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BBC (ended 2012)

Episode discussion - 3x13 'The Coming Of Arthur Part 2'

  • Avatar of boom-moo

    boom-moo

    [81]Dec 4, 2010
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    I think that is kind of similar to when she blew that man away, angry and uncontrolled magic. But vanishing into thin air sounds like more controlled magic to me.
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    dpebbleson

    [82]Dec 4, 2010
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    boom-moo wrote:
    I´m going to rewatch the episode, because I didn´t get the boots-scene at the end given that I´m not a native speaker, so I´m trying to watch it a second time with your opinion in mind



    Honestly I didn't get what Arthur was saying in that scene as well. I inferred it was about Merlin cleaning his boots, but words are mostly unintelligible to me.


    Edit: Also, did Gaius say about M&M: they're gone far now, or, the opposite, they couldn't have gotten too far now. The first one seems likely, and in that manner said, it gives hope Morgause is alive.


    She just has to be alive!!!

    Edited on 12/04/2010 4:09pm
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    ACDiNosey

    [83]Dec 4, 2010
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    There you go Danko

    Merlin: Have you seen the state of these boots?
    Arthur: Yeah... Well go and get something to clean them.
    Merlin: Why? They're YOUR boots.
    Arthur: Have you lost your mind?
    Merlin: I thought you believe in equality...
    Arthur: I'm sorry?
    Merlin: At the Round Table you said...
    Arthur: Shut up Merlin... *smiles and nudges Merlin's arm*
    Then they get on to talk about Morgana and Uther and Merlin says wise things again.
    I thought it was great to see Merlin being a bit more assertive... A normal servant would certainly never get away with that!
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    dpebbleson

    [84]Dec 4, 2010
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    ACDiNosey wrote:
    There you go Danko

    Merlin: Have you seen the state of these boots?
    Arthur: Yeah... Well go and get something to clean them.
    Merlin: Why? They're YOUR boots.
    Arthur: Have you lost your mind?
    Merlin: I thought you believe in equality...
    Arthur: I'm sorry?
    Merlin: At the Round Table you said...
    Arthur: Shut up Merlin... *smiles and nudges Merlin's arm*
    Then they get on to talk about Morgana and Uther and Merlin says wise things again.
    I thought it was great to see Merlin being a bit more assertive... A normal servant would certainly never get away with that!


    Thanks very much, AC! : ) And just one more favour please: what does Gaius say about the M&M sisters being far away (or the opposite)? It's just before he congratulates Merlin on good job.

    My hearing is somewhat bad, but my English comprehension skills have certainly fallen low this evening (due to the lack of Morgana's influence I'm sure).
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  • Avatar of ACDiNosey

    ACDiNosey

    [85]Dec 4, 2010
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    Your wish is my command, my Lord


    Gaius: And they've searched through the remains of the rubble and still no Morgana?


    Merlin: ...or Morgause...


    Gaius: They won't have gone far.


    That's it, then it's the well-done speech...



    Edited on 12/04/2010 4:26pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of dpebbleson

    dpebbleson

    [86]Dec 4, 2010
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    Thank you very much, my Lady! As always, I'm indebted to you
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    ACDiNosey

    [87]Dec 4, 2010
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    Oh, no, I do not seek any reward I'm rewatching the scene with sulky!Arthur and Merlin in the cave (with the rat). It's one of my favourites. I like the fact that Arthur doesn't shout at Merlin when he asks to be left alone, and I like the parallel between Merlin telling Arthur that now's not the moment to be miserable about his father's and Morgana's betrayal, and the bit later on where Arthur says the exact same thing to his father... He's using Merlin's pearls of wisdom
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    dpebbleson

    [88]Dec 4, 2010
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    ACDiNosey wrote:
    Oh, no, I do not seek any reward I'm rewatching the scene with sulky!Arthur and Merlin in the cave (with the rat). It's one of my favourites. I like the fact that Arthur doesn't shout at Merlin when he asks to be left alone, and I like the parallel between Merlin telling Arthur that now's not the moment to be miserable about his father's and Morgana's betrayal, and the bit later on where Arthur says the exact same thing to his father... He's using Merlin's pearls of wisdom


    Indeed it's a good scene. I also like the one when Arthur says Merlin is wise, and Merlin replies 'Nahhh' and Arthur follows with the same 'Naahh', it's just so well-acted.
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    ACDiNosey

    [89]Dec 4, 2010
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    Yes, I agree, the "nah" scene is really good. I actually thought Bradley did an amazing job at being upset in the rat scene.

    And with reference to your post and my previous ones what I meant when I said earlier that this episode showed how much more balanced their relationship is.
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    dpebbleson

    [90]Dec 4, 2010
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    ACDiNosey wrote:
    Yes, I agree, the "nah" scene is really good. I actually thought Bradley did an amazing job at being upset in the rat scene.

    And with reference to your post and my previous ones what I meant when I said earlier that this episode showed how much more balanced their relationship is.


    Yeah, they're almost on equal terms, and the whole master-servant relationship is more like having fun with it.

    I'm still very sad about Morgana...
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    boom-moo

    [91]Dec 4, 2010
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    ACDiNosey wrote:
    this episode showed how much more balanced their relationship is.


    dpebbleson wrote:
    Yeah, they're almost on equal terms, and the whole master-servant relationship is more like having fun with it.


    I agree. I would have loved for Merlin to elaborate on why Arthur can't know about his magic yet. I was so excited when Lancelot brought about the topic. Oh well.
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    ACDiNosey

    [92]Dec 4, 2010
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    dpebbleson wrote:

    I'm still very sad about Morgana...


    I almost felt sorry for her at the end, which is saying a lot considering my thoughts about the character altogether. But I must admit I was absolutely heartbroken by Uther.
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    Asesia

    [93]Dec 4, 2010
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    I can't even deal with how amazing this episode was. - Morgana's screams and heartbrake at the end just tore me apart ;(. I will never be able to hate morgana. I just want to give her a hug. But I think her killing the innocent was just.. wow . Really shows the change. I honestly cannot wait to see how they show her character next year.


    -Uther, another character I just can't hate. He was completely and utterly broken. It will be very interesting to see how this is handled next season.


    -I love Morgause but I really hope she is dead. I need morgana to come into her own.


    -Loved the Arthur/merlin interaction -Not to much freya though .


    -Round table/Excalibur/Lady of the lake/Lancelot YAY!


    -Interesting to see how much screen time the knights get next season. i could go on but I wont. Just bring on season 4!!

    Edited on 12/04/2010 5:03pm
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    ACDiNosey

    [94]Dec 4, 2010
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    I'm thinking again to the Merlin/Lancelot conversation about the timing for the reveal... I'm starting to wonder whether the "not yet" argument is starting to be more about Merlin than Arthur, i.e. that Merlin is now so deep in it that he can't really see a suitable time for the reveal to take place.
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    boom-moo

    [95]Dec 4, 2010
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    Well, I don't think it was the best of moments. The whole situation was enough of a burden and a distress for everyone, especially Arthur.
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    leapinglucas

    [96]Dec 4, 2010
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    Hey there, how are you all? I didn't really want to post in previous weeks, because I was avoiding spoilers and unfortunately, really wasn't enjoying the show. But this ep was much better, even though I think it was terribly rushed, so here goes:



    Whoah show! Did you have a bus to catch or what? 

So many awesome things, so little time. Wham, bam -- thank you Mam! 

We could have spent at least half a season on the events of this episode. Turfed the goblins and fart jokes, the frog-swallowing princesses and the Quests to nowhere -- the touching character journeys for guest stars never to be seen again. Imagine it -- half a series or more of Arthur, Merlin and the resistance. Half a season of reconnaissance missions to the castle. Half a season of the knights getting to know each other, each other's strengths and foibles. Half a season of the light bouncing off Percival's biceps (Percival is kinda like a cute Popeye, but I feel sorry that his character journey from stranger to knight was allotted perhaps 34 seconds.) Half a season of Gwaine and his awesome one-liners: "That's SIR Gwaine to you!"


    I would have in fact devoted an entire season to finding better lodgings -- discovering the old castle. I would have devoted more time to Arthur discovering the old, round table and formulating a plan to give his men equality. But the whole concept of Arthur articulating some forefathers' ideas about the significance of the Round Table was given maybe -- 21 seconds.

I thought Gwen was an absolute STAR in this episode. Loved her going toe to toe with Morgana, using her (for once, not coincidental, created on-the-spur-of-the-moment) skills in using a forge to make the duplicate key. Loved her formulating the plan and suggesting she speak to Leon. I was really frightened for her and enjoying my involvement with the Hero!Gwen plotline. At last she was being given something to do that didn't involve giving Arthur the "I can see the King you will become and I'm proud of you" speech with the swirly music. Vomit! Then all of a sudden the game is up in like… 3 seconds. when we see Morgana and Morgause have overheard Gwen's whole plan. So much for the exciting prospect of Gwen as the sleeper spy in Camelot, but I did love the brief buddy moments with Gwen and Leon and the dress. At least that was organic comedy. And may I say that once again, Leon shone in his solo scenes and in the episode opener. Boy can carry a moment on his own, no problem!


    Once Morgana was planning to erect a gallows in the courtyard and start executing townsfolk, I thought I saw a moments' distaste on Morgause's face. Had Morgana's bitter lust for revenge even gone too far for the beautiful Morgause? What a fabulous direction -- Morgana and Morgause at odds over how to gain control of the kingdom. But nah -- that was over in about half a second too.


    While I did think Katie was at her evil best -- deliciously bitter with Uther, hurling his hypocrisy back at him with genuine hatred, I still do not GET her character AT ALL. She is just a twisted, spoiled little malcontent. Really, how long has she spent "alone and afraid". WTF? She has lived the vast portion of her life in indulged luxury, loved and adored and supported by all who knew her. Sure, Merlin didn't fees up his secret, but that was HIS secret to keep or share, not hers. She had plenty of opportunities to get help, but she preferred to wallow in her own bitterness. Who was that character in the first season -- who would bravely stand up for innocents and put her life on the line for justice? What happened to her? A year away in a cave in the forest sulking just does not cut it. As a villain, I have zero interest in her, so that does not bode well for things to come.


    On the other hand, ASH was again BRILLIANT in selling Uther's sickened bewilderment. He absolutely could not see the parallels between Morgana's vengeance and his own. He sees his crusade as a righteous necessity and cannot fathom that he has been killing innocent people the way Morgana has. Only his subconscious seems to keep a tally of his murders. A sad, broken man. Let's hope there is an epiphany in his future.


    And while we're talking about sulking -- AHA! They did exactly as I suspected. Avoided the revelation scene altogether and left the characters for a week since last week's cliffhanger to process in private. I very much expected we would see Arthur, catatonic in some corner refusing to eat and that is EXACTLY what we got. Granted, Merlin gave him a lovely little speech about how Camelot needs him, but they have pretty much settled into this rut where Merlin suffers in silence and Arthur just insults him all the time. I know it's meant to be sort of affectionate, but I find I am just really OVER it. Arthur had glimpses of greatness in this episode -- a smile here, a 5 second speech there -- but mostly he's been well and truly left behind as a character. And urgh, Merlin channeling The Powers That Be... "Arthur's not ready yet!"



    There were things that touched me quite unexpectedly, however.


    The vision of Freya in the water. Awww -- she's so sweet and Merlin loved her unconditionally. The look on his face. I really felt all verklempt. Ah Colin, you had me at.... Then I looked at the counter and couldn't believe that there were only 25 mins to go and we still had to get to Excalibur, the knights, the round table --- sheesh!


    The Dragon: "Merlin, I am not a horse!" Ha! Put the sword "where none can find it." Mmmm, final scene right there, methinks.


    Merlin had a great hack and slash with Excalibur. Loved the look on his face when he saw it annihilate the first Bloodguard knight. It was like, "yeah, eat THAT, immortal dude!" Merlin does have a violent streak. And during the 41 second Round Table scene, I did adore the proud, awed look on Merlin's face as Arthur gave his speech. What a shame Merlin has new Besties now and Arthur is going off to be Gwen's


    There was a general camera sweep across all the newly-minted knights again (blink, light bouncing off Sir Percival's biceps again) and it occurred to me that they have done a great job casting this series. From Elyan to Popeye, I loved every one of 'em and their little maiden speeches. What a shame they get barely seconds of screen time before they are officially Knights of the official Round Table. I can see the bus approaching -- only minutes to go now.


    Argh! Gwen/Arthur I-can-see-the-king-you-will-become-I'm-so-proud-of-you- cakes! The swelling music!!! Arghhhhh -- kill me now.

 Fighting -- action -- unlikely, ill-though-out, rather pedestrian battle sequence against immortal army (well, when I say Army, I mean some French extras in red and black tabbards). Er, how did they get into the castle again?


    And yay, Gauis vs Morgause (like some Playstation game). It's the old Wall-Hurling trick (Hold down Cross and press Circle twice).

Poor old Merlin, saves the day and doesn't get any credit… AGAIN! I KNOW I am going to get really tired of that schtick and you just KNOW that are gonna keep on milking it where Arthur is concerned.


    Whoops, here's that bus. Gotta go….

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  • Avatar of Tankim

    Tankim

    [97]Dec 4, 2010
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    Asesia wrote:



    -Uther, another character I just can't hate. He was completely and utterly broken. It will be very interesting to see how this is handled next season.





    Hello -



    Yes, I am totally interested in it too but I suppose they won't show it very deep or detailed, maybe it will be mentioned just casually.


    Uther's character has so much potential, yet there is not enough of him in the show. I know it is about Merlin and Arthur but I think Uther needs more screentime.


    Same in this episode, which was awesome but also a little disappointing at the same time. I would have loved to see scenes between Arthur and Morgana, more interaction between Uther and Morgana, more Arthur and Uther. It was all too fast and too much, a bit like an MTV clip because they brought so much into this one episode at once. The Round Table, the knights, conquering back Camelot, Excalibur, Freya, Uther being held prisoner... it should have been a three parter at least.


    More about Morgana's reign, Arthur's desperation and maybe anger and Uther's time in prison - he is the king and has lost almost everything he has ever fought for, his whole life falls apart. This should have been worth more than just three or four small scenes. Same with Arthur who now knows about Morgana being his half sister. It would have been good if Uther had shown a little worry about his son. He didn't know if he was safe or even alive and then Arthur suddenly enters the cell, alive and obviously well. No reaction.


    Entering Camelot was a bit too easy, I think. As I said, it all happened too fast, so there was no time for deeper emotions (Merlin - Freya, Arthur - Morgana, Lancelot- Gwen, Morgana - Uther, for example) or for bigger plans.


    Anyway, the episode was great, very tenseful and interesting but I would have wished for a three parter to explore some things that I feel are important for such a plot.

    Edited on 12/05/2010 2:20am
    Edited 2 total times.
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    ericsprau

    [98]Dec 4, 2010
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    Just watched. Notes:

    WOW. Morgana killing innocents. Even THAT shocks me.

    Lancelot? Late? NEVER. lol

    OMG! FREYA!! Woot.

    NICE MOVE MERLIN!

    Aaaaand that must be Lancelot with the rocks. Oh and he brought Percival, another of the Knights of the Round! TPTB are introducing more and more of them this season.

    A round table. That's a surprise. NOT. What's next, is Arthur gonna knight them?

    "No I don't really fancy it." ROFL. I love Merthur banter.

    Did I call that or did I call that? New knights for Camelot.

    Oh Gaius. You remember the bumbling idiot? Merlin still is bumbling sometimes! Though not an idiot at least. Just horribly reckless.

    Oh crap! Go for the cup Gwaine! Whack it with your sword! Throw something at it! Just knock it over for God's sake!

    The cup!! OH NOES! MORGAUSE! D-E-N-I-E-D.

    OH SNAP! GAIUS! AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH! AWESOME!

    I have a feeling Morgana is gonna be our new uber-villain. I mean, whoa. Look at what she did.

    The sword in the stone. Talk about building the story arc for the next two seasons. (End of notes.)

    I figured you guys would like the Leon cross-dress. Too bad they didn't actually SHOW him in the dress. Boo for no preview of next season yet.

    Well, I suppose we shall soon begin our work on completing the 'Pedia up to the end of this season, as well as the re-watching? I'm gonna watch it again though.
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    blackphonix

    [99]Dec 4, 2010
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    Great episode, the Merlin/Arthur interactions were really well done. It's nice to see that the writers are moving it forward a little and the 'wise' scene was a cute shout out to the series premiere. But it was heart wrenching to see Morgana lose control like that. I felt really sorry for her, even after she killed all those innocent civilians. It made me wonder though; Merlin is supposed to be more powerful than Morgana right? So if Morgana losing control of her emotions causes that much property damage, would the entire city of Camelot be a write off if Merlin encountered the same situation?
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    roswellnm1947

    [100]Dec 4, 2010
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    I agree with the others about the A/M interactions (but I actually liked 3x12 better on this point), but not enough time as usual, with a lot of unanswered questions, for example, why didn't Arthur wonder why the immortal army just disappeared and who saved the day -- Merlin could have gotten credit for just dumping the Cup without magic which is what he did? Episode 3x13 was somewhat predictable: as many of us had said, we expected the water of Avalon to free Freya, thought Gaius would advise on how the immortal army was defeated last time, and predicted the knights to regroup in a ruined castle with the Round Table. However, there were surprises: I thought, for example, Arthur not Merlin would use Excalibur to fight the immortal army.

    Yes, Arthur said Merlin was "wise", had a good scene with Merlin with the rat stew, assumed Merlin would be on his team at the Round Table, and elbowed Merlin at the end in the "boots" scene (reminded me of the last time Merlin saw and lost Freya when he gave Merlin a headlock and some "noogies"). Still, I think the A/M relationship is the basis of this show and needs more attention as many of those in this forum have said (hope the s4 writers are reading this!). What can we expect for s4? We saw Gwen and Arthur moving forward toward a royal marriage, Lancelot and Gwen still eyeing each other (which as we all know is not good for Arthur -- although this is a "family" show), Merlin getting closer to revealing himself to Arthur (with them becoming more equal at the moment), and Morgana and Morgause still at large to wreak more havoc. I'm still left with the question to which you may know the answer -- does Arthur deserve such a good friend as Merlin, who never gives up on trying to help Arthur no matter what the cost? Put another way, Merlin defeats an immortal army, gets Uther and the people of Camelot freed, reunites Gwen and Arthur, and defeats M/M, and all he gets is an elbow and a smile from Arthur and a "well done" from Gaius? We'll see how well Merlin is treated in s4! LOL.
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