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BBC (ended 2012)

Episode 5x13 'The Diamond Of The Day Part 2' discussion thread

  • Avatar of Scop

    Scop

    [81]Dec 26, 2012
    • member since: 01/21/12
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    I did like the final scene with the truck. We don't really know how Merlin's been living his in the tween time. He's might have had many family's of his own since then and come to accept the cycle of life and his part in it and keeps a periodic check apposed to a constant vigil waiting for the future time to come. And then there's Athusa. With Morgan out of the picture, they could be hanging out.


    All and all I liked the show. It didn't leave me hating them forever and it's going to be interesting what stuff the production team have in mind when they go it on their own.


    Would have liked a bigger battle between Merlin and Morgana, but I guess that would have cut into the reveal time and they did allow a proper enough time for Arthur to go through all the proper stages of finally getting what Merlin was all about (the person, not the show).

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  • Avatar of JJuna

    JJuna

    [82]Dec 26, 2012
    • member since: 06/17/11
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    dpebbleson wrote:
    Finally I get to comment upon this episode, because tv.com has been very ruthless today. I will start with positive stuff. - The episode was excellently directed, I enjoyed all the scenes, especially the forest ones. Merlin and Arthur in the forest reminded me of 'The Last Dragonlord', it had a similar feel. And especially when they reach the clearing through a door made by surrounding branches and tree trunks. - Music was wonderful as well - The acting was superb, especially on B.J.'s side. I think some found the scene of Arthur's last moments maybe a bit too emotional, but when you think of it, it's a dying person, who wants to end life by his friend. - I liked the scene with Morgana at Mordred's grave, at least it showed the one part of Morgana still capable of loving. One question: how come Morgana cannot be killed by an ordinary blade as a high priestess? How was Morgause then killed by hitting the wall with her head? All in all the episode was strong one, on its own; within the context of the previous two seasons, it is a fitting conclusion, I suppose. But there's something very false about it, and that is the notion that it concludes the five-year-old story line. In my humble opinion, it doesn't. The first three season promise us a golden age, in which magic is free again, and they all lead us into thinking that Arthur will be the one who would legalize magic, what with being more tolerant, being born of magic himself; Merlin keeps uttering the mantra that 'it shall come, it shall come, I believe in him'. I believe the main problem for the TPTB was Anthony Head's leaving the show. Hence the story was sped up to Arthur becoming a king, thus we had a golden age in between seasons. For the first three season most of the talk was about Merlin being an optimistic show, while the last two seasons have seen giving up on comic episode of the season, and talk was redirected to 'getting darker and darker'. I think it simplified the show. They turned to preparing a truly dark and pessimistic ending, and thus had to make Morgana more evil than ever, to remove her from all friends, and to make her unable for repentance. On the other hand they had postponed the magic recognition further, as it served to bring Morgana a cause to fight. Why would she fight if magic were legalized? Hence I say this finale is actually quite good, but for me it's finale for seasons 4 and 5 of the show. As a finale for the entire show, it is quite inadequate. We haven't really seen the Golden Age of Camelot. We were told it was there in blossom, but since it wasn't on screen, it couldn't be counterbalanced with the darker tone. The show grew darker, but there was little prosperity shown except proclamations. The pessimism of these two seasons has a natural conclusion in Arthur's death. But it looks unnatural when attached to the first three seasons, which were promising something else. I don't think it was necessary for Arthur to die. Sure, it was poignant, it made the ending "Art", but was that really true to the show. It feels like TPTB were trying to create nice Saturday fun, and then in the end they took Ancient Greek Tragedy as their inspiration. It would seem like all the banter, all the funny episodes, all the optimism, all the struggle to build up a friendship, ended in a death that was tragic on many levels. When Arthur saw the real Merlin, it was too late; he married a servant, but had no offspring; he found his sister who killed him. TPTB said it was 'the fact it failed' that led them into this direction, meaning of course the Arcadian project of Camelot. But where exactly in the show it worked? Because it was off screen, and of little value when assessing the show. It is futile to discuss what we didn't see. Arthur did grow as a person, but even one king is not a sign of a golden age. I quite like the way the Reveal was handled, but in the end it served no purpose. It was too late, yet another pessimistic overtone. The episode was utter gloom. I fail to see what is optimistic about it. Old Merlin walking in the street dressed in modern clothes, while a truck passes by him, and we see the Isle of Avalon totally demystified. Plus the show makes a curious jump from a time of magic, which is unhistorical time, to historical time of the 21st century. I think this is some sort of misunderstanding on their part. Now they made all those anachronism debates legitimate. While the show was in time of myth, there wasn't worry, as myth doesn't care about Bavaria cans or spectacles. But now it would seem that in history we had a period of magic, that with Arthur's death led to United Albion, which in turn led to the disenchanted world he have today. What were they trying say with that scene? That the time of wars, economic crisis, is the time that needs Arthur to return? And yet it implicitly states that Merlin, in the end failed. He is living in a world bereft of magic; he is without his friends; he is now truly old, and doesn't even look at Avalon Isle, as if he weren't expecting anything to come from that side. It is a world that watches 'Merlin' at home and laughs at its ideals, and suddenly realizes Merlin is still there, and realizes that its crushed ideals are today's society which has gone from enchanted forests to the polluted road what with lorries and motorized boats cruising around the Isle of Avalon (itself probably used for making barbecue parties or whatever). TPTB took some combination of chivalric romance and fairy tale, robbed it of happy ending, and in the end ironized it to the fullest. These stories work with happy endings. The viewers/readers are already so identified with the characters that even the end of the show is some sort of a mini death for them. The excitement of the stories is naturally counterbalanced with the sadness of the story being told. They could have closed the show with 'And they all lived happily ever after' and the audience would still be said. And the audience needn't have been reminded that they live in a desacralized modern world without magic and dragons. They are so well aware of it, once they look through the window. They don't need lorry on the street and old, rugged, moody Merlin with plastic bottle in his bag. With the last scene, 'Merlin' is no longer an escape into a better world, if dangerous; the modern world is part of it. There is no hope in imagination and fantasy, whatever we do, it leads us into this dreadful industrialized overpopulated polluted globalized utilitarian and ultrapragmatic world that shuns God and gods, fantastic creatures, that shuns living species that massively disappear, that is torn by wars every year. Not only is Camelot a failure, but it is a prototype of a failure of today's world. Because of that, the world of myth and magic and legend loses its idealistic capacity. Good does not win in real life, we get it. But it doesn't win in imaginary world, in fairy tale. And that is utter pessimism, a snake that bites its own tail. This being envisioned as a prequel (as far as I remember the earlier interviews), it was superfluous to show Arthur dying, or even Morgana or Mordred. Because of its 'prequel' status, the show always had nice touch of irony. We always knew what the characters would become, and the TPTB played with this rather successfully. We knew Morgana would turn to be a witch, and Mordred Arthur's killer, and Merlin Arthur's advisor. And Guinevere Arthur's wife. And guess what? We saw Morgana turn into a witch, and Mordred into a king-killer, and Guinevere into a queen, but we never saw Merlin turn into the advisor of legends. It's their own take of course, but that still does not excuse this complete darkness, that of course leaves an impression of something 'significant' in the story, full of impact, of pathos, of tragedy, imbued with meaning on the transience of life, and the futility of all effort, that does not have its counterpart in something good that was achieved. Arthur's death is not so much dark and undesirable because it's a 'family show', but because it simply is a bad solution for the show's ending. It is a great twist, something rather unexpected and all, but in itself does not quite fit. It's sad that such a good and strong episode as this had to be the last one. At least the paradox should serve TPTB well: the strongest they had was used for the weakest purpose. Utter gloom.


    I also thank you for this superb analysis. I think you have summed up exactly why so many fans have conflicted feelings over this ending, and indeed the show itself. I admit unashamedly that I preferred the light and optimism of the first three series to the darkness and pessimism of the last two. Yet even in series 4, there were still predictions of Albion and naively perhaps, I thought that TPTB would fulfil their promise to the audience. In a way, the last episode was beautiful. I have waited five years for the reveal and found it natural and emotionally satisfying. I was glad that Arthur was able to come to terms with it away from Camelot, and that the focus was on the relationship between the two. The acting was wonderful and the impact was heartbreaking. I thought we came close to seeing some of our favourite characters at their best in this episode - both Gwen and Gaius were in their different ways, magisterial. And Gwaine, our sweet brave knight from series 3 was back - and what do TPTB do - but consign him to a cruel and tragic death. His last words were - 'I failed'. This could serve as a motif for the whole show, which has turned into a story of complete failure. Merlin's suffering and sacrifices were all for nothing. I agree completely that the deaths were unnecessary. How different would the reaction be now, if Kilgarrah had arrived in the nick of time, Arthur had been saved, and the closing scene had been at the Round Table with Merlin seated at Arthur's side, ready to build Albion together? Mordred could also have survived and we could be left to imagine another confrontation taking place between them in twenty or thirty years time. You are right of course, that TPTB could do whatever they wished with their own show, but I'm mystified why they chose that option. As for the last scene, which showed Merlin condemned to wander alone and friendless like a tramp for 1500 years, yes it is a punishment worthy of Greek tragedy. This used to be a 'feel-good' kind of show. I was hooked from the very beginning. However, if I compare the first episode to the last, I could weep for what might have been. I am left with one overwhelming question. Why...?

    Edited on 12/26/2012 3:13pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of boom-moo

    boom-moo

    [83]Dec 26, 2012
    • member since: 02/05/07
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    Arthur and Gwen moments:
    -She asks about Arthur when Leon brings the news that the battle is over. Despite trying to remain strong she breaks for a couple of seconds.
    -Gwen is at the verge of tears as she watches some refugees and wounded knights arrive. When Leon informs her that Arthur hasn’t been found yet she doesn’t give up and asks to keep searching. Crying, she says that she can feel that he is alive.
    -Arthur wants Gaius to have Merlin take word to Camelot and to Guinevere.
    -Arthur asks Gaius to give Gwen his Royal seal because if he is to die she is the one that he wants to succeed him.
    -When Gaius gives her the Royal seal her voice breaks. After knowing for certain that Arthur is alive she wants the knights to go help him. She is afraid that Merlin won’t be able to cope on his own.
    -She is holding the Royal seal in her hands when Sir Leon informs the Council about Arthur’s death. Following his wish, she succeeds him on Camelot’s throne.
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  • Avatar of allenleonardo

    allenleonardo

    [84]Dec 26, 2012
    • member since: 11/04/12
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    Scop wrote:


    I did like the final scene with the truck. We don't really know how Merlin's been living his in the tween time. He's might have had many family's of his own since then and come to accept the cycle of life and his part in it and keeps a periodic check apposed to a constant vigil waiting for the future time to come. And then there's Athusa. With Morgan out of the picture, they could be hanging out.


    All and all I liked the show. It didn't leave me hating them forever and it's going to be interesting what stuff the production team have in mind when they go it on their own.


    Would have liked a bigger battle between Merlin and Morgana, but I guess that would have cut into the reveal time and they did allow a proper enough time for Arthur to go through all the proper stages of finally getting what Merlin was all about (the person, not the show).



    I knew there would be a truck thanks to the spoilers but the scene nearly gave me a heart attack it was just too sudden. If we first saw old Merlin walking and than the truck driving by far away than it wouldnt have felt that surreal. For me the scene was more like"Hey did I switched the program" .


    Yes we dont know what he did all those years but for me this is exactly the problem. Its nice to have some things unexplained so that we can fill it with our own ideas. But in this situation I wished we had another episode thats only there to tell us a little bit of what happened to all of the characters we came to love. There are just too many things that could have happened. Maybe Merlin changed his gender for some time and lived as a woman or he slept all this time in the crystal cave. And this can go on endlessly If I wouldnt have liked what happened after Arthurs death than I still could have made up my own ending in my mind, but I would at least know how the writers saw it. Now we dont know anything and probably will never know it. The plot with Aithusa was really something I looked forward, even one or two scenes where he is able to communicate with her and accepting each other would have been great. But we got nothing, so we dont even know if he forgave her (its partly her fault too that Arthur died and she only went away because he commanded it)


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  • Avatar of BrightlyLit

    BrightlyLit

    [85]Dec 26, 2012
    • member since: 03/21/11
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    dpebbleson wrote:
    Finally I get to comment upon this episode, because tv.com has been very ruthless today. I will start with positive stuff. - The episode was excellently directed, I enjoyed all the scenes, especially the forest ones. Merlin and Arthur in the forest reminded me of 'The Last Dragonlord', it had a similar feel. And especially when they reach the clearing through a door made by surrounding branches and tree trunks. - Music was wonderful as well - The acting was superb, especially on B.J.'s side. I think some found the scene of Arthur's last moments maybe a bit too emotional, but when you think of it, it's a dying person, who wants to end life by his friend. - I liked the scene with Morgana at Mordred's grave, at least it showed the one part of Morgana still capable of loving. One question: how come Morgana cannot be killed by an ordinary blade as a high priestess? How was Morgause then killed by hitting the wall with her head? All in all the episode was strong one, on its own; within the context of the previous two seasons, it is a fitting conclusion, I suppose. But there's something very false about it, and that is the notion that it concludes the five-year-old story line. In my humble opinion, it doesn't. The first three season promise us a golden age, in which magic is free again, and they all lead us into thinking that Arthur will be the one who would legalize magic, what with being more tolerant, being born of magic himself; Merlin keeps uttering the mantra that 'it shall come, it shall come, I believe in him'. I believe the main problem for the TPTB was Anthony Head's leaving the show. Hence the story was sped up to Arthur becoming a king, thus we had a golden age in between seasons. For the first three season most of the talk was about Merlin being an optimistic show, while the last two seasons have seen giving up on comic episode of the season, and talk was redirected to 'getting darker and darker'. I think it simplified the show. They turned to preparing a truly dark and pessimistic ending, and thus had to make Morgana more evil than ever, to remove her from all friends, and to make her unable for repentance. On the other hand they had postponed the magic recognition further, as it served to bring Morgana a cause to fight. Why would she fight if magic were legalized? Hence I say this finale is actually quite good, but for me it's finale for seasons 4 and 5 of the show. As a finale for the entire show, it is quite inadequate. We haven't really seen the Golden Age of Camelot. We were told it was there in blossom, but since it wasn't on screen, it couldn't be counterbalanced with the darker tone. The show grew darker, but there was little prosperity shown except proclamations. The pessimism of these two seasons has a natural conclusion in Arthur's death. But it looks unnatural when attached to the first three seasons, which were promising something else. I don't think it was necessary for Arthur to die. Sure, it was poignant, it made the ending "Art", but was that really true to the show. It feels like TPTB were trying to create nice Saturday fun, and then in the end they took Ancient Greek Tragedy as their inspiration. It would seem like all the banter, all the funny episodes, all the optimism, all the struggle to build up a friendship, ended in a death that was tragic on many levels. When Arthur saw the real Merlin, it was too late; he married a servant, but had no offspring; he found his sister who killed him. TPTB said it was 'the fact it failed' that led them into this direction, meaning of course the Arcadian project of Camelot. But where exactly in the show it worked? Because it was off screen, and of little value when assessing the show. It is futile to discuss what we didn't see. Arthur did grow as a person, but even one king is not a sign of a golden age. I quite like the way the Reveal was handled, but in the end it served no purpose. It was too late, yet another pessimistic overtone. The episode was utter gloom. I fail to see what is optimistic about it. Old Merlin walking in the street dressed in modern clothes, while a truck passes by him, and we see the Isle of Avalon totally demystified. Plus the show makes a curious jump from a time of magic, which is unhistorical time, to historical time of the 21st century. I think this is some sort of misunderstanding on their part. Now they made all those anachronism debates legitimate. While the show was in time of myth, there wasn't worry, as myth doesn't care about Bavaria cans or spectacles. But now it would seem that in history we had a period of magic, that with Arthur's death led to United Albion, which in turn led to the disenchanted world he have today. What were they trying say with that scene? That the time of wars, economic crisis, is the time that needs Arthur to return? And yet it implicitly states that Merlin, in the end failed. He is living in a world bereft of magic; he is without his friends; he is now truly old, and doesn't even look at Avalon Isle, as if he weren't expecting anything to come from that side. It is a world that watches 'Merlin' at home and laughs at its ideals, and suddenly realizes Merlin is still there, and realizes that its crushed ideals are today's society which has gone from enchanted forests to the polluted road what with lorries and motorized boats cruising around the Isle of Avalon (itself probably used for making barbecue parties or whatever). TPTB took some combination of chivalric romance and fairy tale, robbed it of happy ending, and in the end ironized it to the fullest. These stories work with happy endings. The viewers/readers are already so identified with the characters that even the end of the show is some sort of a mini death for them. The excitement of the stories is naturally counterbalanced with the sadness of the story being told. They could have closed the show with 'And they all lived happily ever after' and the audience would still be said. And the audience needn't have been reminded that they live in a desacralized modern world without magic and dragons. They are so well aware of it, once they look through the window. They don't need lorry on the street and old, rugged, moody Merlin with plastic bottle in his bag. With the last scene, 'Merlin' is no longer an escape into a better world, if dangerous; the modern world is part of it. There is no hope in imagination and fantasy, whatever we do, it leads us into this dreadful industrialized overpopulated polluted globalized utilitarian and ultrapragmatic world that shuns God and gods, fantastic creatures, that shuns living species that massively disappear, that is torn by wars every year. Not only is Camelot a failure, but it is a prototype of a failure of today's world. Because of that, the world of myth and magic and legend loses its idealistic capacity. Good does not win in real life, we get it. But it doesn't win in imaginary world, in fairy tale. And that is utter pessimism, a snake that bites its own tail. This being envisioned as a prequel (as far as I remember the earlier interviews), it was superfluous to show Arthur dying, or even Morgana or Mordred. Because of its 'prequel' status, the show always had nice touch of irony. We always knew what the characters would become, and the TPTB played with this rather successfully. We knew Morgana would turn to be a witch, and Mordred Arthur's killer, and Merlin Arthur's advisor. And Guinevere Arthur's wife. And guess what? We saw Morgana turn into a witch, and Mordred into a king-killer, and Guinevere into a queen, but we never saw Merlin turn into the advisor of legends. It's their own take of course, but that still does not excuse this complete darkness, that of course leaves an impression of something 'significant' in the story, full of impact, of pathos, of tragedy, imbued with meaning on the transience of life, and the futility of all effort, that does not have its counterpart in something good that was achieved. Arthur's death is not so much dark and undesirable because it's a 'family show', but because it simply is a bad solution for the show's ending. It is a great twist, something rather unexpected and all, but in itself does not quite fit. It's sad that such a good and strong episode as this had to be the last one. At least the paradox should serve TPTB well: the strongest they had was used for the weakest purpose. Utter gloom.


    This was excellent. Thank you. I'm glad yesterday was Christmas and I was too busy to think about it much, but today it's difficult again. For a lot of people. Very hard. Angel was right when she said what she did in that interview with the four of them a week or so ago.

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    boom-moo

    [86]Dec 27, 2012
    • member since: 02/05/07
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    Episode 5x13 RIP list:
    -Many Saxons and Camelot knights who die in the war.
    -A Saxon killed by Gwen.
    -Mordred killed by Arthur.
    -4 Saxons killed by Gwaine and Percival.
    -Gwaine, killed by Morgana using the Nathair serpent on him.
    -Morgana, killed by Merlin.
    -Arthur killed by Mordred.
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    f1mademan

    [87]Dec 27, 2012
    • member since: 12/24/12
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    What a contrast to the first episode, a sad ending but still a happily ever after moment. Evil is killed, magic is pretty much accepted and I'm OK not seeing the "golden age" of magic, they'd just be random filler episodes anyway. But I did like the idea of Arthur knowing about MErlins magic earlier on in the season, would've opened different plot lines for sure.


    Also I don't think the message of Merlin was a dark one, sure the feel-good factor wasn't really there anymore, but it was all about lifting the oppression from the kingdom and fighting off the evils in the land. The dragon's right, Merlin didn't fail.


    Plus I mainly loved the show for the bromance, it was always about Merlin and Arthur and I'm glad the final episode just focused on their relationship. MErlin even got a thanks!

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    boom-moo

    [88]Dec 27, 2012
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    What Arthur says about magic:
    -He thinks that Merlin is being ridiculous in saying that he defeated the Saxons and the dragon. -When Merlin confesses that he is a sorcerer and has used magic for him Arthur says: ‘Merlin you are not a sorcerer, I would have known’.
    -He warns Gaius about Merlin being a sorcerer and realizes that he knew already.
    -He wants Merlin gone: ‘I need a Physician right now, not a sorcerer’.
    -When Gaius tells him that Merlin is said to be the greatest sorcerer ever Arthur replies with a disbelieving: ‘Merlin?!’
    - After Merlin blasts two Saxons away, Arthur says that Merlin has lied to him all this time.
    -When Merlin is trying to light a fire Arthur asks him why he doesn’t use magic. When Merlin performs magic in front of Arthur he says that it feels strange and Arthur agrees.
    -Arthur tells Merlin that he thought he knew him, that he trusted him. Merlin says that he is sorry and so does Arthur.
    -When Merlin confesses that he used magic to defeat Arthur in the market place fight that took place in 1x01 Arthur replies: ‘You cheated!’
    -Arthur asks Merlin why he never told him about his magic. Merlin replies that he would have chopped his head off. Arthur says: ‘I'm not sure what I'd have done’.
    -When Merlin uses his mind’s eye to see the path ahead Arthur says that he is not an idiot then, that it was just another lie.
    -When Merlin uses magic repeatedly to keep Arthur safe Arthur realizes that Merlin has done it before. ‘All these years, Merlin... you never once sought any credit’.
    -When Arthur feels like his time is near he says: ‘All your magic, Merlin, and you can't save my life’.
    -Arthur reckons that Merlin has done a great deal for him, for Camelot and to help him build a kingdom and thanks him for that.
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    morinl

    [89]Dec 27, 2012
    • member since: 12/25/12
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    The ending ruined the show. The whole point of the show is for Merlin to protect Arthur, so they could rule together and change Camelot. Merlin was a failure, Arthur died, and now Merlin is a creepy drifter. This is what should have happened: 1)dragon saves Arthur. 2) Merlin & Arthur ride the dragon back to Camelot. 3) Arthur tells everyone about Merlin, saying that magic is not evil, only the people who use it for evil. 4) Everyone praises Merlin 5) End with Arthur and Merlin looking out at Camelot, saying this is a new beginning. - The ending made the whole show pointless. It made the show depressing, hopeless and heart breaking. I loved the show so much, but the ending made me hate it. I'll never watch it again.

    Edited on 01/21/2013 4:14pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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    boom-moo

    [90]Dec 27, 2012
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    Merlin and Great Dragon meetings:
    -Merlin (33 so far) where Merlin summons the dragon so that he takes him and Arthur to the lake of Avalon and they part ways.

    Great Dragon's riddles:
    -Young warlock, all that you have dreamt of building has come to pass.
    -Though no man, no matter how great, can know his destiny, some lives have been foretold, Merlin... Arthur is not just a king, he is the Once and Future King. Take heart, for when Albion's need is greatest, Arthur will rise again. It has been a privilege to have known you, young warlock. The story we have been a part of will live long in the minds of men.
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    rheager

    [91]Dec 27, 2012
    • member since: 11/03/12
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    I have to admit being completely disappointed in the ending. It seems to me that the writers and producers were trying to have it both ways, i.e. a light-hearted family show and a darker, more complex ending that was more true to the legend. It didn't work. You can't sell a tv show as a family show and have an ending in which one of the main character dies and the other wandering aimlessly awaiting for another's return. I don't know when the producers and writers decided to change course because there is nothing wrong with a happy ending. How simple and satisfying it would have been for Merlin and Arthur to arrive back in Camelot alive with the promise and hope for the future. I think with the difficulties that happen in real-life right now, it would have been more meaningful for audiences to have a happy ending. I still love this show and I'm going to pretend that the last 10 minutes of Episode 13 never happened!

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    allenleonardo

    [92]Dec 27, 2012
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    f1mademan wrote:


    What a contrast to the first episode, a sad ending but still a happily ever after moment. Evil is killed, magic is pretty much accepted and I'm OK not seeing the "golden age" of magic, they'd just be random filler episodes anyway. But I did like the idea of Arthur knowing about MErlins magic earlier on in the season, would've opened different plot lines for sure.


    Also I don't think the message of Merlin was a dark one, sure the feel-good factor wasn't really there anymore, but it was all about lifting the oppression from the kingdom and fighting off the evils in the land. The dragon's right, Merlin didn't fail.


    Plus I mainly loved the show for the bromance, it was always about Merlin and Arthur and I'm glad the final episode just focused on their relationship. MErlin even got a thanks!



    But where is this -still happily ever after moment-? Sadly I cant really find it Arthur, Gwaine and many others died. Gwen lost her dear husband (after only 3 years of marriage ) and has to rule Camelot alone. She could not even say goodbye. We do not know if Merlin went back to Camelot but I dont think he did. So Gaius probably never saw him again and Merlin is immortal and has to wait for Arthur to come back. (Which he did not even after over a thousands year ) At the same time we also cant just assume that magic was accepted. Yes Arthur came to terms with it before he died and Gwen also knew about Merlins magic but this still doesnt mean that she now finds magic good. Not after it killed her husband (at least indirectly) and after all the things Morgana did. So there was no Albion at least not one under Arthurs rule. If there was one under Gwen than she would have been the legend not him, so I dont think that the writers intended to make one under her (they probably saw the gap between season 4 and 5 as that time...) Maybe the real Golden Age will only come after Arthur rises again.


    The dragons word "young warlock, all that you have dreamt of building has come to pass"..I dont understand why he thinks that Merlin didnt fail. O.o I dont think that Merlin�s dream was Arthurs death, Magic still banned and that he has to wait a long long time probably all alone for his return..Yes Morgana and Mordred are both death but sadly two of his good friends also (Gwaine T_T) If we had been able to see a Camelot that allows magic after his death than it would have been a bitter sweet ending where his death was necessary to reach Merlins aim. But we sadly know nothing so for me all he did was for nothing and he failed. The biggest problem for me is that we got no real aftermath. We basicly know nothing and can only assume things.


    But I agree with you about the Arthur/Merlin part. If this episode had ended with Arthur surviving than it would have been one of my favourites (yes strange after all these negatives post xD) Their friendship was so beautiful. And even the reveal was well done . But the ending just killed it for me. I am a fan of happy endings and to see such a funny show (for the first three seasons )ending that way, its just too much. No main character had a good happy ending. And I believe that Merlin doesnt really like wandering around for all eternity, even if Arthurs comes back one day, he will be just another human and Merlin will see him die again.



    What I am really interested in is: What is everyones opinion about Merlins decision to just leave with a wounded Arthur? He did not know from the start that this is a wound inflicted from a magical sword, so why did he chose to camp with him in the forest? Wasnt a tent or even the castle a much safer place for him and much more cleaner? And wasnt it kind of unfair to descide completely alone what should be done? Gwen and all the other knights never really had a chance to say goodbye. What do you all think about it?



    (And sorry again for all those negative thoughts, hope its okay to post it :/ )


    Edited on 12/27/2012 12:06pm
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    boom-moo

    [93]Dec 27, 2012
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    Arthur is knocked unconscious or prevented from knowing about Merlin's magic:
    -Merlin help Arthur and his men defeat the Saxons under his Old Merlin appearance.
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    BrightlyLit

    [94]Dec 27, 2012
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    allenleonardo wrote:



    What I am really interested in is: What is everyones opinion about Merlins decision to just leave with a wounded Arthur? He did not know from the start that this is a wound inflicted from a magical sword, so why did he chose to camp with him in the forest? Wasnt a tent or even the castle a much safer place for him and much more cleaner? And wasnt it kind of unfair to descide completely alone what should be done? Gwen and all the other knights never really had a chance to say goodbye. What do you all think about it?



    (And sorry again for all those negative thoughts, hope its okay to post it :/ )




    I'm glad you brought that up because I've had a lot of trouble with that. I don't know how that can be justified. I felt particularly that Gwen was cheated even though I keep trying to make myself feel better by imagining they had a sweet goodbye while she helped him get his armor on before the battle. Though her agony wondering makes me falter and feel a tad bit of anger towards Merlin. So to answer your question, I don't think very highly of his decision.

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    boom-moo

    [95]Dec 28, 2012
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    It doesn't make much sense other than for the sake of drama. However, Merlin finds Arthur after Leon informs Gwen that the battle is won and that they had been looking for Arthur but couldn't find him. Even though the scenes happen one after the other, we don't know how long it took Merlin to find Arthur, and if Gwen and the wounded had started back to Camelot already. Looking for them to tag along could have been riskier than going into hiding.

    So it might as well be that when Merlin found Arthur it was safer to go hide for a while and let Arthur regain his strength than looking for their party or heading straight back to Camelot, we have seen make the same choice several times before. We know that Saxons were still all over the hills so I think that Merlin's idea was for Gaius to try and make Arthur better before going back as Arthur was unconsciouss, unable to defend himself and at his most vulnerable. Only that when Gaius tried to treat Arthur he found out the nature of his wound and Merlin had to head for Avalon instead.
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    allenleonardo

    [96]Dec 28, 2012
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    @BrightlyLit: thanks for your answer and its nice to know that I am not alone at finding it a little strange and unfair.


    boom-moo wrote:
    It doesn't make much sense other than for the sake of drama. However, Merlin finds Arthur after Leon informs Gwen that the battle is won and that they had been looking for Arthur but couldn't find him. Even though the scenes happen one after the other, we don't know how long it took Merlin to find Arthur, and if Gwen and the wounded had started back to Camelot already. Looking for them to tag along could have been riskier than going into hiding. So it might as well be that when Merlin found Arthur it was safer to go hide for a while and let Arthur regain his strength than looking for their party or heading straight back to Camelot, we have seen make the same choice several times before. We know that Saxons were still all over the hills so I think that Merlin's idea was for Gaius to try and make Arthur better before going back as Arthur was unconsciouss, unable to defend himself and at his most vulnerable. Only that when Gaius tried to treat Arthur he found out the nature of his wound and Merlin had to head for Avalon instead.


    Its strange that they couldnt find him, the battleground did not look that big. I also dont understand why Merlin didnt use is "GPS" magic to find Arthur. He did it later in the forest. He was able to defeat Arthurs enemies while standing higher why didnt he stay there or at least move faster. He knew that Mordred wanted to kill him, so I imaginated that he would turn into his young self again and run around screaming his name, not that he would walk (slowly) around the battlefiel as the old man..I dont think that they would have left without searching the whole battlefield for their king first. So in my timeline Merlin reached him first and managed to find a way to the forest without being seen. And this is why the knights couldnt found him and partly went back to Camelot while some stayed back to look for him outside the battleground.


    But they could have also been found by the Saxons while staying hidden. Arthur couldnt even lift a finger so I dont think that he would have been much of a great help anyway and Merlin has powerful magic so for me, some soldiers shouldnt really be a problem. The battle happened while it was dark outside and Gaius only found them while the light was out. So there must have been some hours between it. (How Gaius even knew where to find them is even more strange xD) Merlin did not have herbs and the wound was not even wrapped in bandages so it could have been easly infected.


    The funniest was, that Gaius was able to tell that there was part of the sword in Arthur without even taking away his armour first. And they just left that part in him, which could create even more of a infection. (Mordreds sword must have been very cheap, for it to break even as a dragon forged sword after only stabbing him once XD)


    But you are right. In the end it was probably only done to create more drama (and because they had not enough time) and to show us more epic bromance. But its soo unfair for all the other people who loved Arthur.


    For me it would have been the best if they used 3 episodes as the last ones, not two. Maybe leaving the one with the not-druid boy out. Than they could have use episode 11 instead of 12 to show us the preparation of the battle and the losing of Merlins magic, while episode 12 could haven been used for a longer battle, ending it with Arthur lying in his bed wounded. (And instead of being stabbed he could have gotten a slash wound, which still could have been deathly thanks to the magical sword.) And the last episode could have been used completely for the reveal, for saying goodbye and for traveling towards Avalon. Morganas death could still have been done the same way. This way, Gwen would have been able to say goodbye and the pacing of the scenes would have felt a little bit better.

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    bg_s

    [97]Dec 28, 2012
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    Was a greate episode but ..
    I`m 100% for JJuna and morinl.

    Arthur deaths were unnecessary!!!
    The ending ruined the show !!!

    I watch it from the very beginning and awso want happy ending of it :/
    It was a good show and deserve good ending for all fans.

    Arthur on the round table and Merlin next to him!!!

    There is no no since Merlin came back in modern times ?!?!
    All his friends die and he travel around the world with only thought .. "I FAILED !!! "

    Edited on 12/28/2012 8:04am
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    boom-moo

    [99]Dec 28, 2012
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    I think that the battleground was quite big and that's why Leon and the knights couldn't find Arthur before Merlin did (otherwise it really makes no sense) because as Leon tells Gwen, they had already been looking for the king for a while and it's only after the Leon/Gwen scene that Merlin finds him and takes him into hiding. Then of course the knights aren't able to find Arthur and return to Camelot with the rest.

    Yes, they could have been found by the Saxons while staying hidden but it could as well have been safer than going back to Camelot since the Saxons surely tried to avoid that very same thing and kept the route watched. And as Gaius points out later, two men travelling alone are less likely to be spotted than a big party, particularly if they take the opposite route to what it is expected. It makes sense to me.

    We don't have enough information to be sure but I don't think that Gaius found Arthur and Merlin by chance (he couldn't possibly know that Arthur was wounded and that Merlin had taken him away). The first time that we see him joining Arthur and Merlin he had been picking herbs already, so he must have joined them a while before that and hence he knew that herbs and his healing skills were in order. My guess is that Merlin found him so that he would treat Arthur's wound (and I even assume that Merlin tried himself first but couldn't succeed).

    Lol Gaius determining about the nature of the wound without examining Arthur properly was beyond but from what he says the fragment of the sword can't be removed as it wasn't stuck in the wound but moving of its own accord (due to magic) inside Arthur's body from his abdomen towards his heart.
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    BrightlyLit

    [100]Dec 28, 2012
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    allenleonardo wrote:


    But you are right. In the end it was probably only done to create more drama (and because they had not enough time) and to show us more epic bromance. But its soo unfair for all the other people who loved Arthur.


    For me it would have been the best if they used 3 episodes as the last ones, not two. Maybe leaving the one with the not-druid boy out. Than they could have use episode 11 instead of 12 to show us the preparation of the battle and the losing of Merlins magic, while episode 12 could haven been used for a longer battle, ending it with Arthur lying in his bed wounded. (And instead of being stabbed he could have gotten a slash wound, which still could have been deathly thanks to the magical sword.) And the last episode could have been used completely for the reveal, for saying goodbye and for traveling towards Avalon. Morganas death could still have been done the same way. This way, Gwen would have been able to say goodbye and the pacing of the scenes would have felt a little bit better.



    Yes, sadness prevails over much of the fandom over the gloom of the ending, but there's an extra sting for some. I'm one of those. Funny you brought up the three episodes because I had just said to someone that I wished episode 11 had been used to be part of the ending drama, and how everything could have been spaced better. I liked the reveal and how it was handled and the bromance moments, but was you said about the unfairness to all the other people who loved Arthur is spot on. I think all those epic M/A moments could have been left intact, but as others have said, a happy ending with Arthur being saved in the nick of time would have been so meaningful. As dpebbleson said in his/her excellent commentary, we devoted fans are already experiencing a death with the end of the show. How "right" it would seem to have been to have Merlin and Arthur return and the final scene with Merlin seated on the king's one side (in new clothes) and Gwen the other and the hope for the building of Albion still intact. Mordred could have survived and be somewhere "out there" but not this. Poor Merlin never got his change of clothes except to be a wanderer looking old man in this time period where no one believes in any kind of magic. We don't even know if the Dragon's promise will hold true as some of his others didn't. All Merlin's friends are gone and together in Avalon paradise, and he's left in this hopeless place. We know that TPTB had the perfect right to do what they wanted with their show, but a very bad taste was left in the mouths of many a fan and it's a shame to have your show remembered that way. They really lost out a bit I'm sorry to say. But oh well, life will go on for most of us and hopefully we'll find another show we love.

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