NCIS: Los Angeles Forums

Tuesday 9:00 PM on CBSIn Season

Kill off Sam, Kensi, and Eric

  • Avatar of zurimov

    zurimov

    [1]Dec 16, 2010
    • member since: 06/13/08
    • level: 9
    • rank: Door Number 2
    • posts: 34

    I know I will get a lot of dislike for this, but please take your time to finish reading first, like I took mine to put out my thoughts here.


    Let's face it. LL Cool J is chosen because he is famous, not because he is a standout actor or the writers actually have plans for him. Tell me at least three other adjectives that you can describe him besides "big", "black", or "brave". Those adjectives are pretty much what Sam is, which is not good at all, because that makes him a mere stock action sidekick hero to G. Compare him to Tony in the original. He is a capable gunfighter, epic prankster, funny womanizer, and, most of all, unbeatable annoyer. Only Tony can be annoying enough that the head of Mossad unwittingly leaks his own plan--while Eli was the one who interrogates him! What can Sam do? Fight? Well, so can G, Kensi, and Deeks, yes?


    And Daniela Ruah's character. Kensi. She has no depth. Just like Sam, she is the token action girl every show needs to have nowadays. Why we love Ziva David? Because she is ex-Mossad assassin. Because she continuously mangles American idioms. Because she drives like crazy that even his father is scared. Because she dares to face the invincible Gibbs, match Tony's funny but witty charm, befriend the much-hazed McGee, and win Abby's trust. What is it in Kensi that besides kicking people's butt we still want to watch her? Her relationship with Deeks? Well, you see, their lines after Deeks saves him in Absolution: K: I need to pee. D: You already did. What! That is classless.


    And Eric. All he's doing is being a tech geek. Not that it's bad, but compare him to Abby. That hyperactive Gothic girl follows absolutely no dress codes whatsoever, is addicted to caffeine drinks which would have killed her heart right now, and ignores all common etiquettes like blasting her music and hugging people around. But she's still in! Why? Because she's so good at what she's doing and we viewers love her for her freakiness! Besides wearing hawaii shirt, putting his feet on the table, and throwing failed dry humor, Eric is nobody to miss. Much less that new character, Nell Jones, ohh...we don't need more characters, we need less!


    The argument rests.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of lynna12000

    lynna12000

    [2]Dec 17, 2010
    • member since: 01/19/08
    • level: 21
    • rank: Snagglepuss
    • posts: 2,436
    zurimov wrote:

    I know I will get a lot of dislike for this, but please take your time to finish reading first, like I took mine to put out my thoughts here.


    Let's face it. LL Cool J is chosen because he is famous, not because he is a standout actor or the writers actually have plans for him. Tell me at least three other adjectives that you can describe him besides "big", "black", or "brave". Those adjectives are pretty much what Sam is, which is not good at all, because that makes him a mere stock action sidekick hero to G. Compare him to Tony in the original. He is a capable gunfighter, epic prankster, funny womanizer, and, most of all, unbeatable annoyer. Only Tony can be annoying enough that the head of Mossad unwittingly leaks his own plan--while Eli was the one who interrogates him! What can Sam do? Fight? Well, so can G, Kensi, and Deeks, yes?


    And Daniela Ruah's character. Kensi. She has no depth. Just like Sam, she is the token action girl every show needs to have nowadays. Why we love Ziva David? Because she is ex-Mossad assassin. Because she continuously mangles American idioms. Because she drives like crazy that even his father is scared. Because she dares to face the invincible Gibbs, match Tony's funny but witty charm, befriend the much-hazed McGee, and win Abby's trust. What is it in Kensi that besides kicking people's butt we still want to watch her? Her relationship with Deeks? Well, you see, their lines after Deeks saves him in Absolution: K: I need to pee. D: You already did. What! That is classless.


    And Eric. All he's doing is being a tech geek. Not that it's bad, but compare him to Abby. That hyperactive Gothic girl follows absolutely no dress codes whatsoever, is addicted to caffeine drinks which would have killed her heart right now, and ignores all common etiquettes like blasting her music and hugging people around. But she's still in! Why? Because she's so good at what she's doing and we viewers love her for her freakiness! Besides wearing hawaii shirt, putting his feet on the table, and throwing failed dry humor, Eric is nobody to miss. Much less that new character, Nell Jones, ohh...we don't need more characters, we need less!


    The argument rests.



    This show is not trying to be the original. Just as the original was NOT trying to be JAG when it came out.

    I like the fact that the show has a large cast. There is less chance of boredom. Sam, Kensi, and Eric are important parts of the team. Kill any of them off, and you kill the show.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of zurimov

    zurimov

    [3]Dec 17, 2010
    • member since: 06/13/08
    • level: 9
    • rank: Door Number 2
    • posts: 34

    My point Sir, is this: Sam, Kensi, and Eric are stock characters: they are tokens, cliche characters that have been done to death. For example: Sam. A military veteran who works in a law enforcement agency. That is cliche. But a womanizing movie buff whose arsenal of pranks never exhausts and hazing to a new member is borderline sadistic works as an excellent federal agent, that stands out.


    A good example of standing out character in NCIS: LA is Hetty. A midget (excuse my anti-PC) woman runs an undercover operation! Has enough political capital to move out an airshow to save her team ("Ambush")! Her past triggers all-out intelligence war in LA ("Deliverance and Absolution")! Now, that is one hell of a character.


    I make comparison so we know why NCIS has growing rates every reason while NCIS: LA does not. Again, I'm looking to see Sam more than the usual "big black brave" guy, Kensi more than the action girl, and Eric more than a tech geek.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of danharr

    danharr

    [4]Dec 19, 2010
    • member since: 04/30/05
    • level: 45
    • rank: Swizzle-Bird
    • posts: 10,911
    Valid points but the answer isn't to kill the characters as you've said. Sam is the side kick which for a while looked like it was going to be the other way around silly me forgetting the rules of Hollywood but Kensi I think they are working on with little nods to her personal life and how she feels about things. I don't agree with your belief that they have to be larger than life such as the original shows Ziva and Tony. This show relies heavily on it's setting like CSI Miami the location is larger than life so the characters don't need to be so much. We need more of Sams personal life like the nod to his wife and kids and Kensi needs to do more that beat up giant bad guys and provide nice back angle shots and that would be character development yes but killing off no.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of zurimov

    zurimov

    [5]Dec 19, 2010
    • member since: 06/13/08
    • level: 9
    • rank: Door Number 2
    • posts: 34

    danharr wrote:
    Valid points but the answer isn't to kill the characters as you've said. Sam is the side kick which for a while looked like it was going to be the other way around silly me forgetting the rules of Hollywood but Kensi I think they are working on with little nods to her personal life and how she feels about things. I don't agree with your belief that they have to be larger than life such as the original shows Ziva and Tony. This show relies heavily on it's setting like CSI Miami the location is larger than life so the characters don't need to be so much. We need more of Sams personal life like the nod to his wife and kids and Kensi needs to do more that beat up giant bad guys and provide nice back angle shots and that would be character development yes but killing off no.


    And your points are indeed valid as well. I am just offering more radical solution to their underdeveloped characters. 1 solid, standing out character is much better than 3 shallow tokens. The writers did the right thing killing off Dominic midway of Season 1, but because Adam Craig is not a regular anymore, his death carried less blow to the team. If either one of Sam, Kensi, or Eric is killed off, the team can grow more mature and edgier.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of IanHaze

    IanHaze

    [6]Dec 24, 2010
    • member since: 09/27/07
    • level: 6
    • rank: Small Wonder
    • posts: 297

    Finally, somebody with a clue!


    Don't mind Lynna, she's a bit blind regarding cast performances...

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of lynna12000

    lynna12000

    [7]Dec 24, 2010
    • member since: 01/19/08
    • level: 21
    • rank: Snagglepuss
    • posts: 2,436
    IanHaze wrote:

    Finally, somebody with a clue!


    Don't mind Lynna, she's a bit blind regarding cast performances...



    Ha Ha..not. If you kill of 60% of the cast, you'll just send the rest off into an endless, downward spiral of grief and remorse. Why perpetuate really BAD cliches?
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of zurimov

    zurimov

    [8]Dec 25, 2010
    • member since: 06/13/08
    • level: 9
    • rank: Door Number 2
    • posts: 34

    Dude, 24 kill EVERYONE AND ANYONE except Jack and Kim. Why it survives for 8 season? Because it never falls cliche (save for the suckish Day 6). Why it never falls cliche? Because the show makes it clear that Anyone Can Die, and if that happens, the surviving characters suck it up and move on.


    If the NCIS:LA writers could not make that happen despite being in the same genre (undercover ops, drama action suspense, spy flick), then that's all there is in this show.


    And to those of you who argue that NCIS:LA relies much more on its setting rather than its character, try to imagine CSI:Miami without Horatio Caine. No matter how awesome the location is, without strong casts to live it up, it falls flat. If you look it up, Northern Exposure (1990-95) is set in godknowswhereland in Alaska yet it got 3 Emmy and 2 Golden Globe.


    Nah, as long as this show fills itself with tokens, it wouldn't last.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of lynna12000

    lynna12000

    [9]Dec 27, 2010
    • member since: 01/19/08
    • level: 21
    • rank: Snagglepuss
    • posts: 2,436
    zurimov wrote:

    Dude, 24 kill EVERYONE AND ANYONE except Jack and Kim. Why it survives for 8 season? Because it never falls cliche (save for the suckish Day 6). Why it never falls cliche? Because the show makes it clear that Anyone Can Die, and if that happens, the surviving characters suck it up and move on.


    If the NCIS:LA writers could not make that happen despite being in the same genre (undercover ops, drama action suspense, spy flick), then that's all there is in this show.


    And to those of you who argue that NCIS:LA relies much more on its setting rather than its character, try to imagine CSI:Miami without Horatio Caine. No matter how awesome the location is, without strong casts to live it up, it falls flat. If you look it up, Northern Exposure (1990-95) is set in godknowswhereland in Alaska yet it got 3 Emmy and 2 Golden Globe.


    Nah, as long as this show fills itself with tokens, it wouldn't last.



    24 was built up around Jack Bauer, not an ensemble cast. It was written around the idea that ALL the action took place in 1 day.

    The show HAS killed off a character. The rest of the team, including the new guy, are still dealing with his death. Why repeat history so soon?

    As for Horatio Caine, believe me, I try VERY HARD to imagine CSI: Baywa..oops Miami, without him. Sadly, my imagination, though vivid, is not strong enough to write him out of that reality.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of zurimov

    zurimov

    [10]Dec 27, 2010
    • member since: 06/13/08
    • level: 9
    • rank: Door Number 2
    • posts: 34

    Nah, there are ensemble casts, and then there are tokens. There are characters like Chloe O'Brien, Tony Almeida, Renee Walker, Charles Logan, David Palmer, Aaron Pierce, Ethan Kanin,......and then there are Sam, Kensi, and Eric.Laughing


    and you've mistaken that CSI: Miami part. It is exactly because there are Horatio Caine and his oneliner opening-put shades-oneliner closing-YEEEAHH people watch CSI: Miami all the time, no matter how ridiculous the science or the law is. NCIS:LA doesn't have something like that. If the plotlines suck and the case is dull, end of story, no matter how many people Sam tackles, how many underestimating men Kensi beats, how many computer Eric bypasses, you stop watching it.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of hot_babe101

    hot_babe101

    [11]Dec 28, 2010
    • member since: 01/15/08
    • level: 13
    • rank: Regal Beagle
    • posts: 248

    wow did someone just compare this show to '24' seriously that show was terrible.


    i agree with Lynna, if you're killing off half the cast, what else is there to do?


    Your just going to have a bunch of sad team members with issues because half their co-workers just DIED!


    maybe they just havnt shown you the depth of Kensi yet. Eric isnt supposed to be a gothic girl that sleeps in a coffin. Sam, LL Cool J is a fine actor, he makes you laugh and makes you feel other emotion too.



    would you really liked to be killed off if you were ever in a show just because you didnt have depth or wasnt goth or because you just plainly couldnt act?


    the answer is No

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of zurimov

    zurimov

    [12]Dec 28, 2010
    • member since: 06/13/08
    • level: 9
    • rank: Door Number 2
    • posts: 34

    hot_babe101 wrote:


    wow did someone just compare this show to '24' seriously that show was terrible.


    i agree with Lynna, if you're killing off half the cast, what else is there to do?


    Your just going to have a bunch of sad team members with issues because half their co-workers just DIED!


    maybe they just havnt shown you the depth of Kensi yet. Eric isnt supposed to be a gothic girl that sleeps in a coffin. Sam, LL Cool J is a fine actor, he makes you laugh and makes you feel other emotion too.



    would you really liked to be killed off if you were ever in a show just because you didnt have depth or wasnt goth or because you just plainly couldnt act?


    the answer is No




    Pardon, but you call a show that wins 20 Emmy, 2 Golden Globe, and 4 Screen Actors Guild terrible?


    Uh-huh, they might still haven't shown us Kensi's depth, yeah right, but it's already halfway of SECOND season.


    And Eric, yeah, he isn't supposed to be gothic, then what adjective could you use to describe him?


    And really, NCIS: LA is a show about undercover intelligence agency fighting against terrorists. Making people laugh should be its fifteenth priority


    Of course I wouldn't like if my character gets killed; that means I lose my job, but that's IF I'M THE ACTOR. Correct me if I'm wrong but we are the VIEWER.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of lynna12000

    lynna12000

    [13]Dec 28, 2010
    • member since: 01/19/08
    • level: 21
    • rank: Snagglepuss
    • posts: 2,436
    zurimov wrote:

    hot_babe101 wrote:


    wow did someone just compare this show to '24' seriously that show was terrible.


    i agree with Lynna, if you're killing off half the cast, what else is there to do?


    Your just going to have a bunch of sad team members with issues because half their co-workers just DIED!


    maybe they just havnt shown you the depth of Kensi yet. Eric isnt supposed to be a gothic girl that sleeps in a coffin. Sam, LL Cool J is a fine actor, he makes you laugh and makes you feel other emotion too.



    would you really liked to be killed off if you were ever in a show just because you didnt have depth or wasnt goth or because you just plainly couldnt act?


    the answer is No




    Pardon, but you call a show that wins 20 Emmy, 2 Golden Globe, and 4 Screen Actors Guild terrible?


    Uh-huh, they might still haven't shown us Kensi's depth, yeah right, but it's already halfway of SECOND season.


    And Eric, yeah, he isn't supposed to be gothic, then what adjective could you use to describe him?


    And really, NCIS: LA is a show about undercover intelligence agency fighting against terrorists. Making people laugh should be its fifteenth priority


    Of course I wouldn't like if my character gets killed; that means I lose my job, but that's IF I'M THE ACTOR. Correct me if I'm wrong but we are the VIEWER.



    Eric is a Surfer type dude, he doesn't have to be a 'Goth'. Making him a 'Goth', or a pocket protector wearing 'Geek' would be too easy.

    Making people laugh is NOT the first priority for the team. But making the audience smile is something it needs to do to keep the audience coming back. And since we are still discussing the show on this, and other forums, the writers are doing SOMETHING right.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of zurimov

    zurimov

    [14]Dec 29, 2010
    • member since: 06/13/08
    • level: 9
    • rank: Door Number 2
    • posts: 34

    When I look up at the show's genre and theme in TV.com, I find them say "action/suspense" and "spy". If you smile more than you tense, then the writers didn't do it right.FrownAnd I never said Eric has to be a goth; I said Eric is a token tech geek. You said he's more a surfer type guy, well, have we ever seen him surf?


    And I'm making comparison because it's a shame a show with such a potential screws itself with cliche tokens. Really, if there is no NCIS title, this show wouldn't even last half first season.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of iamnotarobot56

    iamnotarobot56

    [15]Dec 29, 2010
    • member since: 12/21/10
    • level: 3
    • rank: Soup Nazi
    • posts: 32

    Okay, seriously?


    You are absolutely right. It is the middle of the SECOND season. That means theyhaven't had alot of time to develop certain characters. They are only starting toreally develop Kensi in the last few episodes, Sam has gotten mere mention personal-life wise, and Eric, well knowing Shane Brennan we probably won't know more about him for a long, long time. I mean look at Abby. Sure she's cute and quirky but we don't know much about her at all, and it's been EIGHT seasons.They will get there, but I wouldn't hold your breath, seeing as who pulls the strings. We're in for a long haul, just ask the Tiva fans.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Pegasus38

    Pegasus38

    [16]Dec 29, 2010
    • member since: 12/30/10
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 8

    zurimov wrote:


    I know I will get a lot of dislike for this, but please take your time to finish reading first, like I took mine to put out my thoughts here.


    Let's face it. LL Cool J is chosen because he is famous, not because he is a standout actor or the writers actually have plans for him. Tell me at least three other adjectives that you can describe him besides "big", "black", or "brave". Those adjectives are pretty much what Sam is, which is not good at all, because that makes him a mere stock action sidekick hero to G. Compare him to Tony in the original. He is a capable gunfighter, epic prankster, funny womanizer, and, most of all, unbeatable annoyer. Only Tony can be annoying enough that the head of Mossad unwittingly leaks his own plan--while Eli was the one who interrogates him! What can Sam do? Fight? Well, so can G, Kensi, and Deeks, yes?


    Personally, I honestly thought LL Cool J acting??? Then I watched and thought he was a perfect sidekick to Callen. The two are polar opposites and I think that's why their dynamic works. I think Sam has a lot of depth, he's caring, calm and collected, whereas Callen can be impulsive, non emotional (except when it comes to learning about his family and he's sarcastic... which I love. They fit well because as Callen said, they complete each other, and he's right.
    :


    And Daniela Ruah's character. Kensi. She has no depth. Just like Sam, she is the token action girl every show needs to have nowadays. Why we love Ziva David? Because she is ex-Mossad assassin. Because she continuously mangles American idioms. Because she drives like crazy that even his father is scared. Because she dares to face the invincible Gibbs, match Tony's funny but witty charm, befriend the much-hazed McGee, and win Abby's trust. What is it in Kensi that besides kicking people's butt we still want to watch her? Her relationship with Deeks? Well, you see, their lines after Deeks saves him in Absolution: K: I need to pee. D: You already did. What! That is classless.


    Kensi has depths that are different to Ziva, wouldn't want them to be clones anyway, but she can kick ass pretty good. She tends to use her feminine wiles to get what she needs. She knows what her strong suits are and isn't afraid to use them to her advantage, whereas Ziva is more of a tomboy, also Kensi's a great referee and more like a sister when it comes to Sam and Callen, whereas Ziva lets McGoo and Tony work it out themselves. I like someone who can be strong and vulnerable. I loved it with Ziva when she came back from Africa, and just because she can kick ass with the best of the boys she hasn't lost her feminine quality. As for Kensi, I like that she has trust issues with men, and what's wrong with saying you need to pee? How often do we get to see everyone running around without so much as a toilet break? It's refreshing actually, LOL. And it was Deeks who said he already peed himself not Kensi, LOL.
    :


    And Eric. All he's doing is being a tech geek. Not that it's bad, but compare him to Abby. That hyperactive Gothic girl follows absolutely no dress codes whatsoever, is addicted to caffeine drinks which would have killed her heart right now, and ignores all common etiquettes like blasting her music and hugging people around. But she's still in! Why? Because she's so good at what she's doing and we viewers love her for her freakiness! Besides wearing hawaii shirt, putting his feet on the table, and throwing failed dry humor, Eric is nobody to miss. Much less that new character, Nell Jones, ohh...we don't need more characters, we need less!


    The argument rests.


    All I can say is that Abby is in a class of her own, when they made her, they broke the mold and I wouldn't want another Abby, I like she's unique. Eric is not supposed to be a forensics expert, he's a hacker, and while Abby has those skills, she has McGoo to fall back on, and Eric is more akin to McGee's skills involving hacking and when you're dealing with hitech ops, you need someone with the computer skills to match. That's Eric. He's dress style is bad, but that's his style.


    The defence rests. LOL

    Edited on 01/03/2011 5:04am
    Edited 3 total times.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of IanHaze

    IanHaze

    [17]Jan 3, 2011
    • member since: 09/27/07
    • level: 6
    • rank: Small Wonder
    • posts: 297

    hot_babe101 wrote:
    Your just going to have a bunch of sad team members with issues because half their co-workers just DIED!


    Right, cause spies aren't found out and sentenced to death all the time, and all spies expect their spy buddies to live happily ever after...

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of tiva_mcabby5

    tiva_mcabby5

    [18]Jan 3, 2011
    • member since: 07/30/09
    • level: 9
    • rank: Door Number 2
    • posts: 242

    i'm not trying to get involved in this, but if you don't like the show or its characters, don't watch it.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of zurimov

    zurimov

    [20]Jan 4, 2011
    • member since: 06/13/08
    • level: 9
    • rank: Door Number 2
    • posts: 34

    tiva_mcabby5 wrote:


    i'm not trying to get involved in this, but if you don't like the show or its characters, don't watch it.




    For one, that's a cheap cliched call-out. For two, I never said I don't like this show, so better read more thoroughly next time. For three, every show has characters that some just find useless/unlikeable/irritating, and that's why TV.com provides forum so viewers can discuss the matter here.


    For four, if you don't try to get involved in this, don't even bother to reply on this forum at all then.


    Have a good day!Wink


    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.