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BBC (ended 2012)

Episode 5x09 'With All My Heart' discussion thread

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    boom-moo

    [1]Nov 30, 2012
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    Please post your opinions/comments/discussion topics on episode 5x09 "With All My Heart" here.

    -Spoilers are not allowed.
    -Bashing ships/characters is not allowed.
    -Discussion is welcome, arguing is not.
    -Trolls won't be fed, ignore and report it is.
    -Be respecful, keep it cool.



    Thank you

    (As per usual, I'll open a discussion thread for every new episode every Friday and keep it locked until Saturday. Past experience shows that comments posted before the episode airs tend to spoil the episode for spoiler free people and also, episode discussion threads that are opened days before their airing date tend to end up buried and reopened by different users which leads to confusion and clutter. Any comments regarding this episode should be done in the Spoilers thread until the episode has aired. Thank you.)

    ____________________

    5x09 Masterlists:

    Episode 5x09 magic and spells:
    -Merlin uses an ageing potion to turn into Emrys.
    -The Dochraid makes a dagger fly Emry’s way (using a spell).
    -Emrys freezes the dagger in the air and diverts its trajectory.
    -The Dochraid chants a spell.
    -Merlin can feel that they are being watched (Mordre’s presence).
    -The Dochraid sends a raven out using a spell.
    -Merlin stops Aithusa’s attack with a Dragonlord spell.
    -Morgana blasts Merlin and Mordred against the ground using her mind.
    -Mordred blasts Morgana against the ground using his mind.
    -Dolma awakes Gwen with a spell.
    -Dolma lifts the enchantment on Gwen using a spell.

    Episode 5x09 RIP list:
    -

    Episode 5x09 Lives Saved list:
    -

    What Arthur calls Merlin:
    -Nothing.

    What Merlin calls Arthur:
    -Nothing.

    Times Sir Leon says “Sire”:
    -1.

    Liar, liar:
    -(Evil) Gwen lies to Percival about wanting to go to see the town because she misses it and to remember Elyan.
    -Arthur lies to Gwen about not being distracted, then about being distracted because of state matters and about having a training to attend.
    -(Old) Merlin lies to the Dochraid about coming in peace and friendship.
    -Gaius (and Merlin) lie to Arthur about the sorceress who would help unenchant Gwen.
    -Arthur lies to Gwen about the training having gone fine.
    -(Evil) Gwen lies to Arthur that she wouldn't see him hurt for the world.
    -Gaius lies to Gwaine and Mordred about the contents of the wheelbarrow (Timothy).
    -Merlin tells Arthur that he knows about things of the OR because Gaius told him.
    -Mordred lies to Morgana about Emrys being a name he's only heard of.
    -Merlin lies to Arthur about the sorceress liking to be paid in clothes.
    -Mordred lies to Arthur about how he escaped Morgana.

    Arthur's attributes to being the great king of legend:
    -He trusts his knights.
    -He listens to Gaius and Merlin’s advice.
    -He asks for Merlin’s approval to Gaius’s plan.
    -He risks his life to rescue Merlin.
    -He tells Mordred that he is sorry not to have trusted him.
    -He is ready to fight a sorceress (Dolma) to find out what happened to Merlin.
    -He reckons that he and Gwen owe Dolma a great debt and would concede anything he can in return.

    Arthur is knocked unconscious or prevented from knowing about Merlin's magic:
    -Arthur finds Dolma ‘familiar’ but doesn’t put all the dots together.

    What Arthur says about magic:
    -If he agrees to fight sorcery with sorcery he’d be breaking his own decrees.
    -Gaius told him before that Arthur could trust a sorcerer upon his life and his father ended up dying in the hands of such a man. He wants to be sure that it’ll be different this time.
    -He understands that the kind sorcery about to be done to unenchant Gwen might go wrong and she would be lost forever.
    -He reckons that sorcery has saved Gwen but adds that it was sorcery too that bewitched her
    -He gives his word to Dolma that he will remember that “there is no evil in sorcery,only in the hearts of men.”

    Potions made by Gaius:
    -Tincture of Belladona to keep Gwen into a deep sleep.

    Gaius's smacks:
    -None.

    'I have faith Arthur makes a great king' statements:
    -Mordred says that one day magical people will be accepted by Arthur.
    -Dolma calls Arthur “great King” several times.

    Merlin and Great Dragon meetings:
    -None.

    Great Dragon's riddles:
    -None.

    Aithusa meetings:
    -Morgana (4 so far) where she asks Aithusa for help
    -Arthur (2 so far), Merlin (3 so far), Mordred (1 so far) (Unconscious Gwen, 1 so far) where Aithusa attacks them.
    -Merlin (4 so far) where he uses his Dragonlord speech to stop her attack.

    Morgana's premonitory dreams:
    -None.

    Morgana's smirks of doom:
    -None.

    Arthur and Gwen moments:
    [Enchanted Gwen]
    -“If I lose her, I lose everything”.
    -He is hurt and heartbroken around her after realizing that she is under a enchantment.
    -He accepts to go against his own decree and use magic to save Gwen.
    -He insists that the sorcerer must be trustworthy so it the outcome is not the same as when he agreed to use magic to heal Uther.
    -“I’m your wife, Arthur. I wouldn’t see you hurt for the world”.
    -“I love you Guinevere more than you can imagine. There isn’t anything I would not do for you” He hugs her tightly.
    -He is not very happy to see Gwen carted away in a wheelbarrow “She’s still a queen!”
    -He is very careful when he places Gwen in the wheelbarrow.
    -If merlin drops Gwen he will lose his head.
    -“She looks so innocent, so perfect.”
    -Arthur wouldn’t let Merlin carry Gwen in his arms for fear that he drops her.
    -When Mordred arrives Arthur asks him to check on Guinevere first.
    -Arthur wants to administrate the Belladona drops to Gwen himself.
    -Arthur protects Gwen form Aithusa’s attack with his body and runs to put her to safety.
    -“Not long now my love.” He mutters sweet words to her when he waits for Dolma to appear.
    -“My Guinevere. You loved me once and still do”.
    -He doesn’t believe Gwen’s hurtful words so he lets her go.
    -“Look at me. Tell me you don't love me”.
    -He thinks of the one part of Gwen that has remained untouched by the evil of Morgana and that remains true: her love for him. He reaches it by reminding her of the worlds she told him when he asked her to marry him: “Do you remember when I asked you to marry me? Do you remember what you said? You said: with all my heart. That's what you said, Guinevere. That was no subterfuge. No trickery. With all my heart."
    -Those words trigger Gwen’s sanity and she repeats them.
    -Arthur gets into the lake repeating those words once and again, tends his arm to her and she follows him.
    -[Unenchanted Gwen]
    -Once the enchantment is lifted from her, she extends her arm towards him, he walks over to her and they hug tightly.
    -They keep their arm around each other when they are out of the lake.
    -They ride back to Camelot in the same horse.

    Chestporns/Bodyporns:
    -

    Dungeon time:
    -None.

    Fashion:

    Merlin:
    -Blue shirt, red scarf and brown jacket (day 1).
    -Blue shirt and red scarf (day 2).
    -Blue shirt, red scarf and brown jacket.
    -Maroon robe (as Emrys).
    -Blue shirt, red scarf and brown jacket.
    -Blue shirt, red scarf and brown jacket with Dolma’s dress on top.
    -Blue shirt, red scarf and brown jacket (day 3).
    -Blue shirt, red scarf and brown jacket (day 4).
    -Blue shirt and red scarf and Dolma’s skirt.
    -Dolma.
    -Blue shirt and red scarf.

    Arthur:
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail (day 1).
    -White shirt (day 2).
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail (day 3).
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail (day 4).

    Morgana:
    -Black dress and black cloak (day 1).
    -Black dress and black cloak (day 3).
    -Black dress and black cloak (day 4).

    Gwen:
    -Black dress and purple cloak (day 1).
    -Blue dress (day 2, 3, 4).

    Gaius:
    -Maroon robe (day 2).

    Edited on 12/11/2012 4:49am
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of zeencat

    zeencat

    [2]Dec 1, 2012
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    I loved this episode. I haven't laughed so much for an episode in a long time. Colin sounded like he was on helium. Great impression of an old crone. I was glad to see Mordred, I really like him. Although the story line of this episode was quite serious it was one of the funniest episodes.
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    boom-moo

    [3]Dec 1, 2012
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    I loved it too It really had a bit of everything. I can only imagine the fun Colin must have had playing Dolma and the outtakes that those scenes produced, I hope we get to see some of those and that we get an audio commentary of this episode with Colin and Bradley.

    Mordred is keeping his cards close to his chest yet. He won't tell Morgana that Merlin is Emrys while he still seems to genuinely want to side with Arthur... very interesting.
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    zeencat

    [4]Dec 1, 2012
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    I just kept laughing at how camp Colins actions were as Dolma. It was hilarious even down to Merlin's face when Gaius announced that he had selected a women. I don't know how any of them managed to keep a straight face during this episode.
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    boom-moo

    [5]Dec 1, 2012
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    zeencat wrote:
    I just kept laughing at how camp Colins actions were as Dolma. It was hilarious even down to Merlin's face when Gaius announced that he had selected a women.
    Lmfao agreed on both accounts! I guess the campness was the only way that Merlin came up with to play a lady Lol Too funny indeed!

    At least Arthur and Mordred found her familiar, that's something
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    zeencat

    [6]Dec 1, 2012
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    LOL! I think your right. I was at one point expecting him to break into song and dance. "There is something familiar about her." At least that is something. tut tut on Arthur forgetting Merlin.
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    boom-moo

    [7]Dec 1, 2012
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    Lol he was willing to give Merlin an afternoon off. Loved Merlin's request though.

    Very nice Arthur/Gwen too
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    BrightlyLit

    [8]Dec 1, 2012
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    I guess this was just a humor episode then? Because I was expecting more depth or something from what I heard. And that hangman thing was off. She didn't remember her vows, but her engagement acceptance. I hate being thrown off like that from reviews and things.


    I laughed at several places but ended up laughing at the unenchantment scene which was not supposed to be funny. I mean, I'm the biggest Arwen fan ever, but that was really lacking. So much so I was shaking my head and laughing. Indeed it was corny and I wonder how Brad and Angel felt doing it. I mean, they could have made it more grown up than that. That was unbelievably bad. Not the acting but the content.


    Anyway, I think they've had too much heaviness this season and were trying to lighten up so....they chose to do it here and it's comic relief for many, so what the heck. I hated Gwen's enchantment but the last three episodes had way more substance and were better directed IMO. We didn't even find out how Merlin got Arthur to know about it and maybe it's me but the whole thing required to undo the spell didn't make sense or wasn't really clear. Maybe it's just me and as I said, I'll just take it as a comedy episode then.


    I'm glad Gwen is back, but it seemed so anti-climatic or something. I'll watch again and maybe I'll feel better. Just my humble opinion after I stopped laughing. And not at the humor.

    Edited on 12/01/2012 1:30pm
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    boom-moo

    [9]Dec 1, 2012
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    BrightlyLit wrote:

    She didn't remember her vows, but her engagement acceptance

    Which is odd because as far as I remember she didn't say anythng like that. From 4x09:

    Arthur: Guinevere, will you do me the honour of becoming my wife?
    (They stare at each other for some seconds. Gwen suddenly hugs him tightly, overwhelmed)
    Arthur: Is that a 'yes'?
    Gwen: (Breaking the hug and smiling widely) Oh, sorry. Yes! Yes! Yes!
    (Arthur laughs pleased and puts a ring on her hand).

    What am I missing?
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    Connor91

    [10]Dec 1, 2012
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    I'm not sure how I feel about this episode, I thought the set pieces of the ep were pretty weak (i.e. Colin as Dolma and Gwen being cured) however I did like the scenes between Merlin and Mordred, Gaius and Arthur and Mordred and Morgana.

    I just found the whole thing quite anti climatic I guess?
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    boom-moo

    [11]Dec 1, 2012
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    I liked the unenchantment. It felt a bit rushed but I liked it that Arthur made Gwen go to the one place that was only theirs, a very unique and private memory to cling to for sanity Now the aura and stuff was a bit meh but the core of it I really enjoyed.
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    zeencat

    [12]Dec 1, 2012
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    I can't say I was really that bothered by the enchantment. I enjoyed the Mordred character development and the hilarity of Dolma. or Colin on helium.
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    trek

    [13]Dec 1, 2012
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    Found this episode far better than the last few.


    I really hope that Arthur does actually remember that magic saved his wife and that it isn't all bad... sadly I don't think so.


    Mordred is really interesting as a character. If only Merlin actually knew what he did to Morgana... I feel really bad for him though - Merlin seems to be trying to distance himself from him and he hasn't actually done anything 'bad' yet. I've got an idea from afanfic that perhaps even though Mordred will possibly kill Arthur it could be in two ways depending on how the other characters act (either he kills him accidentally or on purpose) and although that is unlikely, it brings up an idea for me that Mordred will be driven to evil because of how others treat him/magic, and if that happens I'll feel much more sympathetic towards him...


    Old woman Merlin was really funny Can't help but feeling that Arthur is really really stupid and oblivious to everything... Kept thinking how obvious is it that the woman is 'Dragoon'.


    I wish Mordred and Merlin would relate to each other more about magic like the grave scene earlier in the series... even if Merlin is suspicious about Mordred it would be nice if they actually worked towards a goal for some reason. A bit late now but an episode where they were forced to work together for some reason would have been nice.

    Edited on 12/01/2012 1:50pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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    Connor91

    [14]Dec 1, 2012
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    Also, I love the fact that Morgana lives in the woods with her pet dragon but can acquire armies, bandits, a horse, money, etc. at a moment's notice lol.
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    zeencat

    [15]Dec 1, 2012
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    boom-moo wrote:
    BrightlyLit wrote:

    She didn't remember her vows, but her engagement acceptance

    Which is odd because as far as I remember she didn't say anythng like that. From 4x09:

    Arthur: Guinevere, will you do me the honour of becoming my wife?
    (They stare at each other for some seconds. Gwen suddenly hugs him tightly, overwhelmed)
    Arthur: Is that a 'yes'?
    Gwen: (Breaking the hug and smiling widely) Oh, sorry. Yes! Yes! Yes!
    (Arthur laughs pleased and puts a ring on her hand).

    What am I missing?


    Your right. This was said in the first engagement episode but remember they got reengaged at the end of season 4. He walks into the bedroom and asks her and she says "Yes, Yes, with all my heart". Or something like that.
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    boom-moo

    [16]Dec 1, 2012
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    zeencat wrote:
    Your right. This was said in the first engagement episode but remember they got reengaged at the end of season 4. He walks into the bedroom and asks her and she says "Yes, Yes, with all my heart". Or something like that.
    True, thank you Here it is:

    Gwen: If you want me to go, to return to Ealdor...
    Arthur: I want you to stay. Guinevere...
    Gwen: You don't have to say anything.
    Arthur: Whatever happened between us...
    Gwen: Please, I can't forgive myself.
    Arthur: I don't care. I just don't ever want to lose you (Taking her hands in his) Will you marry me?
    Gwen: Yes! Yes, with all my heart!
    (They kiss)
    Edited on 12/01/2012 2:03pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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    BrightlyLit

    [17]Dec 1, 2012
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    boom-moo wrote:
    zeencat wrote:
    Your right. This was said in the first engagement episode but remember they got reengaged at the end of season 4. He walks into the bedroom and asks her and she says "Yes, Yes, with all my heart". Or something like that.
    True, thank you Here it is: Gwen: If you want me to go, to return to Ealdor... Arthur: I want you to stay. Guinevere... Gwen: You don't have to say anything. Arthur: Whatever happened between us... Gwen: Please, I can't forgive myself. Arthur: I don't care. I just don't ever want to lose you (Taking her hands in his) Will you marry me? Gwen: Yes! Yes, with all my heart! (They kiss)


    Yes, I was talking about the second engagement, but we were led to believe she'd remember her wedding vows so I was a bit disappointed and hopeful we'd get something of the wedding itself. Should have known better because of the words of the title of the episode. At least they re-visited something from the past.


    I'm going to watch again and hopefully feel better about it. My personal preference would have been to have had one of the evil!Gwen episodes be more humorous like the Servant to Two Masters was from last year and this one have more drama, but that of course is their decision and many folks were given a lot of enjoyment from it so oh well. I'm about to re-watch and tend to like episodes better when I do.


    Don't think I mentioned this but the Arthur/Gwen scenes in the castle were excellent. They were so realistic as to how he was with her knowing what he did but she not realizing that he knew. For some reason it made her deceit more obvious. Also, the scenes with Mordred and Merlin had a lot of depth to them as did the one with Mordred and Morgana. These are setting us up for what's ahead and I think these three principals are going to be front and center and they will not be able to do much comedy with what those three will be all about I'm sure.


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    boom-moo

    [18]Dec 1, 2012
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    I, for one, don't take reviewers seriously

    Call me naive but in the scene where Arthur grabs his sword to free his arm from under the rock (just before Mordred arrives) does anyone think that he intended to chop it off? Because I just read it and it made me shudder. I thought he was gonna try and use the sword as a crowbar to try and lift the rock enough to get his arm out.
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    zeencat

    [19]Dec 1, 2012
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    boom-moo wrote:
    I, for one, don't take reviewers seriously Call me naive but in the scene where Arthur grabs his sword to free his arm from under the rock (just before Mordred arrives) does anyone think that he intended to chop it off? Because I just read it and it made me shudder. I thought he was gonna try and use the sword as a crowbar to try and lift the rock enough to get his arm out.
    That was my thought as well. I don't think he would of resorted to cutting his own arm off a few seconds after just falling. He may of been trying to use his sword to tap Merlin with it.


    It was also interesting how Merlin was holding his "Dragonlord" status close to his chest when Mordred quizzed him about how he dealt with the dragon.

    Edited on 12/01/2012 3:26pm
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    BrightlyLit

    [20]Dec 1, 2012
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    zeencat wrote:


    boom-moo wrote:
    I, for one, don't take reviewers seriously Call me naive but in the scene where Arthur grabs his sword to free his arm from under the rock (just before Mordred arrives) does anyone think that he intended to chop it off? Because I just read it and it made me shudder. I thought he was gonna try and use the sword as a crowbar to try and lift the rock enough to get his arm out.
    That was my thought as well. I don't think he would of resorted to cutting his own arm off a few seconds after just falling. He may of been trying to use his sword to tap Merlin with it.


    It was also interesting how Merlin was holding his "Dragonlord" status close to his chest when Mordred quizzed him about how he dealt with the dragon.



    Didn't Arthur say something to Mordred after his relief of him being there - something about saving his arm or the like? I still haven't re-watched yet, but I'll look for that.

    Edited on 12/01/2012 4:31pm
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