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BBC (ended 2012)

Episode 5x11 'The Drawing of the Dark' discussion thread

  • Avatar of boom-moo

    boom-moo

    [21]Dec 15, 2012
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    Fashion:

    Merlin:
    -Blue shirt, red scarf and brown jacket with brown blanket over his shoulders (day 1).
    -Blue shirt, red scarf and brown jacket
    -Red shirt, blue scarf and brown jacket (day 2).
    -Red shirt, blue scarf and brown jacket (day 3).
    -Blue shirt, red scarf and brown jacket (day 4).

    Arthur:
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail with voiders (arm armour piece) and hauberk (chest armour piece) and Camelot cloak (day 1).
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail with voiders (arm armour piece) and hauberk (chest armour piece).
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail.
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail (day 2).
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail with voiders (arm armour piece) and hauberk (chest armour piece).
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail with voiders (arm armour piece) and hauberk (chest armour piece) and Camelot cloak (day 3).
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail.
    -Red padded shirt.
    -White shirt.
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail.
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail with voiders (arm armour piece) and hauberk (chest armour piece).
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail.
    -White shirt.
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail (day 4).
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail with Camelot cloak.
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail.

    Morgana:
    -Black dress and black cloak (day 4).

    Gwen:
    -Purple dress (day 1).
    -Off the shoulders red velvet dress (day 3).
    -Purple dress.
    -Off the shoulders red velvet dress (day 4).

    Gaius:
    -Maroon robe (day 1).
    -Green robe (day 3).
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    PenguinSuzie

    [22]Dec 15, 2012
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    Does Arthur know 100% that Mordred has magic. He used magic to escape the cellar so there must be suspicions at the very least, but I wonder if that would be enough for Arthur. When it comes to who has magic he isn't very quick to suspect someone even if the evidence is glaring. So I wonder if he definitely knows now or if it's a probably thing. He said he should never have trusted him and it sort of paned over to Merlin and it implied it but it didn't seem implicit. The implication that he'd feel the same if it was Merlin was pretty upsetting.

    Edited on 12/15/2012 10:58pm
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  • Avatar of XyFan

    XyFan

    [23]Dec 16, 2012
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    Oh the ending. The ending. If everything has to go wrong it goes.. It all could have been solved if Merlin had to team up with Mordred and help Kara escape. Like always, But! then we'd have no awesome storyline that now will follow.


    I feel so sorry for Mordred, right now it is exactly that he is a good guy, but he has his reasons to be on Morgana's side. If same thing had happened to me i'd have done the same. I'd be so disappointed in Arthur and Merlin as well. I think we all can understand his reasons.


    The creature of knowledge was so right to say that Arthur's bane is himself. And i just love it that everyone has their reasons to be on the sides they are.. makes me feel sorry for every character :/ Even Morgana



    PenguinSuzie wrote:


    Does Arthur know 100% that Mordred has magic. He used magic to escape the cellar so there must be suspicions at the very least, but I wonder if that would be enough for Arthur. When it comes to who has magic he isn't very quick to suspect someone even if the evidence is glaring. So I wonder if he definitely knows now or if it's a probably thing. He said he should never have trusted him and it sort of paned over to Merlin and it implied it but it didn't seem implicit. The implication that he'd feel the same if it was Merlin was pretty upsetting.



    Knowing that Arthur is Arthur i dont think he knows that Mordred has magic.. Then again, maybe. I think he needs to see with his own eyes to see the proof. And Merlin can't tell..



    Ahh Merlin's gonna be in a really deep ****, can not wait to see it.

    Edited on 12/16/2012 4:13am
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  • Avatar of dpebbleson

    dpebbleson

    [24]Dec 16, 2012
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    This was quite a good episode. Needless to say, Mordred was excellent in this episode. The actor did an exceptional job in portraying the moral dilemma. Though I have to agree with above (Esther I believe) that in the end, it didn't take him much to switch allegiances. When we see how much Merlin suffered at Uther's and even Arthur's hand, how much he had to give up, and he still stayed loyal, Mordred seems very fragile in sense of ethics.

    Arthur can be very shortsighted at times, but in this episode I believe he tried pretty much everything to prevent the disaster. He did not want to kill the girl in the first place, but to help her, and in return she tried to kill him. When questioned at court, she pronounced a judgment against him. Then she killed a guard, and he was still willing to let her go, for the sake of peace. He even said that he had to qualms with druids. But she still refused to repent, as if her murder was somehow more humane than his murders. And he already tried to atone for them in "The Herald of the New Age". All in all, she was like Morgana, pretty fanatical, and not at all reasonable.

    In the end, it seems that Merlin has somehow brought about the disaster, by connecting all those events through his actions. It would have been better if he let Mordred escape with her, but he thought it were wiser for him to stay near Arthur. This was a misjudgment, I believe. Then he pressed for letting Kara go, and when he succeeded, it backfired on him - though it can't be his fault that she was so stubborn.

    Yet it seems no one is more fanatical than Morgana. She was willing to 'forgive' Mordred if only he told her who Emrys was. Too bad we didn't see her true reaction, except for the Smirk of Utter Hatred. And I suppose we won't see her pondering the issue in the next episode, and that they will skip to her plans instead.

    I also liked the whole dynamics between Gaius and Merlin, or actually the way Gaius seems to have given up on giving advice to Merlin. On two occasions, it was simply Gaius remaining silent, and Merlin running off to do whatever he designed to do. It might be part of Merlin's failure that he somehow became too sure of himself, too overconfident.

    There weren't Smirks of Doom, and no Premonitory Dreams.
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  • Avatar of boom-moo

    boom-moo

    [25]Dec 16, 2012
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    I don't think it has been made clear but now he should know (the jail door has been blasted off its hinges) and i guess that maybe he does since the only remaining thing is the war itself where Arthur knowing doesn't make any difference. Anyway, if it comes to a one to one fight between Arthur and Mordred, I hope that Mordred is man enough not to use magic and let their fighthing skills decide.
    XyFan wrote:
    I feel so sorry for Mordred, right now it is exactly that he is a good guy, but he has his reasons to be on Morgana's side. If same thing had happened to me i'd have done the same. I'd be so disappointed in Arthur and Merlin as well. I think we all can understand his reasons.
    I understand his reasons but I can't call him a good guy any longer. If he would have helped her escape and he would have stayed behind (which is what Merlin tried to accomplish) that would have been a different story, man-ing up and facing his decision like he did when he confessed to Arthur about having healed her. I totally see how he couldn't let her be killed, but siding with her is as much as siding with Morgana just because. Kara is a confessed murderer of innocent people, repentanceless, blind with hatred ("casualties of war", "Camelot soldiers") and yet Mordred decided to go with her. Arthur and Merlin don't stand in the wrong side of his argument to me.
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  • Avatar of dpebbleson

    dpebbleson

    [26]Dec 16, 2012
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    boom-moo wrote:
    I understand his reasons but I can't call him a good guy any longer. If he would have helped her escape and he would have stayed behind (which is what Merlin tried to accomplish) that would have been a different story, man-ing up and facing his decision like he did when he confessed to Arthur about having healed her. I totally see how he couldn't let her be killed, but siding with her is as much as siding with Morgana just because. Kara is a confessed murderer of innocent people, repentanceless, blind with hatred ("casualties of war", "Camelot soldiers") and yet Mordred decided to go with her. Arthur and Merlin don't stand in the wrong side of his argument to me.


    I think both Kara and Morgana deal with preconceptions of Arthur being contra-magic, and can't shake them off. Whatever he does, they won't acknowledge the change. Instead they repeat the same, even though he repented for killing the druids, even though he did save Mordred long ago, even though he did save that old woman who gave him the horn to bring Uther back, even though he did understand Will in "The Moment of Truth" and didn't really condemn him, even though he, for a moment admitted magic could be good in "The Sins of the Father"... There are many points on which to build up, so why haven't some magic users appeared and offered peace, or helped him in any way? Why does everyone simply go and try to kill him? Why doesn't someone with magic appear and help with the crops, or with battling Morgana or whatever calamity appears? Merlin could be partly to blame, as his hidden identity has kept the 'magic can be used for good' element out of Arthur's sight, but Merlin is not the only one. Not to mention that Gaius pretty much freely uses enchantments and spells when necessary to combat evil.

    So I don't believe Arthur is so much 'against magic' as he hasn't so far been given strong reasons to be 'for magic'

    Besides magic is very dangerous thing, so there is some logic in trying to constrain it. As we have witnessed, people are feeble in moral sense, and even the knights like Mordred fall prey to most basic urges and go to "the dark side".

    However, I believe one of the main reasons for such proliferation of all kinds of magic misuse is the destruction of the High Priestesses. They seemed to have been a circle of magic users who served to regulate magic, and to keep an eye on any misuse and probably to punish those who use it for bad purpose. I think the main mistake of the Purge was removing that 'ruling caste' of magic users, which has sort of created anarchy in the magical world in which anyone can do as they please, and without anyone to answer to.
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  • Avatar of boom-moo

    boom-moo

    [27]Dec 16, 2012
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    dpebbleson wrote:
    However, I believe one of the main reasons for such proliferation of all kinds of magic misuse is the destruction of the High Priestesses. They seemed to have been a circle of magic users who served to regulate magic, and to keep an eye on any misuse and probably to punish those who use it for bad purpose. I think the main mistake of the Purge was removing that 'ruling caste' of magic users, which has sort of created anarchy in the magical world in which anyone can do as they please, and without anyone to answer to.
    I don't know where The White Goddess stands when it comes to magical hierarchy (I'd say pretty high up, what with the Cauldron of Arianrhod being a pilgrimage place and all) but after watching "With All My Heart" I think that it was pretty clear that she saw Merlin's side absolutely worthy of her blessing and her help as proven by the fact that she helped him break Morgana's magic on Gwen. And Morgana is a High Priestess after all.
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    dpebbleson

    [28]Dec 16, 2012
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    boom-moo wrote:
    dpebbleson wrote:
    However, I believe one of the main reasons for such proliferation of all kinds of magic misuse is the destruction of the High Priestesses. They seemed to have been a circle of magic users who served to regulate magic, and to keep an eye on any misuse and probably to punish those who use it for bad purpose. I think the main mistake of the Purge was removing that 'ruling caste' of magic users, which has sort of created anarchy in the magical world in which anyone can do as they please, and without anyone to answer to.
    I don't know where The White Goddess stands when it comes to magical hierarchy (I'd say pretty high up, what with the Cauldron of Arianrhod being a pilgrimage place and all) but after watching "With All My Heart" I think that it was pretty clear that she saw Merlin's side absolutely worthy of her blessing and her help as proven by the fact that she helped him break Morgana's magic on Gwen. And Morgana is a High Priestess after all.


    Indeed, she is something like the supreme deity of magic, or some rough equivalent, meaning all magic should be conducted having in mind some principles that she stands for. One of those was probably the one from S2, "to give a life, you must take a life", which is essentially just and does not disturb the natural order. Hence, while she was against Uther, I am sure she wouldn't be full of praises for magic abusers all over the place.
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    boom-moo

    [29]Dec 16, 2012
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    I think it was also said that only the most powerful sorcerer could summon her and that seems to be Merlin. I hope he is proven to be the most powerful of them all indeed.

    What do you guys think that Kara meant here:

    Mordred: If I hadn't come to you...
    Kara: I would've died from my wound.
    Mordred: It was my fault.
    Kara: I have no one to blame but myself. I chose my path. I have just one regret... only one regret.

    What regret is that? That the path she chose won't let her be happy with Mordred?
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    dpebbleson

    [30]Dec 16, 2012
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    boom-moo wrote:
    I think it was also said that only the most powerful sorcerer could summon her and that seems to be Merlin. I hope he is proven to be the most powerful of them all indeed.

    What do you guys think that Kara meant here:

    Mordred: If I hadn't come to you...
    Kara: I would've died from my wound.
    Mordred: It was my fault.
    Kara: I have no one to blame but myself. I chose my path. I have just one regret... only one regret.

    What regret is that? That the path she chose won't let her be happy with Mordred?


    Could be. She chose a hard path and early death, and thus she was not fulfilled in her love.

    Or maybe her regret was that she didn't succeed in killing Arthur - or what she repeated in front of Arthur that unfortunately she wouldn't be there to see him dead.
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    boom-moo

    [31]Dec 16, 2012
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    Could be too. It's just that the intimate context in which it was said, even the tone and the body language suggested (to me) something different than anything having to do with her "cause" so I was just wondering if anyone had the same feeling.

    Episode 5x11 RIP list:
    -Random Camelot knights and citizens killed by Saxons.
    -Random Camelot guard killed by Kara.
    -Kara hanged by Arthur's decree for her crimes.
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    boom-moo

    [33]Dec 16, 2012
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    zeencat wrote:
    She only regrets not killing Arthur. This could be what motivates Mordred as well. I'm so glad that he didn't just turn against Arthur out of revenge.
    Sorry, what do you mean zeen? What is it that motivates Mordred against Arthur?
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    illegalferret

    [34]Dec 16, 2012
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    I really enjoyed this episode, it was interesting a lot more talking than normal but still it drew me in. All three main male leads (Merlin, Arthur and Mordred) stuck to their beliefs and each i truly believe thought they were doing the right thing. Sadly for them it's all gone wrong for Camelot.


    Several of the teasers/reviews of this episode said that you'd end up not liking Merlin at points in this episode, but i didn't find that the case. Yes he's been overally suspicious and unfriendly towards Mordred before but as the episode went on he tried his best to keep Mordred on the right side, but he will always put Arthur and Camelot first. Merlin always tries to do the right thing only this time he's not been able to stop the unfolding issues!


    I think the Arthur (Bradley James) was fantastic in this episode. He seemed very kingly to me and nothing like his father no matter what Kara says! The way he dealt with her in both of her trials was calm and measured, he gave her the choice to redeem herself but she rejected it. So he did what he had to do, inline with the laws of Camelot. I think it was interesting about what Arthur said about the druids, magic and the like, making it clear that Kara was on trial for murder not for magic.


    Ah Mordred He came across as a misguided young man trying to stick to his beliefs and his heart whilst being mislead by Kara. Very well played by Alexander Vhalos (?). You really felt for him as he tried to save Kara both from Arthur and herself. ANd as Gaius pointed out he's doing nothing that Merlin hasn't done before *cough*Freya*cough*. I thought there was a certain poetry to have Mordred finally turn bad and leave Camelot in circumstanced not to different from when we first met him in The Beginning of the End, angrily breaking things using magic as someone he loves is killed by a King.


    The ending as he told Morgana the truth about Emrys was a brilliant set up for the finale!

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    allenleonardo

    [35]Dec 16, 2012
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    illegalferret wrote:


    ANd as Gaius pointed out he's doing nothing that Merlin hasn't done before *cough*Freya*cough*.



    I dunno Freya did not want to kill the people she never tried to hurt Arthur on her own will. For me the Freya storyline was much sadder than the one with Kara. I know that Merlin knew her only for some days but he still cared for her very much. Mordred and Kara just suddenly met again. Why did he never searched for her if he loves her that much? Kara chose to be a murderer unlike Freya. And she even got a second chance from Arthur. =(


    Mordred really was not deeply loyal towards Arthur it is hard to lose the one you love but she did some bad things. Merlin never lost his deep loyality even after all he has gone through thanks to the Pendragons. (He could even hate Gaius for betrayiny Freya but he never did )


    Some people on other forums say that Merlin should have helped her because she was a druid. I dont understand that. Just because someone is a druid does not take away the crime. Kara could have lived but she chose death. Its sad that Mordred was not there to see this. I could understand him more if she would have been killed only because she had magic without doing anything. But not this way. Look at Merlin, he has more reasons to switch side than him. And if it would have been Mordred in Merlin shoes than I quite sure that he would have done the same like Merlin.


    I am quite happy that it isnt really Merlins fault but Karas. I feared the worst after reading the reviews. xD

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    boom-moo

    [36]Dec 16, 2012
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    illegalferret wrote:

    ANd as Gaius pointed out he's doing nothing that Merlin hasn't done before *cough*Freya*cough*.

    I don't think that Gaius was referring to Freya but to Merlin helping people escape and acting behind's Arthur's back. Gaius says: "It's nothing you haven't done yourself a hundred times before." There haven't been 100 Freyas. And Merlin's reply is quite telling: "This is different. Mordred isn't just going to set Kara free. He's going to leave with her."

    allenleonardo wrote:

    Some people on other forums say that Merlin should have helped her because she was a druid. I dont understand that. Just because someone is a druid does not take away the crime. Kara could have lived but she chose death. Its sad that Mordred was not there to see this. I could understand him more if she would have been killed only because she had magic without doing anything.

    Exactly. Magical people can make good and bad decisions just like anybody else and luckily Merlin is pretty discerning.
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    PenguinSuzie

    [38]Dec 16, 2012
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    dpebbleson wrote:
    Too bad we didn't see her true reaction, except for the Smirk of Utter Hatred. And I suppose we won't see her pondering the issue in the next episode, and that they will skip to her plans instead.
    I didn't see her smirking after he told her, she seemed really shocked and horrified. Though I think iPlayer skipped over part of that scene the first time I watched it since when I went to see it again yesterday it seemed like there was more to the scene. So maybe I missed that. She seemed pretty smirky before he told her though. I hate it when they skip over the important character bits and reactions to things and go straight for the action. The reaction etc are the most interesting and important bits to me.
    boom-moo wrote:
    I think it was also said that only the most powerful sorcerer could summon her and that seems to be Merlin. I hope he is proven to be the most powerful of them all indeed.

    What do you guys think that Kara meant here:

    Mordred: If I hadn't come to you...
    Kara: I would've died from my wound.
    Mordred: It was my fault.
    Kara: I have no one to blame but myself. I chose my path. I have just one regret... only one regret.

    What regret is that? That the path she chose won't let her be happy with Mordred?
    I see it like that too. The intimacy of the scene implied that she meant her being executed for her cause would mean she wouldn't get to be with Mordred, that or she's regretful for dragging him into this and worries what will happen to him once she's dead. Since she thinks so little of Arthur maybe she thinks he'll execute him.

    Edited on 12/16/2012 11:41am
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    boom-moo

    [39]Dec 16, 2012
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    I don't see Morgana smirking at all either.

    Thanks zeen I understand what you meant now (not that I see it that way though).
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    XyFan

    [40]Dec 16, 2012
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    boom-moo wrote:
    XyFan wrote:
    I feel so sorry for Mordred, right now it is exactly that he is a good guy, but he has his reasons to be on Morgana's side. If same thing had happened to me i'd have done the same. I'd be so disappointed in Arthur and Merlin as well. I think we all can understand his reasons.
    I understand his reasons but I can't call him a good guy any longer. If he would have helped her escape and he would have stayed behind (which is what Merlin tried to accomplish) that would have been a different story, man-ing up and facing his decision like he did when he confessed to Arthur about having healed her. I totally see how he couldn't let her be killed, but siding with her is as much as siding with Morgana just because. Kara is a confessed murderer of innocent people, repentanceless, blind with hatred ("casualties of war", "Camelot soldiers") and yet Mordred decided to go with her. Arthur and Merlin don't stand in the wrong side of his argument to me.


    Maybe Mordred had stayed on Merlin and Arthur's side if he had known that Arthur gave Kara a chance. Unless Mordred used some kind of superhearing he probably thought that Arthur let her hanged without any chance to stay alive whatsoever, making Arthur kind of ''coldhearted'' to Mordred's eyes. That actually makes a lot difference, in my opinion.


    But yes it was quite foolish to follow Kara, but i guess he coudnt abandon childhood friend that easily.

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