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BBC (ended 2012)

Episode 5x08 'The Hollow Queen' discussion thread

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    boom-moo

    [41]Nov 25, 2012
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    Lol

    Anyway, you might be right. This is from 2x11:

    Gaius: The Druid boy? What's he doing here?
    Merlin: He was guiding someone to Morgana's chamber.
    Gaius: Are you sure? She and the boy had a kind of bond.
    Merlin: Yeah, but this is about more than that.
    Gaius: What do you mean?
    Merlin: What if they'd been caught? Whatever they were doing, they were prepared to die for it.

    So it looks like Morgana was also using her telepathy to give Mordred instructions to reach her room. I don't remember seeing that though but I reckon that it's not one of my episodes of choice to rewatch.

    Wow, quite some digging on Druids and telepathy we did here thanks to Daegal!

    Arthur is knocked unconscious or prevented from knowing about Merlin's magic:
    -He is looking down to the peace treaty when Merlin diverts the trajectory of Albin’s arrow.
    Edited on 11/25/2012 10:50am
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    allenleonardo

    [42]Nov 25, 2012
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    wow I thought at first too that his gift was being good at healing and that he saved Merlin with that healing potion and that he didnt use magic.


    It would have been nice if the show showed us his gold eyes.



    What shocked me the most in this episode was, that Merlin still believes that Arthur would hang him if he knows the truth. Thats sad No wonder that he doesnt want him to show his secret.

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    Connor91

    [43]Nov 25, 2012
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    boom-moo wrote:
    She could have learnt in many random ways. There are a lot of magical people out there who could have taught her (although I think she was portrayed as way too powerful pretty out of the blue). Getting poison seems an easy task going by last week's episode. I guess there are many others selling the same stuff.

    There are a lot of questions regarding Morgana that have never been answered. Where does she live? Where does she get the money to live on? How does she travel long distances in a blink? Etc...

    PenguinSuzie wrote:

    boom-moo wrote:
    And I don't think it has to do with the telepathy being directed to her because Merlin could also hear it in 2x11.
    LOL Merlin hears everything. Yeah she talked telepathically to Mordred and the other man didn't she?

    I don't think she did but I'd have to check that.

    Merlin and Morgana could both hear Mordred's telepathy in 2x11 but in 1x01 (apparently) only Merlin heard the Great Dragon's call.


    I definitely agree that they made her too powerful too quickly. I would much rather they had made her seer power stronger and that be the threat to Arthur/Merlin, rather than them trying to make her an equal to Merlin in terms of magical ability. The flipside of making her some all powerful witch goddess is that they have had to make her so incompetent. I mean obviously her plans can't work and so the writers have to factor that in but at the same time they've shown her capable of doing so much already that she could easily just kill people when they are within her grasp, instead we get ridiculous ideas like 'I know, let me turn her into a dear', 'Instead of killing Arthur let me float my dagger at him for a few mins' and 'Instead of killing Merlin whilst he's in my grasp, I will use poison on him and leave, not knowing whether or not he's actually dead'. I mean we've seen her take out multiple guards with her magic, with just a sword etc. I'm glad, personally, that they showed she cared so much about Aithusa but at the same time the explanation as to why she couldn't use her magic to escape was, similarly, ridiculous.
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    Scop

    [44]Nov 25, 2012
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    I'm not agreeing with Morgana having mind-talk. She never did talk with Mordred when he was coming to her room with the cystal, That was with Aleined. Mordred knew where Morgana's room was because Merlin brought him there the first time. Morgana and Morgause would have used it if they had it instead of Morgause risking changing into an old woman to talk to Morgana and them risking their person to person meets.


    I didn't think it was established that all driuds could mind talk. Merlin never did it with Freya either and she was a druid. I did assume though that Merlin thought the druid boy came to him because he knew he was Emrys, and would have known Merlin had magic. But he wasn't a druid, so he didn't know. When the boy did discover Merlin had magic, I kind of figured he was going to die because that's kind of what happens in these sorts of shows. But still, there's a bunch of bandits out there that know that this guy in an iconic wardrobe has "the power".


    I got the feeling from last episode that Gwen didn't think Merlin was on to her, but she knew he was smart enough to figure it out if she didn't do something fast. She got caught with her hand exposed with the girlfriend lie. She knows he knows now and she knows he knows she knows, but she also knows he's not going to say anything to Arthur because a) he can't prove it, b) it would hurt Arthur too much if he did, c) there could still be a part of her not controlled by the spell that has seriously been hoping Merlin would figure it out and stop her before she hurt Arthur and Camelot.


    I loved the episode. The funny bit's with Arthur worked. It's a bit of a stretch to think Arthur can't dress himself, considering how many times Merlin goes to "the tavern", but it was really funny so I didn't care


    I would have hoped Arthur would have felt something over Morgana's two year plight considering he did care for her at one point in his life. Maybe Gaius with tell Merlin what happened to Athusa?

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    yafu2

    [45]Nov 25, 2012
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    allenleonardo wrote:


    wow I thought at first too that his gift was being good at healing and that he saved Merlin with that healing potion and that he didnt use magic.


    It would have been nice if the show showed us his gold eyes.



    What shocked me the most in this episode was, that Merlin still believes that Arthur would hang him if he knows the truth. Thats sad No wonder that he doesnt want him to show his secret.



    That actually annoyed me the most. It's not even logical to think that Arthur would have him hanged for having magic. Banished maybe, but not hanged. That Merlin would believe this is terrible writing in my opinion to explain why Merlin hasn't just told him already. It also doesn't say much about Arthur, Merlin's faith in him, and indicates that their friendship is a lie. Merlin is there out of duty not friendship if he truly believes this. Really rolled the relationship backwards for me on principle though logically it jarred me out of the episode...


    AlsoI thought Mordred was in a barrel and telepathically giving directions to her room. Morgana was sleeping when they arrived in her bedroom and wasn't expecting them. Merlin heard them so he is able to listen in on other's telepathic conversations. It's doubtful that others can do this as it's never been shown by another characters besides the Dragon who said "Like you, I hear him speak."

    Edited on 11/25/2012 10:26pm
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    boom-moo

    [47]Nov 26, 2012
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    Thank you guys, that was it indeed, Mordred mindtalking to Alvarr and Merlin listening.

    Arthur's attributes to being the great king of legend:
    -Arthur doesn’t approve of The Sarrum’s ways but he is willing to seek an alliance to achieve peace.
    -Arthur doesn’t think he’ll ever be close with the Sarrum due to his fearsome reputation.
    -Arthur agrees with Gwen that Merlin deserves a day off here and there.
    -He is not pleased to hear about Morgana’s ordeal at the hands of The Sarrum and even though he’s come to hate her, he considers him a harsh judge.
    -He has always considered Gwen way more than a servant.
    -He is worried that something might have happened to Merlin.
    -Arthur reckons The Sarrum’s fighter worth when he loses against him in a swordfight. He adds that he’d be honoured to be taught by The Sarrum.
    -Arthur wants Daegal to have a decent burial.
    Edited on 11/26/2012 3:43am
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    dpebbleson

    [48]Nov 26, 2012
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    I liked the episode, though it was rehashed from previous plots. As some have noted, it's nice to see Morgana having a friend, even if an illusory one, it's been ages since we've seen her being kind. Morgause's departure is felt even now.

    Mordred is still not very prominent, even though he seemed a more promising character than this. Could be that he is kept for the grand finale...

    Of course, it was disconcerting to hear that "Arthur is not ready" for magic (reveal), it's kind of a second-hand explanation, since we've been hearing about it for years. So many years, and not enough change. But I think we'll have that reveal in the finale or something, they're building up to it, I guess, what with Uther being re-slain. It should be symbolic for the total rejection of his politics.

    Merlin being poisoned was very well acted, but as AC said, if a couple of herbs is able to solve it, then it definitely loses its impact.

    I think "Merlin" has moved from compelling stories but cheap production to grand production and compelling stories told over and over again.

    There were no Smirks of Doom in this one, and no Premonitory Dreams.
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  • Avatar of boom-moo

    boom-moo

    [49]Nov 26, 2012
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    Thanks, DaNko

    Merlin and Great Dragon meetings:
    -None.

    Great Dragon's riddles:
    -None.
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    illegalferret

    [50]Nov 27, 2012
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    Finally watched it (Busy weekend!) and i enjoyed it, it wasn't one of the best episodes of Merlin but still enjoyable.


    Merlin is far too trusting for his own good, he had his suspicions about the druid boy yet still went with him. Arthur too is a trusting soul, and when i thought about it, realised he always has been. He trust Guinevere explicitly which makes the fact she is betraying him so much worse than Morgana betraying Uther. I like seeing Morgana and Guinevere together even though one is blatantly using the other I really liked how uncomfortable Arthur looked when The Sarrum when talking about holding Morgana, it showed (as it did in 5x02) that while he dislikes his sisters plans he can't hate her out right. I did think it was a little odd that Merlin didn't fix his leg with magic but then again he's like Harry Potter and is never that good at healing spells!!


    Next week's episode looks amazing as it looks like (please don't keel over in shock!) that Merlin will actually take his suspicions of Guinevere to Arthur


    Oh and the best bit in the entire episode "I don't need one" *squee* I actually had to high five my sister at that point, Colin's little look and tilt of his head and the delivery of that line were incredible, I'm really going to miss him!

    Edited on 11/27/2012 3:13am
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    BrightlyLit

    [51]Nov 28, 2012
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    illegalferret wrote:


    Finally watched it (Busy weekend!) and i enjoyed it, it wasn't one of the best episodes of Merlin but still enjoyable.


    Merlin is far too trusting for his own good, he had his suspicions about the druid boy yet still went with him. Arthur too is a trusting soul, and when i thought about it, realised he always has been. He trust Guinevere explicitly which makes the fact she is betraying him so much worse than Morgana betraying Uther.



    I know what you mean about that and that would be so if it were a true betrayal of her own accord, but in this case it's still technically a Morgana betrayal. Something was done to the queen in that dark tower, we just don't know what yet. I find the story line interesting but don't like the fact that Gwen is being used to do this to Arthur which is what is worse, not the fact that he trusts her so. The real Gwen still deserves his trust, but unfortunately has now had her agency taken away twice in order to hurt him...and herself. I've grown used to her never being vindicated for her first "betrayal" but I sure hope with all my heart that doesn't happen to her again.


    Morgana betraying Uther was a real and true one because it was of her own accord -- Morgause never tortured or used magic on her to mess up her mind, so I would say that was MUCH worse.

    Edited on 11/28/2012 9:07pm
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    illegalferret

    [52]Nov 29, 2012
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    BrightlyLit wrote:


    illegalferret wrote:


    Finally watched it (Busy weekend!) and i enjoyed it, it wasn't one of the best episodes of Merlin but still enjoyable.


    Merlin is far too trusting for his own good, he had his suspicions about the druid boy yet still went with him. Arthur too is a trusting soul, and when i thought about it, realised he always has been. He trust Guinevere explicitly which makes the fact she is betraying him so much worse than Morgana betraying Uther.



    I know what you mean about that and that would be so if it were a true betrayal of her own accord, but in this case it's still technically a Morgana betrayal. Something was done to the queen in that dark tower, we just don't know what yet. I find the story line interesting but don't like the fact that Gwen is being used to do this to Arthur which is what is worse, not the fact that he trusts her so. The real Gwen still deserves his trust, but unfortunately has now had her agency taken away twice in order to hurt him...and herself. I've grown used to her never being vindicated for her first "betrayal" but I sure hope with all my heart that doesn't happen to her again.


    Morgana betraying Uther was a real and true one because it was of her own accord -- Morgause never tortured or used magic on her to mess up her mind, so I would say that was MUCH worse.



    I get where you're coming from I too believe that Guinevere is under Morgana'a influence. I just have a habit of forgetting that mid-episode, so end up thinking nasty thoughts about the "evil" Guinevere! So because of that i think Guinevere betraying Arthur is worse in away than Morgana on Uther. Plus to start with i felt sorry for Morgana, terrified of her magic leaving in fear of Uther and could sort of understand why she turned against him. But towards the end she was just evil towards him and she did break and untimately kill him. Typing this is beginning to change my mind on the whole thing !

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    BrightlyLit

    [53]Nov 29, 2012
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    illegalferret wrote:


    BrightlyLit wrote:


    illegalferret wrote:


    Finally watched it (Busy weekend!) and i enjoyed it, it wasn't one of the best episodes of Merlin but still enjoyable.


    Merlin is far too trusting for his own good, he had his suspicions about the druid boy yet still went with him. Arthur too is a trusting soul, and when i thought about it, realised he always has been. He trust Guinevere explicitly which makes the fact she is betraying him so much worse than Morgana betraying Uther.



    I know what you mean about that and that would be so if it were a true betrayal of her own accord, but in this case it's still technically a Morgana betrayal. Something was done to the queen in that dark tower, we just don't know what yet. I find the story line interesting but don't like the fact that Gwen is being used to do this to Arthur which is what is worse, not the fact that he trusts her so. The real Gwen still deserves his trust, but unfortunately has now had her agency taken away twice in order to hurt him...and herself. I've grown used to her never being vindicated for her first "betrayal" but I sure hope with all my heart that doesn't happen to her again.


    Morgana betraying Uther was a real and true one because it was of her own accord -- Morgause never tortured or used magic on her to mess up her mind, so I would say that was MUCH worse.



    I get where you're coming from I too believe that Guinevere is under Morgana'a influence. I just have a habit of forgetting that mid-episode, so end up thinking nasty thoughts about the "evil" Guinevere! So because of that i think Guinevere betraying Arthur is worse in away than Morgana on Uther. Plus to start with i felt sorry for Morgana, terrified of her magic leaving in fear of Uther and could sort of understand why she turned against him. But towards the end she was just evil towards him and she did break and untimately kill him. Typing this is beginning to change my mind on the whole thing !



    We'll all judge better after episode 9. That is, if we get a good explanation. I don't know how the show can escape it this time.

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