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BBC (ended 2012)

Episode 4x13 'The Sword In The Stone Part 2' discussion thread

  • Avatar of boom-moo

    boom-moo

    [102]Dec 26, 2011
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    I find it believable as well (he wasn't at his best indeed and not only just because he was wounded, moral boost or not) I just think it was a bizarre timing to show him defeated when he had finally gotten to yield Excalibur at last. I know the sword has no especial powers against ordinary non magical enemies but it's kind of ironic all the same.
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    JJuna

    [103]Dec 26, 2011
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    boom-moo wrote:
    JJuna wrote:


    I didn't like the scene with Gwaine and Morgana and felt we had seen enough in the last episode. Showing her taking such delight in cruelty and torture makes it difficult to imagine how her even partial redemption will be handled in series 5.


    After proclaiming so once and again I didn't mind them showing a really evil Morgana. One thing is to plot murder and another to have someone face to face and have them go through hell. I am glad they spared the actual fight because what I enjoyed was Morgana showing her cruelty. And even more than that, I loved Elyan trying to stop the men who were taking Gwaine away and Gwaine's line: " Don't worry, at least we'll get to eat". Gotta be made of something quite especial to react that way. That's the Gwaine I love and the Gwaine I missed so at the beginning of the current series. Had to lol at Arthur's: "Not so powerful now, my lady." when Morgana is unable to use her magic on him. Is it me or Percival kind of ignores Gwaine when he frees him, Elyan and Gaius from the dungeon?


    I agree with you that it is welcome to have a brave and selfless Gwaine back. I think you're right about Percival and after all Gwaine had gone through, Elyan's joke about Gwaine seemed out of place. It indicates to me that relationships among the KORT are not fully resolved. To be charitable, you could say that Percy left Gwaine for Leon to look after but still...


    After Morgana's tactics in the Tears of Uther Pendragon, it was good to see her hoist with her own petard. I enjoyed her discomfiture and Arthur's line as well. Merlin's little smile of satisfaction emphasized just how powerful he really is in this episode. He seemed in total control of events and people.


    One more thing to mention: I love the music they use for Excalibur. It's really spine-tingling.


    @wilfeli. Just noticed your post. You make a good point about Arthur being wounded and weakened. However, he has been in desperate situations before and yet always seemed almost superhuman. I still think that it is strange and inconsistent that they chose this occasion for him to be beaten.


    As for Merlin's clothes, I really hope that he has had an upgrade in status. Perhaps they just didn't have time to clarify that in the episode.

    Edited on 12/26/2011 7:59am
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  • Avatar of boom-moo

    boom-moo

    [104]Dec 26, 2011
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    I don't know about Merlin's upgrade in status but now that Arthur and Guinevere are married I guess that we won't get more "rise and shine" scenes where Merlin wakes Arthur up. Those were always light and funny to watch, usually some comic relief (and good eye candy too!). Or will the king and queen have separate chambers? Will Gwen be up way earlier than Arthur and let Merlin get him out of bed? Sounds really inappropriate for Merlin to step in their chamber (if they are to share one) or even to show A/G together in bed being a family show and whatnot.

    Do the clothes indicate that Merlin is not to perform the such tasks (kind of fitting after A/G are a married couple) any longer?
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    wilfeli

    [105]Dec 26, 2011
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    boom-moo wrote:
    Sounds really inappropriate for Merlin to step in their chamber (if they are to share one) or even to show A/G together in bed being a family show and whatnot. Do the clothes indicate that Merlin is not to perform the such tasks (kind of fitting after A/G are a married couple) any longer?


    I've a feeling that they will go with separate chambers. After all it was customary and would still allow them to have that nice comedic relief scenes. And in interview they were surprised by the question about children - as if they haven't thought about it


    It's just I want to see happy resolution for everyone: Arthur and Gwen married, Morgana healed and probably having doubts and becoming more morally neutral and Merlin getting some recognition and upgrade in status (hope that they simply didn't have time to show it).

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  • Avatar of JJuna

    JJuna

    [106]Dec 26, 2011
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    wilfeli wrote:


    It's just I want to see happy resolution for everyone: Arthur and Gwen married, Morgana healed and probably having doubts and becoming more morally neutral and Merlin getting some recognition and upgrade in status (hope that they simply didn't have time to show it).



    I second all of the above. I add to my wish list the reveal and the return of Lancelot

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    ACDiNosey

    [107]Dec 26, 2011
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    Well, I thought I'd add my thoughts on the ep given they haven't been voiced by others yet

    I really enjoyed the episode, but I was really surprised by the different "feel" I got from Merlin in this episode... Having checked who wrote the different episodes in series 4, I'm starting to think that it's a JJ thing, and that he has a slightly different view of where Merlin is and where he's going (emotionally/psychologically). I found him a lot more "grey" and leading than in other episodes. In that I would disagree with someone above who said the episode was centered on Arthur. To me it wasn't. It was more about how much power Merlin has accrued, not so much magically, but as a friend to Arthur. I really like the fact that Arthur remains emotionally stunted and unable to voice his feelings without adding a joke afterwards to try and render any sort of "moment of weakness" far less obvious/truthful. I also like the fact that Merlin didn't make it easy for Arthur to get the sword. Arthur had to prove himself as a king, and after all the huffing and puffing, I thought he might even abandon the idea. He kept on out of pure pride (because he wouldn't want to be seen as weak by his knights) but the stance (the way he held the sword in particular) was different and imbued with confidence (or at least pretend confidence). I wish they hadn't resolved the A/G thing, but that's just me and it doesn't bother me. I liked the fact that Morgana is overcome by her fear of Emrys, and happy for Helios to see her weak side when she asks for guards to her door.

    I'll stop here for now. I'm sure more things will come back to me later, once I've rewatched the episode in peace and quiet
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    boom-moo

    [108]Dec 26, 2011
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    ACDiNosey wrote:
    I also like the fact that Merlin didn't make it easy for Arthur to get the sword. Arthur had to prove himself as a king, and after all the huffing and puffing, I thought he might even abandon the idea. He kept on out of pure pride (because he wouldn't want to be seen as weak by his knights) but the stance (the way he held the sword in particular) was different and imbued with confidence (or at least pretend confidence).
    I agree. The first time that Arthur holds the sword he uses both hands and tries to pull it out using just strength. After Merlin's reassuring words, he approaches it differently, holds is with a single hand which he twists over the hilt (making it more difficult to use just strength) and closes his eyes, as if really believing that there is more to it when physical effort, having the faith that Merlin is imbuing into him. It's visually very nice
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    fantasymommy

    [109]Dec 26, 2011
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    wilfeli wrote:


    boom-moo wrote:
    Sounds really inappropriate for Merlin to step in their chamber (if they are to share one) or even to show A/G together in bed being a family show and whatnot. Do the clothes indicate that Merlin is not to perform the such tasks (kind of fitting after A/G are a married couple) any longer?


    I've a feeling that they will go with separate chambers. After all it was customary and would still allow them to have that nice comedic relief scenes. And in interview they were surprised by the question about children - as if they haven't thought about it


    It's just I want to see happy resolution for everyone: Arthur and Gwen married, Morgana healed and probably having doubts and becoming more morally neutral and Merlin getting some recognition and upgrade in status (hope that they simply didn't have time to show it).




    I for one would be very happy with a pregnant Gwen in season 5. I would lend itself nicely to the 'new Albion' he would have so much vested interest in creating:-)

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    wilfeli

    [110]Dec 26, 2011
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    fantasymommy wrote:


    I for one would be very happy with a pregnant Gwen in season 5. I would lend itself nicely to the 'new Albion' he would have so much vested interest in creating:-)



    Please, no, not another season with A/G relationships and kids/pregnancy. I watch this show purely for visual pleasures and pregnant women are very low on my list of attractive things. More knights, swords and pretty horses please.

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    Wonder_

    [111]Dec 26, 2011
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    wilfeli wrote:


    fantasymommy wrote:


    I for one would be very happy with a pregnant Gwen in season 5. I would lend itself nicely to the 'new Albion' he would have so much vested interest in creating:-)



    Please, no, not another season with A/G relationships and kids/pregnancy. I watch this show purely for visual pleasures and pregnant women are very low on my list of attractive things. More knights, swords and pretty horses please.



    Knowing the legends I think it's pretty unlikely.

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    fantasymommy

    [112]Dec 26, 2011
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    Wonder_ wrote:


    wilfeli wrote:


    fantasymommy wrote:


    I for one would be very happy with a pregnant Gwen in season 5. I would lend itself nicely to the 'new Albion' he would have so much vested interest in creating:-)



    Please, no, not another season with A/G relationships and kids/pregnancy. I watch this show purely for visual pleasures and pregnant women are very low on my list of attractive things. More knights, swords and pretty horses please.



    Knowing the legends I think it's pretty unlikely.




    I agree it is highly unlikely. However having a son/daughter to pass on his kingdom to would change our young king dramatically:-)

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    VConn

    [113]Dec 26, 2011
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    Another good series finale for Merlin though I still think The Coming of arthur was a better finale, The only real complaint about this episode I have is that there was no Arthur\Agravaine confrontation I was so looking forward to that all series, but on the plus side I loved how Merlin got all bad-ass with his magic and slaughtered Agravaine and all those Southron soldiers. Bring on series 5 now please!

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    fantasymommy

    [114]Dec 26, 2011
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    VConn wrote:


    Another good series finale for Merlin though I still think The Coming of arthur was a better finale, The only real complaint about this episode I have is that there was no Arthur\Agravaine confrontation I was so looking forward to that all series, but on the plus side I loved how Merlin got all bad-ass with his magic and slaughtered Agravaine and all those Southron soldiers. Bring on series 5 now please!



    VConn I agree with you about the lack of Arthur/Aggie confrontation. It would have been epic to watch Agravaine try to talk is way out of that oneWink

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    legend-dreamer

    [115]Dec 26, 2011
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    I was finally able to watch the episode tonight (Christmas holiday visiting kept me from watching until today).


    Overall I found the episode enjoyable. Merlin and Agravaine's confrontation was brilliantly filmed. What stood out for me was Merlin leading Agravaine & Co. to the dead end and turning around knowing his only option is to kill them. Merlin tries to warn Agravaine to "Be Careful", and Agravaine can't fathom why he needs to be careful around a lowly servant. He even looks around knowing there is no where to have set up an ambush. Magic Surprise! (It almost seemed like Merlin was hoping Agravaine would back down, but Merlin knew deep within himself that it would not happen.) When Merlin turned to leave after killing Agravaine you could see a more mature, determined and serious look on his face. A definite turning point for Merlin.


    I do wish that before Merlin had his confrontation with Agravaine, that there had been one between Arthur/Agravaine. That being said I loved the Morgana/Arthur confrontation, it was totally unexpected. Athough more could have been said and done, at least there has finally been a face to face meeting. I also wish there had been more to the Morgana/Gwen confrontation. I am hoping the bracelet/enchantment is discovered during series 5.


    Interesting to use Isolde's death as the catalyst for Arthur to realize he doesn't want to lose Gwen.


    Long live King Arthur and Queen Guinevere.


    sidenote: my copy has the BBC announcer's voice during the Dragoon/straw doll scene. After my problems with last weeks episode I am just "meh" about it.

    Edited on 12/26/2011 8:08pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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    merlinfan1122

    [116]Dec 26, 2011
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    I missed a Gaius-Morgana confrontation here, though. Didn't Gaius take care of her since she was a child? Would've been the perfect opportunity to have a talk with him and revisit the way he tried to hide her magic from her in S2, which they missed in The Secret Sharer.

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    jaqtkd

    [117]Dec 27, 2011
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    wilfeli wrote:


    fantasymommy wrote:


    I for one would be very happy with a pregnant Gwen in season 5. I would lend itself nicely to the 'new Albion' he would have so much vested interest in creating:-)



    Please, no, not another season with A/G relationships and kids/pregnancy. I watch this show purely for visual pleasures and pregnant women are very low on my list of attractive things. More knights, swords and pretty horses please.



    I also really don't want to see that. There were many things tacked this year but it was obvious that TPTB had always planned this to be the Arwenalot series - they were saying as much during the conferences. Now the King and Queen are settled, there will be time for the show to fully focus on the birth of Albion and, for that, they need to focus on Arthur/Gwen as King and Queen, not parents.

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    dinamo

    [118]Dec 27, 2011
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    One thing I loved about this episode was what Agravaine said to Merlin. Merlin is just as manipulative in his way as Agravaine its only their motives that seperate them. Neither of them truly let Arthur make his own choices they drip feed him information, he'll never be the King he's meant to be until he's able to have all the facts of everyone around him and make his own informed choices. So much of whats gone on this series and series gone by is built on lies,



    Uther had a Kingdom built on hate and terror and fear and while Arthur is trying to do things differently whilst most of its built on lies he can't do anything different until he has more of the facts. He'll never be able to be what he's meant to become whilst he's being looked after like a baby by Merlin. Merlin has good intention but lying to him and going behind his back in the end when it comes out could do more harm than good.

    Edited on 12/27/2011 5:31am
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    pcdsa

    [119]Dec 27, 2011
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    I really enjoyed this episode.
    Loved:
    - Merlin/Agravaine confrontation, Merlin had no response when Agravaine said they were more alike in deceiving Arthur. -Sword in the stone scene; -Morgana terrified of Emrys
    -Arthur/Morgana confrontation; I think Arthur still cares for her and it looked like Morgana had some regrets about their lost friendship.

    Didn't like Tristan/Isolde plotline of bringing A/G together. I do want them to be together but I want the betrayal sorted out between them so that Arthur has no doubts. I hope it is resolved in S5, though unlikely...

    Thoroughly enjoyed S4 far more than S3. Looking forward to S5!
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    zeencat

    [120]Dec 27, 2011
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    I got to see the season finale yesterday. I stayed away from spoilers thanks to Danko tip. It was very much appreciated, although I was extremely tempted to peak. I enjoyed the season finale a lot but it was by far one of the cheesiest episodes they have done so far and a little cringe worthy. I normally associate cheesiness with American shows not the BBC. I preferred part one but in all it was a good episode. I loved the story that Merlin conjured up about the sword in the stone, not only did he restore Arthur's faith but told him of his destiny to unite the land. I can't believe thats it over with already. Aithusa at the end was a surprise. I'm not sure what it sets up for next season just that Morgana is alive and will be the main badie for next season AGAIN. I don't see how Aithusa can side with Morgana when Merlin is a dragonlord and can control him unless there is another twist we don't know about - something different about Aithusa maybe. Can't wait for next season anyway.

    Edited on 12/27/2011 2:18pm
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    boom-moo

    [121]Dec 27, 2011
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    Homework time, pcdsa I'm afraid I wasn't too inspired this week, sorry about that.

    Arthur's attributes to being the great king of legend:
    -Gwen says that despite being servant she fights alongside his king and when Tristan remarks that he hasn't detected many kingly qualities in Arthur, Gwen replies that that's because he doesn't know him.
    -Arthur is worried about Merlin's safety when he stays behind and risks his life creating a diversion. He decides to go back and check on Merlin. He considers Merlin his only friend and can't bear to lose him.
    -He follows Merlin's advice to seek refuge in the Forest of Ascetir.
    -He remains kind and friendly towards Tristan despite his confrontational attitude.
    -He wonders if he deserves to be King after trusting all the wrong people who betrayed him. He feels like a fool for misjudging people and making wrong decisions.
    -He thinks that there's nothing special about him and that he should be a wise and discerning statesman.
    -He blames himself for the loss of those who fell dead when the citadel was taken.
    -He respects Merlin's wish and listens to his story.
    -When shown that he is loved by his people and his knights and that they will lay down their lives him he is ready to lead them into battle.
    -His humble behaviour and his will to fight for what's right and fair makes Tristan and Isolde change their mind and want to fight at his side. Arthur is honoured and replies that they stand together as equals.
    -He leads his people into battle.
    -When confronting Morgana he tries to talk things out with her putting his sword aside.
    -He is able to see his father's mistakes.
    -Isolde's death makes him realize that he doesn't ever want to lose Gwen and he asks her to marry him.
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