Merlin Forums

BBC (ended 2012)

Episode 5x05 'The Disir' discussion thread

  • Avatar of illegalferret

    illegalferret

    [41]Nov 5, 2012
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    boom-moo wrote:
    illegalferret wrote:


    if the old religion and Morganna leave him alone for long enough i think he could be won round.


    I think he can be won around indeed but the Disir did a cracking job at it, didn't they?


    They were as good as Morganna The show really needs another good magical person, aside from Merlin. They say it's important to bring back magic but apart from Merlin and Gaius everyone who's used magic in the show as been evil!


    On another note (as it's just occurred to me!) it was nice to have another Morganna free episode, having her show up with a new evil plan every week would have been ridiculous! Yes there was still magic but it was more about magic rather than using magic.


    Also (another thing i've just thought of) shouldn't The Disir have recognised Merlin? They knew Arthur and Mordred (?) but seemed shocked at Merlin's magic. Maybe he's only known by the druids?

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    boom-moo

    [42]Nov 5, 2012
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    illegalferret wrote:

    Also (another thing i've just thought of) shouldn't The Disir have recognised Merlin? They knew Arthur and Mordred (?) but seemed shocked at Merlin's magic. Maybe he's only known by the druids?

    I don't think they did, they tried to kill him after all. They should have an interest in keeping him alive and well, right? If they are just the Triple Goddess' voice then their knowledge might be quite limited.
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  • Avatar of illegalferret

    illegalferret

    [43]Nov 5, 2012
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    Are Druids linked to the old religion? I get a little confused sometimes with all these branches of magic Maybe The Disir thought Merlin would back them up and were annoyed he didn't stop Arthur from being disrespectful.

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    boom-moo

    [44]Nov 5, 2012
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    I think that all magical creatures/beings/things are linked to the OR but not all have the same magical abilities/properties, but it's never been made clear so that's my take.

    Maybe but the Disir had the chance to talk to Merlin alone and question him and all they did was trying to kill him.

    ___________

    What Arthur says about magic:
    -He thinks that Osgar’s message about the Disir’s judgement is “nonsense”.
    -He thinks that Osgar was “deranged” and that the runemark is nothing but “a trinket”.
    -When Gaius warns him that the rune is the judgement of the gods against him he still thinks that it’s all “nonsense”.
    -He doesn’t believe Merlin when he warns Arthur about the cave being a magical place and thinks that Merlin is being ridiculous about entering it unarmed.
    -“I fight against sorcery and superstition.”
    -He has seen the misery that unfettered sorcery brings. He reminds Merlin that before Uther outlawed magic, Camelot was almost destroyed by sorcery. He adds that in his own time Morgana has used magic for nothing but evil.
    -He tells the Disir that he has seen too much to allow sorcery again within Camelot.

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  • Avatar of XyFan

    XyFan

    [45]Nov 5, 2012
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    boom-moo wrote:
    XyFan wrote:

    boom-moo wrote:
    -Arthur (indirectly) saves Mordred's life by rejecting the Old Religion.
    Did the Arthur's decision really had any effect on Mordred's bettering? I thought Mordred got healed somehow by himself, maybe being because he was a Druid?

    Yes, Mordred getting better is a result of Arthur's decision not to allow magic back, that's actually the surprising twist at the end of the episode.

    It would seem that Arthur's decision would have meant Mordred's death (which would have been true should the dying knight be any other than Mordred) but by rejecting magic Arthur actually made the future possible, all that the Disir warned him about: the loss of all that he holds dear, great suffering, Camelot falling and the end of his reign (at the hands of Mordred, which Arthur isn't aware of but Merlin knows well --> that's why Merlin felt quite the idiot at the end: according to the Disir's judgement Mordred's life is Arthur's punishment for rejecting magic.).

    Have I explained it right? It can get a bit confusing.


    Thanks for explaining. At first it looked like whatever the decision, Mordred would have been cured. Because they promised to cure Mordred if Arthur had accepted Old religion, and when rejecting, Mordred still healed, although Disir said they would not help. It wasn't even showed how he got cured though. I guess Disir were just nifty... :/


    illegalferret wrote:


    They were as good as Morganna The show really needs another good magical person, aside from Merlin. They say it's important to bring back magic but apart from Merlin and Gaius everyone who's used magic in the show as been evil!



    This. I think that is the one of the problems this series has. Even we haven't been shown enough what can good magic do.. I mean yes you can send a light to guide a way or heal, cure, break things so they wont do harm etc. Is that all? But what about all the other skills they have? Lightning storms (end of first season), fireballs, etc. They do no good, they harm, so are they useless? What kind of magic does Merlin want to have in the kingdom anyway.. Also if magic did return, wouldn't it make all swordsman useless?


    illegalferret wrote:


    Also (another thing i've just thought of) shouldn't The Disir have recognised Merlin? They knew Arthur and Mordred (?) but seemed shocked at Merlin's magic. Maybe he's only known by the druids?



    I personally want to believe that they did know about Merlin. Maybe they knew that Merlin was hiding his magic from Arthur. Because they did seem to know about future, why not know about the present? Maybe they threw that spear on purpose, to threaten, or for some other reason .. But that's just my view of it.

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    boom-moo

    [46]Nov 5, 2012
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    XyFan wrote:

    Even we haven't been shown enough what can good magic do.. I mean yes you can send a light to guide a way or heal, cure, break things so they wont do harm etc. Is that all? But what about all the other skills they have? Lightning storms (end of first season), fireballs, etc. They do no good, they harm, so are they useless? What kind of magic does Merlin want to have in the kingdom anyway.. Also if magic did return, wouldn't it make all swordsman useless?

    Bringing magic back is trickier than it seems. Some of those who can use it will surely abuse it which was what made Uther ban it. As I see it bringing magic back would require establishing some rules and boundaries as well. And until Arthur is fully aware of the full scope of magic, he won't be able to draw the line.
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    PenguinSuzie

    [47]Nov 5, 2012
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    boom-moo wrote:
    "Embrace the Old Religion. Learn her ways. Bow to the Goddess." It's a bit ambiguos but in either case, the Disir didn't seem to be giving friendly advice, they sounded like a threat and tried to murder the King and his men and I don't think that's the best way to make a reluctant Arthur go against all what he has been taught (magic being evil) and pretty much all what he has seen (magic being used for evil).
    They were definitely over demanding and went about it all in a counterproductive way. I just meant that they weren't seemingly demanding the king and all of Camelot to forsake any previous religions they were part of as well. I don't know, maybe that is what they expected.

    Edited on 11/05/2012 12:23pm
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    ACDiNosey

    [48]Nov 5, 2012
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    "bow to the Goddess" seems to suggest to me that they were asking Arthur to adopt the OR or at least to acknowledge it as a higher power than himself... Let's face it, Merlin or not, this wasn't going to happen. If Arthur brings back magic to Camelot, it will be on his terms (as BM put it: "with rules and boundaries") rather than the OR taking over from him.
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  • Avatar of boom-moo

    boom-moo

    [49]Nov 7, 2012
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    What Arthur calls Merlin:
    -He jokes that Merlin’s face resembles the back end of a cat. -Bad servant.
    -(Implied) Wise.

    Arthur is knocked unconscious or prevented from knowing about Merlin's magic:
    -He is running away from the Grove of Brineved and bringing Mordred to safety when Merlin diverts the trajectory of the Disir’s staff.
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    dpebbleson

    [50]Nov 9, 2012
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    No Morgana here, hence no smirks and no dreams... I'm wondering if we should add category 'Morgana's Histerical Moments" including her demented grins

    Not a bad episode, with a nice twist at the end, too bad I had no time to comment and by now, I forgot what my initial impressions are.

    I think the episodes as themselves are good, but that somehow the overarching story line is sort of stale, no big movements toward anything, but more of a repeat of failed plots. Something has to happen quickly to complement the overall quality of acting, production etc.
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