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BBC (ended 2012)

Episode 4x12 'The Sword In The Stone Part 1' discussion thread

  • Avatar of rtms

    rtms

    [41]Dec 17, 2011
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    ACDiNosey wrote:
    Random though, but after weeks and months of not knowing, it looks like Cenred's kingdom is now Lot's kingdom... I guess the Pendragons were too busy hiding Uther's weak mindstate to try and take over the kingdom, but I can't understand why Morgana didn't take it... After all, "A kingdom without a king is ripe for the picking...".


    Except it doesn't make sense since Cenreds kingdom was to the east and this was to the North. I think it was a continuity mistake.

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  • Avatar of smilegreen

    smilegreen

    [42]Dec 17, 2011
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    boom-moo wrote:
    smilegreen wrote:


    I wonder why they made that strange shot to look like Agravaine has blasted Elyan with magic. Maybe it was just me who saw it like that but I almost did get excited with the idea of Agravaine having magic. I mean, why exactly did he have those magic books hidden under his bed in 4x07? Ah well don't think we're going to see much of him any longer.


    I don't think that he has magic at all. He was keeping the books to plant them and use them against people and you aren't alone in seeing the scene where Elyan is blasted as if Agravaine had done it, I think it was totally intended for the effect right before it's revealed that it's all Morgana's doing.


    Yes, I don't think he has magic either. I also haven't followed closely the whole Morgana's parents and their friends debate but I thought eh.. maybe he could have magical blood as well that's not manifested or something. Are Morgana and Agravaine related at all? Or is it because she's the half-sister to Arthur, Ygraine's not the common parent and so he's not actually her uncle?

    Lol I must have forgotten what happened in 4x07. I thought he planted the really evil ones in Gaius' chambers and then kept some for himself for light-reading. lol. It's just I think I remember the titles being something like 'A guide to magic'. He's always quite in awe when watching Morgana perform magic.


    I'm actually starting to feel quite sorry for Agravaine!! Maybe it's in light of a possible impending doom and his unrequited love for Morgana lol.

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    lilyflower1345

    [43]Dec 17, 2011
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    That's pretty funny about the shoe continuity problem. I didn't notice that, but I'll have to go find that. I liked the episode. I really liked the Merlin/Arthur scene in the wood where Arthur realizes Merlin was right. I'm so glad that Arthur wasn't enchanted at that point. It made me wonder how the magic reveal is going to go down whenever it happens. The part where Arthur says something like "I keep getting betrayed by people I care about " was a little heartbreaking, especially considering how he'll likely feel when he discovers Merlin's magic. I wonder if part of TPTB's 'goal' of this scene was to build suspense for the magic reveal. That's certainly what it did for me.


    I really liked seeing Hunith again, though it felt too short. The part where Merlin apologizes to Hunith for it being so long implies that he hasn't really visited her since season 1. I've been curious about that, wondering if Merlin visits her. So it was nice to get that question answered. Is Hunith played by the same actor in season 1? She looked different to me, but I'm not sure if I'm just imagining that.


    The scene with Gwen & Arthur felt a bit awkward to me, maybe that's just because I really want them both to know Gwen was enchanted. With how Arthur spoke of remembering Gwen's betrayal at the feast, it seemed a little sudden for him to just hug her like that. Also, I was surprised Gwen would have waited by Arthur's bedside like that. From the last episode she acted like she was terrified to face Arthur again. But I suppose she was worried about him with what's going on. Maybe once I re-watch the scene it won't feel off to me.


    Does anyone think its possible that Morgana enchanted Agravaine to be in love with her? I've wonder if she could have. We haven't really gotten much of a hint of this. But I just can't figure out why he loves her. To me he seems to really be in love with her, he doesn't seem to be playing her along. But she treats him pretty horribly, so its hard to figure out why.

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    boom-moo

    [44]Dec 17, 2011
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    smilegreen wrote:

    I also haven't followed closely the whole Morgana's parents and their friends debate but I thought eh.. maybe he could have magical blood as well that's not manifested or something. Are Morgana and Agravaine related at all? Or is it because she's the half-sister to Arthur, Ygraine's not the common parent and so he's not actually her uncle?

    Morgana is Uther's and Vivian's daughter and Agravaine is Ygraine's sister so they aren't related at all.
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  • Avatar of smilegreen

    smilegreen

    [45]Dec 17, 2011
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    ^ Ok lol they just both have dark hair so it was just sub-conscious that made me think they were related. I still find his feelings for her creepy though. I somehow don't think he's enchanted though and yes I don't understand why he's in love with her. Infatuation for a pretty face? Or deeper?

    Entirely superficial but Hunith looks so pretty. I think the actor is the same and she has very nice wrinkle-less skin.
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    boom-moo

    [46]Dec 17, 2011
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    Yes, Caline Faber has played Hunith from season 1 She is very good at playing an affectionate mother to Merlin, I particularly like her body language, the way she holds Merlin really close, the strokes and kisses. Too bad we didn't get much of it but hey.
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  • Avatar of smilegreen

    smilegreen

    [47]Dec 17, 2011
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    Let's just hope she's not killed off. I remember someone saying in the spoilers section - both Arthur's parents were killed by magic and (if Hunith does die somehow due to this take-over) Merlin's parents were both killed by Pendragons. That's just lovely. (not the dying part, the sort of poetic-ness and irony)

    No wait.. would Agravaine/Morgana still be an incestuous pairing if it did happen? It's just not a direct blood-line...

    Arthur's uncle is Agravaine
    Arthur is Morgana's half-sister
    So.. Morgana would be sort of related to Agravaine?

    Ok lol I need to stop thinking about this pairing as I just find it very wrong in the first place.
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  • Avatar of boom-moo

    boom-moo

    [48]Dec 17, 2011
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    Agravaine is Arthur's uncle on his mother's side.
    Morgan is Arthur's half-sister on his father's side.

    Not a single blood drop in common between Agravaine and Morgana

    Episode 4x12 magic and spells:
    -Morgana blasts Elyan off (using her mind).
    -Merlin magnifies the fire in two torches (using a spell).
    -Merlin gets control of Arthur's will (using a spell).
    -Morgana blasts Arthur, Merlin, Elyan and Percival (using a spell).
    -Morgana makes the Nathair torture Elyan (using a spell).
    -Merlin makes a cart roll (using his mind) and sets in on fire (using a spell).
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  • Avatar of lilyflower1345

    lilyflower1345

    [49]Dec 17, 2011
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    boom-moo wrote:
    Yes, Caline Faber has played Hunith from season 1 She is very good at playing an affectionate mother to Merlin, I particularly like her body language, the way she holds Merlin really close, the strokes and kisses. Too bad we didn't get much of it but hey.



    Okay, I guess I was just imagining things then. Thanks for answering my question I agree, I think she did a good job. It's true we didn't get very much of Merlin & Hunith, which makes me sad. But at least we got to see Hunith again. I'm glad that they had continuity here, it makes perfect sense that Merlin would lead them to his home village to hide.

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  • Avatar of boom-moo

    boom-moo

    [50]Dec 17, 2011
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    lilyflower1345 wrote:

    I'm glad that they had continuity here, it makes perfect sense that Merlin would lead them to his home village to hide.

    And also since Arthur stood up for them in 1x10, they owed him that much.
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    PenguinSuzie

    [51]Dec 17, 2011
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    smilegreen wrote:
    He's always quite in awe when watching Morgana perform magic.
    He's always looked uncomfortable around it to me. Also he got quite angry when Arthur mentioned magic in EP3. He's probably a bit in awe though anyway.

    I do wonder if Morgana's lack of affection towards him at all will come back to bite her. He seemed pretty horrified about her actions and his goodbye sounded awfully like he didn't expect or plan to come back. I don't think that's the case but it did seem a lot like that.
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    legend-dreamer

    [52]Dec 17, 2011
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    What really stood out for me was when Arthur and Merlin used the crossbows. Arthur didn't flinch or make any comment about Merlin's ability to use the crossbow. He just fought Agravaine and the Southrons with Merlin by his side. He wasn't simpleton Arthur anymore, so I was expecting a quizzical look or comment about Merlin using the crossbow.It was nice to see an acknowledgement, however small, of Merlin's fighting capabilities.


    I guess Merlin's crossbow "practice" from episode 6 came in handy?!?


    I really loved the A/G reunion. When Arthur wakes up to find Gwen beside him, so little was said verbally between them and yet so much was said by their embrace. I am sure he had thought over the words Tristan said about Isolde: "Well, I may have lost my cargo, but I still have my beloved Isolde." and his own response to Tristan "Then you're richer than you know."

    Edited on 12/17/2011 10:02pm
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  • Avatar of XyFan

    XyFan

    [53]Dec 17, 2011
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    This episode was so funny. It had so many awesome scenes. Dumb Arthur for the win. Just look at him!




    And I wonder what will happen to Justin and that woman he was with, seemed like they were being a little left behind in the end. I hope they don't die, cause Arthur still needs to prove them that he is a good king!

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  • Avatar of lilyflower1345

    lilyflower1345

    [54]Dec 17, 2011
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    legend-dreamer wrote:


    I really loved the A/G reunion. When Arthur wakes up to find Gwen beside him, so little was said verbally between them and yet so much was said by their embrace. I am sure he had thought over the words Tristan said about Isolde: "Well, I may have lost my cargo, but I still have my beloved Isolde." and his own response to Tristan "Then you're richer than you know."



    That's a good point. First watching it I thought Gwen & Arthur's embrace was rather sudden considering what they'd both said in 4x11. And it still feels that way to me some. But Arthur could have thought over Tristan's words and realized he still needed Gwen despite everything that happened. That does seem like a logical explanation. It makes me feel better to feel like there was at least some explanation.

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    MichelleForsy

    [55]Dec 18, 2011
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    PenguinSuzie wrote:
    smilegreen wrote:
    He's always quite in awe when watching Morgana perform magic.
    He's always looked uncomfortable around it to me. Also he got quite angry when Arthur mentioned magic in EP3. He's probably a bit in awe though anyway. I do wonder if Morgana's lack of affection towards him at all will come back to bite her. He seemed pretty horrified about her actions and his goodbye sounded awfully like he didn't expect or plan to come back. I don't think that's the case but it did seem a lot like that.


    When he did his goodbye, I thought he was going to track Arthur do and then turncoat against Morgana.

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  • Avatar of Chayiana

    Chayiana

    [56]Dec 18, 2011
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    Apart from the clothes issues and that IMO Gwaine's fight has been a tiny little bit dragged out, I absolutely loved this ep!


    Simpleton!Arthur was just adorable, only a fool can be so honest and humble... It was as if Merlin stripped all his arrogance, pride and pratiness from him with that spell, and all what's left is just someone who needs his friend to guide him, something that the "real" Arthur might know deep, deep down.


    Oh, and I so loved when Merlin took charge of almost everything, and that everyone followed his orders without a single doubt.


    Loved the A/G reunion, just simple and true.


    Loved that Percival almost choked on his wine, when Merlin mentioned the holes in Arthur's belt!


    Loved Merlin's and Hunith's reunion, although there really could've been more of those two.


    And to my own surprise, I really loved Morgana in this ep, her confidence and cruelty was quite overwhelming. Surprised


    Gosh, they really left us on the edge, didn't they? We don't know what happened to Gwaine, to Gaius and Elyan, to Percival, to Leon, to Hunith and Ealdor (don't they dare to harm Hunith!), and of course to Merlin and the others... they're all seperated from each other... the suspense is killing me!


    There's only one thing I really have to complain about... they managed to mess up the whole geography of Camelot! I mean, I wouldn't care if King Lot(h?) took over Cenred's kingdom, that I could understand, but what I don't understand is, why Ealdor suddenly lies in the north (when it's always been to the east of Camelot), and why Merlin says Ealdor would be "beyond the White Mountains" which lie in the west of Camelot. Maybe they should've had a look at the map of Camelot, which they showed us quite often in this series.


    Finally, I've got some brilliant news: "The Sword in the Stome, part1" got 7,19 million viewers over night. This is by far the highest overnight rating ever!!!



    Additional note:


    boom-moo wrote:
    I had to lol at the sandals suddenly morphing into rain boots


    OMG! I just saw that! They're actual wellies! That's not very medieval, isn't it? They must have missed it while editing, maybe like the beer cans in 2x04. I'm wondering if they're gonna cut them out on the DVDs like they did with the beer cans... ^^

    Edited on 12/18/2011 4:16am
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  • Avatar of ACDiNosey

    ACDiNosey

    [57]Dec 18, 2011
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    boom-moo wrote:
    Agravaine is Ygraine's sister so they aren't related at all.
    rotflmao, another cross-dresser then?
    boom-rtms wrote:
    Except it doesn't make sense since Cenreds kingdom was to the east and this was to the North. I think it was a continuity mistake.
    I know, although on the map of Camelot, it looks like Cenred's kingdom also extends to the north-east... It also depends where they are in the woods when Merlin tells them to go North... They may well have gone quite a way east and now need to go North...

    Edited on 12/18/2011 5:51am
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  • Avatar of pcdsa

    pcdsa

    [58]Dec 18, 2011
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    Great start. All the knights were wonderful. Yes, Arthur hugging the tree was delightful but I'm glad he didn't stay dumb for long. Sad to see him realise that he has been betrayed by everyone he cared about. I enjoyed Morgana at her most evil and it was good to see Hunith. Still not sure where A/G goes from here, it seems too much will happen in the final episode for the betrayal to be resolved. Can't wait though to see the Great Dragon and the iconic Arthur and the Sword in the Stone moment.

    M calls A: rude, thoughtless, insensitive, simpleton, honest, brave, true-hearted
    A calls M: simpleton
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    arwyn-t

    [59]Dec 18, 2011
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    I've posted a huge review in my Live Journal, I don't think I should copy/paste it all here, so I'll just go for my final points:


    Arthur is a simpleton, he's a coward that denies who he is, he's half-wit, he doesn't question much after he regains his mind and he and his kind bring nothing but misery to the land. Is it me, or do others feel uncomfortable with all those things too? Arthur was enchanted into a simpleton, he was enchanted into a coward, he's not half-wit but misinformed most of the time, it's the plot that requires him not to question and the misery is the opinion of a gold-loving smuggler. All in all, Arthur in this episode is a most abused character, manipulated and twisted for plot. And what is the main plot point?

    Merlin cannot show his magic.

    -sigh-

    I've had enough.

    It's not Arthur or Merlin who is the coward. It's the writers. The writers don't have the intelligence to write something fresh and solid and they don't have the guts to do the reveal. They choose the easy and silly ways out, they ignore common logic and continuity and think they are the best. Well, not to me.

    This episode felt like different pieces loosely put together. It had no depth. And in the end, I felt guilty for having laughed, because people back in Camelot were, well, dying meanwhile. Unlike 3x12 where the feeling of dread was there, 4x12 is like "ooh, Camelot is down and Arthur is playing the simpleton". Excuse me?

    I have very low expectations of the finale. A thousand Excaliburs drawn by a thousand Arthurs are not enough, if The Reveal doesn't happen. This simpleton servant to a misinformed ignorant King has gone on WAY too long. The series needs to grow up, to mature. Slow-motion looks epic, but is just a cheap trick. Well written, consistent scripts are what give the episodes solid foundations and depth. So far, I've seen very few of those and 4x12 certainly is not.

    I'm not expecting 4x13 to be either…


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    boom-moo

    [60]Dec 18, 2011
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    Thanks Trish! Merlin also calls Arthur "turniphead"

    What Arthur calls Merlin:
    -Simpleton.

    What Merlin calls Arthur:
    -Turniphead, simpleton, rude, thoughtless, insensitive, honest, brave, true-hearted.
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