Naruto: A Request to Viz

masterofaeons
[1]Jan 6, 2009
member since: 05/12/04
level: 15
rank: Ginsu Knife
posts: 4,585
Hi, everyone. If you go to the Viz website, you can find "contact" in the first scrolling menu with this address:
Mailing Address:
VIZ Media, LLC
P.O. BOX 77010
San Francisco, CA 94107
Though their work on the Naruto subs seems decent at the very least, it will soon be the only form of the show we will see. This means there will no longer be karaoke subs for the intro and endings nor will there be any attempt to translate the omakes (ending sequences that exist outside of the story). As a fan of anime in general, I believe that both of these elements help enhance the anime experience and after watching Shippuden, I would hate to see this erased from the series and not available in the future episodes. Please grab a pen and write Viz media to applaud their efforts to proliferate legal anime quickly and professionally, but ask them to also include these two vital components of the translation. If you're lazy, just copy the followin.

Attention Naruto Translation Department:
To Whom It May Concern:
Thank you for providing subtitles to Naruto Shippuden! We, the fans at TV.com applaud your actions and will continue to support your product. We however feel that while your translations are great, we would request a fuller experience of the series. Fansubbing coalitions have long provided illegal copies of this series and have given not only the show, but translations of the introduction music video, the ending music video and the omake portions that air after the credits. We feel that these are integral pieces of the Naruto world and are disappointed by their absence.
Please add translations to these segments as we, the fans, feel that this is the way we choose to veiw anime: uncut and intact. We thank you for this great service and will look forward to many more great anime translations from Viz Media.
Thank you,
(Your Name)

I feel that if we can get enough of our voices heard, Viz will continue to evolve to meet our needs. If a moderator could sticky this so that all could participate in this, I would very much appreciate it.
You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
anthonykomonski
[2]Jan 8, 2009
member since: 09/15/06
level: 34
rank: Wardrobe Malfunction
posts: 5,351
It doesn't matter if we say anything to Viz about anything related to Naruto. In the end, Viz will ignore us because we are extreme fans of the show.
You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
masterofaeons
[3]Jan 8, 2009
member since: 05/12/04
level: 15
rank: Ginsu Knife
posts: 4,585
Well, that's a depressing way to state it. Let's instead donate money to Funimation and have them steal the license.
You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
mitarashianko
[4]Jan 8, 2009
member since: 02/10/07
level: 14
rank: Autobot
posts: 2,469
masterofaeons wrote:

Well, that's a depressing way to state it. Let's instead donate money to Funimation and have them steal the license.

Well, like it not if you give up hope or don't make an attempt NOTHING will be accomplished! I'd sooner fail than quit!
You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
masterofaeons
[5]Jan 8, 2009
member since: 05/12/04
level: 15
rank: Ginsu Knife
posts: 4,585
I submitted mine. I would hope that enough people care about the way translation will be handled from this point on to at least try. Look at the facts: Viz just caved to the will of the fans and emulated the example of fansubbing groups. That means that they ARE listening. Also, they are scared of being unnecessary. I guarantee you that if you replace the export of any major company and do it better and make it more accessible, you will receive a C&D letter and failing that, you will force their hand to up the ante. If no one says anything, they win. They continue on and hit a plateau of quality. Want to know why dubs suck? Because no one complains about it. Want to know why One Piece isn't treated with the same respect as Naruto? Because you buy Naruto and not One Piece.

Businesses work by catering to what people say. Read the TV.com mission statement. People are watching us. We are the voice of the fans and unless you tell them what you think, no one will ever give you what you want.

Thank you for your words Mitarashianko.
You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
narutorox3
[6]Jan 8, 2009
member since: 11/09/08
level: 9
rank: Door Number 2
posts: 1,138
Meh I'll send the letter tomorrow when I have time.
You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
masterofaeons
[7]Jan 8, 2009
member since: 05/12/04
level: 15
rank: Ginsu Knife
posts: 4,585
Ah, found a way to email them too.
http://www.viz.com/about/contact/contact.php
You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
Dark_Tundra01
[8]Jan 8, 2009
member since: 01/09/09
level: 3
rank: Soup Nazi
posts: 123
Nobody complains about dubs? What do you mean? There are tons of people who complain about dubs, some even saying that there's no such thing as a good dub and that they all suck.

I honestly don't take most dub bashers seriously because they don't give honest criticism, but rather they mindlessly bash without logic or reason to where I can't help but laugh at what they're saying.

Only time I really ever agree that a dub sucks is if it's done by 4Kids because they are honestly a horrible company. They change characters' names, they turn serious things laughable, they change plots, they exclude death in all forms, and they censor way more than what is required by the law.

No other company that dubs anime has ever done this to my knowledge. Not Viz Media. Not Funimation. Not Bandai. Not ADV Films. Not Sony.

They've only ever censored what's required by the law and even then, they release uncut versions of their dubs on DVD where it's not censored at all.

Anyways, I'm getting way off-topic and people most likely don't care about any of the things I've said above.

On-topic, I honestly prefer dubs, and even collect uncut ones, over subs, but I do sympathize with sub fans and I'll send my letter sometime tomorrow to help pitch in.

In other words, you have my support.
You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
masterofaeons
[9]Jan 8, 2009
member since: 05/12/04
level: 15
rank: Ginsu Knife
posts: 4,585
Watching the 4Kids treatment of One Piece and going through the 95 dub of the Original Dragon Ball really made me change my views on the entire translation process. I used to have no ear for voice acting until I started comparing both languages during Fullmetal Alchemist and decided that 85% of American Voice actors are useless. Watching the difference between Naruto's dub and the more literal fansubs disappointed me somewhat especially when "Loopy Fist" came up. Provided that there is a decent company at the helm (Funimation is my hero) the dubs don't even bug me anymore.

Most DVD collections I get have both the dub and sub available and I am happy to rewatch a series in English (for the sake of my family), but prefer a first viewing with subtitles. The acting tends to be better and I like to note the degree that things are edited (such as puns removed, dialogue changed and scenes entirely rewritten).

If you want a dub that just threw the script in the trash and started adlibbing, compare Sailor Moon to its American dub. They go from talking about the events of the news to a discussing the fact that it's someone's anniversary. I half expect Drew Carey to start tossing out actions and film styles for them to incorporate in their skit.
You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
Dark_Tundra01
[10]Jan 8, 2009
member since: 01/09/09
level: 3
rank: Soup Nazi
posts: 123
Yeah. I can't stand anime like that where they change sentences completely to where the original context is gone.

As for American VAs, I'm not really a picky person, so I've never really been able to disapprove anyone's voice-acting skills. In fact, most sound natural to me. It could be because I don't compare them to the subs, but I just let most dubs be their own thing, so I don't really care to compare them.

I like all dubbing companies that AREN'T the horrible 4Kids, but my top 3 are Viz, Funimation, and Bandai.

With the Naruto dub, I agree that loopy fist was over the top, which is why I'm glad that they changed it back to Drunken Fist in the uncut and uncensored version.

I only collect DVDs for anime when they're uncut anyway, but I know most people are talking about the TV versions.

Yeah. I always watch subs the first time around, but I usually stick to the uncut dub afterwards if they have my personal approval.
You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
anthonykomonski
[11]Jan 9, 2009
member since: 09/15/06
level: 34
rank: Wardrobe Malfunction
posts: 5,351
masterofaeons wrote:

Well, that's a depressing way to state it. Let's instead donate money to Funimation and have them steal the license.

The reason WHY I said it was because most people who send e-mails to the dubbing/broadcasting companies are fans and or haters. After a while, the e-mails start to irritate them, so they wouldn't care about what we would say anyways.

I'm not trying to be negative or anything, but it's the truth.
You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
masterofaeons
[12]Jan 9, 2009
member since: 05/12/04
level: 15
rank: Ginsu Knife
posts: 4,585
I worked at a company where most days all I did was listen to messages. It was annoying, there was a lot of similar messages (to the point that they seldom deviated from three categories: "Get me off your worthless mailing list", "I love you guys, put me on your mailing list" and "Do you have a mailing list?") Despite how annoying the entire process felt, I had to summarize each and file them as digital complaints to be tallied.

You are correct, Tony K. It's aggravating as heck, but not to the company. One guy faces all of that stress. At the end of the day when the janitor wipes his gore from the wall and ceiling, the stress is forgotten and each of those gripes is now an emotionless statistic. These numbers are what the companies see.

12000 people love our services
15000 wish we delivered to Australia
19 people asked for Mexico delivery.

The next month, they ship to Australia. The country of Mexico (who were too fatalistic and depressive to email en masse) go without.

My point is that any company that has any method of contact ends up listening to its customers sooner or later. You really can't say that they'll ignore you. They only ignore you if you let your stances slide.
You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
fluffman4
[13]Jan 9, 2009
member since: 06/19/05
level: 19
rank: Fall Guy
posts: 4,870
Why don't we just support fan-subbing groups? It seems like they're better at doing their work than Viz is.
You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
jah1415
[14]Jan 9, 2009
member since: 12/19/07
level: 12
rank: Evil Bert
posts: 495
fluffman4 wrote:

Why don't we just support fan-subbing groups? It seems like they're better at doing their work than Viz is.
and what would that do? your not doing anything for the show.
You must be registered and logged in to post a message.

fluffman4

[15]Jan 9, 2009

member since: 06/19/05
level: 19
rank: Fall Guy
posts: 4,870

jah1415 wrote:

fluffman4 wrote:

Why don't we just support fan-subbing groups? It seems like they're better at doing their work than Viz is.

and what would that do? your not doing anything for the show.

And what does supporting Viz do?

These fan-groups have extreme passion to the show, probably exceeding that of Viz, and besides, they translate their intros already

You must be registered and logged in to post a message.

masterofaeons

[16]Jan 9, 2009

member since: 05/12/04
level: 15
rank: Ginsu Knife
posts: 4,585

fluffman4 wrote:

jah1415 wrote:

fluffman4 wrote:

Why don't we just support fan-subbing groups? It seems like they're better at doing their work than Viz is.

and what would that do? your not doing anything for the show.

And what does supporting Viz do?

These fan-groups have extreme passion to the show, probably exceeding that of Viz, and besides, they translate their intros already

The point is that illegal routes should not have to be the only option for us to enjoy a quality product. If someone makes what they believe is a quality product and it is our "only" option (I'm not ignorant, I know that this will not stop other fansubbing groups), then it is up to us to tell them where they fail.

In an example, you set up a lemonade stand because you see that people are hot and it is a worthwhile service for the location. However, you forget entirely to add sugar. Though people can steal your lemonade and add their own sugar, wouldn't the right thing for your consumers be to tell you "Add sugar, n00b," and then purchase your lemonade once you accommodate their needs?

Despite what shiny genjustsu you want to believe, Viz media is a company and they do not know or care about the series they translate. None of their management actually watches Naruto or whatever else they own. I don't expect them to have any attachment to the characters or world of the series they translate and I also do not expect them to respect the material. They do not subtitle the omake portions and intro videos because they are negligible. Anyone unfamiliar with the Japanese equivalent will not miss them. That's why we have to tell them, to put it bluntly, how to do their job. If they were a coalition of fans as many online subbing groups tend to be, this wouldn't be an issue. I'm sure we can all agree that it is not the case.

You must be registered and logged in to post a message.

Dark_Tundra01

[17]Jan 9, 2009

member since: 01/09/09
level: 3
rank: Soup Nazi
posts: 123

masterofaeons wrote:

None of their management actually watches Naruto or whatever else they own. I don't expect them to have any attachment to the characters or world of the series they translate and I also do not expect them to respect the material.

Actually, that's not entirely true.

The Viz employee who directs the dub is a vivid manga reader and has even said that she's a big fan of the series in general.

Maybe most don't care, but not all.

You must be registered and logged in to post a message.

masterofaeons
[18]Jan 9, 2009
member since: 05/12/04
level: 15
rank: Ginsu Knife
posts: 4,585
Okay, fine. That was just a generalization. I'll be fair and say that 5 in the company tops know the current plot. Tops.
You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
Dark_Tundra01
[19]Jan 9, 2009
member since: 01/09/09
level: 3
rank: Soup Nazi
posts: 123
Sorry about that. I feel kinda bad when I'm too strict with certain details.
You must be registered and logged in to post a message.

jah1415

[20]Jan 10, 2009

member since: 12/19/07
level: 12
rank: Evil Bert
posts: 495

masterofaeons wrote:

fluffman4 wrote:

jah1415 wrote:

fluffman4 wrote:

Why don't we just support fan-subbing groups? It seems like they're better at doing their work than Viz is.

and what would that do? your not doing anything for the show.

And what does supporting Viz do? These fan-groups have extreme passion to the show, probably exceeding that of Viz, and besides, they translate their intros already

The point is that illegal routes should not have to be the only option for us to enjoy a quality product. If someone makes what they believe is a quality product and it is our "only" option (I'm not ignorant, I know that this will not stop other fansubbing groups), then it is up to us to tell them where they fail. In an example, you set up a lemonade stand because you see that people are hot and it is a worthwhile service for the location. However, you forget entirely to add sugar. Though people can steal your lemonade and add their own sugar, wouldn't the right thing for your consumers be to tell you "Add sugar, n00b," and then purchase your lemonade once you accommodate their needs? Despite what shiny genjustsu you want to believe, Viz media is a company and they do not know or care about the series they translate. None of their management actually watches Naruto or whatever else they own. I don't expect them to have any attachment to the characters or world of the series they translate and I also do not expect them to respect the material. They do not subtitle the omake portions and intro videos because they are negligible. Anyone unfamiliar with the Japanese equivalent will not miss them. That's why we have to tell them, to put it bluntly, how to do their job. If they were a coalition of fans as many online subbing groups tend to be, this wouldn't be an issue. I'm sure we can all agree that it is not the case.

okay but your not supporting viz but the company's that make the show. viz and tv tokyo's are the subs are the same. and how do you know they don't watch the show. the voice director of the dub even said she was a fan before she was hired.

Edited on 01/10/2009 9:16am

You must be registered and logged in to post a message.

Naruto Forums: A Request to Viz