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BBC (ended 2012)

Episode discussion - 3x13 'The Coming Of Arthur Part 2'

  • Avatar of Drakeseder

    Drakeseder

    [101]Dec 4, 2010
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    This show has been going in a downward slope this entire season, and this last episode was a good example of it. Morgana has to be one of the worst developed villains I have had the privilege of being witness too. You`re telling me the girl that used to be unable to watch knights be hurt in duels has now openly slaughtered innocent civilians? One year with Morgause turned her into a ruthless and remorseless person that kills without a second thought? We're supposed to believe a few weeks/months of loneliness and self loathing turned this woman who has been taught her entire life to be humane into what we saw this season? I can understand the ruthless need to kill Uther, he deserved it, but everyone else? Why? Oh wait, the writers for this show did what they always do with questions like this, they avoided them. Merlin asks why she's doing it and Morgana tells him to "shut up". Uther asks the same in this episode and her retort was sound in how Uther had no right to question her methods, but how can she live with herself or feel no remorse for the things she has done? Uther lost his wife to magic and couldn't blame himself for being the cause, so he blamed magic and took out his rage on magic (actually well developed), but Morgana? Self loathing and loneliness for a few weeks, really?! They didn't even show a hint of regret or reluctance for her attempts to kill Arthur for the entire season, her half-brother and a person that has always been very good to her.



    Morgana had so much potential to be a great villain if they actually spent the time to develop her and realize that villains don't need to just be evil, they can have depth to their character. Her emotional connection to Merlin was lacking to be honest, they were never the greatest of friends, especially in comparison to her relationship with Gwen and Arthur, which makes her being the main villain even worse. They had a chance to develop a deeper connection in the second season, but they rushed the plot like they have been doing since season one. I was hoping this final episode would develop plot threads that could show hope for the next season, but that obviously isn't happening. Why not have Morgana see Merlin toss her sister across the room rather than just running into the room after everything happens? Now we basically end this season the same as last, Morgana has disappeared and the king is mentally damaged. Could you imagine the betrayal she'd feel after finding out that she was never alone with her magical abilities and the one person that apparently wanted to help her was the one that could have ended her loneliness? Why not ever develop the guilt Merlin should feel for Morgana betraying everyone? Her supposed (poorly done) reasoning was loneliness and self-loathing, but Merlin could have taught her magic is actually good and that she doesn't have to hate herself, and that she wasn't alone. Instead we get Merlin acting righteous and agreeing with the dragon about Morgana, even though he was selfish and didn't try to help her when he had the chance because he wanted to keep his secret. He even had an opportunity at the beginning of this season to help her turn back to their side, but again he kept his secret because he was worried about himself. How about showing in the finale that Morgana still had some good in her and there was a chance at redemption in some capacity? She's just become a generic villain that had tons of potential with all her emotional connections to characters and the connection to the audience, but the writers completely failed in utilizing it properly.


    Then there's Merlin and his secret that not even the villains are allowed to know about apparently. We'll get another season of Merlin hiding behind corners with his entire face sticking out and eyes glowing, then acting like he did nothing. There's also the good old 20 people in the room fighting and Merlin somehow getting away with using magic. The writers need to stop using his secret as a plot device, it's no longer "I hope Merlin doesn't get found out", but "I want Merlin to be caught". It's time a reoccurring character found out about his abilities other than Gaius. Lets not even discuss the MASSIVE plot hole of Gaius sneaking into the castle and appearing from behind the pillar in a room that was supposedly guarded by ten immortal warriors.

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    fenerliyim

    [102]Dec 4, 2010
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    I agree, 40 minutes is just not enough. If this show were done by HBO I think it would take it to the next level. Can't wait for the Game of Throwns show to start.

    The fighting scenes were just horrible imo, its the same moves over and over. And how Merlin is able to fight against trained guards is beyond me, i mean hes not the strongest of fellas or have any bit of training.

    Also the fact that the living dead blow up like balloons was a bit ridiculous. And was Merlin not able to use magic to push the cup over, woulda saved Lance the trouble of fighting. Or use a spell to immobilize the fighters and then kill them one by one with the sword.

    And last but not least is there no other spell but throwing someone, honestly its like the only thing they use in a fight scene. Starting to feel like Star Wars.

    Despite all this i still love the show, all the characters they've picked are perfect for their roles, and i hate having to wait till next fall to watch. And worst of all its only gonna be 10 episodes from what i've read so they are going to rush things even more.

    I just hope we stop seeing that stupid morgana smirk every time she thinks of something evil. That was just horrible writing/acting.
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  • Avatar of Drakeseder

    Drakeseder

    [103]Dec 4, 2010
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    fenerliyim wrote:
    I agree, 40 minutes is just not enough. If this show were done by HBO I think it would take it to the next level. Can't wait for the Game of Throwns show to start. The fighting scenes were just horrible imo, its the same moves over and over. And how Merlin is able to fight against trained guards is beyond me, i mean hes not the strongest of fellas or have any bit of training. Also the fact that the living dead blow up like balloons was a bit ridiculous. And was Merlin not able to use magic to push the cup over, woulda saved Lance the trouble of fighting. Or use a spell to immobilize the fighters and then kill them one by one with the sword. And last but not least is there no other spell but throwing someone, honestly its like the only thing they use in a fight scene. Starting to feel like Star Wars. Despite all this i still love the show, all the characters they've picked are perfect for their roles, and i hate having to wait till next fall to watch. And worst of all its only gonna be 10 episodes from what i've read so they are going to rush things even more. I just hope we stop seeing that stupid morgana smirk every time she thinks of something evil. That was just horrible writing/acting.



    HBO does have some fantastic shows, but they have the writers to pull it off and the lack of time isn't an excuse. Especially because they continue to add pointless episode about trolls, goblins or any other humorous topic they can think of. Look at the Sopranos, amazing show, one of the best ever and it had very small seasons and huge breaks in-between them at times, but the writing and acting was top notch. The great shows like LOST and the Sopranos put the most importance on character development, that's where people are going to fall in love with the show, through the characters and how they progress based on the plot. Merlin is a show that's just too redundant at this point and the writers spent more time trying to rush the story rather than take their time and develop the characters. The only character in my opinion that is developed well is Arthur, he's changed from the arrogant and conceited prince we saw in the first season, but everyone else has either been static or poorly developed. Listening to Gaius attempt to suggest that Merlin has changed so much from the clumsy guy that walked into his home the first season was annoying. How has he changed? He was always the selfless (sometimes), heroic, clumsy, and brave character that we've seen from season one.


    I agree with the rest of your points and I wanted to discuss those too, but I already typed way too much. Why not just give the sword to Lancelot? Merlin was going to let Arthur use it in the first season and he could always just take it back after Lancelot used it this time. Watching his fight scenes was humorous and aggravating because he didn't attempt to use his magic once when it obviously gives him a massive advantage in combat. He doesn't even need to do incantations for many of the things he does, so it's not going to affect his ability to defend himself. I enjoyed this show immensely during the first season, but I'm not excited for another season after the past two seasons of disappointment.

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  • Avatar of zeencat

    zeencat

    [104]Dec 5, 2010
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    Why on earth would they give the sword to Lancelot. The Great Dragon said it was for Arthur to weld only. In any other's hands it would be used for evil. Like the Lord of the Rings. Besides there is no mention in the Legends involving Lancelot and the Excalibar.

    I don't think this version of Merlin would of worked with any other corporation making it. The BBC makes fantastic family entertainment. That is watched years after it's made. Take Only Fools and Horses or Faulty Towers.
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    illegalferret

    [105]Dec 5, 2010
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    Sorry for the late review i was out last night and if parts of this don't make sense, um blame the cider!


    Loved:


    Leon being all noble and loyal smiling in the face of death because he knows he's doing the right thing.


    All the banter between Merlin and Arthur, well in fact their relationship in general.


    The round table and the knighting of the Knights. Arthur's little speech about the round table and the fact he had Merlin on his right hand side! The scene when the all said they'd go with apart from Merlin was really funny!


    Gwaine was brilliantly funny through out and it was nice to see the return of Lancelot being all serious and proper as per usual!


    Merlin's scene with Freya was beautifully done and quite moving! Liked how all he had to do to find out about the water was break the glass! The Fisher King knew Merlin well!


    Broken Uther was brilliantly done!


    Less Keen on:


    The ending felt very rushed, i think they could have done with an hour instead of the normal 45 minutes.


    Percivil didn't seem to have a point, sorry but he wasn't really that important to the story.


    That despite all the pictures of Arthur with Excalibur he never got his hands on it! And nobody noticed that Merlin was suddenly carrying around a really posh sword!


    Overall it's set us up nicely for series 4! I'm sticking by my theory that Arthur will probably have to pull Excalibur out the stone to prove that he rather than Morgana is the rightful ruler. So i enjoyed it a good end to a good series, it's such a shame with got to wait like 9 months for next episode

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  • Avatar of Drakeseder

    Drakeseder

    [106]Dec 5, 2010
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    zeencat wrote:
    Why on earth would they give the sword to Lancelot. The Great Dragon said it was for Arthur to weld only. In any other's hands it would be used for evil. Like the Lord of the Rings. Besides there is no mention in the Legends involving Lancelot and the Excalibar. I don't think this version of Merlin would of worked with any other corporation making it. The BBC makes fantastic family entertainment. That is watched years after it's made. Take Only Fools and Horses or Faulty Towers.



    The "Great Dragon" should have added that it was made for Merlin and Uther too, since they used it perfectly fine. I mean Merlin has never shown an aptitude for using the sword or any weapon other than magic, which made the final scenes all the more ridiculous with him doing two moves against supposedly trained swordsmen that then "blew up" into horribly animated parts. No, it's nothing "like the Lord of the Rings" and this show should never be compared to Lord of the Rings in any capacity.The writers take plenty of liberties with the story and don't follow the lore of King Arthur word for word, why not this time?



    This show isn't "fantastic" in any shape or form. I don't watch any other shows they have produced except for Top Gear, which is fantastic. This version of Merlin really isn't that good, so I wouldn't mind if someone else took the reigns. Had tons of potential, but I pointed out why I think that was "wasted" in my other posts.

    Edited on 12/05/2010 3:23am
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  • Avatar of illegalferret

    illegalferret

    [107]Dec 5, 2010
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    Merlin's sword waving skills have improved over the series and armed with Excalibur all he had to hit the solider they'd go so there was no real need for him to be an expect! The dragon trusts Merlin to use Excalibur and put it back somewhere safe I mean after all Merlin did help make it!


    I personally am with Zeen the BBC makes fantastic stuff and Merlin is definitely a fantastic piece of teatime family entertainment! Last night's episode had everything drama, comedy, romance and a good story line!

    Edited on 12/05/2010 3:49am
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  • Avatar of Drakeseder

    Drakeseder

    [108]Dec 5, 2010
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    illegalferret wrote:


    Merlin's sword waving skills have improved over the series and armed with Excalibur all he had to hit the solider they'd go so there was no real need for him to be an expect!


    I personally am with Zeen the BBC makes fantastic stuff and Merlin isdefinitely a fantastic piece of teatime family entertainment! Last night's episode had everything drama, comedy, romance and a good story line!




    Why? When did he train? Yes, there's every need for him to be an expert, the entire reason you train with a sword is so you don't get hit in any capacity. It's life or death for someone in that situation and taking a hit anywhere could lead to you having a disadvantage in continuing the fight.


    Yes, you could put any show in a good light if you wanted to look at it that way. A good show depends on how well those elements are used, not just if they are added to it.

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    boom-moo

    [109]Dec 5, 2010
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    roswellnm1947 wrote:
    Why didn't Arthur wonder why the immortal army just disappeared and who saved the day -- Merlin could have gotten credit for just dumping the Cup without magic which is what he did?
    The way they dumb up Arthur everytime it pleases TPTB is simply painful. And not just Arthur, no one of the knights wondered either how come the bloodguards vanished into thin air just like that.

    fenerliyim wrote:
    And how Merlin is able to fight against trained guards is beyond me, i mean hes not the strongest of fellas or have any bit of training
    I agree, I don't think Merlin stands much of a chance against a trained swordsman. I don't think Excalibur does all the work, Uther had to fight and fight hard to defeat the Black Knight.
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    illegalferret

    [110]Dec 5, 2010
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    Drakeseder wrote:


    Why? When did he train? Yes, there's every need for him to be an expert, the entire reason you train with a sword is so you don't get hit in any capacity. It's life or death for someone in that situation and taking a hit anywhere could lead to you having a disadvantage in continuing the fight.


    We've seen him watching Arthur train and Arthur's been giving him advice on what to do in fight (see 3x11). So i assume he's picked up some tips along the way! For that immortal army on hit from Excalibur caused them a serious disadvantage


    Drakeseder wrote:
    Yes, you could put any show in a good light if you wanted to look at it that way. A good show depends on how well those elements are used, not just if they are added to it.



    I think we may have to agree to disagree! I love Merlin, you don't! We've all entitled to our own opinion!

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    XyFan

    [111]Dec 5, 2010
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    will return ~~~

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    XyFan

    [112]Dec 5, 2010
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    will return ~~~

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    XyFan

    [113]Dec 5, 2010
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    will return ~~ yay.

    In the end i totally forgot what he had to to with the sword so i though maybe he's going to Arthur and show off that he has magic.. lol .. what was i hoping for ..

    And to hide a sword in a stone ? everyone can see it if they want to.. :O

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    boom-moo

    [114]Dec 5, 2010
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    XyFan wrote:
    And to hide a sword in a stone ? everyone can see it if they want to.. :O
    But it was a magical sword firmly stuck into the stone with magic, so it can't be pulled out as if it was a regular sword using regular means.

    Please, use the edit option in the drop down menu at the bottom of your posts to avoide double/triple posting, it goes against the site rules, thank you
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    Drakeseder

    [115]Dec 5, 2010
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    illegalferret wrote:


    Drakeseder wrote:


    Why? When did he train? Yes, there's every need for him to be an expert, the entire reason you train with a sword is so you don't get hit in any capacity. It's life or death for someone in that situation and taking a hit anywhere could lead to you having a disadvantage in continuing the fight.


    We've seen him watching Arthur train and Arthur's been giving him advice on what to do in fight (see 3x11). So i assume he's picked up some tips along the way! For that immortal army on hit from Excalibur caused them a serious disadvantage


    Drakeseder wrote:
    Yes, you could put any show in a good light if you wanted to look at it that way. A good show depends on how well those elements are used, not just if they are added to it.



    I think we may have to agree to disagree! I love Merlin, you don't! We've all entitled to our own opinion!




    Little tid bits of advice and watching someone else train isn't going to allow you to get the better of men that train since they are young and are going to have copious amounts of strength in comparison to skinny little Merlin. No, being hit once and losing is not a significant disadvantage when we're discussing sword fighting. Merlin was the one with a huge disadvantage, using a sword once in a blue moon and getting tips isn't going to stop someone skilled from disarming you or using techniques that you cannot match, Merlin used his sword like children playing with swords do. You seem to think somehow a physically weak and extremely under-trained swordsmen is going to always get a hit on trained swordsmen that should and would disarm someone with far worse skill, easily.


    Yes, enjoying the show is subjective and I never said your opinion was incorrect. However, this show is riddled with plot holes, poor characterization, poor character development and is repetitive in many aspects. If it doesn't change your ability to enjoy the show, there is nothing wrong with that and continue enjoying it, but I am disappointed in a show that had tons of underused potential.

    Edited on 12/05/2010 4:54am
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  • Avatar of zeencat

    zeencat

    [116]Dec 5, 2010
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    Drakeseder wrote:


    zeencat wrote:
    Why on earth would they give the sword to Lancelot. The Great Dragon said it was for Arthur to weld only. In any other's hands it would be used for evil. Like the Lord of the Rings. Besides there is no mention in the Legends involving Lancelot and the Excalibar. I don't think this version of Merlin would of worked with any other corporation making it. The BBC makes fantastic family entertainment. That is watched years after it's made. Take Only Fools and Horses or Faulty Towers.



    The "Great Dragon" should have added that it was made for Merlin and Uther too, since they used it perfectly fine. I mean Merlin has never shown an aptitude for using the sword or any weapon other than magic, which made the final scenes all the more ridiculous with him doing two moves against supposedly trained swordsmen that then "blew up" into horribly animated parts. No, it's nothing "like the Lord of the Rings" and this show should never be compared to Lord of the Rings in any capacity.The writers take plenty of liberties with the story and don't follow the lore of King Arthur word for word, why not this time?

    Lord of the Rings reference - I was referring to the ring. Most men wanted to posses the ring for what in their mind was to use it for good but the power of the ring corrupted. I believe that the same is with excalibur.




    illegalferret wrote:

    Drakeseder wrote:


    Why? When did he train? Yes, there's every need for him to be an expert, the entire reason you train with a sword is so you don't get hit in any capacity. It's life or death for someone in that situation and taking a hit anywhere could lead to you having a disadvantage in continuing the fight.


    We've seen him watching Arthur train and Arthur's been giving him advice on what to do in fight (see 3x11). So i assume he's picked up some tips along the way! For that immortal army on hit from Excalibur caused them a serious disadvantage


    Drakeseder wrote:
    Yes, you could put any show in a good light if you wanted to look at it that way. A good show depends on how well those elements are used, not just if they are added to it.



    I think we may have to agree to disagree! I love Merlin, you don't! We've all entitled to our own opinion!




    I'm with you IF. I love the show - it has it's down sides but lets face it nothing in this world can ever be perfect. I love the show as well. We are all definitely entitled to our own opinions.



    Edited on 12/05/2010 5:07am
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    fernajen

    [117]Dec 5, 2010
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    I really enjoyed the banter between Arthur and Merlin. Merlin running around with Excalibur(but I disappointed that Arthur didn't get to use it). Arthur knighting a bunch of commoners "I'm about to do something that my father wouldn't approve of."


    But I have to say I was slightly annoyed with Merlin at the end of this episode. Letting Morgana scream down the place. Seriously? At least knock her out or give me a good reason for just fleeing. Especially since it would be safer to stop her than run through an area where bits of the castle are falling...

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    boom-moo

    [118]Dec 5, 2010
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    fernajen wrote:
    But I have to say I was slightly annoyed with Merlin at the end of this episode. Letting Morgana scream down the place. Seriously? At least knock her out or give me a good reason for just fleeing. Especially since it would be safer to stop her than run through an area where bits of the castle are falling...
    I don't think it is in Merlin to hurt Morgana when unprovoked, they've been friends after all and despite the side she chose they are both magical creatures. It wasn't the best of ends to the scene, I agree.
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    fernajen

    [119]Dec 5, 2010
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    boom-moo wrote:
    fernajen wrote:
    But I have to say I was slightly annoyed with Merlin at the end of this episode. Letting Morgana scream down the place. Seriously? At least knock her out or give me a good reason for just fleeing. Especially since it would be safer to stop her than run through an area where bits of the castle are falling...
    I don't think it is in Merlin to hurt Morgana when unprovoked, they've been friends after all and despite the side she chose they are both magical creatures. It wasn't the best of ends to the scene, I agree.


    I think screaming stones off the ceiling and walls counts as provocation. That could other people killed by allowing that. At least knock her out.

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    boom-moo

    [120]Dec 5, 2010
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    I think that was uncontrolled, angry magic. Do you guys think that Morgana was making the roof fall to hit Merlin, Gaius and Lancelot? She could as well have knocked herself out or squash Morgause under a rock. And it didn't look to me like any other room in the castle was tumbling down but that one. Still it's like a lousy, unfinished scene, running and leaving those two behind.
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