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BBC (ended 2012)

Episode 4x07 "The Secret Sharer" discussion thread

  • Avatar of JJuna

    JJuna

    [141]Nov 16, 2011
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    smilegreen wrote:
    I agree with the belief that Gwaine and Merlin's relationship has been incredibly strained. You can probably find a gif somewhere on tumblr but when Merlin saw Gwaine in that scene, he grabbed his bag off the door hanger and then thew it open, indicating that he wanted Gwaine to get out. I do see how others could attribute it to stress but still Merlin's reaction was less than pleased and actually rather hostile(too strong?) and definitely unwelcoming. Thus to me, it's really indicating an unexplained underlying tension.


    Yes, the way he opened the door was very pointed indeed. He was definitely unwelcoming, if not downright hostile, and I can't attribute it to stress either. It's true that we have not seen any overt rupture between them, and Tankim's right that we shouldn't really be put in the position of having to over analyse and speculate. However, as TPTB have not clarified matters, what else can we do?


    smilegreen wrote:


    These explanations I've come up with a purely based on my own judgement, they sort of run in together. -Being overexposed to each other. You might not be able to relate to this but I have some old friends from high-school who I only ever talk to if we happen to bump into each other by coincidence. We do have enjoyable conversations but I know that I'd never be able to hang out with them on a daily basis since we don't really have that much in common except for a few experiences in high-school. This could apply to the Gwaine and Merlin friendship


    I see your point, but if this was the case, I would still have expected Merlin to greet Gwaine in a friendly manner. It doesn't explain the hostility or implied mistrust.


    smilegreen wrote:
    -Gwaine's a bit of a loner and not good at fostering real friendships as indicative by his nomadic life and his own words of 'You're the only friend I have Merlin' (or something like that). Thus when he knew he'd have to stay put in Camelot, he tried to put more effort into making friends with the knights. He could either have been depressed or happy about his new found duties, thus concentrating more on them than Merlin.


    This strikes me as more likely. Gwaine certainly wouldn't be the first soldier to act the fool in an attempt to be liked and accepted by his comrades. The signs are that he was more interested in being part of the group than spending time with Merlin, at least in the first part of the season. [/QUOTE]


    smilegreen wrote:


    Also, Merlin's absolutely dedicated to Arthur and he himself might not have spent time with Gwaine, putting that friendship secondary. This could lead to some resentment especially as s3 Gwaine didn't really understand Merlin's devotion to Arthur.


    I think Merlin is naturally gregarious, so despite his devotion to Arthur, I wouldn't expect him to neglect other friendships, as evidenced by his relationship with Lancelot.


    smilegreen wrote:
    Just my speculations but I do agree with that suspicion that the s3 Gwaine/Merlin relationship was much healthier and positive than the Arthur/Merlin relationship and so the writers didn't want that overshadowing their main friendship. I still have hope for this friendship though!


    Me too!



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  • Avatar of ACDiNosey

    ACDiNosey

    [142]Nov 16, 2011
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    Whoop Whoop, I caught up at last!

    I doubt anyone will be interested by my thoughts on the ep, so I'll start with the bone of contention: I didn't think the Gwaine/Merlin was so strange, and certainly not out of the blue. Yes it was uneasy and a bit cold, but we've moved on a great deal since the end of S3. The new knights have been doing knightly things throughout the kingdom, and Merlin has kept doing servanty things for Arthur, along with writing speeches (about Samhain and Harness polishing amongst other things). Whilst Gwaine and Merlin may still be friends, they may not have had as many opportunities for close friendship together... Plus, you might remain friends with someone even if you drift apart socially or geographically. I thought it was at least nice of Gwaine to drop by and check on Merlin.

    Right, now for the stuff I really liked:
    Well, I loved the direction. I thought the Arthur/Merlin scene in the council chamber was very well directed. The way merlin leant on that post reminded me of the "dummy bashing" scene in 3x05
    I also loved the way Arthur seemed utterly uninterested and almost annoyed at Agravaine during Gaius's interrogation. I absolutely love (and drooled at) the bluey/teal neckerchief on blue shirt... I also loved the fact that It was the first time we actually saw behind the changing screen (when a character was behind it that is). First for Arthur, and next for Agravaine. That's a really interesting angle...

    Right, I'm sure some other stuff will come back to me later
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  • Avatar of boom-moo

    boom-moo

    [143]Nov 16, 2011
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    Did something different this time, hope it fits.

    What Arthur says about magic:
    -Nothing, but he is more concerned about Gaius lying to him than about him using magic.
    -He seems to heed Gaius' words about people with magic sharing Arthur's view of a new world and helping him create it.
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  • Avatar of Tankim

    Tankim

    [144]Nov 16, 2011
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    JJuna wrote:


    Tankim wrote:


    But in the first epsiode of season four everything seemed to be alright between Gwaine and Merlin, there was no hint at all that something went wrong during the skipped year.


    I know I'm in danger of repeating myself here, but I would tentatively suggest that's not the case. The differences were subtle and were perhaps as much a matter of what was omitted as what was actually shown. When Merlin collapsed at the feast, only Lancelot showed any concern. The other knights looked, but they didn't move a muscle. Was this really the same Gwaine who was so worried about Merlin's welfare in 3x04 that he rushed into Sir Oswald's chambers, fought off two 'knights' and was prepared to face Uther's wrath? Furthermore in the Dorocha scenes, yet again it was only Lancelot who seemed to have any thought for Merlin whatsoever. Gwaine seemed much more concerned with looking after himself. He suggested drawing lots for collecting firewood, only to be shown up when Arthur and Merlin instantly volunteered to go. Then he seemed very reluctant to go and search for Arthur and Merlin when they didn't return. These are serious matters. I haven't even touched on the kitchen and apple scenes. To me, it's seems obvious that TPTB had taken a decision to show Gwaine in a different and less flattering light. What I didn't understand was why.


    What you say is right but I thought (and still think) that it was just not exploring their friendship in those episodes due to lack of time and also disregard of supporting characters since the fourth season is the Arthur and Merlin-show. So I agree with TylwythTeg, nevertheless, your thoughts fit - but they would explain the whole thing much better if we got a hint instead of mere speculating. One scene that had provided a reason for Merlin to back off a little would have been enough. Maybe a look or maybe mentioning something in a conversation with Gaius, for example. Just something that would have made us notice that something is wrong, wether only based on Merlin's feelings or on actual odd behaviour on Gwaine's side. But we got nothing at all, only lack of interaction between the two of them.


    Speaking of Merlin's feelings. I think it is far-fetched to make him suddenly feel like an outsider and the knights almost bullying him when there is actually no reason for it. Neither Sir Leon nor Gwaine nor anyone else with the exception for Arthur has ever teased Merlin that way. It was indeed out of the blue and I agree that it wasn't just friendly teasing but actually disrespect and silly puberal behaviour. I don't see why this was necessary just to make Merlin feel like an outsider to give the season a new subplot. Everyone behaved out of character. So it was quite convinient to have Lancelot out of the way since we would have never seen him behave that way. Merlin's place has always been among the servants in Camelot, I just can't believe that he suddenly is discontent and uncomfortable with that. That's why it doesn't make much sense to me that he might have a problem with Gwaine just because he is officially a knight now. Who knows, maybe there was a scene that would explain the whole thing and it was deleted Undecided



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  • Avatar of lilyflower1345

    lilyflower1345

    [145]Nov 16, 2011
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    Tankim wrote:


    What you say is right but I thought (and still think) that it was just not exploring their friendship in those episodes due to lack of time and also disregard of supporting characters since the fourth season is the Arthur and Merlin-show. So I agree with TylwythTeg, nevertheless, your thoughts fit - but they would explain the whole thing much better if we got a hint instead of mere speculating. One scene that had provided a reason for Merlin to back off a little would have been enough. Maybe a look or maybe mentioning something in a conversation with Gaius, for example. Just something that would have made us notice that something is wrong, wether only based on Merlin's feelings or on actual odd behaviour on Gwaine's side. But we got nothing at all, only lack of interaction between the two of them.


    Speaking of Merlin's feelings. I think it is far-fetched to make him suddenly feel like an outsider and the knights almost bullying him when there is actually no reason for it. Neither Sir Leon nor Gwaine nor anyone else with the exception for Arthur has ever teased Merlin that way. It was indeed out of the blue and I agree that it wasn't just friendly teasing but actually disrespect and silly puberal behaviour. I don't see why this was necessary just to make Merlin feel like an outsider to give the season a new subplot. Everyone behaved out of character. So it was quite convinient to have Lancelot out of the way since we would have never seen him behave that way. Merlin's place has always been among the servants in Camelot, I just can't believe that he suddenly is discontent and uncomfortable with that. That's why it doesn't make much sense to me that he might have a problem with Gwaine just because he is officially a knight now. Who knows, maybe there was a scene that would explain the whole thing and it was deleted





    It would definitely be better if we'd gotten a scene showing more of a reason for Merlin backing off. I agree that we don't really have anything concrete to say that Merlin & Gwaine's friendship has cooled off. A lot of what we're doing is speculation. But to me, it does seem to fit that their friendship isn't as strong as it was.


    Maybe it is just a result of Gwaine being busy with the knights and Merlin being busy helping Arthur. If they didn't spend much time together, then it makes sense they wouldn't be as close. After a whole year of that, maybe Merlin no longer thinks of Gwaine as a friend he can go to help. He could still consider him a friend, but not one of those close friends who you go to with problems. And Merlin is a very private person, I think he has trouble asking for help even from those he is very close to. He's used to having to solve problems basically on his own.


    As far as Merlin feeling like an outsider, I agree that I don't think he's suddenly discontented with being a servant. But basically all of his friends except Gwen are "higher-up" than him. The knights get the glory of saving people and protecting Camelot, as well as the privileges that come along with it. Arthur as king gets plenty of glory and privileges. I can see him feeling frustrated with the fact that he never gets any credit, especially when the people he interacts with constantly get it.


    Also many of his friends have 'upgraded' their status. Lancelot, Gwaine, and Elyan went from commoners to knights and obviously Arthur to king. He's seen his friends move on to better things, but he is still in the same place he's been. So I can see him feeling left behind, in a sense.I agree with you though that TPTB could've done a better job at showing this. The bullying/ teasing did feel very sudden. It would have made more sense if there had been some build up to it.

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  • Avatar of PenguinSuzie

    PenguinSuzie

    [147]Nov 16, 2011
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    lilyflower1345 wrote:
    I totally agree that it's a shame for Merlin & Gwaine's friendship to get no screen time or development. I didn't mean to say that they shouldn't I guess what I meant, but didn't really explain very well is that Merlin & Arthur's friendship is the core/focus of the show. At least for me, they're the main reason I watch the show. So it makes sense to me that Merlin & Arthur would get the most development, I wouldn't really want TPTB to focus too much on Merlin & Gwaine if it meant they were ignoring Merlin & Arthur.

    But that doesn't mean they should totally ignore the development of other characters. Sometimes it seems like they do this, so that's why I'm not sure if we'll see much more development with Merlin & Gwaine. I hope I'm wrong. They can still show us these secondary friendships, but not necessarily take a lot of screen time. For example, in the episode where they showed Gwen comforting Merlin. It wasn't necessarily a very long scene, but it still showed their friendship. I hope they'll continue to give us short scenes like this with both Gwen & Gwaine, so we'll see Merlin's other friendships.
    Oh I agree. I never thought you meant they shouldn't get more screen time . I hope we get at least a few Gwaine and Merlin scenes still this season that can build on their previous friendship.
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  • Avatar of lilyflower1345

    lilyflower1345

    [148]Nov 16, 2011
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    PenguinSuzie wrote:
    lilyflower1345 wrote:
    I totally agree that it's a shame for Merlin & Gwaine's friendship to get no screen time or development. I didn't mean to say that they shouldn't I guess what I meant, but didn't really explain very well is that Merlin & Arthur's friendship is the core/focus of the show. At least for me, they're the main reason I watch the show. So it makes sense to me that Merlin & Arthur would get the most development, I wouldn't really want TPTB to focus too much on Merlin & Gwaine if it meant they were ignoring Merlin & Arthur. But that doesn't mean they should totally ignore the development of other characters. Sometimes it seems like they do this, so that's why I'm not sure if we'll see much more development with Merlin & Gwaine. I hope I'm wrong. They can still show us these secondary friendships, but not necessarily take a lot of screen time. For example, in the episode where they showed Gwen comforting Merlin. It wasn't necessarily a very long scene, but it still showed their friendship. I hope they'll continue to give us short scenes like this with both Gwen & Gwaine, so we'll see Merlin's other friendships.
    Oh I agree. I never thought you meant they shouldn't get more screen time . I hope we get at least a few Gwaine and Merlin scenes still this season that can build on their previous friendship.


    Sorry, I guess it was just me misunderstanding. Sounds like we're on the same page. And I hope we get a few more Gwaine & merlin scenes this season too

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  • Avatar of Connor91

    Connor91

    [149]Nov 16, 2011
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    I thought the episode was alright, I'm slowly growing more and more disappointed by series 4 though. It seems like we've gone from series 1 + 2s 'villain of the week' to series 3 + 4s 'morgana's dastardly plot of the week'. I liked how Gwaine suspected Agravaine and liked seeing Agravaine lie his way out of it. I also like the character of Alator and the fact that Gaius did actually reveal Merlin's identity.

    Otherwise I thought it was a pretty average episode.
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    boom-moo

    [151]Nov 16, 2011
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    Connor91 wrote:
    It seems like we've gone from series 1 + 2s 'villain of the week' to series 3 + 4s 'morgana's dastardly plot of the week'.
    Funny how I was just discussing this fact via pm. We've gone from baddie of week to Morgana forming an alliance with baddie of the week. Oh well.
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    ACDiNosey

    [152]Nov 16, 2011
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    I guess Morgana has the drive to get what she wants, but lacks the patience and strategy-building skills that are needed to get there. She's all for quick solutions to big problems and doesn't see much beyond her limited horizon. This season, if it weren't for Agravaine, she wouldn't be doing anything, for lack of information and opportunity.
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  • Avatar of Chayiana

    Chayiana

    [154]Nov 16, 2011
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    Sorry, I for one can totally understand why Merlin is feeling like an outsider, but that doesn't mean he actually is an outsider, not for his friends anyway. These knights just show their friendship differently... in a way Merlin doesn't really understand. They tease each other, they joke around without too much thinking whether others understand that they only showing their friendship this way. And it's not only in this series, it also already happened in series 3. Remember when Arthur punched Merlin in the arm to cheer him up? That's what he does with his knights, it works with them but not with Merlin. Or when Gwaine teased Merlin quite clearly in 3x12 about who should collect the firewood? That's what men do, when they show their friendship (like jaqtkd said)!


    As for Merlin feeling like an outsider, I mean, of course he feels that way now. With Lancelot gone, there's no-one at his age who knows his secret. How else should he feel when he can't talk to anyone properly about what he's going through, and when - on top of that - every friend of his is busy "playing soldier" or becoming King/Queen? But also, Merlin himself is busy, too. Not only he has to run around Arthur, no, he also has to fulfill his destiny, defend the kingdom secretly against Morgana, Agravaine and others and what not... all the while the knights are hanging out with each other, Arthur is trying to be a good king with Gwen at his side. There's not much left for Merlin.


    And as for this scene with Gwaine... with all that I mentioned before and the fact that Arthur and Leon (at this moment) clearly believed in Agravaine's story, Merlin must have thought that Gwaine also believed the accusations against Gaiuse, and that's why (along with him not thinking straight, because he was so worried about Gaius) he reacted defiant, even hostile, when he discovered Gwaine in Gaius' chambers. Maybe Gwaine shouldn't have just entered, maybe he should've waited outside for Merlin. At this point he invaded Merlin's little sanctuary where he would feel near to Gaius. To be honest I would've reacted exactly the same at first. But like Merlin I would've got over it as soon as I realised my friend just wanted to be there for me. And that's what Merlin did, but after all this he's about to be a bit more cautious for the time being and certainly not as cheerful as he used to be, especially with Gaius' fate uncertain.


    Okay, that's how I see it.

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    boom-moo

    [155]Nov 16, 2011
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    'I have faith Arthur will be a great king' statements:
    -Merlin says that he is doing very well and becoming a very good king.
    -Gaius says that there's a wide range of people in Camelot with all sort of beliefs who believe in the world Arthur is trying to create.
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    ACDiNosey

    [156]Nov 18, 2011
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    Having just rewatched the episode, it struck me that the Catha didn't seem to know about the significance of Emrys. I don't think he would have agreed to the mission (and the torture of Gaius) if he had known who Emrys was. Alator only changes his mind after Gaius's revelations, which leads me to believe it is Gaius who convinces him of the relevance of Emrys in the destiny of the five kingdoms...
    So maybe Emrys's legend is purely a druidic one, which would explain why some people know of him and other not.
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    boom-moo

    [159]Nov 18, 2011
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    Apart from Mordred and Iseldir, The Cailleach, The Great Dragon, Taliesin and The Fisher King also know about Emrys. "Emrys" is the name by which the Druids know Merlin but I think that the knowledge about Merlin's destiny is not restricted to the Druids.

    Fashion:

    Merlin:
    -Blue shirt, red scarf and brown jacket with brown underjacket (day 2).
    -Blue shirt, blue scart and maroon jacket (day 3).
    -Blue shirt, red scarf and brown jacket with brown underjacket.
    -Blue shirt, red scarf and brown jacket with brown underjacket (day 4).

    Arthur:
    -Brown pajama pants (day 2).
    -Red shirt.
    -Red shirt with red padded shirt.
    -Red shirt with red padded shirt and chainmail.
    -White shirt.
    -Blue shirt and brown coat (day 3).
    -Red shirt with red padded shirt and chainmail (day 4).

    Morgana:
    -Black dress (day 1).
    -Black dress and black cloak (day 2).
    -Black dress and black cloak (day 3).
    -Black dress and black cloak (day 4).

    Gwen:
    -Blue dress with white underdress (day 3).
    -Blue dress with white underdress (day 4).

    Gaius:
    -Teal and red robe (day 2).
    -Teal and red robe (day 3).
    -White nightgown (day 4).
    -Green robe.
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    ACDiNosey

    [160]Nov 18, 2011
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    I like the fact that Alator is the first one who gives Merlin the "I understand what you go through" speak rather than Merlin giving to yet another persecuted sorcerer.
    Merlin isn't used to bein put in the limelight, and you can see how uncomfortable he actually is when Alator swears allegiance to him on behalf of the Catha. I thought that was a powerful moment, as I don't think Merlin has ever pictured himself as a leader, but only as someone who acts secretly and on his own in the shadows.
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