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FX (ended 2010)

5.04 "Dawn Budge II" Episode Discussion

  • Avatar of plumedserpent1

    plumedserpent1

    [41]Nov 23, 2007
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    Since Nip/Tuck is all about pushing the boundaries on their content into very uncomfortable areas, they are really trying to go for the "Daddy/Little School Girl" taboo, but with a fatal attraction type of twist. This is catering to a common male fantasy, but in order to make it palatable, Eden can in no way be seen as being seduced by Sean. Instead they make her into a sexual predator. Everything good in Nip/Tuck is in someway perverted and twisted, and it is no suprise that Eden is used as a device to corrupt Sean's daughter, who is what, 12 or 13? And the implication of Eden manipulation her into oral sex with a boy at school was vintage Nip/Tuck. The Parents Television Council is going to be all over this one.

    The characters in this show always struggle with their basest, kinkiestdesires. There was no way the creator was going to skip this subject. Of course they had to go lolita. Nip/Tuck is, at its most simplistic, aperverted soap opera. Characters play themselves out and go away all the time, so it probably won't last that long.

    I am curious, in your opinion, does the Eden story line suffer from bad development. ,or is it that it is just uncomfortable?

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  • Avatar of crimsonmiss

    crimsonmiss

    [42]Nov 23, 2007
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    jaskolo wrote:
    I think that Eden is here like a character that will push Sean to the edge. She will push him so hard that he will be even "punished" but in SM way by that SM girl (shown in 2nd episode I think). She will take care of the BAD Sean that he'll become. snip
    I got the feeling we'd be seeing mistress dark pain again, but your suggestion of Eden (and not just the fame game) being a factor in pushing him towards some sessions with the dominatrix sounds interesting.
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    gigglesripner

    [43]Nov 23, 2007
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    JaceJones wrote:
    I thought this was a really good episode. It had the classic humor that Nip/Tuck hasn't had on a regular basis since season 3 while also giving Eden an interesting twist on being our big bad this season. She seems like she has that kind of manipulation to really tear into Annie, which MAY explain why we see Annie so screwed up in Conor McNamara 2026. Overall, I'd give this an 8.5 out of 10!

    i think the ass bandit is gonna be the big bad this season but i might be wrong
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  • Avatar of tjaman

    tjaman

    [44]Nov 23, 2007
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    I just realized that I'd seen a "Vertigo" reference in a recent "Pushing Daisies" dream sequence and I loved it, and almost shot-for-shot as bad a "Birds" reference in Dawn's eagle attack on this show, and I didn't like it at all.

    Hmmm. Maybe it actually was an homage and I should appreciate it on that level (although seriously, Rosie has a lot of trouble expressing fear -- her face always looks bemused -- and I just don't think it works as well as Tippy Hedrin's terror [although the scenes are about equally realistic].)

    I'll watch it again with that in mind.
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  • Avatar of tjaman

    tjaman

    [45]Nov 24, 2007
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    No, it was no homage. Just tape salad.
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  • Avatar of crimsonmiss

    crimsonmiss

    [46]Nov 24, 2007
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    plumedserpent1 wrote:

    snip I am curious, in your opinion, does the Eden story line suffer from bad development. ,or is it that it is just uncomfortable?

    I think part of the reason the Eden storyline works for me is because it is so discomforting. On one level b/c at face value it's disturbing to watch someone so young be so manipulative and evil. The way she's almost nonchalantly damaging Annie is infuriating to me. But Eden can also be seen as a parallel to the way that young people (particularly women) are sexualized so early in life and taught that their worth lies in that sexuality and to use that sexuality as a leverage point. Sean clearly doesn't want her (and what she represents) to influence his daughter, but he's still not immune to her advances which is also terrifying. It's neat that this show can be viewed on different levels. I guess some of the reasons other people may not like the storyline could be that it is so disturbing, they may have known or been traumatized by someone like Eden growing up, they may not like that from the moment she was appeared she was so 'over the top' (which I think may be part of the point of the character).

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  • Avatar of crimsonmiss

    crimsonmiss

    [47]Nov 24, 2007
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    tjaman wrote:
    I just realized that I'd seen a "Vertigo" reference in a recent "Pushing Daisies" dream sequence and I loved it, and almost shot-for-shot as bad a "Birds" reference in Dawn's eagle attack on this show, and I didn't like it at all. Hmmm. Maybe it actually was an homage and I should appreciate it on that level (although seriously, Rosie has a lot of trouble expressing fear -- her face always looks bemused -- and I just don't think it works as well as Tippy Hedrin's terror [although the scenes are about equally realistic].) I'll watch it again with that in mind.
    I'm not a Hitchcock expert, though I do enjoy his works (Rear Window? was on AMC the other night). I think part of the reason the eagle attack was so hilarious to me was b/c it was so ridiculous. The shot of the eagle's talons tearing the canvas of her glider, the eagle pulling at her lip/tongue. So I think you're right that it was meant as homage, but also a parody. In some ways it makes me think about the "Birds" scene in Mel Brooks' "High Anxiety." It's been a while since I saw it, but I think most of that film was a parody of Hitchcock films. I also have to admit, I think it's funny seeing people fighting with obviously fake props. If you've ever seen Martin Lawrence fighting with 'animals' and some 'people' on the show 'Martin' you'll know what I mean.
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  • Avatar of MovieMark17

    MovieMark17

    [48]Nov 24, 2007
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    tjaman wrote:
    And Christian heading out on "Nanny issues." I'm glad he didn't do her again. She's not allowed to just endanger her life (never mind $8,000, I'd want an indemnity waiver) and text him about it halfway through. What if he was in surgery? She'd just have to die. I'm glad he didn't indulge her a second time.

    I actually wondered about this part. Did he do her a "first" time? I wasn't sure whether it was all a "what if" flash forward of what was to come once he did the whole thing or just some dream-like sex scene to establish the oddness of her request?

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  • Avatar of slim324k

    slim324k

    [49]Nov 24, 2007
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    MovieMark17 wrote:

    tjaman wrote:
    And Christian heading out on "Nanny issues." I'm glad he didn't do her again. She's not allowed to just endanger her life (never mind $8,000, I'd want an indemnity waiver) and text him about it halfway through. What if he was in surgery? She'd just have to die. I'm glad he didn't indulge her a second time.

    I actually wondered about this part. Did he do her a "first" time? I wasn't sure whether it was all a "what if" flash forward of what was to come once he did the whole thing or just some dream-like sex scene to establish the oddness of her request?



    I don't think he did anything with her because if you recall after the dream sequence they were back in the lobby. Also she said she wanted it to be random so it had more sense of reality and danger to it.
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  • Avatar of tjaman

    tjaman

    [50]Nov 24, 2007
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    I assumed that what happened after her description and Christian demanded double the money and called her a kinky bitca and she said, a la Amy Lee, "Bring me to life," that they went upstairs and did it.

    I thought the reason they ran the clips alongside her request was because it was more interesting than just listening to her sit there and go on and on about it for eight minutes.

    I got the sense that the reason she was so confident that he would get and respond to her txt was that they'd done it before and he knew the drill.
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  • Avatar of Sagitariusbri86

    Sagitariusbri86

    [51]Nov 26, 2007
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    I agree with you but they do say before the show for adult audience only so that clears them to push it as far as they want to and I guess since Sean is a permanent character on the showproblems are directed around him and towards him and not him towards other character problems like Eden who isn't a permanent character so thats whythat plays out like that.

    plumedserpent1 wrote:

    Since Nip/Tuck is all about pushing the boundaries on their content into very uncomfortable areas, they are really trying to go for the "Daddy/Little School Girl" taboo, but with a fatal attraction type of twist. This is catering to a common male fantasy, but in order to make it palatable, Eden can in no way be seen as being seduced by Sean. Instead they make her into a sexual predator. Everything good in Nip/Tuck is in someway perverted and twisted, and it is no suprise that Eden is used as a device to corrupt Sean's daughter, who is what, 12 or 13? And the implication of Eden manipulation her into oral sex with a boy at school was vintage Nip/Tuck. The Parents Television Council is going to be all over this one.

    The characters in this show always struggle with their basest, kinkiestdesires. There was no way the creator was going to skip this subject. Of course they had to go lolita. Nip/Tuck is, at its most simplistic, aperverted soap opera. Characters play themselves out and go away all the time, so it probably won't last that long.

    I am curious, in your opinion, does the Eden story line suffer from bad development. ,or is it that it is just uncomfortable?

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  • Avatar of jmac4ever

    jmac4ever

    [52]Nov 27, 2007
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    I loved this episode. I feel like finally we're back to the Nip/Tuck I remember. Eden is a great big bad as far as I'm concerned. She's going after Annie psychologically which is something no other enemy to M/T has done before. Plus, she fits into the show's overall theme of physical beauty and the problems that arise because of it.

    Another great thing: we're back to honestly exploring Christian as a character. That's something that's been missing for a long time. Every other thing I've seen McMahon in, he hasn't been that great. But, for some reason, he's at his best when he's playing Christian. He just knows the character so well. Same goes for Walsh, who seems to always know how to balance Sean's inner desires with his moral center.

    If the show keeps going this direction, I have faith that this could be the best season yet.

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  • Avatar of headmonkeys

    headmonkeys

    [53]Dec 2, 2007
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    Wow, what a great episode, probably the best of the season so far. I'm not a religious person, but I was really touched by the interactions between Christian and the Sister. She's a very good opposite for him, and I hope that he stays with her/the religious angle for a little while. I'd like to see him take a different path for a bit, since I think it's about time. He's been battling so much stress, and man different things, but he's also got Wilbur back in his life, so I think it's high time he found some balance. Not in a nutty way, like the Scientology plot line, but maybe just be a little more calm, while perhaps Sean starts to lose it with the Eden and Annie plot line.

    By the way, I'm thinking and hoping that the Ass bandit was only there to show Freddy that he really was gay.

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  • Avatar of shawnlunn2002

    shawnlunn2002

    [55]Dec 9, 2007
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    Meh, this was okay.

    Liz - Dear God, give her more to do. Some sarcastisc here and there isn't enough.

    Christian/Gwen/Nun - Better this week. Gwen was kinda creepy but the nun is great for calling Christian on his crap. Why is it the best exchanges he has with women are the ones he can't sleep with?

    Sean/Kate/Eden - Oh God, Eden ain't even that good looking. Sean needs to snap out of it already. Kate's sweet but I can see her and Sean coming to an end.

    Julia/Olivia/Annie - Both of them need to get their heads out of the sand in regards to Annie.

    Dawn/Freddy - Cute but I don't care enough. Freddy does seem to be using her.

    Rating:7/10.
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