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BBC (ended 2012)

Rewatching Merlin week 16 - Episode 2x02 The Once and Future Queen

  • Avatar of boom-moo

    boom-moo

    [1]Apr 17, 2010
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    Seeing as we had a 9 long month hiatus ahead, rewatching Merlin seemed like a great idea to deal with the withdrawal. Everyone is most welcome to join and leave their comments on the episode that is currently being rewatched. I think it is interesting how perspectives change once the show has progressed and we've gotten the chance to know the characters better. It is also funny to realize how we are able to catch up on new things when we watch the episodes over again.



    People who found interesting to put their views in common so far are:



    Episode Rewatching Thread wrote:
    boom-moo.
    illegalferret.
    ericsprau.
    merlinrules09.
    dpebbleson.
    TheCloser4eva.



    Episodes Rewatched so far wrote:
    Week 1. 1x01 The Dragon's Call (boom-moo).
    Week 2. 1x11 The Labyrinth of Gedref (illegalferret).
    Week 3. 1x09 Excalibur (dpebbleson).
    Week 4. 1x10 The Moment of Truth (ericsprau).
    Week 5. 2X10 Sweet Dreams (TheCloser4eva).
    Week 6. 1x13 Le Morte D'Arthur (boom-moo) .
    Week 7. 2x07 The Curse of Cornelius Sigan (ericsprau). .
    Week 8. 1x04 The Poisoned Chalice (illegalferret). .
    Week 9. 2x08 The Sins of the Father (dpebbleson). .
    Week 10. 1x08 The Beginning of the End (boom-moo).
    Week 11. 1x12 To Kill the King (illegalferret).
    Week 12. 2x09 The Lady of the Lake (ericsprau).
    Week 13. 1X06 A Remedy to Cure All Ills (dpebbleson).
    Week 14. 2x03 The Nightmare Begins (merlinrules09).
    Week 15. 1x07 The Gates of Avalon (TheCloser4eva).
    Week 16. 2x02 The Once and Future Queen (boom-moo)



    Rules are as follows:

    1. We got started on the first Saturday of 2010 and a new thread with a new episode choice will be open every Saturday. We are following the order in the list above to open threads and we are selecting the episodes in a random order, so all 26 episodes of both series are up to be picked anytime.

    2. Everyone should copy and paste the information in this entry (Introduction and Rules) when opening a new thread. Make sure to add the episode of your choice in the list above. Keeping track of the turns and our progress will be useful when we have rewatched a bunch of episodes already and having the rules at hand will be useful for those who join us half way through.

    3. Agreed that we all sometimes just don't have the time or the inclination to leave comments, I'd like to make clear that it's not compulsory to rewatch and/or comment on every single episode.

    4. Anyone is most welcome to join at any time. I will make sure to add new members to the list so they have their chance to choose an episode.

    5. If you don't own the DVDs or the episodes, don't let that stop you from joining. Feel free to pm me so I can give you a link to a site where to watch them online

    6. Should anyone have any doubt, do not hesitate to pm me.



    This week, we are rewatching Season 2 Episode 02

    The Once and Future Queen



    Thank you all and enjoy rewatching

    Edited on 04/17/2010 4:47am
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  • Avatar of illegalferret

    illegalferret

    [2]Apr 17, 2010
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    Great choice Esther I love this episode


    Right just rewatched and i still love it! Yes Arthur is at his most arrogant at points but at the same time you (well i) can't help but love him as he tries to do the right thing. Merlin himself is on fine form trying to keep Arthur competing whilst trying stop the assassin, the banter between Merlin and Arthur is as good as ever the "body of a lion..." moment is priceless


    I know many people think the whole Guinevers/Arthur relationship is rushed in this episode and yes the kiss kindda came out of the blue but i personally have no problem with it. At the beginning of the episode they are aware of each and are beginning to have romantic feelings for the other, but nothing more. By the end they have more of an understanding of each other, i think the kiss was a spur of the moment thing on Arthur's part i think by the end of this episode they're certainly not in love as such but instead feel a growing affection for the other. The relationship needed kick starting and this episode does the job maybe it should have been later in the series.


    Anyway loved rewatching it.



    I've used the word Love a lot in this post!

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  • Avatar of boom-moo

    boom-moo

    [3]Apr 17, 2010
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    Have you checked the link at the end of my post?
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    ericsprau

    [4]Apr 17, 2010
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    I just watched this episode on SyFy on Monday (it encores at midnight in my time zone)! I also watched The Nightmare Begins on SyFy last night.


    The only thing I kept thinking during this episode was during the part where they are looking for the assassin, Merlin and Arthur BOTH walk straight past a group of guards in cloaks. To ME, that would be very suspicious. Hooded people would be the first ones I checked! Are people in dark, hooded cloaks that common in Camelot?


    Oh, and that link Esther? FRIGGIN' HILARIOUS. I can't WAIT for their take on Idirsholas. Bookmark'd.

    Edited on 04/17/2010 8:21am
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    pcdsa

    [5]Apr 17, 2010
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    I love this episode for the action (jousting), the humour (Uther-Arthur-lion-eagle-bear-beast, William of Dera scenes, Merlin's sly digs at Arthur and Arthur-chicken scene) and the romance.

    Highlights:
    - THE KISS was perfect. However they used the same music when Lancelot and Guinevere kissed and I was gutted. Only later did I realise that it was Lancelot's theme, which I thought was really cynical of TPTB.
    - Arthur's backward look at Guinevere...sigh...
    - Merlin's "Do nothing..." rant - more please but this time to Arthur.
    - First appearance of Sir Leon

    Agree kiss was spur of the moment and not love at this stage. I'm happy with the timing of this episode.
    Yes it was good to see arrogant Arthur being taken down a peg or two and learning from the experience.
    When Merlin recoiled after Myror's lance pierced Arthur - it seemed that Merlin felt Arthur's pain. I would have liked him to have rushed to Arthur's side before finding out about Myror but then Arthur did have Guinevere... Did anyone feel when Guinevere said to Arthur "You have nothing to prove, least of all to me" was a bit presumptuous at this stage?
    Myror was a pretty useless assassin.

    Edited on 04/17/2010 10:17am
    Edited 2 total times.
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    illegalferret

    [6]Apr 17, 2010
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    I love Merlin's rant as well, it's brilliantly delivered and so true!


    That link Esther is classic! The conversation between Arthur and Uther made me giggle!!

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  • Avatar of boom-moo

    boom-moo

    [7]Apr 17, 2010
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    I've posted the Facebook review on 2x03 in the Join the Magic. Together with this one, I've posted the 3 that are out so far Arthur and Gwen have changed their relationship status to complicated. LOL!
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    dpebbleson

    [8]Apr 18, 2010
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    Myself and me are back, after two days of silencio! This was a really good episode. Although, I think so of almost every episode of season 2. Okay, the kiss was a bit rushed, but could happen. Still the love in the latter episodes is not as realistic, but hey - we've got an entire thread to rant about it


    What I remember I was expecting when I first watched it that Arthur would notice that he is still behaving very badly to Merlin. I also thought Guinevere would point it out as well. This way we had to Arthurs in the episode, the prat one dealing with Merlin, and the conscientious (hah, you should listen one of my professors say this word, it's hilarious ) one, who is at Gwen's Accommodations.

    Edited on 04/18/2010 1:59pm
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    ericsprau

    [9]Apr 18, 2010
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    boom-moo wrote:
    I've posted the Facebook review on 2x03 in the Join the Magic. Together with this one, I've posted the 3 that are out so far Arthur and Gwen have changed their relationship status to complicated. LOL!


    I had already read it. I like the bit at the end where Lancelot says he's coming back.

    Arthur: "I just watched 'A Knight's Tale' and 'Pretty Woman!'" LOL
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    boom-moo

    [10]Apr 19, 2010
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    I didn't like Myror from second one because he wears a fang pendant similar to Arthur's. Duh And then, he proves to be a pretty lame assassin, despite being the most feared one in all known lands

    I remember being really puzzled about Arthur having killed Odin's son because Odin says "the man who murdered my son" so it sounded to me like a cold blood act and not a duel of any kind (in which case I would have said "the man who killed my son"). I didn't think Arthur was capable of that, no matter how arrogant of a prat he can be.

    The jousting! I was so pleased about it And Sir Leon being all hot was a nice addition. I can't deny he caught my eye, whereas other Camelot knights have always just been extras without a (hot) face to me.

    illegalferret wrote:
    the "body of a lion..." moment is priceless
    It is! Uther is so gullible and blind when it comes to destroying anything magical.

    I wonder where Arthur's party went for 4 days as he is competing in the tourney. Guess they took it as a holiday and were getting wasted at some inn in whatever village nearby.

    Aww at Merlin washing his clothes especially for Arthur (I like Arthur's face when Merlin says that after he has complained about the smell; he shuts up acknowledging Merlin's effort to please him). Funny tough Merlin never wears those and they fit Arthur like a glove Lol, did you notice that Arthur's clothes are nowhere to be seen after he changes?Arthur as a peasant. His clothes?

    I like how the man who brings Myror to Odin also warns Uther about Odin's plans. Guess being a double faced traitor was a good way to get some income back then.

    I can't help but at how anyone in a huge hooded cloak looks anything but suspicious in Camelot, but hey.

    Funny how Gwen is not pleased at the idea of having Arthur staying at her home, and how Arthur isn't any more pleased to remain at such a humble dwelling. I hadn't notice that one of the first things that Arthur does is rummaging in a cupboard where some silver-like plates can be seen. I wonder if that was random or if was done on purpose to show that Gwen actually has some plates that look like the ones in the palace kitchen but without the royal seal.

    I love Sir William! The actor is great. Apparently behaving with honour and nobility means walking all stretched up. Guess nobles don't lean to pick anything for themselves. He is really funny as well when he is first seen on the horse totally unable to control it I think they say in the audio commentary that he was genuinely scared cause he doesn't ride. Lol, poor man.

    Aww poor Gwen sleeping on the floor

    Whoa! There's a spy in Camelot helping Myror out I agree with those who have mentioned that Merlin's rant is delivered brilliantly. I have seen that bit countless times, Colin really is a superb actor.

    Very Arthur like (and very human) to be super excited after having defeated Leon. I like the victory gesture he makes with his arm once inside the tent. Guess he had that thorn stuck and could finally leave that doubt behind. He is able to beat him when Leon is competing 100%. Lol at Gwen defining "Sir William" as an arrogant pig. She really is pissed off having to put up with Arthur. Merlin's patience is indeed praiseworthy.

    I really love how Arthur shows at least three times that he deeply misses the glory, the attention and the recognition of the audience, it really makes his decision to be humble and let Sir William collect the trophy more powerful.

    Whoa at Gwen's rant. I fully support her but one has to have some serious guts to face the prince that way. He might be behaving appallingly while being her guest and all, but he still is the prince. Go Gwen! If you come to think about it, so far Gwen was acting like Sir Leon, just letting the prince have his way. By standing up to him Gwen is actually doing what Arthur wants: to be treated as he deserves judging just on his own merit. And she doesn't ask for that much, just for a 'please' and a 'thank you'. It was great to see how Arthur realized that just a bit of politeness makes a huge difference in the way he is perceived by others and actually learning his lesson.

    Lol at Arthur checking the chicken out as if it would cook itself. I really wonder what he would have done if Merlin hadn't showed up. Maybe he could have used the excuse of changing his clothes or something to go find Merlin. By the way, Merlin really is a messy servant. Anyone noticed how (when he is getting a clean shirt for Arthur) he tosses a shirt over his shoulder before getting a second one and leaves the first one on the floor? Lol.

    Uh oh, Gwen is disappointed and calls Arthur a liar He takes it well though, reckons he's got a lot to learn. Seems like Gwen brings out the best of him. But then he says he cares about her. How deep of a care? How come? Where did that come from? Bit rushed, no?

    When Arthur explains that Odin's son challenged him to a fight to prove himself, it is not that different from what he is doing, only that the jousting context makes it more 'legal' so to speak.

    dpebbleson wrote:
    What I remember I was expecting when I first watched it that Arthur would notice that he is still behaving very badly to Merlin. I also thought Guinevere would point it out as well. This way we had to Arthurs in the episode, the prat one dealing with Merlin, and the conscientious (hah, you should listen one of my professors say this word, it's hilarious ) one, who is at Gwen's Accommodations.
    Lol at Arthur taking the floor but asking for the mattress. I like it that he shows his old jerky traits though. People don't change from one day to the other, and as much as I feel sorry for Merlin, I like Arthur being his old self too. Gwen might bring the best of him, but it has to be a work in progress.
    illegalferret wrote:
    By the end they have more of an understanding of each other, i think the kiss was a spur of the moment thing on Arthur's part i think by the end of this episode they're certainly not in love as such but instead feel a growing affection for the other. The relationship needed kick starting and this episode does the job maybe it should have been later in the series
    I don't mind it was shown early, the relationship needed a starting kick indeed. I agree it's nothing like love they are feeling yet (certainly not Gwen) but it really was a turning point for Arthur.

    Poor Morgana doesn't have a line in this episode. She is pretty puzzled when Gwen leaves in a hurry after "Sir William" is hurt, which is funny.

    pcdsa wrote:
    When Merlin recoiled after Myror's lance pierced Arthur - it seemed that Merlin felt Arthur's pain.
    I love that bit! And it was acknowledged in the audio comment by Tony and Angel too. Gotta love Colin.

    pcdsa wrote:
    Did anyone feel when Guinevere said to Arthur "You have nothing to prove, least of all to me" was a bit presumptuous at this stage?
    Absolutely, that bit makes me cringe. It's about proving he is a worthy champion to himself, it doesn't have to do with impressing Gwen. Being an anonymous champion and letting William collect the trophy is for Gwen. He even uses her "humility" term. Aww at Sir William waving at them when he is getting the crowd's applause.

    Very lovely of Arthur to say he's "learnt a great deal". Odin must be really pissed off since Arthur is alive. It seems like Arthur convinces Uther to try and make peace, so it leaves a door open for Odin to strike again next season or whenever. Isn't it 2x08 where they are attacked by Odin's men?

    pcdsa wrote:
    However they used the same music when Lancelot and Guinevere kissed and I was gutted. Only later did I realise that it was Lancelot's theme, which I thought was really cynical of TPTB.
    Gah, tell me about it. I used to watch the last scene in 1x05 once and again because I loved the score so much.

    And my favourite bit, the last scene. Arthur really seems to be into her, it is very nice of him to offer Gwen explanations about the kiss and how it wasn't just him taking advantage of the situation but something that came from his heart. He looks bummed and kind of ashamed because he has to pledge to his father's will. She gives him hope claiming how he can be a better man when his time to be king comes. Man, Gwen must hate Uther so much. He had her father killed, then stands in the way of an eventual relationship with Arthur (I don't think she is contemplating the idea as something real as of now but hey).

    And he turns around, he does turn around. That is the bestest of the scene. That simple gesture conveys so much, speaks louder than all the said and unsaid words. And Gwen makes eye contact, she holds his stare in a mixture of hope for a better future and a wish to believe that Arthur will make is possible. Then in 2x10 he will make eye contact while she would avoid it. Very nice

    ___________

    Sorry for some chunks of text, tv.com keeps breaking my paragraphs where it royally wants *sigh*
    Edited on 04/19/2010 3:47am
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  • Avatar of pcdsa

    pcdsa

    [11]Apr 19, 2010
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    dpebbleson wrote:
    Still the love in the latter episodes is not as realistic, but hey - we've got an entire thread to rant about it

    Which later episodes? 2.04 was rushed but the other episodes were fine for me.

    dpebbleson wrote:
    What I remember I was expecting when I first watched it that Arthur would notice that he is still behaving very badly to Merlin.

    I don't think that will ever happen completely even after he finds out the truth. Their relationship is based on Arthur being the big brother, always picking on Merlin. Though he would be very protective of him if he anyone else picked on him e.g. Halig in 2.09.

    boom-moo wrote:
    But then he says he cares about her. How deep of a care? How come? Where did that come from? Bit rushed, no?

    Yes - very uncharacteristic. Maybe their close encounter when Guinevere saved Arthur in 2.01 made an even bigger impression than we realised?

    boom-moo wrote:
    I like it that he shows his old jerky traits though. People don't change from one day to the other, and as much as I feel sorry for Merlin, I like Arthur being his old self too. Gwen might bring the best of him, but it has to be a work in progress.

    I too like his digs at Merlin but also vice versa. It works best when it is two-way. Yes Arthur should be a work in progress, he has all the right ingredients but just needs to be knocked into shape.

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    boom-moo

    [12]Apr 19, 2010
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    pcdsa wrote:
    Maybe their close encounter when Guinevere saved Arthur in 2.01 made an even bigger impression than we realised?
    Lol, I wouldn't like to think he is that shallow. Unless what really impressed him was the fact that she risked her life to save him.

    pcdsa wrote:
    boom-moo wrote:
    I like it that he shows his old jerky traits though. People don't change from one day to the other, and as much as I feel sorry for Merlin, I like Arthur being his old self too. Gwen might bring the best of him, but it has to be a work in progress.
    I too like his digs at Merlin but also vice versa. It works best when it is two-way. Yes Arthur should be a work in progress, he has all the right ingredients but just needs to be knocked into shape.
    Also the Arthur/Merlin banter is quintaessential (oi, did I say that? I'm spending way too much time around Danko ) to the show. I don't think Arthur will ever stop teasing Merlin.
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    dpebbleson

    [13]Apr 19, 2010
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    I've been quintessentially influential in these speculative and much referential debates I just love the word, it sound so BIG!! And quintessential

    Now, in order of appearance:

    @pcdsa: I meant primarily the 2.04 episode, which was a bit rushed, but then again, Gwen is in 'Sweet Dreams' represented as Arthur's true love, so it's a bit too rushed as well.

    Also, I guess the ranting will continue, though of a different nature, once Arthur learns to appreciate Merlin more. He is already on that road, and already asks him for advice and such, but I gather there'll be more respect and less banter as we progress into the show. Though banter is okay, it gives a lot of comic relief.

    @Esther: About Arthur not being shallow. Well, he might just like her breasts more than he expresses it And those breasts are, well... mountains and deeps...

    And it may be that they both love what they cannot have, aka 'the forbidden fruit'. She's a servant, therefore not marriage-worthy; he a prince, therefore unreachable. We all sometimes crave much more for things we can't have, than for those at our hand.
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    pcdsa

    [14]Apr 19, 2010
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    dpebbleson wrote:
    I meant primarily the 2.04 episode, which was a bit rushed, but then again, Gwen is in 'Sweet Dreams' represented as Arthur's true love, so it's a bit too rushed as well.

    Once you accept 2.04 then 2.10 is ok.

    dpebbleson wrote:
    ...less banter as we progress into the show.

    No!!! As Esther said it is quintessential to the show.

    boom-moo wrote:
    Lol, I wouldn't like to think he is that shallow.

    Um, me thinks kettle calling pot black... Want to be ice-cream in a cone licked by a certain someone???


    Post edit:


    dpebbleson wrote:
    I've been quintessentially influential in these speculative and much referential debates I just love the word, it sound so BIG!! And quintessential


    I admit even though you are THE BIG STIRRER you are quintessential to this forum! In fact the five regulars (elements) are quintessential to this forum!!!

    Edited on 04/19/2010 12:27pm
    Edited 3 total times.
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    dpebbleson

    [15]Apr 19, 2010
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    But as I said, banter is okay, as it provides comic relief. Also, what I meant was that with a much better appreciation of Merlin and his role in the whole picture, Arthur will not be able (if he's honest) to look down on Merlin (as he still does in certain respect). For example, once he truly figures Merlin is really smart, he can't call him 'dumb' or 'stupid' or 'limited' or joke in any way about his (lack of) intelligence.


    Though I guess there will always be some room for banter. When he finds about the secret, then prolly he will mock Merlin about being too secretive; he will also always mock him about his love interests, his disorderliness and such.


    Edit: And I just noticed your edit, pcdsa Thanks, you always manage to balance things so in the end I don't sue you to the International Court of Justice. I also think you are one of those five elements quintessential to this forum. In fact, I think I could tell if it's your post or Esther's or Eric's or Sarah's, without name attached to it. Each one of you has something special in their manner of speech, ideas they present, and even in smileys they use.

    Edited on 04/19/2010 12:32pm
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    pcdsa

    [16]Apr 19, 2010
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    Yes it will be a different kind of banter - but still fun.

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    dpebbleson

    [17]Apr 19, 2010
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    Don't get me wrong, I like banter. It has so much of that British humour that amuses me very much.

    P.S. The Big Stirrer edited the previous post he stirred into the 'Merlin' forum pot
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    boom-moo

    [18]Apr 19, 2010
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    pcdsa, don't tell me you haven't seen Bradley licking an icecream in some of the links I posted!

    pcdsa wrote:
    In fact the five regulars (elements) are quintessential to this forum!!!
    Fully agree

    dpebbleson wrote:
    But as I said, banter is okay, as it provides comic relief. Also, what I meant was that with a much better appreciation of Merlin and his role in the whole picture, Arthur will not be able (if he's honest) to look down on Merlin (as he still does in certain respect). For example, once he truly figures Merlin is really smart, he can't call him 'dumb' or 'stupid' or 'limited' or joke in any way about his (lack of) intelligence.
    Though I guess there will always be some room for banter. When he finds about the secret, then prolly he will mock Merlin about being too secretive; he will also always mock him about his love interests, his disorderliness and such.
    I agree. And some kids get a bit freaked out by CGI so the banter will keep them watching.
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    pcdsa

    [19]Apr 19, 2010
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    boom-moo wrote:
    pcdsa, don't tell me you haven't seen Bradley licking an icecream in some of the links I posted!


    I have and immediately thought of you... ice-cream porn...


    dpebbleson wrote:
    Don't get me wrong, I like banter. It has so much of that British humour that amuses me very much.


    Yeah, I'm very used to it and so don't mind it and that's why I like you even though you are THE BIG STIRRER!!!



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    dpebbleson

    [20]Apr 19, 2010
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    Heh, thanks!

    Anyway, about the stirring thing. Does 'stir' mean joke in British English? I searched it in Merriam-Webster dictionary when I was writing a suit to the Court against you, but I found only 'to agitate', 'to provoke' (which does explain it in a way, since I tend to provoke with things like 'Gwen should cheat to Arthur! Immediately!'). Still, it's an American dictionary, therefore, does 'stir' have a colloquial or slang meaning of 'joke'.

    Or you just think I'm such a classy agent provocateur?
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