Merlin Forums

BBC (ended 2012)

Series 5 spoilers thread

  • Avatar of boom-moo

    boom-moo

    [121]Apr 3, 2012
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    You can of couse assume whatever makes you happy, I guess we all do to some extent

    Anyway, we are not certain of how long the gap between series 4 and series 5 is gonna be, but the actor playing Mordred can imo portray perfectly well a Mordred in a 10 age range something like from 16 to 25.

    Yes, Mordred was just just a child when we last saw him but assuming he was around 12 in 2x11 and there's at least 1 year gap between s4 and s5 he should be something around 18. He was rather powerful as a kid so I think he is not to be underestimated because of his age as a young man, and the same goes for Aithusa. If he can save a life being a "baby" he might as well take one.
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    ericsprau

    [122]Apr 3, 2012
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    So, a few months between S2 and S3, then a year between S3 and S4, assuming a Season encompasses 6 months that would make Mordred about 14-15, assuming he was 12 before. It'd have to be at least a two year gap to make that work.

    It's Nimueh, this discussion is over 'cause I'm too tired to continue it. Sweet dreams for now!!
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    boom-moo

    [123]Apr 3, 2012
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    Precisely because we can't be certain of how long gaps are or how many months every series covers, 1-2 years up or down are acceptable to me. And ultimately, not that TPTB have ever cared much about continuity. I think the actor chosen could pull out Mordred's new established age just fine
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    Scop

    [124]Apr 3, 2012
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    I took the two statements about a returning character and the twist at the end of season 4 as two separate statements unrelated to each other.


    The returning character being Mordred, and the twist being Athusa healing Morgana. Dosen't say if Athusa is inherently good or evil. Morgana might try to capture him now and rear the dragon on her own, or it might have justinspiredher the same way Arthur's swordinspiredhim to move on to bigger and better things.


    Also, on Mordred. The actor's actual age may be in his 20's, dosen't mean Mordred will be.

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    boom-moo

    [125]Apr 3, 2012
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    Scop wrote:

    The returning character being Mordred

    But how is that featured in the series 4 finale? I'm sorry if I'm taking the spoiler too literally, I just want to understand where everyone's theories come from as I'm not sure about mine.
    Edited on 04/03/2012 9:48am
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  • Avatar of Chayiana

    Chayiana

    [126]Apr 3, 2012
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    Scop wrote:


    I took the two statements about a returning character and the twist at the end of season 4 as two separate statements unrelated to each other.


    The returning character being Mordred, and the twist being Athusa healing Morgana.



    I'm with Scop here. I also think these are two different statements which have to be viewed seperately. Julian Murphy's original quote regarding the end of series 4 and what's to come in series 5 was this:


    "There's a surprising twist at the end of this series that becomes a big part of series five. (*) It's fair to say that a character we've met before returns, an evil character, and I think people can probably guess who that is..."


    (*) I think, here should be an "and", maybe the transcriber of the interview embezzled it.


    IMO these two sentences have nothing to do with each other. And because we really couldn't have guessed the twist with Aithusa (I certainly didn't ^^), the second part of the second sentence wouldn't make any sense if he meant Aithusa with the evil returning character, would it?



    Edited on 04/03/2012 11:08am
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  • Avatar of boom-moo

    boom-moo

    [127]Apr 3, 2012
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    No, it wouldn't. But the article says:

    Co-creator Julian Murphy says the finale also features the return of an evil character. "There's a surprising twist at the end of this season that becomes a big part of season five", he adds.

    Whether the sentences are related or not (I think they aren't) the finale was supposed to feature the return of an evil character. Now, call it bad transcription or purposefully misleading information but the first sentence wasn't met in the episode unless the evil character is Aithusa, right?

    The thing is that both:
    -"It's fair to say that a character we've met before returns, an evil character, and I think people can probably guess who that is..."
    and
    -"The finale also features the return of an evil character"

    They seem to contradict each other since no evil character returned that people could have easily guessed.

    I guess that transcription had a lot to do with it.
    Edited on 04/03/2012 11:39am
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    telytubie

    [128]Apr 3, 2012
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    Scop wrote:

    I took the two statements about a returning character and the twist at the end of season 4 as two separate statements unrelated to each other.



    That's my take as well...... it's a possibility that TPTB may intend for Mordred to return at the end of series 4 but maybe they couldn't get Asa or find a replacement in time so they push that to the premiere of series 5 instead.

    The unexpected twist being Aithusa saving Morgana is my best bet, but I don't remember any hint as yet that Aithusa may be evil. He's not evil nor an enemy to begin with, so it doesn't make sense he'd be a returning enemy.

    I'd rather see Aithusa causing Merlin and Kilgarrah some trouble due to his innocent just like any mischievous kid than to have him turn evil, which'd also overturn everything the dragon has said in 4x04 about the white dragon. I'm not familiar with the red/white dragon legend but wasn't the white dragon symbolised the Saxons while the red dragon the coming of King Arthur in some legend?
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  • Avatar of boom-moo

    boom-moo

    [129]Apr 3, 2012
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    telytubie wrote:
    I'd rather see Aithusa causing Merlin and Kilgarrah some trouble due to his innocent just like any mischievous kid than to have him turn evil, which'd also overturn everything the dragon has said in 4x04 about the white dragon.
    Exactly, turning Aithusa evil would make 4x04 pretty I wonder if that's one of the things TPTB were referring to when they recently said that they wish they would have done some things differently. I think that might be one and Mordred knowing about Merlin being Emrys another.
    telytubie wrote:
    I'm not familiar with the red/white dragon legend but wasn't the white dragon symbolised the Saxons while the red dragon the coming of King Arthur in some legend?
    And they are already fighting the Saxons in series 5...
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    Scop

    [130]Apr 3, 2012
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    Here's a good sum up of the dragon storyhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_Dragon


    Technically, they've done a tower collapsing after a fight over the dragon's egg, so they sort of touched on the Vortigern bit of the legend, as they do. The white dragon dose "hearld" the Saxons, though, who never got a firm toe hold in Wales (hence the red dragon wins -Woo Hoo), it doesn't mean that the white dragon will join the Saxon side. The white dragon could mean it hasinspiredMorgana and becomes her symbol of hope that she makes an emblem out of then goes and seeks help from the Saxons. Or she sees white dragons on the Saxon's shields and puts the two together as a sign that way. But Athusa's got to come into play somehow here as both he and Killgarah are both males, and unless dragons are hermaphrodites, can't really bring back the dragon race on their own. Hence, Athusa has to have another purpose.

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    telytubie

    [131]Apr 3, 2012
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    Actually I've also been thinking that perhaps being saved by a white dragon convinced Morgana (in her twisted mind) that she's doing the right thing so she becomes even more commited and determine to snatch the throne..... that'd indeed play a big part in series 5, though nothing surprising I'd say.
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    Scop

    [132]Apr 3, 2012
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    That's what I was thinking too. Athusa saving Morgana was akin to Arthur pulling the sword from the stone, bolstering both of their resolve that they are on the "right path"

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    Sparklingwater

    [133]Apr 3, 2012
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    Quoting doesn't work for me today. I don't know why. So here is what boom-moo wrote:

    "But the article says: Co-creator Julian Murphy says the finale also features the return of an evil character. "There's a surprising twist at the end of this season that becomes a big part of season five", he adds. Whether the sentences are related or not (I think they aren't) the finale was supposed to feature the return of an evil character. "


    To "quote" myself:


    "Well, maybe Mordred, Morgause or Nimueh or anyone possibly returning sent Aithusa to heal Morgana."

    Just in case the twist and the return of an evil character featured in 4x13 are related. Who knows, maybe they meant Morgana herself or they meant Morgana being the one featuring the evil character because she has been close to Mordred and therefore might need his help. Could be anything. But my guess is that someone sent Aithusa, most likely Mordred. Not as a dragonlord but maybe as someone who simply talked to Aithusa and asked for a favour.

    But actually, as said before, the 2 things might not have anything to do with each other and someone misunderstood the context.

    Mordred would be very easy to guess since he didn't die and his appearances promised his return, aside from the fact that he plays a big part in the legend.

    Boom-moo, I didn't read about TPTB saying they wish they had done some things differently. That's very interesting. Where can I find it?

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    Chayiana

    [134]Apr 3, 2012
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    boom-moo wrote:
    No, it wouldn't. But the article says:


    Co-creator Julian Murphy says the finale also features the return of an evil character. "There's a surprising twist at the end of this season that becomes a big part of season five", he adds.


    I think, it depends to which article you refer. I was refering to this one. And here Julian Murphy didn't say that the finale of series 4 would see the returning of a known evil character, he just answers the question of how series 4 ends and how this will effect the next series. He mentioned two things which have been mixed up somehow (my guess). I really think it heavily depends how you word it.

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    boom-moo

    [135]Apr 3, 2012
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    Chayiana wrote:

    boom-moo wrote:
    No, it wouldn't. But the article says:


    Co-creator Julian Murphy says the finale also features the return of an evil character. "There's a surprising twist at the end of this season that becomes a big part of season five", he adds.


    I think, it depends to which article you refer. I was refering to this one. And here Julian Murphy didn't say that the finale of series 4 would see the returning of a known evil character

    He does in this one My point is not if the sentences are related or not, that's irrelevant to what I'm trying to say. But never mind, I believe it's a transcription thing anyway.
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    ericsprau

    [136]Apr 3, 2012
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    Clearly Julian has trouble with the way he words things (after reading the whole debate in the 4x13 discussion topic about Arthur and Morgana comparing each other to Uther) so I think it's more an error on his part, in that regard. I happen to think the two statements are un-related as well, and so far the theory that Mordred was supposed to appear in the finale but couldn't due to Asa's other work is the most plausible one. That's how I see it anyway.

    As much as I would just die (happily, at that!) to see Nimueh return, I have to be realistic at the same time. Mordred is the most obvious solution here. However, I ALSO see a problem with the theory that he is the one Julian was referring to. The problem is this: Mordred was never specifically designated as an evil character. He was presented in a redeeming light until his final appearance, in which he said Emrys would regret not letting him get away. That doesn't inherently make him evil though.

    That all being said, I loved Mordred as played by Asa. I don't think I can stand behind him anymore if they re-cast him with someone older. It's like when they re-cast Rachel in The Dark Knight. They didn't even choose an actress that looked SIMILAR to Katie Holmes, they just picked Maggie Gyllenhaal because suddenly they had a huge budget and could afford someone better. It almost made me glad they killed Rachel off, because it was basically character assassination. I digress, though.

    Ultimately I know they can't have Asa anymore. He is busy with a lot of other work and has already stated he won't be available to film for Merlin, so to me the writers are taking the cop-out route and advancing the story several years in time just so they can re-cast him with an older actor. It's rubbish and it pisses me off. If they really wanted Asa that badly, they would find a way to make it work.
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    boom-moo

    [137]Apr 4, 2012
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    I think TPTB knew they couldn't count on Asa long ago. Anyway...
    ericsprau wrote:
    That all being said, I loved Mordred as played by Asa. I don't think I can stand behind him anymore if they re-cast him with someone older.
    -Alexander Vlahos, a 23 years old Welsh actor has been cast to play Mordred in series 5 Source and Source.
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    Sparklingwater

    [138]Apr 4, 2012
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    boom-moo wrote:
    I wonder if that's one of the things TPTB were referring to when they recently said that they wish they would have done some things differently.


    Have to ask again - where can this article or interview be found?

    Edited on 04/04/2012 3:11am
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    boom-moo

    [139]Apr 4, 2012
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    -(April 3rd) Snow is playing merry hell with our fake snow.
    -(April 3rd) Mmm, problem, How to get snarling wolf leaping at camera.....I know, tie a chicken leg to the end of the lens....brilliant.
    -(April 2nd) Have just been howling with the wolves.
    -(April 1st) Off to play with magic wolves for 'merlin' in Wales tomorrow. Very exciting.
    Source.
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    IceDog96

    [140]Apr 4, 2012
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    But one of the spoilers, I think is a red herring - for Mr Vlahos, as an example, we see him in his typical green druid cloak, if M&M are supposed to be teaming up, how does that fit with Katie's description of medival cotoure?
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