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TV Tokyo (ended 2007)

is tobi really obito ? ( SPOILERS )

  • Avatar of diaz89

    diaz89

    [201]Aug 16, 2006
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    Fallout_Girl wrote:
    terrabreak13 wrote:

    As you probably already know I also believe Tobi is Obito. Another point made earlier that was overlooked is the design of Tobi's mask:

    1) Why is it that the swirls in his mask are directing you to his eyes?

    It would appear to me that his eye is used for some sort of jutsu. We have only seen 2 bloodline limits that use eyes so a sharingan is a damn good guess. The swirls have to mean something. The only other masks we have seen are like ANBU masks. This mask would almost indicate that he was capable of Kaleidoscope.

    2) Why does he only have one eye and a right one at that?

    It is an undeniable fact that if Obito was alive he would only have a right eye.

    3) Why does he need a mask in the first place?

    We can all understand why ANBU members have to hide their identities but why would Tobi hide his identity? If Obito was alive he would have a major scar over his left eye and his face would probably be disfigured. Thats a good reason to wear a mask. Even Kakashi hides his scar.

    The biggest retorts I've seen is that "we saw him die", "why would akatsuki revive him?" and "he was a good guy". It's not inconcievable that he could survive (Gaara literally died). His body didn't have to necessarily be rivived by Akatsuki anyone could have done it. And finally, yes he was a good guy but ninjas defect. If ninjas didn't defect we wouldn't have a story in the first place. Sasuke could have been considered as a good guy risking his life for his friends. But now he wouldn't hesitate to kill them.

    I agree that it's possible for Tobi to be Obito. However, why would anyone even bother taking the time to revive him? There are many possible answers to that, but none of them (IMO) would make a good storyline. It seems to me that Obito is better off dead, because if he was mysteriously ressurected, it wouldn't be as big of a deal when people died. People would just think, "Oh sure, it says he's dead now, but he'll probably be ressurected...whatever..." It just wouln't be the same if every other character who died wasa brought back again.
    I dont know but kishimoto is a good writer and could definitly work that in the story, just cuz you cant think of a good way to put that in the story doesnt meen kishi cant work that into the story

    Edited on 08/16/2006 7:32pm
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    Galaxia_Kirby

    [202]Aug 16, 2006
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    [This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
    Edited on 08/16/2006 8:13pm
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  • Avatar of Galaxia_Kirby

    Galaxia_Kirby

    [203]Aug 16, 2006
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    diaz89 wrote:
    Fallout_Girl wrote:
    terrabreak13 wrote:

    As you probably already know I also believe Tobi is Obito. Another point made earlier that was overlooked is the design of Tobi's mask:

    1) Why is it that the swirls in his mask are directing you to his eyes?

    It would appear to me that his eye is used for some sort of jutsu. We have only seen 2 bloodline limits that use eyes so a sharingan is a damn good guess. The swirls have to mean something. The only other masks we have seen are like ANBU masks. This mask would almost indicate that he was capable of Kaleidoscope.

    2) Why does he only have one eye and a right one at that?

    It is an undeniable fact that if Obito was alive he would only have a right eye.

    3) Why does he need a mask in the first place?

    We can all understand why ANBU members have to hide their identities but why would Tobi hide his identity? If Obito was alive he would have a major scar over his left eye and his face would probably be disfigured. Thats a good reason to wear a mask. Even Kakashi hides his scar.

    The biggest retorts I've seen is that "we saw him die", "why would akatsuki revive him?" and "he was a good guy". It's not inconcievable that he could survive (Gaara literally died). His body didn't have to necessarily be rivived by Akatsuki anyone could have done it. And finally, yes he was a good guy but ninjas defect. If ninjas didn't defect we wouldn't have a story in the first place. Sasuke could have been considered as a good guy risking his life for his friends. But now he wouldn't hesitate to kill them.

    I agree that it's possible for Tobi to be Obito. However, why would anyone even bother taking the time to revive him? There are many possible answers to that, but none of them (IMO) would make a good storyline. It seems to me that Obito is better off dead, because if he was mysteriously ressurected, it wouldn't be as big of a deal when people died. People would just think, "Oh sure, it says he's dead now, but he'll probably be ressurected...whatever..." It just wouln't be the same if every other character who died wasa brought back again.
    I dont know but kishimoto is a good writer and could definitly work that in the story, just cuz you cant think of a good way to put that in the story doesnt meen kishi cant work that into the story



    Kishimoto can't please everyone. Obviously, the flow of the Naruto story itself is Kishimoto's opinion entirely. So he might reckon that some plot twists are wicked but some might think "Oh... how lame."

    I don't care if Obito had the best reason to come back to life I'll still be disappointed because resurrecting characters that are totally assumed to be dead is overdone and cheap.
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    terrabreak13

    [204]Aug 17, 2006
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    Fallout_Girl wrote:

     I agree that it's possible for Tobi to be Obito. However, why would anyone even bother taking the time to revive him? There are many possible answers to that, but none of them (IMO) would make a good storyline. It seems to me that Obito is better off dead, because if he was mysteriously ressurected, it wouldn't be as big of a deal when people died. People would just think, "Oh sure, it says he's dead now, but he'll probably be ressurected...whatever..." It just wouln't be the same if every other character who died wasa brought back again.

    There are always good ways to bring back characters without being cheap. If you look at DBZ as an example they brought back Freeza when Trunks arrived and showed us how much more powerful the Saiyans have become. I think Akira Toriyama does this with most of the villains in DBZ. He brings them back then waste them really quick to show how much more powerful the Saiyans got. And it's definitely not cheap.

    In the case of Naruto I think having more Akatsuki members that have ties with Konoha can greatly impact the story. So far Itachi is the only member that's related to Konoha in anyway. It may be wishful thinking but I think there is a lot more that we can learn about Obito. Bringing him back as Tobi isn't as bad as you guys make it. I think it would be more cheap if he was put there just for comic relief.

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    Fallout_Girl

    [205]Aug 17, 2006
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    Well, lke Galaxia_Kirby said, Kishimoto can't please everybody. We'll just have to wait and see...
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  • Avatar of diaz89

    diaz89

    [206]Aug 18, 2006
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    terrabreak13 wrote:
    Fallout_Girl wrote:

     I agree that it's possible for Tobi to be Obito. However, why would anyone even bother taking the time to revive him? There are many possible answers to that, but none of them (IMO) would make a good storyline. It seems to me that Obito is better off dead, because if he was mysteriously ressurected, it wouldn't be as big of a deal when people died. People would just think, "Oh sure, it says he's dead now, but he'll probably be ressurected...whatever..." It just wouln't be the same if every other character who died wasa brought back again.

    There are always good ways to bring back characters without being cheap. If you look at DBZ as an example they brought back Freeza when Trunks arrived and showed us how much more powerful the Saiyans have become. I think Akira Toriyama does this with most of the villains in DBZ. He brings them back then waste them really quick to show how much more powerful the Saiyans got. And it's definitely not cheap.

    In the case of Naruto I think having more Akatsuki members that have ties with Konoha can greatly impact the story. So far Itachi is the only member that's related to Konoha in anyway. It may be wishful thinking but I think there is a lot more that we can learn about Obito. Bringing him back as Tobi isn't as bad as you guys make it. I think it would be more cheap if he was put there just for comic relief.

    yea and he said he was a big fan of dragonball z so he must like the idea of bringing bak ppl that r supposed to be dead
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  • Avatar of Galaxia_Kirby

    Galaxia_Kirby

    [207]Aug 19, 2006
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    Just because you are a fan of something doesn't mean you have mimic its every quality. Kishimoto has done most of the themes and characters originally so far, with very small "DBZ-like" stuff, like the Chakra whirling around people is similar to some scenes I saw in DBZ...

    Like I said, he cannot please everyone, so whatever will be, will be. Comic relief isn't completely cheap- it's a good break from the huge seriousness.
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  • Avatar of niceguyposer

    niceguyposer

    [208]Aug 24, 2006
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    I became so exasperated at the stubborness of diaz89 that i created a tv.com account just to refute one of his justifications that his theories are correct. The reason Kishimoto didn't show us Obito's body is that this is an anime/manga series for children/young adults. Kishimoto probably wouldn't want to expose his young audience to the image of a body half-mangled by the onslaught of many sharp, jagged rocks. I don't think any audience should have to see that just to prove that Obito is, in fact, dead. Also, the sight of his body would ruin the aesthetic beauty of his sacrifice for Kakashi. And, diaz89, don't attempt to refute MY theory by arguing that Kishimoto allows the depiction of blood and death in his works because the Japanese media's restrictions regarding violence are much more lenient than those of the American media. Well, that's my two cents. Add 48 of your own and take a bus back to Ignorancetown
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  • Avatar of diaz89

    diaz89

    [209]Aug 24, 2006
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    niceguyposer wrote:
    I became so exasperated at the stubborness of diaz89 that i created a tv.com account just to refute one of his justifications that his theories are correct. The reason Kishimoto didn't show us Obito's body is that this is an anime/manga series for children/young adults. Kishimoto probably wouldn't want to expose his young audience to the image of a body half-mangled by the onslaught of many sharp, jagged rocks. I don't think any audience should have to see that just to prove that Obito is, in fact, dead. Also, the sight of his body would ruin the aesthetic beauty of his sacrifice for Kakashi. And, diaz89, don't attempt to refute MY theory by arguing that Kishimoto allows the depiction of blood and death in his works because the Japanese media's restrictions regarding violence are much more lenient than those of the American media. Well, that's my two cents. Add 48 of your own and take a bus back to Ignorancetown
    how is that to violent?? they showed zabuza get stabbed like 50 times and have the swords sticking out his body and they show sasuke put his hand threw narutos body. they also show kakshi rip off diedara's arm. they show kakashi put his arm threw haku and they show sasuke break narutos neck and you think showing a dead body is to violent. you have NO evidence saying he is dead ...obito is tobi
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  • Avatar of niceguyposer

    niceguyposer

    [210]Aug 24, 2006
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    Simmer down. It's not healthy to get so worked up over a cartoon. First off, Zabuza was impaled six times, and, yes, I am aware of your use of hyperbole. Second, didn't I tell you it was futile to argue my logic? Image of ninja after death by rock avalanche is much more gruesome than image of ninja after death by stabbing. I would also brush up on my obervation skills if I were you. My other argument was that the depiction of his mutilated body would undermine the beauty of his sacrificial death. And until Kishimoto unmasks Tobi or has him say outright "I am Obito", one cannot make such statements as "obito IS tobi". Obito is assumed to be dead. And why would he be resurrected? At the time, there was an entire clan of Uchihas, all of whom, I can safely say, had functional right sides. (sigh) Someone back me up here.
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    diaz89

    [211]Aug 24, 2006
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    niceguyposer wrote:
    Simmer down. It's not healthy to get so worked up over a cartoon. First off, Zabuza was impaled six times, and, yes, I am aware of your use of hyperbole. Second, didn't I tell you it was futile to argue my logic? Image of ninja after death by rock avalanche is much more gruesome than image of ninja after death by stabbing. I would also brush up on my obervation skills if I were you. My other argument was that the depiction of his mutilated body would undermine the beauty of his sacrificial death. And until Kishimoto unmasks Tobi or has him say outright "I am Obito", one cannot make such statements as "obito IS tobi". Obito is assumed to be dead. And why would he be resurrected? At the time, there was an entire clan of Uchihas, all of whom, I can safely say, had functional right sides. (sigh) Someone back me up here.
    all that buety crap that u r talking about is YOUR opinion and you thinking it would be to violent to show his body is Your opinion. those r not facts and you dont know if obitos sharingan was destroyed.....prove it....didnt think so, evrey thing you are saying is an opinion and none are facts so bsicly you havent made that much of an argument
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  • Avatar of niceguyposer

    niceguyposer

    [212]Aug 24, 2006
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    Oh really? Just as it's YOUR opinion that Tobi is Obito? Just as it's YOUR opinion that Obito somehow survived an otherwise fatal incident? Just as it's YOUR opinion that Obito would for some reason become a traitor to Konoha? I need not continue. Your argument is no more factual than mine. There is a distinction between fact and opinion, and your argument is STRICTLY opinion, as is mine. I'm not discarding the theory that Tobi could be Obito - I'm merely showing you the holes in your logic. It would be an unexpected plot twist, but one cannot yet present any CONCRETE evidence that Tobi is Obito.
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    Galaxia_Kirby

    [213]Aug 25, 2006
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    niceguyposer wrote:
    Oh really? Just as it's YOUR opinion that Tobi is Obito? Just as it's YOUR opinion that Obito somehow survived an otherwise fatal incident? Just as it's YOUR opinion that Obito would for some reason become a traitor to Konoha? I need not continue. Your argument is no more factual than mine. There is a distinction between fact and opinion, and your argument is STRICTLY opinion, as is mine. I'm not discarding the theory that Tobi could be Obito - I'm merely showing you the holes in your logic. It would be an unexpected plot twist, but one cannot yet present any CONCRETE evidence that Tobi is Obito.


    I almost completely agree.

    I'm sorry diaz89, but I will have to back up niceguyposer, because he DOES make some valid points... you made one, but he made about four. I've always laughed at the idea how Obito is Tobi (and vice-versa) because it *sighs* just seems very... dumb. It's very difficult to believe that someone getting crushed under a rock would live. Furthermore, there is no point in resurrecting a mediocore, Sharingan-less Uchiha. I respect your opinion and hwo you stand your ground about it, but please stop saying "Tobi is Obito" all the time. Instead, create some new arguments or rebuttle the anti-tobi-is-obito.
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  • Avatar of niceguyposer

    niceguyposer

    [214]Aug 25, 2006
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    Whew. 'Bout time I got some backup. Like I said, the entire Tobi=Obito argument is strictly speculation. Diaz89, you once said that Kishimoto is a good writer and would be able to explain how Obito would be resurrected as Tobi. Introducing a character who resembles a deceased character with the intention of toying with readers' minds sounds like something a good writer would do. Also, consider this: even though Orochimaru used Edo Tensei to revive the First and Second Hokages, things returned to the status quo since they were just killed again by the Third Hokage.
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    Galaxia_Kirby

    [215]Aug 26, 2006
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    Just say if Orochimaru DID revive Obito with that method, Obito will have to renew that every three years... that sounds like a hassle. And you'd think Akatsuki would notice if Tobi had links with Orochimaru. In order to gain in-and-out access of that jutsu, you would have to be useful to Orochimaru in some way. How can Tobi/Obito be useful? And what would've been Orochimaru's purpose to revive Obito from the start, anyway?

    diaz89, you seem to not be able to prove it and if you do so there are holes in your theory.
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    diaz89

    [216]Aug 26, 2006
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    Galaxia_Kirby wrote:
    Just say if Orochimaru DID revive Obito with that method, Obito will have to renew that every three years... that sounds like a hassle. And you'd think Akatsuki would notice if Tobi had links with Orochimaru. In order to gain in-and-out access of that jutsu, you would have to be useful to Orochimaru in some way. How can Tobi/Obito be useful? And what would've been Orochimaru's purpose to revive Obito from the start, anyway?

    diaz89, you seem to not be able to prove it and if you do so there are holes in your theory.
    you dont even know if he died? kishimoto could work it into the story
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    Fallout_Girl

    [217]Aug 26, 2006
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    Let's just wait and see, shall we?
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    talon4001

    [218]Aug 26, 2006
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    first off let me say I don't think that tobi is Obito, but I like debates, so how many of the characters would die if they had rocks fall on them, definatly not Naruto or Sakura, and he says he doesn't have feeling in his right side, not anything about his other eye being destroyed.
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    Galaxia_Kirby

    [219]Aug 27, 2006
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    Fallout_Girl wrote:
    Let's just wait and see, shall we?


    yeah, agreed
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    Betaflame

    [220]Aug 29, 2006
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    I'm all for waiting to see, but I'm also a newbie to Naruto universe. came into things after Cartoon Network started airing them. i downloaded all the Manga and most of the Anime. and i never put Tobi=Obito together until i read this tread today. and i can see how it makes sence and see how they might twist it into the story. As obito lay dieing crushed under a rocks the ANBU special forces would be responcible for retrieving the body so that it could not be exumed and studied (as per what kakashi said when first fighting Zabuza and Haku's first appearance). At the time Itachi would have been on the special forces. and during the Sasuke retrieval arc during a flashback we hear Itachi say that if Sasuke obtains the Mangekyo Sharigan (sp?) then that would be 3 people who can learn it. Later Itachi tells Kakashi that since he is not of Uchiha blood he cannot use the Mangekyo. So when itachi told sasuke about 3 people being able to learn it he ment 3 uchihas. after killing everyone except sasuke he still knew of one other Living person who had the ability to learn to use the mangekyo so maybe as a special forces ANBU he retrived Obito and took his body, badly damaged yet not beyond repair. And put a jutsu on him making him loyal to Akatsuki like Sasori supposedly did to Kabuto before orochimaru removed it. That would explain why Tobi seems so much like obito and yet is loyal to Akatsuki. We know orochimaru and kabuto both preformed experiments on bodies. maybe tobi is the 3rd Uchiha that Itachi was talking about when he said 3.

    wow. sorry for the long post. can't wait to see how Tobi evolves as a character tho.
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