought and makes a whole lot of sense to me. Remember, when Gwaine said after the battle in 3x13 "That's SIR Gwaine to you!"? Maybe that wasn't totally a joke, maybe the whole "being a knight of Camelot" thing got to his head a bit. Not that he meant to, it just happened... with all his new friends, now that he has a whole new purpose in life, maybe he just changed. It would fit into the picture that Merin kinda feels like an outsider. But the whole thing with Gaius brought Gaius back to his senses. I think he looked indeed a bit guilty. And yes, let's hope they can resume their friendship.

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    lilyflower1345

    [96]Nov 14, 2011
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    JJuna wrote:


    lilyflower1345 wrote:


    I liked seeing more of Gwaine. He somehow didn't seem his old 'season 3' self though. Merlin and Gwaine's relationship seemed a bit strained to me. When Merlin came in and saw Gwaine waiting for him, he seemed a little cold when he asked "what are you doing here" Almost like he hadn't expected Gwaine to help him. Made me wonder if Gwaine has been ignoring Merlin since becoming a knight and Merlin felt a little bitter about it. But maybe Merlin was just stressed about Gauis missing.



    I think it's clear from what we've seen so far that Gwaine has not been there for Merlin this season. Just to take a couple of examples: When Merlin collapsed at the feast, only Lancelot showed any concern. I would have expected season 3 Gwaine also to have rushed to his side. Then we have the appalling scene in 4x04, in which the knights ganged up like overgrown schoolboys to play a trick on a cold, hungry and tired Merlin. We have all noticed that Gwaine has been behaving like a buffoon this series and has seemed indifferent to Merlin. In the last episode Merlin/Dragoon accused Gwaine: 'You're not what you seem'. While this comment may have been ambiguous, it would not be at all surprising if Merlin has lost some confidence and trust in Gwaine. Therefore, I saw this scene differently. To me, Gwaine looked rather sheepish and unsure of his reception. I thought his words that he was 'tired of playing soldiers' were a very subtle admission that he had neglected Merlin's friendship, and wanted to make amends. In the circumstances, Merlin had every right to be reserved. I hope though that now the ice has been broken, they will be able to resume their former friendship.



    It's true, from what we've seen Gwaine really hasn't been a friend to Merlin this season. Gwaine does seem to look sheepish and unsure in this scene. I think Merlin's coldness was probably a combination of being stressed over Gauis and feeling like he wasn't sure he could trust Gwaine. But I could see this 'breaking the ice' like you said. I hope we see another scene with Merlin & Gwaine that shows they've resumed their former friendship. I'm not convinced we'll get it though. Merlin & Gwaine's relationship is going to be secondary to Merlin & Arthur's relationship, which is probably how it should be. So I'm not sure if we'll get any follow up to this. It could just end up being something to explore further in fan-fiction



    @Merthurwen. About Merlin & Gwen letting Arthur know they need his trust.I'd love to see this as well. It seems like Arthur should realize that Merlin is basically always right in these situations. There have been multiple situations where Arthur believes someone else, but Merlin ends up being right. It would be good to see a scene with Merlin and/or Gwen being truly hurt that Arthur doesn't believe them. And for Arthur to realize he needs to trust them. Maybe whenever Agravaine is uncovered as a villian, Arthur will learn this lesson. Or at least to stop thinking along class lines quite so much.


    Though I can understand why he trusts Agravaine. He is his last family member. I think Arthur's feeling overwhelmed as king and he's looking for someone to be a parent/ mentor. And Agravaine fits that need he has. I think he's going to be a little more suspicious now though.


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    Tankim

    [97]Nov 14, 2011
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    Chayiana wrote:


    JJuna wrote:
    I think it's clear from what we've seen so far that Gwaine has not been there for Merlin this season. Just to take a couple of examples: When Merlin collapsed at the feast, only Lancelot showed any concern. I would have expected season 3 Gwaine also to have rushed to his side. Then we have the appalling scene in 4x04, in which the knights ganged up like overgrown schoolboys to play a trick on a cold, hungry and tired Merlin. We have all noticed that Gwaine has been behaving like a buffoon this series and has seemed indifferent to Merlin. In the last episode Merlin/Dragoon accused Gwaine: 'You're not what you seem'. While this comment may have been ambiguous, it would not be at all surprising if Merlin has lost some confidence and trust in Gwaine. Therefore, I saw this scene differently. To me, Gwaine looked rather sheepish and unsure of his reception. I thought his words that he was 'tired of playing soldiers' were a very subtle admission that he had neglected Merlin's friendship, and wanted to make amends. In the circumstances, Merlin had every right to be reserved. I hope though that now the ice has been broken, they will be able to resume their former friendship.


    That's an interesting thought and makes a whole lot of sense to me. Remember, when Gwaine said after the battle in 3x13 "That's SIR Gwaine to you!"? Maybe that wasn't totally a joke, maybe the whole "being a knight of Camelot" thing got to his head a bit. Not that he meant to, it just happened... with all his new friends, now that he has a whole new purpose in life, maybe he just changed. It would fit into the picture that Merin kinda feels like an outsider. But the whole thing with Gaius brought Gaius back to his senses. I think he looked indeed a bit guilty. And yes, let's hope they can resume their friendship.




    Oh well, but that's again guessing and assuming just simply because none was shown to the audience. No one really knows why Gwaine behaved reserved and then immature towards Merlin and I'm sure we will never know. Again the viewers have to tell stories to themselves to fill in the plot holes. We haven't even seen Merlin reacting to it in any way, except his own reserved behaviour in the last epsiode. We could go on guessing forever, like maybe Gwaine stole Merlin's favourite scarf or insulted him on some unknown occasion or whatever. It just doesn't make sense and it isn't satisfying at all because I want to see it and get a hint when watching a TV show, not guessing until doomsday.


    As for Arthur still not seeing the big picture concerning Agaravain, his uncle is the only one left who could possibly be the traitor now that Gaius' innocence has been proven. Uncle or not, it can't get even more obvious. In my opinion, it is betrayal of confidence to not let Arthur know the truth. Gaius and Merlin and maybe even Gwen can't know what Agravaine is up to other than to plot with Morgana. He could kill Arthur anytime, yet they keep him in the dark and are risking his life every day. That's a weird interpretation of friendship and of loyalty.


    It's also odd that a High Priestess of the Old Religion doesn't know about the one who will bring back magic to the land, wether they know his name or not. Morgana should know about it by now since Morgause obviously should have known either and taught Morgana what she needed to know. I'm not saying that every sorcerer or witch has to know about Emrys and/or the prophecy but members of the Old Religion should. In case Morgana has heard of a warlock that will re-establish magic in Camelot, she should be very interested in finding out who he is.


    The thing with the Old Religion and their knowledge of the future or a possible future is weird anyway. After all what the dragon told Merlin about Morgana, Uther and Arthur and Merlin's own fate, the Old Religion seems to know a lot about what might happen in the future. Arthur is the chosen one to unite Albion when in fact Arthur's birth was the very reason for the war on magic. The Old Religion didn't know that when they kill Igraine that Uther would go wacko and try to destroy magic? Why giving life to someone who's fate is to reunite Albion when he actually was the reason for Albion to fall apart or at least for the hunt on magic in the first place? If they knew about Merlin, Morgana and Arthur then why doesn't Morgana know about Emrys or a warlock who will bring back magic to Camelot?

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    boom-moo

    [98]Nov 14, 2011
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    Tankim wrote:

    The thing with the Old Religion and their knowledge of the future or a possible future is weird anyway. After all what the dragon told Merlin about Morgana, Uther and Arthur and Merlin's own fate, the Old Religion seems to know a lot about what might happen in the future. Arthur is the chosen one to unite Albion when in fact Arthur's birth was the very reason for the war on magic. The Old Religion didn't know that when they kill Igraine that Uther would go wacko and try to destroy magic? Why giving life to someone who's fate is to reunite Albion when he actually was the reason for Albion to fall apart or at least for the hunt on magic in the first place? If they knew about Merlin, Morgana and Arthur then why doesn't Morgana know about Emrys or a warlock who will bring back magic to Camelot?

    I think that the interesting thing about it is that not everything is set on stone. I truly believe that Nimueh didn't know that Ygraine's life would be the one taken as a consequence of the bargain of Arthur's birth, I don't think she would have agreed to help Uther otherwise since it brought so much hurt and pain to her kind. The Old Religion might have a knoledge of big things to happen in the long run, but not of every step of the way, every turn of events to get there.
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    TylwythTeg

    [99]Nov 14, 2011
    • member since: 10/10/11
    • level: 6
    • rank: Small Wonder
    • posts: 144


    JJuna wrote:
    I think it's clear from what we've seen so far that Gwaine has not been there for Merlin this season. Just to take a couple of examples: When Merlin collapsed at the feast, only Lancelot showed any concern. I would have expected season 3 Gwaine also to have rushed to his side. Then we have the appalling scene in 4x04, in which the knights ganged up like overgrown schoolboys to play a trick on a cold, hungry and tired Merlin. We have all noticed that Gwaine has been behaving like a buffoon this series and has seemed indifferent to Merlin. In the last episode Merlin/Dragoon accused Gwaine: 'You're not what you seem'. While this comment may have been ambiguous, it would not be at all surprising if Merlin has lost some confidence and trust in Gwaine. Therefore, I saw this scene differently. To me, Gwaine looked rather sheepish and unsure of his reception. I thought his words that he was 'tired of playing soldiers' were a very subtle admission that he had neglected Merlin's friendship, and wanted to make amends. In the circumstances, Merlin had every right to be reserved. I hope though that now the ice has been broken, they will be able to resume their former friendship.




    Hmm... I took the remark 'You're not what you seem' to apply to the fact Gwaine has never openly admitted his background. Only Merlin knows that Gwaine is not a peasant, but the son of a knight. But you know.... the fact does remain that there is something very wrong between Gwaine and Merlin this season. I find it irritating! lol If there was a break in their friendship, why was it done between seasons? Why wasn't it explained this had indeed happened if this was the case? It's actually annoying to insert tension and not give any reason for it beyond guesswork.


    One of the major issues is... 'Yes' they seemed tensed, and 'Yes' Gwaine has be degraded to a cameo character with foolish food related actions intended at weak comedy attempts. But why? There's no logical reason, and certainly not a reason that the series has of yet explored. If a mention had been made that during the past year Merlin and Lancelot's friendship had been close (being Lancelot knew Merlin's secret) and Gwaine felt pushed aside and started hanging out with the other knights, then it would have made sense. Plus, such a personal issue would have allowed character plots and interaction on the subject. Instead it's not clear or explained, it's just there in all is confusing glory.


    Personally speaking, I've been very let down by the inclusion of Gwaine this season. When Eoin Macken was added to the cast I felt confident we'd be getting the full package character introduced in season 3, that has not been the case. Gwaine's part in the episodes have been pretty well wasted, he's not acting like the same character. Finally last week he has slightly more screen time in this ep, yet there was something sadly missing... the elements that made the character fun and likable to begin with. It's very saddening.

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  • Avatar of JJuna

    JJuna

    [100]Nov 14, 2011
    • member since: 06/17/11
    • level: 11
    • rank: Red Shirted Lt.
    • posts: 919



    Tankim wrote:


    Oh well, but that's again guessing and assuming just simply because none was shown to the audience. No one really knows why Gwaine behaved reserved and then immature towards Merlin and I'm sure we will never know. Again the viewers have to tell stories to themselves to fill in the plot holes. We haven't even seen Merlin reacting to it in any way, except his own reserved behaviour in the last epsiode. We could go on guessing forever, like maybe Gwaine stole Merlin's favourite scarf or insulted him on some unknown occasion or whatever. It just doesn't make sense and it isn't satisfying at all because I want to see it and get a hint when watching a TV show, not guessing until doomsday.



    Hello again Tankim I based my comments on what we have actually seen. I didn't speculate at all on the motivations for Gwaine's strange behaviour towards Merlin, although it is of course interesting to do so, in the absence of any explanation forthcoming from TPTB. I am inclined to think that Chayiana may well be very close to the mark.


    Tankim wrote:


    As for Arthur still not seeing the big picture concerning Agaravain, his uncle is the only one left who could possibly be the traitor now that Gaius' innocence has been proven. Uncle or not, it can't get even more obvious. In my opinion, it is betrayal of confidence to not let Arthur know the truth. Gaius and Merlin and maybe even Gwen can't know what Agravaine is up to other than to plot with Morgana. He could kill Arthur anytime, yet they keep him in the dark and are risking his life every day. That's a weird interpretation of friendship and of loyalty.



    Yes, it's true that Agravaine is really the only candidate left, and as I stated in my previous post, I agree with Merthurwen that Arthur already knows this, even if he finds it hard to admit it to himself, and was hoping for confirmation from Gaius. I think it is a grave error on Gaius' part, probably caused by his over cautious nature, but remember that Merlin did want to tell Arthur. It just suits the writers to keep this story arc going for longer, so yet again logical characterizations and actions are sacrificed to the plot.


    TylwythTeg wrote:



    Hmm... I took the remark 'You're not what you seem' to apply to the fact Gwaine has never openly admitted his background. Only Merlin knows that Gwaine is not a peasant, but the son of a knight.


    Hello Teg You may well be right, but I think that if Merlin had been entirely happy in his friendship with Gwaine, he wouldn't have mentioned it at all.


    TylwythTeg wrote:
    But you know.... the fact does remain that there is something very wrong between Gwaine and Merlin this season. I find it irritating! lol If there was a break in their friendship, why was it done between seasons? Why wasn't it explained this had indeed happened if this was the case? It's actually annoying to insert tension and not give any reason for it beyond guesswork.


    One of the major issues is... 'Yes' they seemed tensed, and 'Yes' Gwaine has be degraded to a cameo character with foolish food related actions intended at weak comedy attempts. But why? There's no logical reason, and certainly not a reason that the series has of yet explored. If a mention had been made that during the past year Merlin and Lancelot's friendship had been close (being Lancelot knew Merlin's secret) and Gwaine felt pushed aside and started hanging out with the other knights, then it would have made sense. Plus, such a personal issue would have allowed character plots and interaction on the subject. Instead it's not clear or explained, it's just there in all is confusing glory.


    Personally speaking, I've been very let down by the inclusion of Gwaine this season. When Eoin Macken was added to the cast I felt confident we'd be getting the full package character introduced in season 3, that has not been the case. Gwaine's part in the episodes have been pretty well wasted, he's not acting like the same character. Finally last week he has slightly more screen time in this ep, yet there was something sadly missing... the elements that made the character fun and likable to begin with. It's very saddening.



    I know we've discussed this before, and after having established Gwaine as a very likeable character is season 3, I feel that Gwaine's portrayal this series has been a travesty. I cannot imagine why the writers have done it, but in this episode we did see some positive signs. Let's hope that Merlin and Gwaine do manage to reestablish their friendship, and that the writers don't press the reset button yet again.

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