Merlin Forums

BBC (ended 2012)

Episode discussion - 3x13 'The Coming Of Arthur Part 2'

  • Avatar of leapinglucas

    leapinglucas

    [161]Dec 5, 2010
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    Hello again, didn't quite expect that sort of reaction I'll just defend myself once and then I'd like to move on to talking about the show again.


    This sort of discussion comes up on a lot of forums and I think, continuing to watch a show when you don't like it is similar to continuing to read comments from people that you don't agree with. The easy answer to that would be, 'if you don't like someone's comments, just don't read them. Skip over those posts and move on.' But I wouldn't say that because I can't dictate why someone may want to or not want to read posts from someone they feel is negative.


    Maybe they like to see if their favourite show needs defending, maybe they like to hear opinions different to their own, maybe they like to feel their blood boil. I couldn't say, but I'm not going to tell someone what to read or what to watch. That's their business. I think it's actually good to surround yourself with people who have different opinions to your own. It's good for the soul.


    I enjoyed 5 of the episodes this year, and I enjoyed parts of some others. I would like to be able to talk about what I liked, and what I didn't, like everyone else here does. That only seems fair. Yes, I did notice there are some new people here (welcome all!) but I'd like to point out that I'm not one of them. I've been here all season. My first posts to the forum were wholly positive. If they've become less so, that's because I feel the quality of the 3rd season deteriorated, not that I decided to be more "negative". In fact, my review of THIS episode had the word "love" 8 times, and "hate" not even once.


    Having said that, there is a difference between just being negative for the sake of trashing something, and wanting something you like to achieve its potential and trying to describe or share that feeling with others. I don't think family shows necessarily lack clever plotting or complexity or some adult themes. I think most people here have been respectful and constructive (including hopefully myself) and as this forum invites a range of opinions, that should be okay. You can usually tell the difference. Negative posts are like: "That sucked! These writers are idiots." Whereas constructive comments are usually more like, "I didn't like this because…" and "I wish they would do this…" There's a difference. If the writers/producers of the show scan forums like these (and I think there is some evidence that they do) then it's not really fair to try and silence opinions that differ from your own. The producers have a right to hear how their show is going over with a range of viewers. Kids and grownups (they do say they aim the show at both), those who love everything, those who love some aspects but have reservations, those who like the concept but not the execution and those who have had a gut full. Maybe it will influence them with how they approach the series next year, maybe not. But this is a free focus group for the producers. It might be the more avid fans -- those that join discussion forums rather than casual viewers -- and comments will probably be either wildly enthusiastic or hyper-critical. But the forum shouldn't skew one way or the other because people of different opinions have been suggested to leave.


    Anyway, happy to debate this somewhere else that's appropriate, but I don't think an episode discussion forum is the place. You can PM me:

    boom-moo wrote:
    leapinglucas wrote:
    Why did Morgana scream and bring the walls of Camelot down? Because that's how they end scenes when they have written themselves into a corner. They have this bag of prop rocks and dust, they rock the camera and throw the rocks about and everything looks dramatic. In this case they get to say that Morgana and Morgause "disappeared", Morgause is maybe dead or maybe alive depending on whether Emilia would like to come back for cameos. The cup is maybe with them or maybe not, depending on whether they need it for another story idea -- to kill someone off dramatically then later bring them back to life.


    This has always been very obvious to me, and even though it can be a bit frustrating I don't really mind it. TPTB don't know if the show is gonna be picked up and under which terms until very late so they need to play with loose and open plotlines to adjust and map out the new series accordingly.


    Yes, I do understand the practical necessities of TV and good producers are definitely able to go with the tide. Let me try and explain it a different way.


    I feel as if the final episode was approached like:


    The last episode is gonna be great. There's going to be all these iconic things like the Round Table and the Knights of Camelot. We'll see the Lady of the Lake again and from her we'll get Excalibur. There'll be this huge fight sequence at the end and Morgana will go fully Evil! Merlin will put Excalibur in the stone and that will be our final frame.


    So to me, the episode progressed like they were ticking off these plot points. Round Table? TICK Knights? TICK Excalibur? TICK? It had that "feeling" about it. Does that make any sense at all?


    So for instance, they have to get from Point A to Point B, like: Merlin and Co. retrieve the cup but we want the M&Ms to have it. Solution, Merlin accidently loses it over a cliff where a guard just happens to be waiting to catch it. Someone in the writing team needed to say: "hang on, we've already shown that Merlin can stop a pale of spilled water from hitting the ground. We'll have to come up with a different solution." But no, and the damage to the character is done.


    For instance, they want to have a Merlin/Arthur buddy scene in each episode, but often don't write it organically into the plot but rather slot it in the same place, before the second act. Merlin comes in to do something in Arthur's rooms, says something cheeky, Arthur throws something at him. And that does damage to those characters, making their friendship seem to be in a rut.


    They want to give Angel something to do but haven't written her organically into the plot -- so they have her arrange some flowers, or come to Arthur just before the battle and tell him she believes in him. Result: Gwen's character is wasted.


    Granted this episode didn't have so many of these pat solutions because it was jam-packed with iconic happenings. But rather than rush them all into the last episode they might have been better to build these things more slowly, and give them the time that they deserved. For instance, if Morgana had taken over Camelot earlier in the season, Gwen had been given the role of palace spy for at least several episodes, risking her life and staying just one step ahead of the M&Ms and Percival had turned up earlier and we got to know him and see the Knights-to-be working and living together before they were all suddenly knighted.


    I'm not the first and only person to have these criticisms, and I voice them in the hopes that someone reads them.


    I just feel that if they approached it slightly differently -- from a "character" perspective, letting the characters drive the plot rather than the milestones, you might have had a similar result this season, but without seeming so rushed and mechanical. Those of you who felt the same way might see what I mean. But if it didn't seem that way to you -- that's okay too Peace!

    Edited on 12/06/2010 1:20am
    Edited 5 total times.
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  • Avatar of D-syfer

    D-syfer

    [162]Dec 5, 2010
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    I just watch the episode, and I thought it was awesome. I think my heart forgot to beat through the whole 45 minutes or so. What a great way to end series 3. And I can't wait for next series.
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  • Avatar of xANNEx37081x

    xANNEx37081x

    [163]Dec 6, 2010
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    fenerliyim wrote:


    Though i did watch the Dr.Who pilot episode and now that was a disgrace. I dont know how old that show is but holy **** was that tv show outdated and stupid. I'm amazed its still on tv. They should just cancel that one and give the money to merlin.



    Good luck with that one, Dr. Who is like THE show on BBC. It still has the most viewers and brings a lot of money. If you count all series from the very beginning in 1963its now in its 31st or 32nd series/season but just counting the "new series" starting in 2005it would be 5 until now, the sixth coming in 2011. I think it´s actually really good if you watch more than just the pilot


    But back to Merlin: After considering what had been said in this forum and re-watching the finale several times I have to admit that the boots-scene at the end was quite nice and A/M were shown equally.


    Setting my expectations lower and just watching the ep without questioning everything or thinking what would´ve been better it´s an nice ending to this series. But there are still things that bothered mebut whichhad been said a lot of times from different persons. It was just too rushed and there was no real character development like there was in the 1st and 2nd series. I hope that in S4 we maybe get some of these "moments",I would really appreciate an episode whereArthur has to save Merlin like the Poisened Chalice from S1 (better yet if Morgana kidnaps Merlin,constructing a dilemma for Arthur by having to deal with his evil half-sister in order to save his friend...but thats just me wishing and imagining )

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    boom-moo

    [164]Dec 6, 2010
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    leapinglucas wrote:
    They want to give Angel something to do but haven't written her organically into the plot so they have her arrange some flowers, or come to Arthur just before the battle and tell him she believes in him. Result: Gwen's character is wasted.
    Well, I am not one who is thrilled with Gwen moral compassing around but I think that in this episode she was cleverly written. She used her (out of the blue) link with Leon to try and fool Morgana. TPBP actually remembered that she is the blackmisth's daughter which was a nice and useful touch, different from stealing the keys rightaway. And she was involved in a couple of funny seasons with Leon and the dress, which was nice. And they got her into some Arthur/Gwen romantic moment (two kisses no less) as one would have expected from a finale. Not bad at all.
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  • Avatar of leapinglucas

    leapinglucas

    [165]Dec 6, 2010
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    boom-moo wrote:
    leapinglucas wrote:
    They want to give Angel something to do but haven't written her organically into the plot so they have her arrange some flowers, or come to Arthur just before the battle and tell him she believes in him. Result: Gwen's character is wasted.
    Well, I am not one who is thrilled with Gwen moral compassing around but I think that in this episode she was cleverly written. She used her (out of the blue) link with Leon to try and fool Morgana. TPBP actually remembered that she is the blackmisth's daughter which was a nice and useful touch, different from stealing the keys rightaway. And she was involved in a couple of funny seasons with Leon and the dress, which was nice. And they got her into some Arthur/Gwen romantic moment (two kisses no less) as one would have expected from a finale. Not bad at all.



    Yes, I definitely agree I highlighted this much-improved take on Gwen in my review.

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  • Avatar of boom-moo

    boom-moo

    [166]Dec 6, 2010
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    Where I said "funny seasons" I meant "funny scenes" Just noticed the typo.
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    roswellnm1947

    [167]Dec 6, 2010
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    A lot of interesting "banter" here about 3x13, especially on the issue of being "critical". You may find the CliqueClack take on the episode and being "critical" refreshing:

    http://cliqueclack.com/tv/2010/12/05/merlin-the-finale-that-fixed-almost-everything/
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  • Avatar of AudiRox

    AudiRox

    [168]Dec 6, 2010
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    There's nothing wrong with being critical of a show you love. I have many gripes with this show, mostly due to poor writing (and some poor directing/editing), but I've found myself enjoying it. The characters are what got me to watch, Merlin, Gwen, Arthur, Uther and now, Gwaine. I still can't get behind KM's acting or how poorly her evil-ness has been handled by TPTB, but I still enjoy parts of Morgana and seeing as she is the show's main evil character, she is needed.

    Also, I'm mainly used to shows that have a high production value, and I don't consider Merlin to be one of them. Understandably so. Its genre is a family TV show, and so I don't expect it to show bloodshed (like Dexter), sex, incest or complicated love-triangles. And I definitely don't expect the production level to be of HBO's Rome's standards. I enjoy it mainly for the characters we've grown to love and/or hate. I love to hate Uther because he is brilliantly portrayed by Anthony Head. I think Bradley James is a narcissistic prat, but he does a decent Arthur. Merlin is adorably played by CM and while AC is criminally underused, I enjoy seeing her on my screen whenever the writers give her time.

    As for 3.13, while I enjoyed many parts of it, I felt as though it was rushed and they crammed way too much. My gripes are with the writers/TPTB. They wasted many a episode and decided to rush one of the integral ones. This is poor planning by them. There's no natural flow. But I still enjoyed majority of the scenes.

    I still have hope that KM's acting will improve (been saying that since the first series), AC will get her own story lines which will give her more screen time, Arthur and Merlin's relationship will grow beyond the throwing of goblets and calling each names (there was somewhat growth in 3.13), directing/editing will improve and everything will naturally unveil in the 4th series.

    Here's hoping.
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    boom-moo

    [169]Dec 6, 2010
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    I wonder how Merlin knew where to find Lancelot. "I sent a letter to Haldor days ago' I take it "Haldor" is a place, right?
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    roswellnm1947

    [170]Dec 6, 2010
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    boom-moo wrote:
    I wonder how Merlin knew where to find Lancelot. "I sent a letter to Haldor days ago' I take it "Haldor" is a place, right?


    I thought he said "Ealdor", home town of Merlin? LOL.
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    ACDiNosey

    [171]Dec 6, 2010
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    the subtitles said Haldor, if it helps!
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    zeencat

    [172]Dec 6, 2010
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    roswellnm1947 wrote:
    boom-moo wrote:
    I wonder how Merlin knew where to find Lancelot. "I sent a letter to Haldor days ago' I take it "Haldor" is a place, right?


    I thought he said "Ealdor", home town of Merlin? LOL.


    That's what I thought he said as well.
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    boom-moo

    [173]Dec 6, 2010
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    I think Gaius says Haldor. What would Lancelot be doing in Ealdor?
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    roswellnm1947

    [174]Dec 6, 2010
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    boom-moo wrote:
    I think Gaius says Haldor. What would Lancelot be doing in Ealdor?


    I checked again -- Merlin said to Gaius "I've sent a letter to Haldor days ago. He (Lancelot) must have moved on". It could either be a name of a town or of a person, but internet searches on Haldor come up with mostly names of people.
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    boom-moo

    [175]Dec 6, 2010
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    It sounds like Merlin has been keeping tabs on him, which I bet wasn't easy in Medieval times. But theatrical licenses, right?
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    D-syfer

    [176]Dec 6, 2010
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    Probably Merlin was still intouch with Lancelot, so that could be the reason why Merlin knew where Lancelot was.

    After watching this epi I realized how deep Merlin and Lancelot's friendship is. They're the real BFFs so to say.
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    boom-moo

    [177]Dec 6, 2010
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    I like it that both Lancelot and Gwaine first became close to Merlin before being knights of Camelot. And it's good that one of them knows about Merlin's magic, he is gonna need an ear when Gaius is not around.
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    D-syfer

    [178]Dec 7, 2010
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    I don't know if this is the right place to post this but it's all about the round table.


    Remember the round table have engraved old english wordings on its edges. Here'sthe meaning of those words.

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    WitchyWeasel88

    [179]Dec 7, 2010
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    Thanks very much, D-syfer! I absolutely love this sort of trivia.
    (Turns out, I'd already stumbled across two of those words for use in ff )

    Edited on 12/07/2010 4:50am
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    boom-moo

    [180]Dec 7, 2010
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    Really cool They didn't take the right places though Lol
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