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BBC (ended 2012)

Episode 4x11 'The Hunter's Heart' discussion thread

  • Avatar of boom-moo

    boom-moo

    [1]Dec 9, 2011
    • member since: 02/05/07
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    Please post your opinions/comments/discussion topics on episode 4x11 "The Hunter's Heart" here.

    -Spoilers are not allowed.
    -Bashing ships/characters is not allowed.
    -Discussion is welcome, arguing is not.
    -Trolls won't be fed, I love my cookies.
    -Be respecful, keep it cool.



    Thank you

    (As per usual, I'll open a discussion thread for every new episode every Friday and keep it locked until Saturday. Past experience shows that comments posted before the episode airs tend to spoil the episode for spoiler free people and also, episode discussion threads that are opened days before their airing date tend to end up buried and reopened by different users which leads to confusion and clutter. Any comments regarding this episode should be done in the Spoilers thread until the episode has aired. Thank you.)

    _________________

    4x11 Masterlists:

    Episode 4x11 magic and spells:
    -Morgana copies the plans of Camelot's siege tunnels (using a spell).
    -Merlin makes Arthur drop his soup (using his mind).
    -Merlin makes Arthur burp twice (using his mind).
    -Morgana blasts Gwen against a tree (using her mind).
    -Morgana transforms Gwen into a deer (using a spell).
    -Merlin can recognize Gwen in the deer (using his mind).
    -Merlin can see Gwen's reflection when the deer walks by a puddle-
    -Merlin deflects the trajectory of Arthur's arrow (using his mind).
    -Merlin heals Gwen's wound (using a spell).

    Episode 4x11 RIP list:
    -Eoghan, killed by Agravaine.

    Episode 4x11 Lives Saved list:
    -Helios saves Gwen's life by preventing one of his men from killing her.
    -Merlin saves Gwen's life by deflecting the trajectory of Arthur's arrow.
    -Merlin saves Gwen's life by healing her wound.

    What Arthur calls Merlin:
    -Wise, prating fool.

    What Merlin calls Arthur:
    -Noble, the Once and Future King.

    Times Sir Leon says "Sire":
    -One.

    Liar, liar:
    -Gwen lies to Helios about what had happened to her in the past.
    -Gwen lies to Helios about being tired.
    -Merlin lies about not minding Arthur ordering him around.

    Arthur's attributes to being the great king of legend:
    -He is considerate to Princess Mithian by suggesting alternative plans for her on the day of the hunt.
    -He thanks those who take orders from him on a job well done.
    -He negotiates a fair and honourable agreement to settle ancient claims over disputed lands.
    -He likes and respects Princess Mithian and wants to make their marriage a success. -He knows that Merlin will only defy his orders when the situtaton is grave.
    -He is not afraid to express his doubts to Merlin. He asks him for advice and thanks him.
    -He follows his heart believing it to be right.
    -He asks Mithian for forgiveness after calling off the wedding. He offers her and her descendants the disputed lands as a way to avoid war and grieving her any further.

    Arthur is knocked unconscious or prevented from knowing about Merlin's magic:
    -He is busy chatting with Princess Mithian to notice Merlin's pranks.
    -He thinks it's the crossbow's fault when he misses the deer.

    What Arthur says about magic:
    -Nothing.

    Potions made by Gaius:
    -None.

    Gaius's smacks:
    -None.

    'I have faith Arthur will be a great king' statements:
    -Merlin says to him: "You're Arthur, you're noble, the Once and Future King."

    Merlin and Great Dragon meetings:
    -None.

    Great Dragon's riddles:
    -None.

    Morgana's premonitory dreams:
    -None.

    Morgana's smirks of doom:
    -None.

    Agravaine's advances on Morgana:
    -None.

    Arthur and Gwen moments:
    -Merlin thinks that it is too soon for Arthur to move on from Gwen and marry another woman.
    -Arthur has asked Merlin not to mention Guinevere's name and gets angry when Merlin points out that he still loves her.
    -Gwen wears Arthur's engagement ring on a string around her neck. She often holds it and kisses it remembering.
    -Knowing that to return to Camelot means death, Gwen has no doubts to warn Arthur about Morgana's plans.
    -When Arthur finds Gwen's engagement ring his mood saddens and he puts an end to the hunting.
    -Merlin tells Gwen that Arthur wants to see her. She says that she cannot ever see Arthur again because she has betrayed him. She has what she deserves and insists Merlin must leave her to alert Arthur of the danger.
    -Arthur still loves Gwen despite her betrayal.
    -Merlin tells him that no one would sacrifice more for Camelot or Arthur than Gwen.
    -Arthur follows his heart by remaining true to his feelings for Gwen and calls off the wedding with princess Mithian.
    -Gwen is no one and everyone to Arthur. Without her, his kingship and Kingdom are worth nothing to him.
    -Princess Mithian would give up her own kingdom to be loved as Arthur loves Gwen.
    -Arthur thinks he might be doomed to be a bachelor as he doesn't believe he will ever see Gwen again. He wonders what is the point of loving someone who cannot be found. Merlin assures him that they will find each other.

    Chestporns/Bodyporns:
    -Gwen's see-through outfit.
    -Helios's armporn.
    -Arthur's revealing white shirt.

    Dungeon time:
    -None.

    Fashion:

    Merlin:
    -Blue shirt, blue scarf and maroon jacket (day 1).
    -Red shirt, blue scarf and brown jacket with brown underjacket (day 2).
    -Red shirt, blue scarf and brown jacket with brown underjacket (day 3).
    -Blue shirt with red scarf (day 4).
    -Blue shirt, red scarf and brown jacket with brown underjacket.
    -Blue shirt, red scarf and brown jacket with brown underjacket (day 5).

    Arthur:
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail with Camelot cloak (day 1).
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail with Camelot cloak and crown #3.
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail (day 2).
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail with Camelot cloak.
    -White shirt with brown coat (day 3).
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail with Camelot cloak (day 4).
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail (day 5).
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail with Camelot cloak and crown #3 (day 6).
    -White shirt.

    Morgana:
    -Black dress (day 1).
    -Black dress and black cloak.
    -Black dress (day 2).
    -Black dress and black cloak (day 3).
    -Black dress and black cloak (day 4).

    Gwen:
    -Season 1 red dress with white underdress. Hair down (day 1).
    -Purple outfit with with see-through midriff and black veil. Hair back and down.
    -Purple outfit with with see-through midriff and black veil. Hair back and down (day 3).
    -Purple outfit with with see-through midriff. Hair back and down (day 4).
    -Purple outfit with with see-through midriff. Hair back and down (day 5).

    Gaius:
    -Green robe (day 1).
    -Green robe (day 2).
    -Maroon robe (day 4).

    Edited on 07/18/2012 7:35am
    Edited 4 total times.
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  • Avatar of ACDiNosey

    ACDiNosey

    [2]Dec 10, 2011
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    I really really enjoyed this episode. The plot was well thought out and didn't go the way I expected.


    I really liked Princess Mithian and felt very sorry for her. She was a very likeable princess, not as clumsy as Elena but not too princessy either. She was also a very good judge of character and it was nice to see a nice woman who is not plotting doom.


    I liked the fact that Arthur needed nothing but his conscience and latent love for Gwen (in spite of the perceived betrayal) to break off the wedding. I think Mithian was spot on when she said to Merlin that Arthur valued his opinion. I think Merlin's disapproval confirmed to Arthur that dropping off the wedding was a good idea...


    Gwen was excellent. I really liked the fact that she remained consistent with 4x09 and still thinks she's betrayed Arthur. She's doing all the right things for him and Camelot and remains in the shadows until the time comes when someone will find out. I'm sort of glad they are dragging this out a bit and exploring the characters' behaviours and love for each other without knowing the truth about the betrayal.


    The hunt scene was very well portrayed and the way it was broken off by Arthur finding the ring was well done. I really liked Merlin's apologetic look to Mithian.


    Even Morgana was good and believable in this episode, and Agravaine is most aggravating


    I'm sure more things will come back to me as I rewatch, but all in all, a very very strong episode, amongst the best of S4 for me.

    Edited on 12/10/2011 1:05pm
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  • Avatar of BrightlyLit

    BrightlyLit

    [3]Dec 10, 2011
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    I Loved it. LOVED IT. I could not have asked for more. I didn't want a rushed reunion because after all this, a hurry up wedding at the end would not have done it for me. But this...so perfect IMO. I wanted, as I've said on the spoiler thread, that Arthur would make a choice for Gwen BEFORE finding out her innocence and this is exactly what is happening. They only went that far; not one scene of the two of them together, but Arwen was ever the focus of the entire episode. I think this new writer did a fabulous job of bringing the two of them together without once seeing them physically together. It had to happen with Arthur - and she did right by not going back with Merlin.


    I loved the scene in the forest between Gwen and Morgana and what happened with the ring. What a perfect way to do it-to shake Arthur back to where his heart was. And that last scene could not have been more perfect for me. I have to admit, I was in tears through much of this episode. It affected my Arwen heart more than any of their romantic scenes together.


    And you were left feeling more confident than ever that they would find each other and overcome Morgana and everything else thrown in their path. For me, this was the best Arthur/Gwen episode of the entire four years.

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  • Avatar of boom-moo

    boom-moo

    [4]Dec 10, 2011
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    Eh? I don't know where my comment go

    Anyway, shorter one this time. I'm in tune with the previous comments, I like how this new writer has picked up on the the AG situation and moved it a step forward by just having them stay true to their feelings without rushing a face to face meeting. The fact that both Arthur and Gwen believe that the betrayal happened is what keeps them apart and not switching affections or resentful hearts. It was nice to get an insight to what goes on through their hearts and minds without the need for dramatic dialogue: the ring passing from Gwen's hands to Arthur's was simply beautiful.

    I didn't like neither Arthur threatening Merlin with exile nor Merlin trying to sway Arthur towards Gwen. I felt for Mithian when Merlin played unfair tricks during the picnic scene as she seemed genuinely smitten with Arthur and had been nice to Merlin. I think that Merlin should have given Arthur some room and cut Mithian some slack although I wonder if Arthur would have gone through with the wedding shouldn't he have found the ring, if his heart would have spoken louder the closer to the wedding with Mithian and if the same doubts would have assaulted him without the ring acting as a reminder of who his true love is.

    I was glad to see Arthur seeking Merlin's advice at the end despite not having trusted him before on other matters (if only he wouldn't need to see to believe!). I think that he needed reassurance more than anything (if he would have wanted to marry Mithian then he would have had that conversation with Agravaine) and that as Merlin pointed out, the fact that he was having second thoughts meant that he had already made up his mind.

    So far, listening to his heart and being true to himself has helped Arthur make the right decision. Now he needs to learn who to trust. Only then, the issue of magic could be tackled as it should.
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  • Avatar of Wonder_

    Wonder_

    [5]Dec 10, 2011
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    Good episode, a bit of a cliffy at the end!


    I'm a little confused what exactly happened with the siege tunnel plans, though. Did Agravaine take them to Morgana then bring them back, or something? What exactly did Morgana do when she used magic on them?


    And I love Merlin and Gwen's friendship!

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  • Avatar of boom-moo

    boom-moo

    [6]Dec 10, 2011
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    Morgana used magic to copy them so Agravaine could restore the originals.
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  • Avatar of XyFan

    XyFan

    [7]Dec 10, 2011
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    BUUUUUUURRRRRPPPP!

    Great idea to turn Qwen into a dear, well i liked it. And i loved Merlin in this episode. And next episode will be finale, or 2 more episodes left?
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  • Avatar of smilegreen

    smilegreen

    [8]Dec 10, 2011
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    I quite enjoyed that episode and am very anxious for the next two. Concerning Arthur's (non-serious?) threat to banish Merlin.. do you think it could possibly be fore-shadowing..? The non-conversation with Gaius and Merlin asking why he should even bother.. Gaius not replying.. and then those scenes of Merlin wondering if he should intervene plus Gaius saying it was arrogant. I do believe Merlin's starting to also ask 'How can Arthur completely be the wise once and future king if I'm here to save his neck every time and he doesn't even know?'

    I would really love it if Merlin did leave for a while and went to discover his own powers and develop them... I'm very excited for the next episodes!!
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  • Avatar of boom-moo

    boom-moo

    [9]Dec 10, 2011
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    XyFan wrote:
    Great idea to turn Qwen into a dear, well i liked it.
    Make that a deer

    XyFan wrote:
    And next episode will be finale, or 2 more episodes left?
    There are two more episodes left, that make for a double parter finale.
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    PenguinSuzie

    [10]Dec 10, 2011
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    I really enjoyed this episode. I liked Mithian. G/M and M/A interactions were good (Though like Boom-moo said, I too disliked how Arthur threatened Merlin with exile, mocked him and how Merlin acted towards Mithian. I'd also have liked him to have talked to Merlin about his plans). I really liked the Gwen and Merlin scenes together.


    I feel it's a pity that the Morgana and Gwen confrontation was so short.


    You know how it was mentioned that it was a well knocked over at the start. I think it was actually either a cover for one or a stand of some sort. Similar things are lined up down the path at the start.


    smilegreen wrote:
    I would really love it if Merlin did leave for a while and went to discover his own powers and develop them
    I'd really like that too. As long as we got to see it.

    Edited on 12/10/2011 5:12pm
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  • Avatar of dpebbleson

    dpebbleson

    [11]Dec 10, 2011
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    Hmm, this wasn't one of my favourite episode...

    In a spirit of positive appreciation I will start with the things I liked:

    - Agravaine's nefarious plan which was really clever;

    - The first scene between Guinevere and Morgana in which Guinevere had to hide her face with a veil, it was very intense;

    - The hunting scene with all the sounds and yelling;

    - Guinevere as a deer, almost ending up as Bambi's mother.

    The things I didn't like so much:

    - Arthur and Mithian's scenes fell very flat for me, I don't think highly either of acting or writing when these scenes are concerned...

    - I also wondered why Mithian would start caring about Merlin's opinion and how was it that she figured out so fast that Merlin was Arthur's person of confidence...

    - Why didn't Guinevere wonder where her wound had disappeared?

    - Concerning Guinevere, it was a shame the conversation between her and Morgana was so short.

    - Helios' remark of 'there is still some pleasure to be had there' was discordant with him treating Guinevere as a lady. I'd have expected a quite different treatment. Then again, there was a point shown that Helios wasn't as barbaric as it seemed.

    - The whole episode looked like a collection of patched up scenes. For example, Gaius figured out something, but did we find out what was it that he figured out? Maybe we do in the next episode, though.

    ---

    Some speculation:

    - Did you perhaps notice how Morgana and Helios' relationship sort of mirrored Morgause's and Cenred's? I'm expecting for her to murder him as soon as she sits on the throne.

    - Will Guinevere actually figure out that Merlin has magic?

    ---

    The trailer, however was magnificent and promising. Can't wait for the next week!
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  • Avatar of boom-moo

    boom-moo

    [12]Dec 10, 2011
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    PenguinSuzie wrote:

    You know how it was mentioned that it was a well knocked over at the start. I think it was actually either a cover for one or a stand of some sort. Similar things are lined up down the path at the start.

    I don't think they are wells at all either. They have rabbits and stuff hanging from the roof/cover thing. I think they are stands to sell goods or something.

    I forgot to mention that Arthur says to have known Agravaine since he was a kid so it sounds like he's been somehow a regular presence in his life.

    Also Merlin tells Arthur that he is the 'once and future king' and Arthur doesn't even reply to that remark. I found that surprising.

    Am I the only one who would have liked Merlin to ask Gwen where did she plan to go before leaving her? I don't know, she is left totally on her own, with no means at all, threatened by Morgana and the Southron army (even if they think her dead)... I don't know. I expected Merlin to have shown a bit more care before leaving Gwen to her fate.
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  • Avatar of JJuna

    JJuna

    [13]Dec 10, 2011
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    This was a beautiful episode, brilliantly written and directed. There were so many wonderful moments that it is difficult to select highlights. The Gwen in peril storyline was very well handled from the opening encounter with Helios, the moment of tension in the corridor, the visually striking chase through the woods and the doe enchantment which was very sensitively done. The scene between Merlin and Gwen was also wonderful.


    The princess was a very sympathetic and likeable character. She seemed down to earth, intelligent and perceptive, immediately noticing Merlin's importance to Arthur. The scenes between the princess and Merlin/Arthur were all brilliant. I think Merlin realized her outstanding qualities and under different circumstances would have been more accepting. It's significant that he tried to put her off Arthur, in order to save her from pain. She was magnanimous in her final scene with Arthur and left a positive impression.


    Arthur's dawning realization and the unspoken understanding between him and Merlin when he found the ring were breathtaking to watch. The scene where he appealed to Merlin for help was touching. He was not afraid to show his confusion and vulnerability and Merlin responded with great maturity, showing how he has grown in confidence as an advisor.


    On the downside, I did not like Arthur threatening to exile Merlin (twice!) in this episode, and his gullibility regarding Agravaine is becoming ridiculous.


    However, overall this was a moving and powerful episode, full of exceptional dialogue. For me, it is the most memorable of the series so far.




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  • Avatar of boom-moo

    boom-moo

    [14]Dec 10, 2011
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    dpebbleson wrote:
    Hmm, - Why didn't Guinevere wonder where her wound had disappeared?
    Yeah, that was She remembered having been enchanted but not wounded? Hmm...

    dpebbleson wrote:
    - The whole episode looked like a collection of patched up scenes. For example, Gaius figured out something, but did we find out what was it that he figured out? Maybe we do in the next episode, though.
    I had that "patched" feeling too particularly towards the end. In one scene Arthur is threatening Merlin with exile (for the second time) and in the literally next one, Arthur is seeking his advice about marrying the princess.
    dpebbleson wrote:
    - Will Guinevere actually figure out that Merlin has magic?
    She has some clues alreaady, she might figure it out for herself although I don't think it's gonna happen yet.
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  • Avatar of JJuna

    JJuna

    [15]Dec 10, 2011
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    boom-moo wrote:
    dpebbleson wrote:
    Hmm, - Why didn't Guinevere wonder where her wound had disappeared?
    Yeah, that was She remembered having been enchanted but not wounded? Hmm...
    dpebbleson wrote:
    - The whole episode looked like a collection of patched up scenes. For example, Gaius figured out something, but did we find out what was it that he figured out? Maybe we do in the next episode, though.
    I had that "patched" feeling too particularly towards the end. In one scene Arthur is threatening Merlin with exile (for the second time) and in the literally next one, Arthur is seeking his advice about marrying the princess.


    Those inconsistencies didn't worry me so much this time, as I enjoyed the episode so much Perhaps Gwen will remember later, and maybe Gaius' discovery will be revealed. I'd also give Arthur the benefit of the doubt and say that his behaviour was due to emotional turmoil.



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  • Avatar of spicegirl188

    spicegirl188

    [16]Dec 10, 2011
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    I officially love the writer of tonight's episode. The way it was centered around A/G without any actual scenes together was really well done. I liked Mithian's character but A/G all the way. The way in which they showed another side to Helios regarding his dinner definitely added to his character in the sense that he is not all destruction. Although i find it amusing how Gwen manages to charm just about every man she comes in contact with, lol. By far one of my favorite episodes!!!

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    PenguinSuzie

    [17]Dec 10, 2011
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    I was thinking that maybe Merlin healed it but not completely. So that she'd think the arrow had just hit at an angle that caused her a lot of distress at the time, but wasn't as bad as it really had been. Rather than there being no evidence that she'd been shot at all when she woke up.

    I really wanted Gwen as the deer to witness Merlin using magic to save her. With the situation being so desperate that he resorted to risking her seeing so that he could save her. I also wondered at the time if she heard him while she was lying down, but I'm sure she didn't as she seemed cheerful when awake and seemed to have been unconscious in a painful dream like way.

    It was nice that Arthur actually liked the princess rather than being overly reluctant to spend any time with her etc.
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    boom-moo

    [18]Dec 10, 2011
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    I don't think that Gwen hears Merlin's healing spell at all, her reaction when she wakes up doesn't acknowledge that. And it's true that we can't tell if her wound is fully healed or not (we actually don't get to see her standing up after she is healed), but she doesn't even grimace when she sits up to hug Merlin.

    PenguinSuzie wrote:
    It was nice that Arthur actually liked the princess rather than being overly reluctant to spend any time with her etc.
    Yeah, I loved how relieved he looked when she pulls the veil off her face and reveals to be a pretty woman Lol

    The fact that Mithian is beautiful and has a personality that matches Arthur's quite well (she loves going hunting, she doesn't mind about Arthur throwing his soup or burping, etc) only emphasizes the most that Gwen is the one Arthur loves when all of Mithian's charms aren't enough to make him get over Gwen.

    Poor Mithian though, she sounds so alone and miserable. Good of her to see true love and to accept Arthur's terms and leave in peace. Gotta give her that much.
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    blindmuse

    [19]Dec 10, 2011
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    boom-moo wrote:
    dpebbleson wrote:
    Hmm, - Why didn't Guinevere wonder where her wound had disappeared?
    Yeah, that was She remembered having been enchanted but not wounded? Hmm...
    dpebbleson wrote:
    - The whole episode looked like a collection of patched up scenes. For example, Gaius figured out something, but did we find out what was it that he figured out? Maybe we do in the next episode, though.
    I had that "patched" feeling too particularly towards the end. In one scene Arthur is threatening Merlin with exile (for the second time) and in the literally next one, Arthur is seeking his advice about marrying the princess.
    dpebbleson wrote:
    - Will Guinevere actually figure out that Merlin has magic?
    She has some clues alreaady, she might figure it out for herself although I don't think it's gonna happen yet.


    My take on those two things were that Gwen remembered being enchanted but did not remember the exact details - if she fully remembered being the deer and being struck, she would have known why Morgana wasn't there anymore.


    As for Arthur's threats, I think there was a little bit of consistancy in that Merlin seemed reluctant at first to offer his advice...when he was like "is there anything else, sire". It seemed kind of like Merlin was trying to make a point by not volunteering his wisdom, but his love for Arthur won out when he saw that he was so upset. Arthur's respect of Merlin only when it counts for him is not really a new thing - which is a great source of annoyance for Merlin throughout the series.

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    lilyflower1345

    [20]Dec 10, 2011
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    I liked this episode. I'm relieved that they didn't rush getting Arthur and Gwen together. I was expecting them to be back together by the end of this episode. But I'm glad they didn't do that. I also loved that we got to see Arthur choose Gwen even though he still believes she betrayed him. Though this episode makes me really want everyone to know that Gwen was enchanted. The line where Gwen says she has what she deserves is heartbreaking.


    I also liked the scene where Mithian says to Merlin that she knows Arthur depends on Merlin's opinion the most. I liked that they showed an outsider recognizing that right away. Though it was frustrating to contrast this with Arthur threatening to exile Merlin. It bothered me that Arthur would even consider doing that to Merlin. But I guess Arthur was pretty upset in this episode. .When Merlin tells him Agravaine is betraying them, I'm sure he feels like he can't even consider the thought of someone else betraying him. So I can somewhat understand why Arthur reacted so strongly, but it still frustrates me.


    It seemed a bit weird to me where Merlin tells Arthur he's the once and future king. It seemed rather out of the blue to me. Arthur didn't really react much when Merlin said that. Though I guess Arthur doesn't realize the importance of that title. It would be interesting if they have Arthur find out later on about the prophecies of Emyrs and the once and future king and remember that Merlin called him that.


    PenguinSuzie wrote:
    I really wanted Gwen as the deer to witness Merlin using magic to save her. With the situation being so desperate that he resorted to risking her seeing so that he could save her.


    I was hoping for this as well. The part where Merlin recognizes the deer is Gwen, it seemed like Gwen as the deer recognized Merlin as well. So I was hoping that she would have seen Merlin do magic. But Gwen didn't seem to remember very clearly being the deer, so I guess Gwen isn't likely to figure out anything from this. It feels like there's been a lot of moments where it seems like someone should have figured out Merlin has magic. I hope someone finds out about Merlin's magic soon.


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