TV.com will be making some changes to our user base starting Feb 25, 2015. For more information click here

Merlin Forums

BBC (ended 2012)

Episode 5x13 'The Diamond Of The Day Part 2' discussion thread

  • Avatar of boom-moo

    boom-moo

    [121]Dec 30, 2012
    • member since: 02/05/07
    • level: 75
    • rank: Rowdy Roddy Piper
    • posts: 135,688
    sendean77 wrote:

    (Thank-you Boom-moo for moderating this forum and adding your points-of-view which aligned with mine and made me feel better!)

    You are welcome I have missed Geoffrey of Monmouth in s5.

    allenleonardo wrote:

    Thats the problem I have with the "no golden age while he was alive" plot

    Well, the Golden Age (TPTB's definition of Golden Age) happened between s4 and s5.

    Potions made by Gaius:
    -None.

    Gaius's smacks:
    -None.
    Edited on 12/30/2012 12:51pm
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of sendean77

    sendean77

    [122]Dec 30, 2012
    • member since: 11/25/11
    • level: 1
    • rank: Weatherman
    • posts: 7

    Another random thought: I liked the "symmetry" in the following:


    Episode 4x13, Arthur says to Merlin: "I came back because you're the only friend I have, and I couldn't bear to lose you."


    Episode 5x13, Merlin says to Arthur: "I also do this because . . .you're my friend and I don't want to lose you."


    Lovely, Julian Jones.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of DMarie1184

    DMarie1184

    [124]Dec 30, 2012
    • member since: 12/27/12
    • level: 1
    • rank: Weatherman
    • posts: 6

    allenleonardo wrote:
    If he had time to rule the kingdom for a long time than I could see him becoming that King of the Arthurian legends, but not after four years on the throne.


    Exactly! And why didn't we see the Golden Years? They weren't all that great if you ask me, especially with magic being banned and all.

    Speaking of magic being banned, what do you think Gwen did now that she knows about Merlin? I too thought it was rather quick that she came to the conclusion that he had magic when she didn't have much suspicion before (or at least not shown). I still think Merlin returned to Camelot and was given a higher position, like advisor or something, unless she lifted the magic ban and made him court sorcerer or something. But I wonder if she would? I could see her respecting Merlin for what he did, but telling him that it's too risky to let magic allowed again because of all the suffering it caused. I don't think she'd necessarily hunt people down and kill them for being sorcerers though.

    Ugh, I don't know...now I'm rambling. The writers left it so open ended that I can't figure out what would've happened. Obviously magic dies off because of that ridiculous truck scene they put in that essentially destroyed the whole "land of myth" thing for me. I don't think I'll ever get over that part.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of JJuna

    JJuna

    [125]Dec 30, 2012
    • member since: 06/17/11
    • level: 11
    • rank: Red Shirted Lt.
    • posts: 919

    DMarie1184 wrote:


    allenleonardo wrote:
    If he had time to rule the kingdom for a long time than I could see him becoming that King of the Arthurian legends, but not after four years on the throne.


    Exactly! And why didn't we see the Golden Years? They weren't all that great if you ask me, especially with magic being banned and all.


    Nope, I don't think it constitutes a Golden Age at all. Not only was magic still banned, but there was only peace because Morgana was imprisoned.

    DMarie1184 wrote:

    Speaking of magic being banned, what do you think Gwen did now that she knows about Merlin? I too thought it was rather quick that she came to the conclusion that he had magic when she didn't have much suspicion before (or at least not shown). I still think Merlin returned to Camelot and was given a higher position, like advisor or something, unless she lifted the magic ban and made him court sorcerer or something. But I wonder if she would? I could see her respecting Merlin for what he did, but telling him that it's too risky to let magic allowed again because of all the suffering it caused. I don't think she'd necessarily hunt people down and kill them for being sorcerers though.

    Ugh, I don't know...now I'm rambling. The writers left it so open ended that I can't figure out what would've happened. Obviously magic dies off because of that ridiculous truck scene they put in that essentially destroyed the whole "land of myth" thing for me. I don't think I'll ever get over that part.



    I'm not sure what Gwen would have done with regards to magic in general, but I don't think Merlin went back to Camelot. If he had, I think the writers would have shown us something of that importance. The implication is that he has been wandering alone, waiting for Arthur for 1500 years. I think Gaius also knew that if Arthur died, Merlin would not return. The poignancy of the final scene between them, the body language, the expressions all showed that. Even the line 'I'll have your favourite meal waiting for you', I took as a way of avoiding the painful truth.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of boom-moo

    boom-moo

    [126]Dec 31, 2012
    • member since: 02/05/07
    • level: 75
    • rank: Rowdy Roddy Piper
    • posts: 135,688
    JJuna wrote:

    DMarie1184 wrote:


    allenleonardo wrote:
    If he had time to rule the kingdom for a long time than I could see him becoming that King of the Arthurian legends, but not after four years on the throne.


    Exactly! And why didn't we see the Golden Years? They weren't all that great if you ask me, especially with magic being banned and all.


    Nope, I don't think it constitutes a Golden Age at all. Not only was magic still banned, but there was only peace because Morgana was imprisoned.

    That was one of those twists that turned up nothing like the legends.

    JJuna wrote:
    I don't think Merlin went back to Camelot. If he had, I think the writers would have shown us something of that importance. The implication is that he has been wandering alone, waiting for Arthur for 1500 years. I think Gaius also knew that if Arthur died, Merlin would not return. The poignancy of the final scene between them, the body language, the expressions all showed that. Even the line 'I'll have your favourite meal waiting for you', I took as a way of avoiding the painful truth.
    I think that he went back for practical reasons but that he avoided everyone (except maybe Gaius. He might have liked to give him a heads up or maybe he just left a note). I guess he packed a couple of things (nothing fancy: a sleeping roll, some food, Balinor's wooden dragon, a fresh shirt, maybe some money) and take a horse before going wherever he thought better. He left as he arrived: unnoticed.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of allenleonardo

    allenleonardo

    [127]Dec 31, 2012
    • member since: 11/04/12
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 54

    JJuna wrote:

    DMarie1184 wrote:

    Speaking of magic being banned, what do you think Gwen did now that she knows about Merlin? I too thought it was rather quick that she came to the conclusion that he had magic when she didn't have much suspicion before (or at least not shown). I still think Merlin returned to Camelot and was given a higher position, like advisor or something, unless she lifted the magic ban and made him court sorcerer or something. But I wonder if she would? I could see her respecting Merlin for what he did, but telling him that it's too risky to let magic allowed again because of all the suffering it caused. I don't think she'd necessarily hunt people down and kill them for being sorcerers though.

    Ugh, I don't know...now I'm rambling. The writers left it so open ended that I can't figure out what would've happened. Obviously magic dies off because of that ridiculous truck scene they put in that essentially destroyed the whole "land of myth" thing for me. I don't think I'll ever get over that part.



    I'm not sure what Gwen would have done with regards to magic in general, but I don't think Merlin went back to Camelot. If he had, I think the writers would have shown us something of that importance. The implication is that he has been wandering alone, waiting for Arthur for 1500 years. I think Gaius also knew that if Arthur died, Merlin would not return. The poignancy of the final scene between them, the body language, the expressions all showed that. Even the line 'I'll have your favourite meal waiting for you', I took as a way of avoiding the painful truth.



    And this is the problem xD we will forever wonder what happened after Arthurs death. Maybe the deleted scenes will bring some light into this.


    I also dont think that he stayed in Camelot. Maybe like boomoo wrote, that he took some things that he needs and said a final goodbye to Gaius. But I see it more like Jjuna does. The scene with the dinner looked to me more like an "sorry I wont come back". And why should Gaius even say that, if he was 100 % sure that Merlin will return. I also dont believe that magic was free under Gwen, because that would make her a legend and not Arthur (at least for the magic users). And after all that she suffered thanks to magic I cant see her accepting it just because Merlin is a good warlock. She lost her father thanks to a sorcerer, her brother and husband thanks to Morgana, the same with other friends and she was tortured with magic.



    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of PenguinSuzie

    PenguinSuzie

    [128]Dec 31, 2012
    • member since: 08/19/11
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 1,012

    I don't think Gwen should necessarily blame magic and nothing else for her father's death since it was the guards that killed him. I can certainly understand why she'd hate magic but she must be aware that not all magic users are pure evil, and she accepted Merlin quickly so while she probably didn't make magic illegal; I can't imagine her executing anyone for using it (unless it was to harm people) after the show finished.


    I don't think Merlin returned to Camelot, which is a very sad concept. I took what Gaius said as foreshadowing that he wouldn't go back.

    Edited on 12/31/2012 7:17am
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of trek

    trek

    [129]Dec 31, 2012
    • member since: 10/14/12
    • level: 3
    • rank: Soup Nazi
    • posts: 89


    PenguinSuzie wrote:

    I don't think Gwen should necessarily blame magic and nothing else for her father's death since it was the guards that killed him. I can certainly understand why she'd hate magic but she must be aware that not all magic users are pure evil, and she accepted Merlin quickly so while she probably didn't make magic illegal; I can't imagine her executing anyone for using it (unless it was to harm people) after the show finished.


    I don't think Merlin returned to Camelot, which is a very sad concept. I took what Gaius said as foreshadowing that he wouldn't go back.


    Merlin didn't seem to go back to Camelot but it quite possible that they left it like that to allow us to create our own ending, because for example Merlin might not have actually been there during the announcement of the king's death or something more complicated. Maybe there is more to the deleted scene where Percival finds Merlin at the lake - perhaps they have a conversation? We'll see.




    We again don't see what Gwen did about magic in Camelot so therefore I think that they have left it up to us, although the fact she knows and so does Gaius suggests that she becomes more sympathetic.


    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of PaperHeart

    PaperHeart

    [130]Dec 31, 2012
    • member since: 01/01/13
    • level: 1
    • rank: Weatherman
    • posts: 7

    Hi!


    Iv'e been here for ages, but never plucked up the courage to post - typically, I've decided to do so after the party is over


    Iv'e been watching Merlin since day 1, so thought I'd post some thoughts on the finale -


    I actually loved the way Mordred died - it was pretty shocking to see it happen so early, so it worked for me in that sense. Old Merlin on the cliff was awesome and how he walked through the battlefield of the fallen, searching for Arthur. On a random side note - was that actually Bradley that he picked up? I remember reading somewhere that a Gwen dummy was made for 5x09 and was wondering if that was the case there too.


    Magic Reveal - Been waiting for this for SO long now and it surpassed all expectations. I'll be forever grateful that they chose to base the entire final episode on this and the gradual acceptance of Merlin by Arthur. It was an unusually quiet finale, lots of heartfelt conversations that felt like they were directed at the long term fans who had invested into the main relationship between the two characters and could truly appreciate it.


    Yay for Merlin finally being able to use magic in front of Arthur and getting to show off quite a few of his neat tricks! It gave a bit of a glimpse of what it would have been like if we had a whole season of it.


    Morgana died too easily, but glad it was Merlin who did it and that he used Excalibur.


    The only time I got really teary was during Arthur's death as he said 'thankyou.' It really was the perfect two words to say.


    Great Dragon - not going to miss him. Everything he ever told Merlin was misleading and it made it seem as though he always knew it was Arthur's fate to die at Camlann, so why did he bother with all the prophecies of a Golden Age? Still makes me angry.


    The shot of Merlin sending Arthur off in the boat to Avalon was heartbreaking and beautiful. I always thought this show took the most breathtaking screenshots. It was up there with the burning boat of Freya on the lake. So gorgeous.


    Future Merlin - This was probably the most depressing scene of the entire episode. It didn't give me any hope that Arthur was ever going to return. What a terrible fate for poor Merlin.


    Oh well, it was still a beautiful send off to this show (minus the last 10 minutes) and I'm going to miss it a lot. At least we have the DVD extras to look forward to! Does anyone think they will have a commentary on the finale? I'd love one with Colin/ Bradley and maybe a director.


    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of allenleonardo

    allenleonardo

    [131]Jan 1, 2013
    • member since: 11/04/12
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 54

    A Happy new year everyone



    PaperHeart wrote:


    I actually loved the way Mordred died - it was pretty shocking to see it happen so early, so it worked for me in that sense. Old Merlin on the cliff was awesome and how he walked through the battlefield of the fallen, searching for Arthur. On a random side note - was that actually Bradley that he picked up? I remember reading somewhere that a Gwen dummy was made for 5x09 and was wondering if that was the case there too.


    I think it must have been a dummy. I dont think that he would be able to pick Bradley up with him wearing armour (and even without I cant see it) xD I was like ..O_O.. after Old Merlin picked up Arthur in his armour and walked away. Damn strong that old man. XD


    PaperHeart wrote:


    Magic Reveal - Been waiting for this for SO long now and it surpassed all expectations. I'll be forever grateful that they chose to base the entire final episode on this and the gradual acceptance of Merlin by Arthur. It was an unusually quiet finale, lots of heartfelt conversations that felt like they were directed at the long term fans who had invested into the main relationship between the two characters and could truly appreciate it.


    Yay for Merlin finally being able to use magic in front of Arthur and getting to show off quite a few of his neat tricks! It gave a bit of a glimpse of what it would have been like if we had a whole season of it.


    I agree this was a part of the episode that I liked =). I was curious how they will do the reveal in only one episode but they did well, even if I wish that both of them had a longer time with that knowledge. :/ I loved how he thanked him at the end and how Arthur realized what Merlin did for him all the years (at least part of what he did ).


    PaperHeart wrote:


    Great Dragon - not going to miss him. Everything he ever told Merlin was misleading and it made it seem as though he always knew it was Arthur's fate to die at Camlann, so why did he bother with all the prophecies of a Golden Age? Still makes me angry.


    True. I wanted to shake him after he said to Merlin that he got everything he dreamed of..I was angry with him most of this season..he was the one responsible to look after Aithusa. And I also didnt like that the writers desided that he was suddenly so old. I dont think that someone who can live over a thousand years feels the age in such a short time. He looked fine at the beginning of the season. If Merlin saw him again after 5-10 years than I could believe that he looked ill/old but not in such a short time span.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of PenguinSuzie

    PenguinSuzie

    [132]Jan 1, 2013
    • member since: 08/19/11
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 1,012

    @PaperHeart Hi


    I think maybe because it was the first time this season that Merlin had seen him in the sun (when he saved him from the roof). Also that he may have been losing a lot of his strength when using magic to heal Merlin. I don't think he intended for it to go this way the whole time, maybe as one of the possible and more positive endings (as it could have always been worse for the characters, at least he seems to be under the impression that he'll come back). Though it's an ending less than they'd hoped for. I think he just wanted Merlin to understand that it wasn't all hopeless and that he could still fulfill his destiny.


    Maybe I should blame him more for Aithusa, but I just feel to bad for him.

    Edited on 01/01/2013 5:04am
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of boom-moo

    boom-moo

    [133]Jan 1, 2013
    • member since: 02/05/07
    • level: 75
    • rank: Rowdy Roddy Piper
    • posts: 135,688
    PaperHeart wrote:

    On a random side note - was that actually Bradley that he picked up? I remember reading somewhere that a Gwen dummy was made for 5x09 and was wondering if that was the case there too.



    allenleonardo wrote:

    I think it must have been a dummy. I dont think that he would be able to pick Bradley up with him wearing armour (and even without I cant see it) xD I was like ..O_O.. after Old Merlin picked up Arthur in his armour and walked away. Damn strong that old man. XD



    I don't think it was a dummy. If you watch the scene in slow-mo it is pretty clear to me that it is Bradley himself: the veins in his neck, the blood stain right by his left sideburn, the haircut, etc. Maybe magic gives Old Merlin some strength too.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of PenguinSuzie

    PenguinSuzie

    [134]Jan 1, 2013
    • member since: 08/19/11
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 1,012
    I assume he can boost his strength with magic. At least now that he has much better control and access to it.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of PaperHeart

    PaperHeart

    [135]Jan 1, 2013
    • member since: 01/01/13
    • level: 1
    • rank: Weatherman
    • posts: 7

    [/QUOTE] I don't think it was a dummy. If you watch the scene in slow-mo it is pretty clear to me that it is Bradley himself: the veins in his neck, the blood stain right by his left sideburn, the haircut, etc. Maybe magic gives Old Merlin some strength too.[/QUOTE]


    You're right, if it was a dummy there is certainly a lot of attention to detail! Oh, and I wasn't doubting Old Merlin's strength in picking up Arthur, just Colin Morgan's.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of PenguinSuzie

    PenguinSuzie

    [136]Jan 1, 2013
    • member since: 08/19/11
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 1,012

    PaperHeart wrote:
    Oh, and I wasn't doubting Old Merlin's strength in picking up Arthur, just Colin Morgan's.
    I'm curious how they did that.

    Edited on 01/01/2013 2:10pm
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of boom-moo

    boom-moo

    [137]Jan 1, 2013
    • member since: 02/05/07
    • level: 75
    • rank: Rowdy Roddy Piper
    • posts: 135,688
    PaperHeart wrote:

    You're right, if it was a dummy there is certainly a lot of attention to detail!

    Exactly
    PenguinSuzie wrote:

    PaperHeart wrote:
    Oh, and I wasn't doubting Old Merlin's strength in picking up Arthur, just Colin Morgan's.
    I'm curious how they did that.

    Well the armour is plastic and the chainmail is made out of aluminum so both are way lighter than they should have been. Colin is thin but not weak so I guess that he managed alright, if you look closely the scene was cut so he didn't have to lift Arthur off the ground.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of PenguinSuzie

    PenguinSuzie

    [138]Jan 1, 2013
    • member since: 08/19/11
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 1,012
    He was still carrying him though wasn't he?
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of allenleonardo

    allenleonardo

    [139]Jan 1, 2013
    • member since: 11/04/12
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 54

    PaperHeart wrote:


    Oh, and I wasn't doubting Old Merlin's strength in picking up Arthur, just Colin Morgan's.


    And thats why I thought that it must have been a dummy. Not because of Merlin (he was able to carry Gwen. I found it just funny that such a old man could pick someone up xD) but of Colin. He may not be weak, but Bradley still looks more bigger and heavier than him I just cant see Colin carrying him around. Maybe they used a dummy as the body and added Bradleys head per pc on it Or its not Colin playing Old Merlin in that shot xDD. (Or its really both of them ;D)


    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of boom-moo

    boom-moo

    [140]Jan 1, 2013
    • member since: 02/05/07
    • level: 75
    • rank: Rowdy Roddy Piper
    • posts: 135,688
    PenguinSuzie wrote:
    He was still carrying him though wasn't he?
    Yes, I think he was. At the beginning of the scene you can see Merlin putting Arthur's arm around his neck and pushing him up, sitting him down on the ground. In the next take he is already carrying him and stepping over a dead body. He doesn't lift him off the ground, which is what would have been harder to, Colin only takes like 4 or 5 steps on camera carrying Arthur and I guess that he can manage that . In that rather close-up take, I think it's definitely Bradley in Merlin's arms because of all the details I mentioned before. Now, at the very end of the scene whe they are shown from behind and pretty far away, that could perfectly be a dummy and maybe not even Colin either.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.