Merlin Forums

BBC (ended 2012)

Episode 5x07 'A Lesson In Vengeance' discussion thread

  • Avatar of boom-moo

    boom-moo

    [21]Nov 18, 2012
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    Thanks

    Morgana's premonitory dreams:
    -None.

    Morgana's smirks of doom:
    -None (but enchanted Gwen smirked twice: once when talking to Gaius on the steps inside the castle and then when speaking with Sir Leon about ruling Camelot after Arthur).

    Anyone noticed the goof regarding Merlin's clothes when he is thrown in jail?

    Fashion:

    Merlin:
    -Blue shirt, red scarf and brown jacket (day 1).
    -Blue shirt and red scarf.
    -Blue shirt, red scarf and brown jacket (day 2).
    -Red shirt and brown jacket.
    -Blue shirt, red scarf and brown jacket.
    -Old Merlin’s red robe.
    -Blue shirt, red scarf and brown jacket.
    -Blue shirt, red scarf and brown jacket.
    -Old Merlin’s red robe.
    -Blue shirt, red scarf and (covered with) brown jacket (day 3).
    -Blue shirt, red scarf and brown jacket.

    Arthur:
    -White shirt (day 1).
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail with Camelot cloak.
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail.
    -White shirt.
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail (day 2).
    -White shirt.
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail (day 3).
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail with Camelot cloak.

    Morgana:
    -Black dress and black cloak (day 2).
    -Black dress, shawl and cloak (as Old Morgana).

    Gwen:
    -Dark pink dress with maroon bodice (day 1).
    -Dark pink dress with maroon bodice and blue cloak (day 2).
    -Purple dress.
    -Dark pink dress with maroon bodice.
    -Purple dress.
    -Off the shoulders red velvet dress (day 3).

    Gaius:
    -Green robe (day 1).
    -Maroon robe (day 2).
    -Green robe (day 3).
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  • Avatar of xfairylightx

    xfairylightx

    [22]Nov 18, 2012
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    boom-moo wrote:
    . Anyone noticed the goof regarding Merlin's clothes when he is thrown in jail?.


    He's not wearing his neckerchief.

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  • Avatar of boom-moo

    boom-moo

    [23]Nov 18, 2012
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    More than that. When Gwen accusses him of being behind Arthur's poisoning he is wearing the blue shirt, red scarf and brown jacket combo. Next scene, two seconds afterwards, he is wearing a red shirt and the brown jacket as he is thrown in jail. Then, for the rest of his scenes in jail, he is back to the blue shirt, red scarf and brown jacket combo. Tsk, tsk...

    What Arthur calls Merlin:
    -Not bright enough.

    What Merlin calls Arthur:
    -(Ironically) Thoughtful.
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  • Avatar of allenleonardo

    allenleonardo

    [24]Nov 19, 2012
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    boom-moo wrote:
    More than that. When Gwen accusses him of being behind Arthur's poisoning he is wearing the blue shirt, red scarf and brown jacket combo. Next scene, two seconds afterwards, he is wearing a red shirt and the brown jacket as he is thrown in jail. Then, for the rest of his scenes in jail, he is back to the blue shirt, red scarf and brown jacket combo. Tsk, tsk...



    Yeah read that also in another forum. They said this was from a past scene


    I found it quite surprising that a lot people on facebook are thinking that Gwen is doing it out of her free will and that she really changed side. (And on other sides its the same)


    The producers really should have made it more clear that its not that way.

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  • Avatar of dpebbleson

    dpebbleson

    [25]Nov 19, 2012
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    allenleonardo wrote:

    The producers really should have made it more clear that its not that way.



    No offence to those that didn't notice, but I think it was made pretty clear. Many of those probably complained about the Smirks of Doom in S3. There's no pleasing the audience, it seems.

    I forgot to mention I liked Gaius in this episode. He is probably the most self-controlled character in the entire show, and that's actually quite a virtue!
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    BrightlyLit

    [26]Nov 19, 2012
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    dpebbleson wrote:
    allenleonardo wrote:


    The producers really should have made it more clear that its not that way.


    No offence to those that didn't notice, but I think it was made pretty clear. Many of those probably complained about the Smirks of Doom in S3. There's no pleasing the audience, it seems. I forgot to mention I liked Gaius in this episode. He is probably the most self-controlled character in the entire show, and that's actually quite a virtue!


    Honestly, I agree. They have made it clear. If they'd been watching at the end of episode six it was made clear and what on earth do they think Merlin is saying to Gaius about his concern for her since the dark tower. Then Gaius said it plainly late in this episode. I do wonder sometimes at the number of things that go over people's heads. I think some folks just look at what is going on on the surface from episode to episode. Even using reasoning powers would help. Why would a decent person suddenly become completely cruel and evil without something sinister having occurred from another source? Especially on this show. Especially when they're connected with Morgana. Boggles my mind.


    Agree about Gaius. He has made me quite angry on a number of occasions however, such as in 4x09.

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  • Avatar of boom-moo

    boom-moo

    [27]Nov 19, 2012
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    Yes, reused footage usually translates in goofs.

    I think it's pretty clear as well but to each one their own.

    Arthur is knocked unconscious or prevented from knowing about Merlin's magic:
    -He is fighting when Merlin unarms the bandit.
    -He is at the brink of death when Merlin saves his life with a spell.
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  • Avatar of allenleonardo

    allenleonardo

    [28]Nov 19, 2012
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    dpebbleson wrote:
    No offence to those that didn't notice, but I think it was made pretty clear. Many of those probably complained about the Smirks of Doom in S3. There's no pleasing the audience, it seems.


    I forgot to mention I liked Gaius in this episode. He is probably the most self-controlled character in the entire show, and that's actually quite a virtue!



    I also cant understand how someone can believe that she does it on her own. it just sad to see them all hating on Gwen.


    Gaius may be the most self-controlled character but since the beginning of this season he seems to not believe Merlin anymore. This annoys me a little bit. But I still love him (and his eyebrow of doom xD)


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  • Avatar of boom-moo

    boom-moo

    [29]Nov 19, 2012
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    What Arthur says about magic:
    -He believes Gwaine’s word that he fell off his horse because of sorcery but he thinks that pinning it to Morgana without further proof is just idle speculation.
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  • Avatar of Scop

    Scop

    [30]Nov 20, 2012
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    I liked the episode, it just seemed like the script was rushed, a necessary evil that had to be gotten through but for some reason wasn't completely fleshed out... like they got to a certain point and for deadline reasons they had to say "It's good enough, finalize it now."


    The dress joke for one. Merlin's smarter than that. It's like they were purposely avoiding the obvious "moth" excuse just because they used it before. Multiple moth outbreaks are plausible. We wouldn't have complained too much


    Loved seeing Dragoon again, just wished we would have seen more of him. His banter with the guards seemed a little rushed as well, but okay, Merlin was in a hurry. And they couldn't have his running around the castle as Dragoon because, even if Arthur's not so worried about him after the talk he had about the old man with Gaius, that's still not the common sentiment with the knights. He'd probably have an easier time talking his way out of trouble if the knights caught him sneaking around as Merlin. I doubt any of them believed Merlin would ever try to kill Arthur (considering their reaction when he was trying to kill Arthur), and let him get thrown in jail for his own good until things got themselves sorted out. He's been in them mistakenly enough times in the past.




    If Gwen remembers herself killing Tyr, she's going to be in a world of hurt when she snaps out of it. She probably knew him as long as Arthur had and probably had a closer relationship to him.


    I'd doubt they'd tell Arthur if they can get though curing Gwen before he finds out. That's something that could make him hate magic even more, and there's already been enough damage in that arena this episode.


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  • Avatar of boom-moo

    boom-moo

    [31]Nov 20, 2012
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    Tricky because she is faking them but hey.

    Arthur and Gwen moments:
    [Enchanted Gwen]
    -They go on a picnic to celebrate their wedding anniversary.
    -She rubs Arthur’s back and shoulder affectionately while Gaius tends to Arthur’s wounds.
    -He listens to her advice and believes that she is right. She leans on his knee and tries to make Arthur feel better about his decision to sentence Tyr to death and reassures him that it was the right thing to do.
    -She says she couldn’t afford to lose Arthur. He strokes her face and promises her that he will never leave her. She kisses his hand.
    -Arthur strokes her tummy, she strokes his arm.
    -Arthur is worried because he can’t find Gwen.
    -They are holding hands, Gwen tells him that she would lay down her life to protect him.
    -Join their hands in a tight grip.
    -She strokes his shoulder and kisses his forehead.
    -He serves her some wine when she is thirsty.
    -Arthur says that her kindness never ceases to amaze him.
    -Arthur is sorry that they never had their wedding anniversary celebration. They clink cups and Arthur cheers to them.
    -Gwen is highly distressed about Arthur and asks Gaius about him, if there is any hope.
    -Gwen doesn’t leave Arthur’s side and cries her heart out, telling Sir Leon how she can’t imagine going on without Arthur, how he promised her that he wouldn’t leave her.
    -She refuses to leave Arthur’s side.
    -Arthur proclaims that Gwen’s tireless efforts and diligence have uncovered the truth. Long live the Queen!
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  • Avatar of XyFan

    XyFan

    [33]Nov 20, 2012
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    allenleonardo wrote:

    boom-moo wrote:
    More than that. When Gwen accusses him of being behind Arthur's poisoning he is wearing the blue shirt, red scarf and brown jacket combo. Next scene, two seconds afterwards, he is wearing a red shirt and the brown jacket as he is thrown in jail. Then, for the rest of his scenes in jail, he is back to the blue shirt, red scarf and brown jacket combo. Tsk, tsk...



    Yeah read that also in another forum. They said this was from a past scene



    The episode where Merlin is thrown to jail is season 2 episode 1. So weird!
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  • Avatar of boom-moo

    boom-moo

    [34]Nov 20, 2012
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    They reuse footage often, and often not respecting continuity much lol

    Potions made by Gaius:
    -Ageing one for Merlin to turn into Emrys.

    Gaius's smacks:
    -None.
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    ACDiNosey

    [35]Nov 20, 2012
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    I enjoyed the episode, although it had a strong feeling of deja-vu in a few places... Dragoon is priceless... I'm starting to wonder if the persona (the rudeness etc.) comes with the transformation rather than being sth Merlin adds to create a character... Sorry if I'm being thick, but I don't understand why Morgana was so insistent no one should suspect Gwen... With her big knife and all, she could easily have stabbed Arthur to death in his bed, then lied next to him (I know, yuck!) and pretend she hadn't heard or seen anything and be all black widowy in the morning... Also Morgana trying to make people suffer before they die and them not dying in the end is getting a bit old... If she killed people when she could, the show would have been finished three seasons ago!

    Also, can anyone tell me how Merlin actually gets back to his cell? The climbing down the wall is the easy part, but how would he actually get back to his cell? Wouldn't the guards be replaced by then or wouldn't someone notice he's missing? Would he just walk in close the door behind him and go for a snooze?
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    boom-moo

    [36]Nov 20, 2012
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    We are talking Camelot guards here, bear that in mind!

    Counted the "Sire"s?

    Chestporns/Bodyporns:
    -Arthur’s white see-through shirt.
    -Merlin’s armsporn.
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    ACDiNosey

    [37]Nov 20, 2012
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    Nope, I'll need to watch again... There were no My Lords though

    I know Camelot guards are thick, but they are reaching new limits (unless he transformed into Dragoon again to inspect his cell...)
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    boom-moo

    [38]Nov 20, 2012
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    We shall rewatch then

    Merlin and Great Dragon meetings:
    -None.

    Great Dragon's riddles:
    -None.

    Aithusa meetings:
    -None.
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    zeencat

    [39]Nov 20, 2012
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    I really enjoyed this episode but defiantly not my favourite.
    I thought that Angel really shined during this episode, its great to see another side to her. I think she could give Morgana a run for her money in the evil dept.

    It was heart breaking to watch Merlin when he thought Arthur was dead.
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    boom-moo

    [40]Nov 23, 2012
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    'I have faith Arthur makes a great king' statements:
    -Gwen calls Arthur a great and honourable King.
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