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BBC (ended 2012)

Episode 5x08 'The Hollow Queen' discussion thread

  • Avatar of boom-moo

    boom-moo

    [1]Nov 23, 2012
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    Please post your opinions/comments/discussion topics on episode 5x08 "The Hollow Queen" here.

    -Spoilers are not allowed.
    -Bashing ships/characters is not allowed.
    -Discussion is welcome, arguing is not.
    -Trolls won't be fed, ignore and report it is.
    -Be respecful, keep it cool.



    Thank you

    (As per usual, I'll open a discussion thread for every new episode every Friday and keep it locked until Saturday. Past experience shows that comments posted before the episode airs tend to spoil the episode for spoiler free people and also, episode discussion threads that are opened days before their airing date tend to end up buried and reopened by different users which leads to confusion and clutter. Any comments regarding this episode should be done in the Spoilers thread until the episode has aired. Thank you.)

    ____________________

    5x08 Masterlists:

    Episode 5x08 magic and spells:
    -Merlin uses telepaty to warn Daegal about the bandits.
    -Morgana blasts Merlin away and knocks him out against the ground using magic.
    -Merlin’s eyes glow yellow twice.
    -Merlin blasts Gerin up in the air and throws him against the ground using magic.
    -Daegal heals Merlin’s leg wound using magic.
    -Merlin diverts the trajectory of Albin’s arrow using his mind.
    -Merlin throws a staff to knock Albin out using his mind.

    Episode 5x08 RIP list:
    -The Sarrum killed by Albin.
    -Albin killed? by Merlin.
    -Daegal killed by Albin.

    Episode 5x08 Lives Saved list:
    -Daegal saves Merlin’s life.
    -Merlin saves Arthur’s life.

    What Arthur calls Merlin:
    -Idle-brained servant.

    What Merlin calls Arthur:
    -Nothing.
    -(Gwen) Hopeless.

    Times Sir Leon says “Sire”:
    -None.

    Liar, liar:
    -

    Arthur's attributes to being the great king of legend:
    -Arthur doesn’t approve of The Sarrum’s ways but he is willing to seek an alliance to achieve peace. -Arthur doesn’t think he’ll ever be close with the Sarrum due to his fearsome reputation.
    -Arthur agrees with Gwen that Merlin deserves a day off here and there.
    -He is not pleased to hear about Morgana’s ordeal at the hands of The Sarrum and even though he’s come to hate her, he considers him a harsh judge.
    -He has always considered Gwen way more than a servant.
    -He is worried that something might have happened to Merlin.
    -Arthur reckons The Sarrum’s fighter worth when he loses against him in a swordfight. He adds that he’d be honoured to be taught by The Sarrum.
    -Arthur wants Daegal to have a decent burial.

    Arthur is knocked unconscious or prevented from knowing about Merlin's magic:
    -He is looking down to the peace treaty when Merlin diverts the trajectory of Albin’s arrow.

    What Arthur says about magic:
    -He says that he shares with The Sarrum a hatred for Morgana.
    -He says that The Sarrum and himself have a common enemy: sorcery.
    -He says that The Sarrum is a harsh judge when it comes to magic.
    -He says that Morgana is a sorceress, a High Priestess.

    Potions made by Gaius:
    None, but Daegal prepares a tincture of rue, milfoil and yarrow to counteract Morgana’s poison.

    Gaius's smacks:
    -None.

    'I have faith Arthur makes a great king' statements:
    -Gaius says that Arthur has become a true statesman.
    -Merlin says that Arthur is a good man in his heart and that he will bring about a world some dream of.

    Merlin and Great Dragon meetings:
    -None.

    Great Dragon's riddles:
    -None.

    Aithusa meetings:
    -None.

    Morgana's premonitory dreams:
    -None.

    Morgana's smirks of doom:
    -None.

    Arthur and Gwen moments:
    [Enchanted Gwen]
    -Arthur decorates their bed with garlands of guillyflowers, Gwen’s favourite, around the bed. She hugs him, tells him it’s a sweet gesture. Arthur dismisses Merlin, picks Gwen up in his arms and takes her to bed.
    -Gwen finds Arthur’s comb for him and teases him about it saying he is hopeless. Arthur says that she has beautiful eyes, that he is hopelessly in love with her and tries to kiss her.
    -Gwen helps Arthur dress. Arthur says that she has ever been much more than a servant.
    -Gwen helps Arthur dress and reassures him about Merlin’s wellbeing, asking him not be hard on him whenever Merlin shows up.
    -Gwen refers to Arthur as “her husband”.
    -Gwen tells Arthur and Gaius that Merlin is ok (lying about his whereabouts).
    -Gwen refers to him as her husband.
    -Arthur checks on Gwen right after The Sarrum is killed.
    -They dine together as they have a “friendly” chat with Merlin.

    Chestporns/Bodyporns:
    -Merlin’s armsporn.
    -Arthur’s see through white shirt.
    -Arthur’s chestporn.
    -Arthur’s backporn.
    -Merlin’s crotchporn.
    -Daegal’s handporn.
    -Merlin’s handporn.
    -Merlin’s crotchporn.
    -Merlin’s legporn.

    Dungeon time:
    (Flashback) Morgana and Aithusa.

    Fashion:

    Merlin:
    -Blue shirt, red scarf and brown jacket (day 1).
    -Blue shirt and red scarf.
    -Red shirt, blue scarf and brown jacket (day 2).
    -Red shirt, blue scarf and brown jacket (day 3).
    -Red shirt, blue scarf and brown jacket (day 4).
    -Blue shirt, red scarf and brown jacket (day 5).

    Arthur:
    -White shirt (day 1).
    -White shirt (day 2).
    -Gwen’s nightdress
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail with Camelot cloak.
    -Red shirt (day 3).
    -Red shirt and red padded shirt.
    -Red shirt, red padded shirt and chainmail.
    -Red shirt, red padded shirt and chainmail with voiders (arm armour piece) and hauberk (chest armour piece)
    -Red shirt (day 4).
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail with Camelot cloak.
    -Red shirt.

    Morgana:
    -Black dress and black cloak (day 2).

    Gwen:
    -Dark pink dress with maroon bodice and blue cloak (day 1).
    -Blue dress (day 2).
    -Blue dress and purple cloak.
    -Off the shoulders red velvet dress.
    -Dark pink dress with maroon bodice and purple cloak.
    -Blue dress (day 3).
    -Purple dress (day 4).
    -Off the shoulders red velvet dress.

    Gaius:
    -White nightgown (day 2).
    -Green robe.
    -Green robe (day 3).
    -Maroon robe.
    -Green robe (day 4).
    -Maroon robe (day 5).

    Edited on 11/29/2012 7:45am
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  • Avatar of PenguinSuzie

    PenguinSuzie

    [2]Nov 24, 2012
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    Loved it!


    The scenes with Arthur were funny. I hope that Gaius now has a higher appreciation for what Merlin has to put up with. I liked Gaius a lot this episode.


    It was quite chilling when the Sovroun (sp?) was talking about Morgana and especially Aithusa. I'm really enjoying the Gwen & Morgana friendship I've really missed it, I do hope that it's genuine on Morgana's side and not just her play pretending.


    Merlin is so sweet, and helpful to people. I liked the 'druid' boy, I can't remember his name at the moment. I wonder how old he was suppose to be as they talked about him as just a boy but he looked at least in his late teens or older. I suppose it's because the characters themselves are in their late 20's early 30's.


    Morgana is still making the mistake of never actually making sure someone's dead or being quick about it. I'm glad of course but it's foolish of her. I'm sure she'll be glad to hear that the Souvron (sp?) is dead. She will probably have wanted it to be by her hand or for him to have suffered more though.


    I wonder if Gwen knows that Merlin suspects her for sure now. Or if she just suspects it. She must have before by her attitude with getting rid of Merlin, the way she talked about it as if he was getting to close to the truth. I just wonder if what with the end of this episode if she's sure.

    Edited on 11/24/2012 3:03pm
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  • Avatar of zeencat

    zeencat

    [3]Nov 24, 2012
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    I rather enjoyed tonight's episode, I thought it was better than last weeks and it was more Merlin centric. It did feel more like a filler although we did learn a bit more about 2 year imprisonment. Merlin certainly was in a sorry state for most of this episode and it was nice to see Morgana actually put a plan into action and actually follow it out. It was of course inevitable that Merlin saved Arthur at the last minute. In all I enjoyed this episode but it certainly wasn't my favourite for this season so far.



    @PengiunSuz - I think Gwen suspected Merlin was on to her in the last episode it was why she accused him of poisoning Arthur and why Morgana and Gwen planned to put Merlin out of the way permanently because he always medals in her plans.

    Edited on 11/24/2012 3:08pm
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    PenguinSuzie

    [4]Nov 24, 2012
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    zeencat wrote:
    @PengiunSuz - I think Gwen suspected Merlin was on to her in the last episode it was why she accused him of poisoning Arthur and why Morgana and Gwen planned to put Merlin out of the way permanently because he always medals in her plans.
    Yeah I agree.
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    boom-moo

    [5]Nov 24, 2012
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    Yes, I also think that Gwen definitely knows that Merlin isn't buying her game.
    PenguinSuzie wrote:

    I'm really enjoying the Gwen & Morgana friendship I've really missed it, I do hope that it's genuine on Morgana's side and not just her play pretending.

    i don't think it's genuine on Morgana's side, she had to put Gwen through hell to get her to bend to her will, that's all but genuine friendship to me.
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    PenguinSuzie

    [6]Nov 24, 2012
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    I know but I hope that the relationship between them now with Morgana happy to see her and seeiming to enjoy her company back I hope that's not an act. Like despite all that she's done to Gwen and how far she's fallen I'd like it if a part of her really is glad to have Gwen here supporting her.
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  • Avatar of zeencat

    zeencat

    [7]Nov 24, 2012
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    I don't think its genuine either. I think that Morgana would do anything to ensure Camelot and Arthur are destroyed. She's becoming desperate. I wouldn't put anything past her.
    With each passing episode she is just becoming more desperate.
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    boom-moo

    [8]Nov 24, 2012
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    I see how Morgana must find comfort in having the chance to enjoy (even if briefly during) the company of another human being but it's nothing like true friendship or affection to me.

    No spells this time.
    Episode 5x08 magic and spells:
    -Merlin uses telepaty to warn Daegal about the bandits.
    -Morgana blasts Merlin away and knocks him out against the ground using magic.
    -Merlin’s eyes glow yellow twice.
    -Merlin blasts Gerin up in the air and throws him against the ground using magic.
    -Daegal heals Merlin’s leg wound using magic.
    -Merlin diverts the trajectory of Albin’s arrow using his mind.
    -Merlin throws a staff to knock Albin out using his mind.
    Edited on 11/25/2012 9:02am
    Edited 3 total times.
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  • Avatar of XyFan

    XyFan

    [9]Nov 24, 2012
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    Im disappointed. Al those logic absences and Gwen-not-to-be-revealed made me mad.


    Whould it have hurt Arthur any way to tell him that Gwen is setting something up? And as i predicted, last episode's evidence was forgotten. Also, if Merlin knew Arhur was in danger because of Gwen he could have at least tell Gaius to keep eye on Gwen or somesort. At least a little bit of CARING? Didn't you-know-who try to kill your dear king last episode at all???



    Also the moment Merlin used head-talk (omg so awesome he can do that but thats not the point!) and the boy didnt hear it, it could have been clear that he isnt a Druid, why did Merlin keep following him when he could have stopped him after getting away from bandits?


    And are the guards in Camelot blind?? Can't they see up above that there might be.. humans walking there or whatever? Good grief..


    Also that boy didnt do anything. He just got Merlin into trouble, picked some herbs, lied and whined about his sad life, didn't even kill the bad guy (it was merlin who used magic to kill that man anyway). That character was badly introduced. In my opinion that is.


    Oh, also, why didnt merlin use magic skill to heal his leg after revealing it to that boy? He can bring half-dead people back to life but can't heal his leg? or the makers did it so it would be more dramatic?


    Maybe im just in a bad mood, i dont know...What i did like though was the scene with Arhurt being helpless with clothing himself. I literally burst out laughing. And it was nice to see some Merlin x Morgana though it was too short.

    Edited on 11/24/2012 4:16pm
    Edited 7 total times.
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    PenguinSuzie

    [10]Nov 24, 2012
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    XyFan wrote:
    Whould it have hurt Arthur any way to tell him that Gwen is setting something up? And as i predicted, last episode's evidence was forgotten. Also, if Merlin knew Arhur was in Danger because of Gwen he could have at least tell Gaius to keep eye on Gwen or somesort. At least some bit of CARING. Didn't you-know-who try to kill your dear king last episode at all???
    I think Gaius was trying to keep an eye on Gwen, he seemed to really suspect her anyway and didn't believe the things she said. Last season when Merlin tried to tell Arhur that Agravaine was a traitor Arthur threatened Merlin, even after all that's happened Merlin isn't absolutely positive that Arthur will believe him so he's not willing to risk Gwen realizing for sure that he knows or to somehow lose Arthur's trust when it comes to Gwen. Though Arthur really should just believe him. As much as Merlin loves him, he doesn't really trust Arthur at all.
    XyFan wrote:
    Also the moment Merlin used head-talk (omg so awesome he can do that but thats not the point!) and the boy didnt hear it, it could have been clear that he isnt a Druid, why did Merlin keep following him when he could have stopped him after getting away from bandits?
    I think Merlin was confused by that and maybe a little suspicious but it wasn't enough for him to believe the boy wasn't who he said he was.
    XyFan wrote:
    And are the guards in Camelot blind?? Can't they see up above that there might be.. humans walking there or whatever? God grief..
    Merlin did mention that the door was supposed to be locked so they wouldn't have a reason to think that someone would be using that area. The guards are usually hopeless though anyway.

    Edited on 11/24/2012 4:17pm
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  • Avatar of XyFan

    XyFan

    [11]Nov 24, 2012
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    PenguinSuzie wrote:


    XyFan wrote:
    Whould it have hurt Arthur any way to tell him that Gwen is setting something up? And as i predicted, last episode's evidence was forgotten. Also, if Merlin knew Arhur was in Danger because of Gwen he could have at least tell Gaius to keep eye on Gwen or somesort. At least some bit of CARING. Didn't you-know-who try to kill your dear king last episode at all???
    I think Gaius was trying to keep an eye on Gwen, he seemed to really suspect her anyway and didn't believe the things she said. Last season when Merlin tried to tell Arhur that Agravaine was a traitor Arthur threatened Merlin, even after all that's happened Merlin isn't absolutely positive that Arthur will believe him so he's not willing to risk Gwen realizing for sure that he knows or to somehow lose Arthur's trust when it comes to Gwen. Though Arthur really should just believe him. As much as Merlin loves him, he doesn't really trust Arthur at all.


    This is actually the reason Arthur should listen to Merlin this time. Because last time Arthur was wrong :/ Sadly yes we know he would not believe Merlin again. Merlin doesnt have to tell to Arthur that she is a traitor. He could at least say to Arthur that something is wrong with Gwen, or to keep close eye on her, etc.. . Although it would be actually quite fun to see Merlin & Arthur both work together to make Gwen normal again. Sadly i bet that would not happen. Guess Arthur has to stay clueless and Merlin (and some Gaius) got to solve everything on his own again..


    And yes its onvious that Gaius suspects her too, but the way Merlin left Camelot looked a bit uncaring.

    Edited on 11/24/2012 4:35pm
    Edited 3 total times.
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    boom-moo

    [12]Nov 24, 2012
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    'I have faith Arthur makes a great king' statements:
    -Gaius says that Arthur has become a true statesman.
    -Merlin says that Arthur is a good man in his heart and that he will bring about a world some dream of.
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    PenguinSuzie

    [13]Nov 24, 2012
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    It's really more that I wish Morgana's affection was real rather than really believing it.

    XyFan wrote:
    This is actually the reason Arthur should listen to Merlin this time. Because last time Arthur was wrong :/ Sadly yes we know he would not believe Merlin again. Merlin doesnt have to tell Arthur that she is a traitor. He could at least say Arhur that something is wrong with Gwen, or to keep close eye on her, etc.. . Although it would be actually quite fun to see Merlin & Arthur both work together to make Gwen normal again. Sadly yes i bet that would not happen. Guess Arthur has to stay clueless and Merlin (and some Gaius) got to solve everything on his own again..
    Arthur really should have learned from the past but he doesn't always so I';m not that surprised if Merlin believes he'd react the same way, especially about Gwen who Arthur hasn't noticed any difference in.

    Day 1
    Merlin-
    Blue shirt, red neckerchief, brown jacket and brown trousers.
    Same without jacket.
    Arthur-
    White nightshirt and brown trousers.
    Gwen-
    Dark pink dress with maroon bodice.


    Day 2
    Merlin
    -
    Red shirt, blue neckerchief, brown jacket and brown trousers.
    Arthur
    -
    White nightshirt shirt, brown trousers.
    Gwen's nightdress as shirt (sort of.)
    Chain-mail and red cloak.
    Gwen
    -
    Blue dress.
    Red off the shoulder dress.
    Blue dress with black cloak.
    Dark pink dress and maroon bodice, and black cloak.
    Gaius-
    White night robes.
    Brown/green robes with embroidery.
    Morgana-
    Blue/black dress and blue/black hood and cloak.
    Blue/black dress.
    (Black dress in flashback)

    Day 3
    Merlin-
    Red shirt, blue neckerchief, brown jacket and brown trousers.
    Arthur-
    Chain-mail
    Gwen-
    Blue dress.
    Gaius-
    Red/brown robes.

    Day 4
    Merlin
    -
    Red shirt, blue neckerchief, brown jacket and brown trousers.
    Blue shirt, red neckerchief and brown trousers.
    Arthur-
    Red shirt and brown trousers.
    Chain-mail and red cloak.
    Red shirt and brown trousers.
    Gwen-
    Purple dress.
    Off the shoulder red dress.
    Gaius-
    Brown/green robes with embroidery.

    Day 5
    Merlin-
    Blue shirt, red neckerchief, brown jacket and brown trousers.
    Gaius-
    Red/brown robes.

    Arthur and Gwen moments-
    -Arthur's had the bed decorated with her favourite flowers, he picks her up and takes her to the bed.
    -Gwen finds his come for him and teases him. Arthur tells her he's in love and tries to kiss her.
    -Gwen dresses him and reassures him about Merlin.
    -Gwen tells Arthur and Gaius that Merlin is ok.
    -Dine together and talk with Merlin.

    Number of times Leon says 'sire'
    None.

    Edited on 11/24/2012 5:13pm
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    boom-moo

    [14]Nov 24, 2012
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    Thanks PS!

    Something else about Arthur/Gwen: Arthur checks on Gwen right after The Sarrum is killed.
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    BrightlyLit

    [15]Nov 24, 2012
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    I liked this one even better than last week, though I'm ready to get my old Gwen back now. I'm sure Angel's had her fun with this, but this evil!Gwen is just not my cup of tea. Loved the scenes with her and hubby however. Now we're finally getting to see them act married and interact with the level of intimacy we've been wanting and for some strange reason I wasn't bothered by her "problem," they seemed so natural with it. As some folks were saying elsewhere, she's having to act normal so he won't suspect her, so we're seeing the true state of affairs with the way they interact as a couple. Some fans are saying the spell ruins the Arwen scenes for them, l but strangely I've enjoyed seeing them irregardless.


    I don't like her "friendship" with Morgana AT ALL. Something is weird and unnatural about it. Can't put my finger on what's wrong between those two. I can't figure out what's going on period and still no answer to what went awry with Gwen in the Dark Tower since that last scene of them where she was still resisting Morgana.


    Honestly I agree that first of all Merlin shouldn't have left the castle knowing the present danger for the king. Somebody tell me again why Merlin can't tell Arthur that something is wrong with his wife and she needs help? If he put it that way wouldn't that make sense? From what he and Gaius were saying last week they know Morgana has done something to her so why can't they tell that to Arthur?


    Colin was fabulous in his scenes. Just fabulous. I liked the "druid" boy. Now why does he remind me of Merlin's friend in The Moment of Truth. Forget his name. I loved the ending again. I love movies/shows with the suspense of an assassin stalking his prey and the music and drama of those moments were well done. Well, Alice Troughton. I love her; I saw her touch in the whole thing. And I'm loving the Merlin/Gwen stare downs. Of course she knows he knows; and he knows she knows he knows. LOL. That's what the stare down at the table was all about. And did you see the look Merlin was giving them/her in the beginning when the royal couple were fooling around with the bed thing?


    She didn't let Arthur kiss her twice when he tried, did you notice? But due to the fact that other things are going on with them I doubt if that's significant to the story. Maybe like someone said somewhere they don't want the first kiss of the season to be while she's on the dark side. I don't know but it definitely was intentional.


    I'm struggling with the torture of Aithusa. Have his weakness for animals and I always feel it more than I should. Well, we'll see what the future holds for THAT.

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    galestar

    [16]Nov 24, 2012
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    Personally I enjoyed it but getting more and more disappointed at the writers for wasting the last season. They continue to recycle old plots full of logical inconsistencies... I really hoped they would pull out all the stops for season 5 but sadly it is not to be.

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    texasislandr

    [17]Nov 25, 2012
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    I liked most of this episode.I felt bad that the boy had to die in the end and kinda wished they'd move the plot ahead a little more, but it was good enough

    One thing I didn't like is that Gaius and Merlin thought they had to lie to Arthur again. This was a pointless lie. All he had to do was say Merlin went to treat a sick little girl in his stead, they didn't have to say it was for a druid. It's bad enough that they make Merlin lie all the time, but making him lie just so they can add exta humor bits etc. is kinda stupid to me. Made me feel the same when they didn't tell Arthur about the pendant around Uthers neck in S4E03.
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    boom-moo

    [18]Nov 25, 2012
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    What Arthur says about magic:
    -He says that he shares with The Sarrum a hatred for Morgana.
    -He says that The Sarrum and himself have a common enemy: sorcery.
    -He says that The Sarrum is a harsh judge when it comes to magic.
    -He says that Morgana is a sorceress, a High Priestess.
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    Connor91

    [19]Nov 25, 2012
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    galestar wrote:

    Personally I enjoyed it but getting more and more disappointed at the writers for wasting the last season. They continue to recycle old plots full of logical inconsistencies... I really hoped they would pull out all the stops for season 5 but sadly it is not to be.



    I agree with this. They are basically rehashing the plots of s3 and 4, I mean they are doing them better but if this really is the last season, I'd like them to go all out. I haven't been disappointed this year just...underwhelmed. This episode, for example, it was good, it was interesting, etc. but did we really need this episode AND last week's episode, which were basically the same thing? They could have easily worked in the Sarrum thing and Morgana's imprisonment into earlier eps and put Daegel (who added nothing to the ep, imo) in last week. I know we complain about the writer's resolving issues to quickly, and so in some ways I'm glad we are getting a 3/4 ep arc for the Gwen/Morgana thing, but not if all they are going to do is rehash the same things.

    Next week looks like something might actually happen though.
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    boom-moo

    [20]Nov 25, 2012
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    Connor91 wrote:
    did we really need this episode AND last week's episode, which were basically the same thing? They could have easily worked in the Sarrum thing and Morgana's imprisonment into earlier eps and put Daegel (who added nothing to the ep, imo) in last week.
    I agree so much with this, this episode didn't move the story forward.

    Potions made by Gaius:
    None, but Daegal prepares a tincture of rue, milfoil and yarrow to counteract Morgana’s poison.
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