Merlin Forums

BBC (ended 2012)

Episode 5x13 'The Diamond Of The Day Part 2' discussion thread

  • Avatar of dpebbleson

    dpebbleson

    [101]Dec 28, 2012
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    BrightlyLit wrote:
    As dpebbleson said in his/her excellent commentary, we devoted fans are already experiencing a death with the end of the show. How "right" it would seem to have been to have Merlin and Arthur return and the final scene with Merlin seated on the king's one side (in new clothes) and Gwen the other and the hope for the building of Albion still intact. Mordred could have survived and be somewhere "out there" but not this. Poor Merlin never got his change of clothes except to be a wanderer looking old man in this time period where no one believes in any kind of magic. We don't even know if the Dragon's promise will hold true as some of his others didn't. All Merlin's friends are gone and together in Avalon paradise, and he's left in this hopeless place. We know that TPTB had the perfect right to do what they wanted with their show, but a very bad taste was left in the mouths of many a fan and it's a shame to have your show remembered that way. They really lost out a bit I'm sorry to say. But oh well, life will go on for most of us and hopefully we'll find another show we love.



    I'm a 'he', and thanks for kind words 'Bad taste' indeed.. I think the end was kind of a sign of bad taste in the 'artfulness' of the show. They were generally good at mixing tragedy and comedy, light and dark moments, but I think in this one they failed. But I like the optimism of finding another show, sure we will, and this was a great show as well, it'll never be the same because of this finale, but then again it's still full of so much stuff worth rewatching, that I'm sure it will have a long-lasting fame.


    'Destiny and chicken'

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  • Avatar of allenleonardo

    allenleonardo

    [102]Dec 28, 2012
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    @BrightlyLit: You are right living for all eternity is such a harsh fate. One might think that being immortal is great because you never die. But if all the people you love die and you are all alone than its much more horrible. And even if you find love again it will only last for a while Its strange but I like him being immortal in fanfictions. But in these, every friend he loved was reborn again and again so he was only lonely for a short time. But here, he only can hope that Arthurs comes back and even that looks not good And he will never see friends and family again (only if he kills himself with Excalibur..)


    boom-moo wrote:
    I think that the battleground was quite big and that's why Leon and the knights couldn't find Arthur before Merlin did (otherwise it really makes no sense) because as Leon tells Gwen, they had already been looking for the king for a while and it's only after the Leon/Gwen scene that Merlin finds him and takes him into hiding. Then of course the knights aren't able to find Arthur and return to Camelot with the rest. Yes, they could have been found by the Saxons while staying hidden but it could as well have been safer than going back to Camelot since the Saxons surely tried to avoid that very same thing and kept the route watched. And as Gaius points out later, two men travelling alone are less likely to be spotted than a big party, particularly if they take the opposite route to what it is expected. It makes sense to me. We don't have enough information to be sure but I don't think that Gaius found Arthur and Merlin by chance (he couldn't possibly know that Arthur was wounded and that Merlin had taken him away). The first time that we see him joining Arthur and Merlin he had been picking herbs already, so he must have joined them a while before that and hence he knew that herbs and his healing skills were in order. My guess is that Merlin found him so that he would treat Arthur's wound (and I even assume that Merlin tried himself first but couldn't succeed). Lol Gaius determining about the nature of the wound without examining Arthur properly was beyond but from what he says the fragment of the sword can't be removed as it wasn't stuck in the wound but moving of its own accord (due to magic) inside Arthur's body from his abdomen towards his heart.


    Yeah you are probably right xD. Maybe the battleground felt so small because the battle itself was over really fast (for us). True I forgot the herbs, I just thought that he was there the first time and had them with him but your are right. He must have been there at least twice. How he was able to found them will still be a mystery for me. Its not like Merlin could have left Arthur alone to have a chat with him. Maybe he used magic to talk to him via is mind?


    Woah O_o I so missed that part where he said that it was moving towards his heart. Thats the negative aspect if you watch something not in your own language. So maybe it was all planned by Morgana and Mordred. Maybe the sword should break so that Arthur slowly dies and this is why Mordred only stabbed him in the abdomen not in his heart? Because if it was only by accident that the sword broke than it would have been one hell of a weak weapon. (And I always thought that dragon forged swords are unbreakable xD)

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  • Avatar of boom-moo

    boom-moo

    [103]Dec 28, 2012
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    allenleonardo wrote:

    How he was able to found them will still be a mystery for me. Its not like Merlin could have left Arthur alone to have a chat with him. Maybe he used magic to talk to him via is mind?

    I can't figure out that bit either because I doubt that Gaius has the ability to listen to telepathy and I also doubt that Merlin would leave Arthur alone to go search for Gaius. Oh well *shrugs*

    I don't think that Morgana planned for the sword to break, Arthur also runs Mordred through by the abdomen as do Percival and later Merlin with Morgana (well, Percival goes for her lower back but it's still the same). I am no expert but it seems to me that, when holding a sword, the going for the going for the lower abdomen/back area strike is a way more natural motion than lifting your arm to pierce the heart, which works better with a lighter and smaller blade like a knife or a dagger. And I also guess that stabbing under the rib cage is easier than piercing through it. Anyway, Mordred's sword truly looks like a cheap one breaking like that. Again I'm no expert in swords but I guess that it would have been more believable if the broken part would have been the tip instead of a random section in the middle of the blade... lol

    allenleonardo wrote:

    And I always thought that dragon forged swords are unbreakable xD)

    Hmm maybe it depends on the nature of the sword. I mean, the dragon breath provides it with magic (in the case of Excalibur it also made it prettier lol ) but the nature of the sword (whether it is good iron/stell or not, whether it has good balance or not) might remain just as it was forged. Excalibur had been made by Camelot's finest blacksmith (and I seem to recall that it was his finest blade/favourite) before Merlin took it to the great dragon whereas Mordred's seemed like a regular one so that might have count for something.
    Edited on 12/28/2012 10:51am
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of PenguinSuzie

    PenguinSuzie

    [104]Dec 28, 2012
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    boom-moo wrote:
    allenleonardo wrote:
    And I always thought that dragon forged swords are unbreakable xD)
    Hmm maybe it depends on the nature of the sword. I mean, the dragon breath provides it with magic (in the case of Excalibur it also made it prettier lol ) but the nature of the sword (whether it is good iron/stell or not, whether it has good balance or not) might remain just as it was forged. Excalibur had been made by Camelot's finest blacksmith (and I seem to recall that it was his finest blade/favourite) before Merlin took it to the great dragon whereas Mordred's seemed like a regular one so that might have count for something.
    Good point! Also maybe the fact that it was made by a sickly dragon instead of relatively strong and healthy one . Aithusa was also very young so maybe she wasn't entirely sure how to work it 100%.

    Edited on 12/28/2012 1:07pm
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    boom-moo

    [105]Dec 28, 2012
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    Speaking of Aithusa...

    Aithusa meetings:
    -Arthur (3 so far) when Aithusa exhales fire on him and his men as they are fighting in Camlann.
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  • Avatar of allenleonardo

    allenleonardo

    [106]Dec 28, 2012
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    boom-moo wrote:
    I can't figure out that bit either because I doubt that Gaius has the ability to listen to telepathy and I also doubt that Merlin would leave Arthur alone to go search for Gaius. Oh well *shrugs* I don't think that Morgana planned for the sword to break, Arthur also runs Mordred through by the abdomen as do Percival and later Merlin with Morgana (well, Percival goes for her lower back but it's still the same). I am no expert but it seems to me that, when holding a sword, the going for the going for the lower abdomen/back area strike is a way more natural motion than lifting your arm to pierce the heart, which works better with a lighter and smaller blade like a knife or a dagger. And I also guess that stabbing under the rib cage is easier than piercing through it. Anyway, Mordred's sword truly looks like a cheap one breaking like that. Again I'm no expert in swords but I guess that it would have been more believable if the broken part would have been the tip instead of a random section in the middle of the blade... lol


    your explanation of the sword sounds good and its a good way for the show to kill people without showing it XD. It was a random section in the middle that broke off? xD this just shows that it really was a magic sword ;D no need to break like common things do.


    Aithusa every time I read that name I get sad. And I will never be able to watch the Aithusa episode again without thinking what will happen to that once cute baby dragon. Thanks to the writers we will never have a ending to this plotline


    Edited on 12/28/2012 2:17pm
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  • Avatar of boom-moo

    boom-moo

    [107]Dec 28, 2012
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    allenleonardo wrote:
    It was a random section in the middle that broke off?
    Yes, you can see it when Morgana sticks Mordred's sword to the ground by his tomb.

    allenleonardo wrote:
    And I will never be able to watch the Aithusa episode again without thinking what will happen to that once cute baby dragon. Thanks to the writers we will never have a ending to this plotline
    So much for the name Merlin chose boding well for the kingdom...
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  • Avatar of DMarie1184

    DMarie1184

    [108]Dec 28, 2012
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    Well, I've lurked on these boards for months now and I've finally decided to throw in my opinion for what little it's worth

    Overall, I liked the episode. Most of it anyway. I really liked how they showed Arthur's gradual acceptance of Merlin's magic and all the moments between them. I was a bawling mess by the end! I had a feeling that Arthur would die or "sleep" for awhile, as that's the legend and also what the writers said a few seasons ago.

    I didn't care for a few things though, namely:


    1) The anticlimactic ending of Morgana. She's been this evil presence for so long now and it's just a quick stab with Excalibur? Really? I thought there would at least be a bit more of a battle between her and Merlin.


    2) Poor Gwaine thinking that he failed.

    3) Not letting the viewer see if Merlin went back to Camelot or not after he said goodbye to Arthur.

    4) That blasted truck scene! Was that needed?? I feel it broke the whole "in a land of myth and a time of magic" thing. I thought from the onset it was a mythical Britain; showing the truck opened a whole new Pandora's box of historical issues for me (as I'm a bit of a nitpick on that). So, I'd like to pretend that last 15 seconds didn't happen.

    I know some would think that Merlin never went back to Camelot but that doesn't make much sense to me. Why would he go about wandering the world for 1500 years (or however long it's supposed to be) when he can at least go back to Camelot for some of those and be with his friends, who will now accept him for what he really is? I think he likely went back to help Gwen, as I'm sure that's what Arthur would've wanted. Plus, Gaius told him in the woods that he'd have his favorite meal waiting for him and I'm sure he went back for that Perhaps a better ending would've shown him coming back for it, giving us as the viewer some bit of hope in the end.

    Anyway, that's my take on it. I'm not normally a fanfic writer but the ending lends itself to it, namely putting him back in Camelot and helping Gwen. I'd like to even think he might've had a family and some descendents but that's my desperation for a happy ending, which I think this show deserves, even if in my imagination.


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  • Avatar of allenleonardo

    allenleonardo

    [109]Dec 29, 2012
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    First: Welcome to the forum


    DMarie1184 wrote:


    Well, I've lurked on these boards for months now and I've finally decided to throw in my opinion for what little it's worth

    Overall, I liked the episode. Most of it anyway. I really liked how they showed Arthur's gradual acceptance of Merlin's magic and all the moments between them. I was a bawling mess by the end! I had a feeling that Arthur would die or "sleep" for awhile, as that's the legend and also what the writers said a few seasons ago.


    It seems that the Merlin/Arthur scenes are quite loved by the fans and its also the strongest bit ot the episode for me. I do feel strange that I did not even cry once in this episode. Even Gwaines death which I did not know through spoilers didnt make me cry, I was more angry that he found such a mean end.



    DMarie1184 wrote:

    I didn't care for a few things though, namely:


    1) The anticlimactic ending of Morgana. She's been this evil presence for so long now and it's just a quick stab with Excalibur? Really? I thought there would at least be a bit more of a battle between her and Merlin.


    2) Poor Gwaine thinking that he failed.

    3) Not letting the viewer see if Merlin went back to Camelot or not after he said goodbye to Arthur.

    4) That blasted truck scene! Was that needed?? I feel it broke the whole "in a land of myth and a time of magic" thing. I thought from the onset it was a mythical Britain; showing the truck opened a whole new Pandora's box of historical issues for me (as I'm a bit of a nitpick on that). So, I'd like to pretend that last 15 seconds didn't happen.


    The last three are also points that I didnt like. But I liked the way Morgana died. She was just too annoying to me. I like that she died thanks to a weapon and not magic. Even more after her little speech that she cant be killed that way. That was one funny "in your face" way to kill her. . (You know I wonder if she is also now in Avalon or if there is a special place for such evil people?)


    Gwaines death was horrible..not only a little bit stupid to face off such a threat with only two people (but also a little bit understandable, at least Gwaines reaction) But to let him die with thinking that he failed and after telling her where to find Arthur and Merlin is terrible. And to see only two of the group of knights alive at the end was kind of sad.


    That truck scene lol I often read in other forums that people dont like it. I am with you the writers probably did it because the old legend was about Arthur coming back and Merlin still living today (in a tree or in the crystal cave ;D) and they wanted to include it. But it just doesnt feel right to me. Like you and other said, it destroys the "in a land of myth" thing and left us with many questions. Like when will Arthur be back, if even two world wars arent enough to let him return? Or where is the magic? Did Merlin return to Camelot? And so on.



    DMarie1184 wrote:

    I know some would think that Merlin never went back to Camelot but that doesn't make much sense to me. Why would he go about wandering the world for 1500 years (or however long it's supposed to be) when he can at least go back to Camelot for some of those and be with his friends, who will now accept him for what he really is? I think he likely went back to help Gwen, as I'm sure that's what Arthur would've wanted. Plus, Gaius told him in the woods that he'd have his favorite meal waiting for him and I'm sure he went back for that Perhaps a better ending would've shown him coming back for it, giving us as the viewer some bit of hope in the end.

    Anyway, that's my take on it. I'm not normally a fanfic writer but the ending lends itself to it, namely putting him back in Camelot and helping Gwen. I'd like to even think he might've had a family and some descendents but that's my desperation for a happy ending, which I think this show deserves, even if in my imagination.


    And in the end we will truly never know, only chance we have is that there will be a meeting between fans and actors where we can ask these questions. I dont even believe that there will be movies. Its just strange that Merlin was nowhere seen in the throne room with the others. Even though there must have been someone who told them that Arthur died. Maybe Merlin met Percival in the forest? It could have been so easy to just show him in the room and ending it with telling Gwen that one day Arthur will be back or something like that. Strangely I found that the scene with Gaius telling Merlin that he waits with his favourite meal as a foreshadow of him not coming back. And Merlin also didnt say "Cant wait for it", or "I will be back".


    Yeah all thanks to fanfictions XD. But I will only read those who take part after his death if it includes his coming back. The others are too sad for me.


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    boom-moo

    [110]Dec 29, 2012
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    DMarie1184 wrote:

    Plus, Gaius told him in the woods that he'd have his favorite meal waiting for him and I'm sure he went back for that

    Lol I bet he did I always thought that he was the one who informed Gaius that Arthur had died and that he would have remained to see his last wished fulfilled. Aallenleonardo points out, it's strange indeed that Merlin was nowhere to be seen in the throne room. Despite it's easy to think that Merlin would have liked to stay around his friends and see Arthur's legacy bloom, I have always had this feeling that Merlin needed "a break" and that maybe he simply sought his mother's company, made up for the time lost and enjoyed all the simple things in life that he couldn't do while he remained at Arthur's side under the high pressure of his destiny.

    Anyway, if Leon found himself a woman and his descendants are as hard to kill as himself, they surely keep Merlin good company nowadays

    allenleonardo wrote:
    And in the end we will truly never know, only chance we have is that there will be a meeting between fans and actors where we can ask these questions
    I don't think they'll have an answer as it seems to have been left to be filled but every watcher's imagination.

    I guess there must be quite a few deleted scenes from the finale so I'm looking forward to those.
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    AndrewCEnright

    [111]Dec 29, 2012
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    Rarely do I have an issue with the way writers end their stories. It's their art, let them do what they want with it. I didn't really have an issue with the end of Lost like everyone else, and I was fine with the Mass Effect 3 ending even.

    I hated this finale. Every episode you watch of this show you're waiting for the moment that Merlin reveals his secret, when it sets in motion the two ruling and uniting the great kingdoms. But no.

    Spoilers below:



    I'm still completely sad about this even having slept on it. Arthur should not have died. I feel the writers were desperate to make their show stand out with a little controversy, so more people would have discussions like this about the show. A good ending is a controversial one right? So far this show (not without its flaws though I have overlooked them while watching) has expertly blended humor and turmoil, always finding the right note. This didn't happen here, and I will forever hope for a "directors cut" finale that changes everything. Rarely do I take this stance but our lives are sad enough, and there are enough dark, depressing shows out there already, this was one that lifted my spirits just a little bit as the seasons went on.

    Having said all that, they did do an excellent job with Arthur's slow understanding of the usefulness, friendship, and unbreakable bond between Merlin and his king. I greatly enjoyed the progression of that realization, though part of that may be because while I was watching it, I assumed Arthur was, you know, not going to die. But at least Mordrid (previous episode) and Morgana finally bit it so there weren't any lame loose ends.

    Sigh. Still angry.

    I actually did enjoy the surprise end though oddly enough, it certainly didn't expunge the previous scenes but it was one notch in the right direction of feeling kind of happy...

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    trek

    [112]Dec 29, 2012
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    allenleonardo wrote:


    allenleonardo wrote:
    And I will never be able to watch the Aithusa episode again without thinking what will happen to that once cute baby dragon. Thanks to the writers we will never have a ending to this plotline
    So much for the name Merlin chose boding well for the kingdom...


    I thought that perhaps they left it like that for some sort of redemption/more story lines surrounding Aithusa... in many ways the last series has seemed like they suddenly realised with only a few episodes left that they had to wrap it up, and desperately wanted to complete the prophesies etc, and if there was another series they would have perhaps had redemption for Athusia etc. The odd gender change could also be that too - if there was another series we could see that as being a possible future for the dragon race but then something goes wrong (Morgana/Mordred causes something for example?)


    I think they wanted to keep the ending really close to the legend - whether it was appropriate or not - and perhaps thought that if they didn't have it they would have messed up more of the prophecies they had shown (eg Morgana's death by Emrys, Arthur dying at the hand of Mordred etc) and that was how they always wanted to end it - with those things having happened in the show just as in the legend. Forget the fact they had 'slowed down' and basically skipped the golden age in case there was a 6th series - they wanted the show to end like that so much they ruined it for a lot of people...


    Edited on 12/29/2012 9:28am
    Edited 3 total times.
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    boom-moo

    [113]Dec 29, 2012
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    Since the dragon's gender hasn't been adressed in series 5, for all we know Aithusa remains a male. But since TPTB referrred to Aithusa as a female dragon out of the camera, maybe the spoiler about that little girl that turned into a dragon had something to do with Aithusa but things as they ended she seems to be masterless and alone which is quite sad.

    ________________

    Merlin:
    -Maroon robe (as Old Merlin) (day 3).
    -Blue shirt, red scarf and brown jacket (day 4).
    -Blue shirt, red scarf and brown jacket (day 5).
    -Blue shirt, red scarf and brown jacket (day 6).
    -Blue shirt, red scarf and brown jacket (day 7).
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Grey coat and grey hat.

    Arthur:
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail with voiders (arm armour piece) and hauberk (chest armour piece) (day 3).
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail with voiders (arm armour piece) and hauberk (chest armour piece) (day 4).
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail with voiders (arm armour piece) and hauberk (chest armour piece) (day 5).
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail with voiders (arm armour piece) and hauberk (chest armour piece) (day 6).
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail with voiders (arm armour piece) and hauberk (chest armour piece) (day 7).
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail with voiders (arm armour piece) hauberk (chest armour piece) and Camelot cloak (day 7).

    Morgana:
    -Black dress and black cloak (day 3, 4, 6).

    Gwen:
    -White tunic, brown sleeveless top with fur and brown pants (day 3).
    -Purple dress (day 4).
    -Off the shoulders red velvet dress (day 5, 6, 7).

    Gaius:
    -Green robe (day 3, 4, 5, 6, 7).

    Edited on 12/29/2012 11:03am
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    trek

    [114]Dec 29, 2012
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    boom-moo wrote:
    Since the dragon's gender hasn't been adressed in series 5, for all we know Aithusa remains a male. But since TPTB referrred to Aithusa as a female dragon out of the camera, maybe the spoiler about that little girl that turned into a dragon had something to do with Aithusa but things as they ended she seems to be masterless and alone which is quite sad.


    Ahh yes I got what I heard in and out of the show mixed up...


    Perhaps there were plans for some kind of redemption for Aithusa but they got cut for more bromance or something like that? Can't really remember where she was again but I thought it was Wales, so maybe the planned scenes were around the woods or the lake of Avalon that might have been some kind of apology, asking for help or something...


    Or maybe they thought logically about the ridiculousness of the gender swap, felt there was no real need for the girl and the promise of a future for the dragons/Aithusa if the show was ending?


    boom-moo wrote:
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail with voiders (arm armour piece) hauberk (chest armour piece) and Camelot cloak (day 7).


    I'm not sure if I pointed this out a while ago but I wondered where the cloak came from perhaps an over-sight after cutting Percival at the lake out...


    Well these two thoughts have made me more and more eager for the deleted scenes... perhaps we'll see Bayard too...


    Surely getting some of these people on and then cutting them out must be really irritating for the actors (not getting the credit which is part of working on a project) and probably annoys Shine etc too since they paid them to act just to be cut. Not getting credit is even more problematic for the younger/newer actors because Colin/Bradley really joined then because it would allow for greater things in the future, which they now have/feel they have.


    It's also noticeable that Colin had small appearances in Doctor Who and The Catherine Tate Show which provides a starting block to move on to something new like Merlin was then. This random girl might have needed it as a start to move onto something else and is probably why Alfie Stewart (Daegal) joined (although he probably didn't need it as much because he is a recurring character on a CBBC show already - probably wants to be in more mainstream shows though). Scott Haran who is the main character in Wizards vs. Aliens on CBBC had a few small roles in The Bill and Upstairs Downstairs which will have led to his role in that too. To a small extent this might also be why Alexander joined too (some actors would have turned down a role like that with relatively little airtime) because he has previously worked mainly on daytime (Doctors) or very regional (Wales - Crash) dramas, still with only minor roles and provides a good new reference for prime-time in the future. Privates should provide something new as he will be a main character (I believe) for the first time now, even if it is daytime TV.


    As you can see these minor roles while not that important to the show are important to the actors careers and as I said it is annoying for them if they are cut after doing the work (even if they get paid).


    Well that was pretty long. I feel slightly (but not that) worried for the producers cos some future actors for their projects might be put off if they realise what Colin/Bradley/Angel/Eoin etc really thought of their treatment and the newer actors too if they realise they might get cut like that...

    Edited on 12/29/2012 2:38pm
    Edited 4 total times.
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    AndrewCEnright

    [115]Dec 29, 2012
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    dpebbleson wrote:
    Finally I get to comment upon this episode, because tv.com has been very ruthless today. I will start with positive stuff. - The episode was excellently directed, I enjoyed all the scenes, especially the forest ones. Merlin and Arthur in the forest reminded me of 'The Last Dragonlord', it had a similar feel. And especially when they reach the clearing through a door made by surrounding branches and tree trunks. - Music was wonderful as well - The acting was superb, especially on B.J.'s side. I think some found the scene of Arthur's last moments maybe a bit too emotional, but when you think of it, it's a dying person, who wants to end life by his friend. - I liked the scene with Morgana at Mordred's grave, at least it showed the one part of Morgana still capable of loving. One question: how come Morgana cannot be killed by an ordinary blade as a high priestess? How was Morgause then killed by hitting the wall with her head? All in all the episode was strong one, on its own; within the context of the previous two seasons, it is a fitting conclusion, I suppose. But there's something very false about it, and that is the notion that it concludes the five-year-old story line. In my humble opinion, it doesn't. The first three season promise us a golden age, in which magic is free again, and they all lead us into thinking that Arthur will be the one who would legalize magic, what with being more tolerant, being born of magic himself; Merlin keeps uttering the mantra that 'it shall come, it shall come, I believe in him'. I believe the main problem for the TPTB was Anthony Head's leaving the show. Hence the story was sped up to Arthur becoming a king, thus we had a golden age in between seasons. For the first three season most of the talk was about Merlin being an optimistic show, while the last two seasons have seen giving up on comic episode of the season, and talk was redirected to 'getting darker and darker'. I think it simplified the show. They turned to preparing a truly dark and pessimistic ending, and thus had to make Morgana more evil than ever, to remove her from all friends, and to make her unable for repentance. On the other hand they had postponed the magic recognition further, as it served to bring Morgana a cause to fight. Why would she fight if magic were legalized? Hence I say this finale is actually quite good, but for me it's finale for seasons 4 and 5 of the show. As a finale for the entire show, it is quite inadequate. We haven't really seen the Golden Age of Camelot. We were told it was there in blossom, but since it wasn't on screen, it couldn't be counterbalanced with the darker tone. The show grew darker, but there was little prosperity shown except proclamations. The pessimism of these two seasons has a natural conclusion in Arthur's death. But it looks unnatural when attached to the first three seasons, which were promising something else. I don't think it was necessary for Arthur to die. Sure, it was poignant, it made the ending "Art", but was that really true to the show. It feels like TPTB were trying to create nice Saturday fun, and then in the end they took Ancient Greek Tragedy as their inspiration. It would seem like all the banter, all the funny episodes, all the optimism, all the struggle to build up a friendship, ended in a death that was tragic on many levels. When Arthur saw the real Merlin, it was too late; he married a servant, but had no offspring; he found his sister who killed him. TPTB said it was 'the fact it failed' that led them into this direction, meaning of course the Arcadian project of Camelot. But where exactly in the show it worked? Because it was off screen, and of little value when assessing the show. It is futile to discuss what we didn't see. Arthur did grow as a person, but even one king is not a sign of a golden age. I quite like the way the Reveal was handled, but in the end it served no purpose. It was too late, yet another pessimistic overtone. The episode was utter gloom. I fail to see what is optimistic about it. Old Merlin walking in the street dressed in modern clothes, while a truck passes by him, and we see the Isle of Avalon totally demystified. Plus the show makes a curious jump from a time of magic, which is unhistorical time, to historical time of the 21st century. I think this is some sort of misunderstanding on their part. Now they made all those anachronism debates legitimate. While the show was in time of myth, there wasn't worry, as myth doesn't care about Bavaria cans or spectacles. But now it would seem that in history we had a period of magic, that with Arthur's death led to United Albion, which in turn led to the disenchanted world he have today. What were they trying say with that scene? That the time of wars, economic crisis, is the time that needs Arthur to return? And yet it implicitly states that Merlin, in the end failed. He is living in a world bereft of magic; he is without his friends; he is now truly old, and doesn't even look at Avalon Isle, as if he weren't expecting anything to come from that side. It is a world that watches 'Merlin' at home and laughs at its ideals, and suddenly realizes Merlin is still there, and realizes that its crushed ideals are today's society which has gone from enchanted forests to the polluted road what with lorries and motorized boats cruising around the Isle of Avalon (itself probably used for making barbecue parties or whatever). TPTB took some combination of chivalric romance and fairy tale, robbed it of happy ending, and in the end ironized it to the fullest. These stories work with happy endings. The viewers/readers are already so identified with the characters that even the end of the show is some sort of a mini death for them. The excitement of the stories is naturally counterbalanced with the sadness of the story being told. They could have closed the show with 'And they all lived happily ever after' and the audience would still be said. And the audience needn't have been reminded that they live in a desacralized modern world without magic and dragons. They are so well aware of it, once they look through the window. They don't need lorry on the street and old, rugged, moody Merlin with plastic bottle in his bag. With the last scene, 'Merlin' is no longer an escape into a better world, if dangerous; the modern world is part of it. There is no hope in imagination and fantasy, whatever we do, it leads us into this dreadful industrialized overpopulated polluted globalized utilitarian and ultrapragmatic world that shuns God and gods, fantastic creatures, that shuns living species that massively disappear, that is torn by wars every year. Not only is Camelot a failure, but it is a prototype of a failure of today's world. Because of that, the world of myth and magic and legend loses its idealistic capacity. Good does not win in real life, we get it. But it doesn't win in imaginary world, in fairy tale. And that is utter pessimism, a snake that bites its own tail. This being envisioned as a prequel (as far as I remember the earlier interviews), it was superfluous to show Arthur dying, or even Morgana or Mordred. Because of its 'prequel' status, the show always had nice touch of irony. We always knew what the characters would become, and the TPTB played with this rather successfully. We knew Morgana would turn to be a witch, and Mordred Arthur's killer, and Merlin Arthur's advisor. And Guinevere Arthur's wife. And guess what? We saw Morgana turn into a witch, and Mordred into a king-killer, and Guinevere into a queen, but we never saw Merlin turn into the advisor of legends. It's their own take of course, but that still does not excuse this complete darkness, that of course leaves an impression of something 'significant' in the story, full of impact, of pathos, of tragedy, imbued with meaning on the transience of life, and the futility of all effort, that does not have its counterpart in something good that was achieved. Arthur's death is not so much dark and undesirable because it's a 'family show', but because it simply is a bad solution for the show's ending. It is a great twist, something rather unexpected and all, but in itself does not quite fit. It's sad that such a good and strong episode as this had to be the last one. At least the paradox should serve TPTB well: the strongest they had was used for the weakest purpose. Utter gloom.



    Wow, spot on man. Although I'm kind of mad because at first I kind of liked the Truck Scene because it gave me hope that magic in some form could still be around our world... but then your explanation made more sense and now thinking about it makes me sad too... like the rest of the episode sadface.

    Edited on 12/29/2012 4:24pm
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  • Avatar of boom-moo

    boom-moo

    [116]Dec 29, 2012
    • member since: 02/05/07
    • level: 75
    • rank: Rowdy Roddy Piper
    • posts: 135,680
    trek wrote:
    boom-moo wrote:
    -Red padded shirt and chainmail with voiders (arm armour piece) hauberk (chest armour piece) and Camelot cloak (day 7).
    I'm not sure if I pointed this out a while ago but I wondered where the cloak came from perhaps an over-sight after cutting Percival at the lake out...
    Yeah, I realized too, putting lists together helps spot many goofs and incoherences

    When Percival is tied by the wrists his leather armbands are gone. When he snaps free and goes to Gwaine his arms are still bare and he doesn't even have the rope attached to his wrists (and not a single mark on his skin). One would guess that he run to help Gwaine instead of taking his time to untie the remnants of the rope. And then in the next scene, he has the armbands back on (I guess that Morgana laid them down carefully at hand)... which brings me to:

    Chestporns/Bodyporns:
    -Percival’s armsporn.
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  • Avatar of Don_Shadio

    Don_Shadio

    [117]Dec 30, 2012
    • member since: 03/19/06
    • level: 3
    • rank: Soup Nazi
    • posts: 3

    To begin, we have to agree that this show improved so much since the first season in which Camelot seemed quite like a land full of poorly drawn/animated strange man-eating creatures, the acting and fighting wasn't that good and even the story... well I thought was one taken from a book of bedtime stories..


    ... but... well, that's not how it went on, it kept immersing me in itself and now when I look at the series.. I love how the acting, the animations, special effects, fighting scenes, music scores and many other elements constantly improved while the storyline itself -although at times seemed slow- gradually moved into a phase where we hoped to see that all that stood between Now and the Golden age was Arthur finding out who merlin actually is... and would start his quest for building a great Albion, but I guess we wont be watching that... to the disappointment of many.



    Yes there were many loop holes in the last episode but overall its a good ending to the series, except that I found the last scene (modern time) completely unrelated, no theory or fanfic would satisfy me as to why it was shown.


    And why a shard in Arthur's body broken from a weird part of the sword? why not some really powerful magical poison that Mordred had used on the sword?


    And Gwaine's death, c'mon... he always stood upto Morgana with a laugh on his face; so sad to see him die like that, an injury or a concussion would have had been enough. And many more things I found weird but discussing them wont change anything because the series has ended..



    ...in a remarkable way.. I think that the golden age (though with a few question marks) does follow because I think what the Dragon meant when he said "for when Albion's need is greatest, Arthur will rise again" is more metaphorical rather literal i.e. the memory of the brave king Arthur will always be there for the forces of good making them triumph over evil, it would be the driving force for the warriors of Camelot as they head from battle to battle and make one united kingdom known as Albion while Merlin always helping from the shadows... why? because Arthur wants him to be how he has always been, for..... *deep breadth*.... some things.. are even precious than riches and glory.




    Edited on 12/30/2012 8:56am
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of sendean77

    sendean77

    [118]Dec 30, 2012
    • member since: 11/25/11
    • level: 1
    • rank: Weatherman
    • posts: 7

    Random thought: I was extremely pleased that Gaius survived until the very end of the series as we see him standing near Gwen in that final scene. Most who found out about Merlin's magic ended up beyond the veil, but thankfully not Gaius, for he alone knows everything Merlin has done for the kingdom. In my mind I envision a deleted scene: Gaius approaches Geoffrey of Monmouth and says to him, "Do I have some tales to share with you!" And thus the Arthurian legend and The Adventures of Merlin are born!


    "Don't be dismayed at good-byes. A farewell is necessary before you can meet again. And meeting again, after moments or lifetimes, is certain for those who are friends. (Richard Bach)


    "Magic is when two friends walk in opposite directions but still stay side by side." (Unknown)


    "Count your life by smiles, not tears; Count your age by friends, not years." (Unknown)



    (Thank-you Boom-moo for moderating this forum and adding your points-of-view which aligned with mine and made me feel better!)

    Edited on 12/30/2012 10:28am
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  • Avatar of PenguinSuzie

    PenguinSuzie

    [119]Dec 30, 2012
    • member since: 08/19/11
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 1,012

    Don_Shadio wrote:
    To begin, we have to agree that this show improved so much since the first season in which Camelot seemed quite like a land full of poorly drawn/animated strange man-eating creatures, the acting and fighting wasn't that good and even the story... well I thought was one taken from a book of bedtime stories.
    I always thought the show was pretty good. It didn't start of with a huge budget but I think it did pretty well It wasn't hard drama, but It wasn't really taking itself 100% seriously, there was always a lot of fun. It's always been a show with a lot of heart. While I do think the the show has improved, making something darker and more serious doesn't mean it's better. I can think of tons of fun campy shows that were utterly brilliant. They've always managed to mix drama and humour, and the character's were always interesting.

    Edited on 12/30/2012 11:12am
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  • Avatar of allenleonardo

    allenleonardo

    [120]Dec 30, 2012
    • member since: 11/04/12
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 54

    Don_Shadio wrote:
    ...in a remarkable way.. I think that the golden age (though with a few question marks) does follow because I think what the Dragon meant when he said "for when Albion's need is greatest, Arthur will rise again" is more metaphorical rather literal i.e. the memory of the brave king Arthur will always be there for the forces of good making them triumph over evil, it would be the driving force for the warriors of Camelot as they head from battle to battle and make one united kingdom known as Albion while Merlin always helping from the shadows... why? because Arthur wants him to be how he has always been, for..... *deep breadth*.... some things.. are even precious than riches and glory.



    Should the dragons words really be only meant as metaphorical, than all I can say is: Poor poor Merlin..he would be waiting for something that will not come. I mean he is waiting for all these years for Arthur and in the end he wont come back? Ouch. For me the guy has got the most terrible fate of all. First he always had to protect Arthur and Camelot without getting the respect he deserves. (We can only speculate if he got it later) Than all the decisions he made did not change the destiny of Arthur dieing, some even supported that destiny. Nearly all the people who knew his secret died and at the end everything was for nothing because he could not save is friend. And he probably wont see all of his beloved ones again because of his immortality. What had he done to deserve such a destiny?


    But if the golden age happened after his death, than why should Arthur be the important historical character? Even if he was some kind of force in the mind of the others than its still them who created Albion not him. Thats the problem I have with the "no golden age while he was alive" plot. Yes he was a nice king and could do nice battle speeches () but this doesnt make one a legend. The people with magic were still not free under his rule. He still saw most of them as bad people. The 3 years of peace were only happening because Morgana was captured, it was destroyed the moment she was free again And even though I love Arthur, I still cant see why he should be the once and future king, he was still too young and had much to learn. (Like learing how to dress himself XD) If he had time to rule the kingdom for a long time than I could see him becoming that King of the Arthurian legends, but not after four years on the throne.

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