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BBC (ended 2012)

Series 4 Speculations

  • Avatar of ACDiNosey

    ACDiNosey

    [81]Dec 15, 2010
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    But then, what were Vivian and Morgause (or just Morgause???) doing in Camelot anyway? And how would that lead to Uther basically "disposing" of the child???
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    boom-moo

    [82]Dec 15, 2010
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    I guess they were living in Camelot. Uther has referred to Gorlois as his best friend, and he was one of his most trusted knights so I take it they were part of Uther's court and lived in the castle.

    We don't know if Uther ordered to dispose of the child, we just know that Gaius smuggled her out of Camelot and that Uther was left to believe that the child had died.
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    okajou8000

    [83]Dec 15, 2010
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    alright, let's take a break and see what we did collect till now (chronologically) : - viviain is gorlois's wife (she is the mother of morgana that believes Gorlois is her father)

    - vivian and gorlois had a baby, Morgause

    - Gaius, for some reasons, smuggled the baby out of Camelot.....why? how? and what did he say to the parents?!!

    - Gorlois is one of Uther's knights, he went to fight, and Uther had an affair with his wife.

    - Morgana came to this world, Gorlois aware of nothing, rose the child as his, till she is 10 yrs old.

    - Morgana is 10 yrs old, Gorlois again went to fight, he died.

    - where is the mother?? is she still alive or did she die before Gorlois??.......Morgause must have met her mother (don't know how many time, maybe once).....i suppose that the priestess told her abt her origins.

    - anyway, Gorlois is dead, we know nothing abt the mother. Uther took Morgana......and what makes Uther to be that sure that Morgana is his child not Gorlois's, maybe he knows something abt Morgause is (maybe) not Gorlois's child......so Gorlois's is sterile.......
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    ACDiNosey

    [84]Dec 15, 2010
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    I don't think we know Gorlois is Morgause's father...
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    boom-moo

    [85]Dec 15, 2010
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    okajou8000 wrote:
    viviain is gorlois's wife (she is the mother of morgana that believes Gorlois is her father)
    We don't know for a fact that Vivian is Gorlois' wife, although that seems to be the case. We also don't know if she knew who had fathered Morgana (Uther or Gorlois) but I guess she did know Morgana was Uther's (but that's me).

    okajou8000 wrote:
    vivian and gorlois had a baby, Morgause
    Again, we don't know this for a fact but it seems to be the case.

    okajou8000 wrote:
    - where is the mother?? is she still alive or did she die before Gorlois??.......Morgause must have met her mother (don't know how many time, maybe once).....i suppose that the priestess told her abt her origins.
    I think Vivian was dead when Gorlois died, otherwise she would have taken care of Morgana instead of Uther. Uther said that Gorlois made him promise that he would take care of Morgana in case something would happen to him, so it sounds like Morgana's mother was out of the picture (either dead or some other randome reason).

    okajou8000 wrote:
    - and what makes Uther to be that sure that Morgana is his child not Gorlois's
    Well, I guess Vivian told him so and he believed her because the maths matched. A woman can be pretty certain of who has fathered their child unless she sleeps with several men at the very same time.
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  • Avatar of Tankim

    Tankim

    [86]Dec 15, 2010
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    As for Gorlois, in the original legend he was the duke of Cornwall and married to Igraine. Uther asked Merlin for help to let Igraine think she is with Gorlois when in fact it was Uther she spent the night with. At the same time Gorlois died in a battle because Uther denied him the force of his army to help Gorlois win the battle.
    In "our" Merlin version, Gorlois and Igraine obviously weren't married but I assume Gorlois was indeed the duke of Cornwall and not Uther's knight but his friend and ally.
    Maybe Vivian lived in Camelot before she got married to Gorlois and that is why Morgause was in Camelot when she was small.
    Perhaps Morgause is the daughter of Vivian and the former king of Camelot.
    If that is the case, she has a good reason to hold a grudge against Uther because he conquered Camelot, and who nows what happened to the former king.
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    LizzyGlue

    [87]Dec 15, 2010
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    Tankim wrote:


    Perhaps Morgause is the daughter of Vivian and the former king of Camelot. If that is the case, she has a good reason to hold a grudge against Uther because he conquered Camelot, and who nows what happened to the former king.


    We all know for sure that Morgause refers to Morgana as "sister" (as far as the current BBC version goes). As for the true parentage of M & M, let us hope that series 4 and 5 answer our questions.


    Otherwise we'll have to write those missing pieces ouselves in the form of "fan fiction"

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    dpebbleson

    [88]Dec 15, 2010
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    If they were celebrating 20 years since the Great Purge in 1.01, that made Arthur 20 years old then. Three seasons after (including the time-gap between S2 and S3), and he should be 24 now. Morgana is probably 26 or 27, so Morgause is near 30. Gaius is around 70 (a lot older than Hunith!), and Merlin should be Arthur's age, or a year or two younger.

    A conundrum!
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    fantasymommy

    [89]Dec 16, 2010
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    So shouldn't season 4 be about building alliances and watching the ground work for "Albion" being made? If Arthur is going to unite the kingdoms wont there need to be a reason ( a common enemy, perhaps?) for them to want to be made as one?



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    boom-moo

    [90]Dec 16, 2010
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    Hmm well, Cenred was one of the kings who didn't meet for the peace treaty in Sweet Dreams and he is out of the picture already. Apparently, the treaty stands and Lord Godwyn is also in good terms with Camelot. I guess that King Odin and King Alined are the ones pretty much in the way of that, and of course the M&M.

    I wonder how Arthur is gonna unite the land the Albion. If it is a merely peace union or a political union as well (which will mean getting rid of all those other kings and ruling over their kingdoms which sounds really weird to me).
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    pcdsa

    [91]Dec 16, 2010
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    Tankim wrote:
    Maybe Vivian lived in Camelot before she got married to Gorlois and that is why Morgause was in Camelot when she was small. Perhaps Morgause is the daughter of Vivian and the former king of Camelot.
    Someone reasoned out before that as Gaius believed Morgause and Morgana were half sisters, they must have the same mother but different father. Gaius thought Morgana was Gorlois' child so Morgause's father must have been different. So maybe she is the daughter of the former king. I don't think we know how long ago Uther conquered Camelot. Maybe it was about 30 years ago because I too believe Morgause is in her 30s so born well before the Great Purge. Vivian must have been married to Gorlois because Morgause's bracelet had the sign from the house of Gorlois. I don't think Morgause met up with her mother, maybe when Vivian gave the baby to Gaius she also gave him the bracelet which was given to the high priestess to pass on to Morgause. Vivian must have had magic to pass onto Morgana and Morgause but it seems no one knew this otherwise Uther would have been suspicious of Morgana. I don't see why Vivian would keep her magic secret before the Great Purge.
    fantasymommy wrote:
    So shouldn't season 4 be about building alliances and watching the ground work for "Albion" being made? If Arthur is going to unite the kingdoms wont there need to be a reason ( a common enemy, perhaps?) for them to want to be made as one?
    I think so too and the Sword in the Stone will decide which king will be the ruler of all...


    I'm also wondering what will happen to Cenred's kingdom is it is now up for grabs with no king or army. Odin is also against Uther. Maybe the kingdoms fight to take over Cenred's and the story of Albion begins that why...

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    boom-moo

    [92]Dec 16, 2010
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    pcdsa wrote:
    I don't think Morgause met up with her mother, maybe when Vivian gave the baby to Gaius she also gave him the bracelet which was given to the high priestess to pass on to Morgause.
    I think so, for the girl to have proof of her real origins.

    pcdsa wrote:
    the Sword in the Stone will decide which king will be the ruler of all...
    That's interesting, a bit unfair to the other kings who have always wanted peace but hey.

    pcdsa wrote:
    Maybe the kingdoms fight to take over Cenred's and the story of Albion begins that why...
    That will violate the peace treaty between them, could be a reason why Camelot, aka Arthur, will end up ruling them all.
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    fantasymommy

    [93]Jan 11, 2011
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    Do you think Gwaine's noble background will come into play in season 4?


    Which kingdom is he from?


    Could he have a conflict there...being a Knight of Camelot but having ties or possibly friends/family in another kingdom?



    Just a passing thought....

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    boom-moo

    [94]Jan 11, 2011
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    I'd like to know more about it, but above all I wish for Uther to know that he was unfair to a nobleman. That, assuming that Uther is eventually back onto his high horse, he was too destroyed at the end of series 3 to care.

    About the conflicting bit, I think knights were able to choose what king to serve regardless of their kingdom of birth. Merlin is loyal to the Pendragons despite he was born (or at least raised) in Cenred's kingdom so I assume knights are just as free to choose. But yeah, the family/friends bit is always a soft spot and a weak link to use/abuse, just as it is for Merlin with his mum.
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    fantasymommy

    [95]Jan 11, 2011
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    boom-moo wrote:
    I'd like to know more about it, but above all I wish for Uther to know that he was unfair to a nobleman. That, assuming that Uther is eventually back onto his high horse, he was too destroyed at the end of series 3 to care.

    About the conflicting bit, I think knights were able to choose what king to serve regardless of their kingdom of birth. Merlin is loyal to the Pendragons despite he was born (or at least raised) in Cenred's kingdom so I assume knights are just as free to choose. But yeah, the family/friends bit is always a soft spot and a weak link to use/abuse, just as it is for Merlin with his mum.


    Do we know that Gwaine's mother is still alive? I don't think he said one way or another...
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    boom-moo

    [96]Jan 11, 2011
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    I don't think it's been clearly stated either.
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    fantasymommy

    [97]Jan 11, 2011
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    hummm..that would be interesting if Camelot ended up at war with the kingdom where Gwain's mother lives...if she is still alive?

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    boom-moo

    [98]Jan 11, 2011
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    Could be. Cenred's kingdom is up for grabs too, maybe we hear about Ealdor again.
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    fantasymommy

    [99]Jan 11, 2011
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    Do we know which kingdom Caerleon is the Lord of? That is who Gwain's father died fighting for...

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    boom-moo

    [100]Jan 11, 2011
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    I don't think we do, Ella.
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