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Series 4 Speculations

  • Avatar of ChocoApples

    ChocoApples

    [61]Dec 13, 2010
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    In the legends (I know that's not all too reliable) but weren't Arthur and Morgause half-siblings?


    Uther certainly has got a lot of skeletons! The thing that's bugging me is, why adopt Morgana as his Ward and yet put Morgause in such a dangerous situation that Gaius sent her off to the Priestesses of the Old Religion? They definately, definately need to come up with a feasible explanation for that. If they leave that rock unturned, I will be out for blood.

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    ACDiNosey

    [62]Dec 13, 2010
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    Morgana is his daughter, Morgause isn't... That ought to be enough to explain why he took her in as his ward?!
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    boom-moo

    [63]Dec 13, 2010
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    ChocoApples wrote:
    The thing that's bugging me is, why adopt Morgana as his Ward and yet put Morgause in such a dangerous situation that Gaius sent her off to the Priestesses of the Old Religion?
    We can't be sure Gaius smuggled her out of Camelot because of Uther. The baby wasn't his so it was really none of his business. I was pretty surprised that he didn't get angry when Gaius confessed to him that he had smuggled the baby. Many questions there.
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    okajou8000

    [64]Dec 13, 2010
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    ChocoApples wrote:
    The thing that's bugging me is, why adopt Morgana as his Ward and yet put Morgause in such a dangerous situation that Gaius sent her off to the Priestesses of the Old Religion?


    naaah, what really bugging me is (and correct me if i m wrong) :


    Morgana and Morgause are sisters, it seems that Morgause is the eldest, and she was taken away from her family when she was just a baby, but Morgana lived with her parents till 6yrs or even 10 yrs (don't know exactly, but she must be old enough to remember how her father died!)....so my question is, why her parents didn't tell her abt Morgause?? and why they (not the parents, but other people including Gaius) had to lie to Uther and tell him that the child is dead??

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    boom-moo

    [65]Dec 13, 2010
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    Morgana does know how her father died, she lived with him until she was 10. It is actually Morgana who says that Uther sent him to battle and then failed to send him the promised reinforcements, kind of hitting that he sent him to a certain death.

    But we don't know what the circumstances are around Morgause being smuggled out of Camelot. I guess Gaius did it for good, to protect others, as he usually does. But back then Uther was ok with magic so it must have been something different.

    I guess Morgana wasn't told about her sister because Morgause wasn't around and they couldn't tell if she was alive or not. And maybe to keep protecting the mystery around Morgause's birth and exit from Camelot.
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    okajou8000

    [66]Dec 13, 2010
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    mmm....too much ambiguity in this show, yet still love it and impatiently look forward to......so impatiently
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    Tankim

    [67]Dec 15, 2010
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    The question is: When was Morgause smuggled out of Camelot? How old was she?


    Maybe she was Igraine's and Gorlois' child before Igraine got married to Uther. If she was smuggled out when the great purge began, she could have been 10 years or so. Or was Uther referring to a baby? I'm not sure right now, have to rewatch it.


    I suppose, Morgause's parnetage will be mentioned in season 4 or 5 at some point. I hope!

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    D-syfer

    [68]Dec 15, 2010
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    I don't think that Morgause was Ygraine's and Gorlois' child. It would mess up the idea that Igraine was not capable of conceiving a child and that Uther had resort to magic so that his wife would conceive.

    Edited on 12/15/2010 3:47am
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    Tankim

    [69]Dec 15, 2010
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    D-syfer wrote:


    I don't think that Morgause was Ygraine's and Gorlois' child. It would mess up the idea that Igraine was not capable of conceiving a child and that Uther had resort to magic so that his wife would conceive.


    Or Igraine got incapable of conceiving a child after Morgause's birth... Anyway, just a thought. Actually I don't believe that she is related to anyone except to Morgana through her mother.


    Or maybe, half of Camelot and the Old Religion people is related to each other... big mafia! :-D Just kidding.

    Edited on 12/15/2010 3:57am
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    Bridgess91

    [70]Dec 15, 2010
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    No, Morgana and Morgause are probably related by their mother but we don't know her name in Merlin because it is presumed that she is dead, I think that Gorlois's wife died right after Morgana's birth, when Morgause was about 5 or 6 years old.
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    D-syfer

    [71]Dec 15, 2010
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    Bridgess91 wrote:
    No, Morgana and Morgause are probably related by their mother but we don't know her name in Merlin because it is presumed that she is dead, I think that Gorlois's wife died right after Morgana's birth, when Morgause was about 5 or 6 years old.


    Morgana's biological mother's name is Vivian. Uther mentioned this in "the Crystal Cave" Episode.
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    LizzyGlue

    [72]Dec 15, 2010
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    Tankim wrote:


    Actually I don't believe that she is related to anyone except to Morgana through her mother.




    True. I agree with D-syfer.


    In Sins of the father, we learn that Morgana's father (Gorlois) died when she was 10.


    In The Crystal cave, Morgause gives Morgana a healing bracelet thatwas a gift from her mother. On the same episode, Gaius tells Uther thatthe bracelet bears the mark of the house of Gorlois. Later Uther tells Gaius Morgana is his daughter, that while Gorlois was away fighting (I think), his wife Vivien got lonely, implying that's when Morgana was conceived.


    I won't wait for the DNA test though.


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    Bridgess91

    [73]Dec 15, 2010
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    D-syfer wrote:
    Morgana's biological mother's name is Vivian. Uther mentioned this in "the Crystal Cave" Episode.


    Yeah, I thought so but I wasn't sure

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    D-syfer

    [74]Dec 15, 2010
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    I was thinking that Uther maybe, and this is very cruel, wanted to put Morgause away so that when Garlois comes back he will think that the child (Morgana) that Vivian is carrying is his. Just a brain twister for me, because truthfully this family thing between the Pendragons and the House of Garlois is very confusing, and complicated.
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    LizzyGlue

    [75]Dec 15, 2010
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    D-syfer wrote:
    truthfully this family thing between the Pendragons and the House of Garlois is very confusing, and complicated.



    (So confusing for me, i'm losing chronology of events here. Contrary to my last post, Gaius recognises the mark on the bracelet in Sins of the father and confesses to Uther that Morgause did not did as a child as odered by him. Plus, when Morgause gives her sister the bracelet (in the same episode) she mentiones that it came from her Mother.)


    This means Morgause got to know, or at least meet her mother at some point, but how old was she then. And also, when did she find out she had a half sister in Morgana? Morgause has to return so hopefully we'll find it out.


    Morgause probably vowed to make Uther pay the moment she found out (from the priestesses?) that he had odered her murder.

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    Tankim

    [76]Dec 15, 2010
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    LizzyGlue wrote:


    Morgause probably vowed to make Uther pay the moment she found out (from the priestesses?) that he had odered her murder.


    We don't know if Uther had ordered her death. He only said that he was led to believe that the child (not baby) had died.


    D-syfer wrote:
    I was thinking that Uther maybe, and this is very cruel, wanted to put Morgause away so that when Garlois comes back he will think that the child (Morgana) that Vivian is carrying is his. Just a brain twister for me, because truthfully this family thing between the Pendragons and the House of Garlois is very confusing, and complicated.


    Very interesting. I'd almost say you might be right but in that case Gaius and Morgause/Morgana would have thought that they are full sisters and not just half sisters. So if they are related through their mother, they must have known that Morgause and Morgana had different fathers. I'm afraid poor Gorlois has nothing to do with it all and is no one's father. That's mean somehow...

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    LizzyGlue

    [77]Dec 15, 2010
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    Tankim wrote:


    We don't know if Uther had ordered her death. He only said that he was led to believe that the child (not baby) had died.




    You have a good point there.


    All we know is Morgause is older than Morgana and the only reason I can think of for Gaius smuggling her out of Camelot at a young age is that her life was likely at risk because she had (or was born of someone) with magic and that these events ocurred during the great purge. I remember in Tears of U P, when the king was hallucinating, Gaius mentioned to Merelin that during his war against magic, some of the people Uther sent to their deaths were innocent children.


    To D_syfer: I imagine Uther may have wanted Morgause dead to increase the chances of Gorlois, grief striken by the loss of one child, to readily accept the unborn one (Morgana) without asking many questions. But I think I'm being way too cynical here.

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    WitchyWeasel88

    [78]Dec 15, 2010
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    Tankim wrote:
    He only said that he was led to believe that the child (not baby) had died.


    Gaius says that she was smuggled out of Camelot shortly after her birth so Morgause must have been a baby at the time.


    I've always believed Morgause is older than Arthur so I doubt this happened during the purge.

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    LizzyGlue

    [79]Dec 15, 2010
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    WitchyWeasel88 wrote:


    I've always believed Morgause is older than Arthur so I doubt this happened during the purge.



    Yes. I believe their birth order is Morgause, then Morgana and finally Arthur. I speculate that Morgause was already born at the time of the great purge (wich celebrated its 20 th anniversary at the start of series 1).

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    boom-moo

    [80]Dec 15, 2010
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    Tankim wrote:
    The question is: When was Morgause smuggled out of Camelot? How old was she?
    Morgause was smuggled out of Camelot as a baby, she says so to Gaius in 2x08 when he is healing her wound. We also know that the bracelet she gave to Morgana bears the mark of the house of Gorlois (whom Morgana thought to be her father), and according to Gaius there is just one person other than Morgana who could have it. Then he confesses having smuggled the baby out of Camelot. All hints to Morgana and Morgause sharing a mother, Vivian, from whom they inherited the bracelet and who apparently was Gorlois' wife.

    Also, Morgause was smuggled before the Great Purge occurred, when Uther was still cool about magic. I can't think of a reason why he would want the baby dead, and we don't know if Uther was the reason why the baby was taken away or why Gaius entrusted her to the big priestess of the Old Religion.
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