Nip/Tuck Forums

FX (ended 2010)

5.06 "Damien Sands" Episode Discussion

  • Avatar of MovieMark17

    MovieMark17

    [21]Dec 9, 2007
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    Meh...just watched it... gonna think on it for a while, but I was dissapointed, alright.
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  • Avatar of Dr_Chaos_Fox

    Dr_Chaos_Fox

    [22]Dec 10, 2007
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    *sigh*

    Dammit, Sean....didn't you learn anything at all from "cut my balls off" badass dream Sean?

    Becuase I know I can't be the only that believes what that alter ego prophesized about Eden.

    Whether the feelings Eden seems to have developed for him are real or fake, he's screwed (ha) once he's done with her.

    Edited on 12/10/2007 4:32pm
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  • Avatar of tjaman

    tjaman

    [23]Dec 10, 2007
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    I'd like to see the writers stretch themselves beyond the consequences of sticking one's screwdriver into an electrical outlet.

    Surely there's more going on with these people than the fact that they're all in their 40s and there are inappropriate children and love interests in every direction.

    What would be the harm in any of them actually exploring a life of the mind, potentially with someone confrontational and challenging for whom they had some or any respect?

    This show makes everyone seem like an out-of-control hormonal teenager. The men seem to be driven entirely by their id and never mind them for a moment -- where am I meant to look for good examples of female empowerment?

    Julia, alternately dithery and whiny, completely unrecognizable as the woman who built and ran her own successful business barely two years before.

    Olivia, the impossibly short-sighted practictioner of Eastern medicine who has only been on screen long enough to abdicate her maternal authority.

    Eden, the skank. I could respect a "Lolita" storyline, but only with Christian, and only if it pulled him up short and forced him to confront his own sexual abuse as a child. Sean is improbably motivated in this direction.

    Annie, who lacks the self-esteem to stand up for herself and is so afraid of being alone she gets physical with a boy she can't possibly have known for longer than two weeks (and the implication is that he's her first so, impulse control much?)

    Liz, who makes a move on Olivia despite a long-term friendship and erstwhile partnership with Julia. And Olivia accepting this move just because, what, Julia's still coming to terms with her feelings?

    Kate, who's hot tub antics illustrated the best reason to avoid Eden's little friend Mia. No offense to anyone, but any one of her deals -- the yo-yo dieting, the laxatives, the lashing out as some sort of psycho relationship test and then the pi-oops de resistance hot tub crappery -- is a deal-breaker. Sean could throw a dollar bill down Rodeo Drive and find someone more appropriate.

    Hell, there are pre-op trannies on Sunset Boulevard who'd treat him better.

    Or maybe Kimber, the delusional fading porn star drug addict who has off-camera bum sex with Bo Duke in exchange for meth over her husband's firmly articulated objections. I can almost sympathize with her reasons for getting addicted to meth, but what the heck is Matt's excuse? He's almost as weak-willed as Annie.

    What on earth is wrong with these people? I hope something turns around soon to make any one of them likable -- or at least believable.
    Edited on 12/10/2007 5:11pm
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  • Avatar of Deborah195

    Deborah195

    [24]Dec 10, 2007
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    So it's Late Monday and I missed the last 15 minutes of the Plastic Fantastic episode... a quick fill in if possible. Darn, I can't even remember where I left off, I fell asleep.
    Is there anywhere you guys know of with a detailed synopsis of last weeks? thanks a bunch~Deb
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  • Avatar of JaceJones

    JaceJones

    [25]Dec 10, 2007
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    Wow...it baffles me how people just can't seem to be happy with this show no matter what. It's like after Ava, the she-devil who completely metamorphed Nip/Tuck into a whole new idea, nothing surprises anyone anymore.

    1.) Christian's jealousy is obviously a good trait for him to have at this point. This is the first time he's had a back seat. I haven't seen much complaining in that department, so that's good. I like how heartless New York influenced him to be, to the point where he purposely provoked a fight between Julia and Liz for the cameras. And how much he hated the idea of Plastic Fantastic by the end of the episode, but was kinda bummed it wouldn't have done well regardless.

    2.) Sean. Poor Sean. He's finally getting a taste of the limelight and it's falling right out of his hands. If he starts any sort of relationship with Eden (and he will...this is Nip/Tuck, after all) he's going down a stormy path that I'm not sure anyone will be able to help him recover from. This girl is in high school, for Christ's sake! Let that get out to the public and we'll see how this show goes.

    3.) Julia. Okay, so why are we surprised that we're not seeing the same Julia that we saw in season 3? She had a baby in her 40s, a baby that came out disfigured, and she had to deal with the anguish of wondering rather or not fixing him was in his best interests. Can you not see how emotionally damaging that can be on a woman? I really can't imagine because I'm not a woman, but I assume having to worry that much on something so precious that you gave life to has to be really really discouraging. And then this newfound relationship with Olivia? She's unsure of herself, people! How can she be the confident woman she once was if she's not even sure who she's being is who she really is? I think you guys are asking for too much. I've seen a lot of complaints, but so far no suggestions that actually make any better sense. Hmm...

    4.) Matt & Kimber. If anyone has any trouble seeing how Kimber went on her downward spiral, you're insane. It's been clearly laid out for us in every season thus far that she is dependent on two things: a support system and her appearance. Her support system in season 4 was Scientology and her appearance was at an all-time high...until the baby. And until the sex tape scandal. So, losing both of these, isn't it inevitable that she would fall back into drugs just like she has in the past? With Matt, it's a similar ordeal. He wants what's best for his baby, we all know that, and he really loves Kimber. But he's afraid she doesn't love him. This isn't a valid reason to divulge in the meth she's opened her arms to, but I can see it as a gateway into a bunch of reasons we may not have realized yet. Keep in mind: Sean & Christian don't know about the two of them and their drug addiction yet. Sure, we know how Kimber got hooked. But I'm sure S&C will want an explanation from Matt, which I'm sure we'll get. Be patient, dammit.

    5.) Okay, I'm not sure if you guys know this...Liz is a supporting character. Sure, she's in the main cast, but this show has never been about her. I don't know how much you want her to do because she's not exactly 100% three-dimensional and just about anything they do with her will come out of left field, so stop your belly-aching. When the time is right, we'll see her do more. Like in season 4. WHEN THE TIME IS RIGHT.

    6.) Olivia is obviously not a character who is going to stick around for seasons to come. And if she is, well, what a pleasant surprise. I don't see anything wrong with her character. She's a concerned mother thus far and a lesbian trying to sway Julia to come full circle, sure, but you guys act like we've seen the brink of her character. She's been in five out of six episodes thus far. Can we take a second for character development before we jump to conclusions? Jesus, even Ava Moore didn't show herself as such a manipulative **** until she had been around for a little while longer.

    7.) Which brings me to Eden. Once again: five out of six episodes. Or is it four? I'm so surprised by many of the die hard Nip/Tuck fans on this forum that are complaining about her. She's sexy, she's seductive, she's manipulative. She's EVERYTHING Ava was. The only difference? We haven't seen the full season so we don't know her potential. Keep in mind that there are 22 episodes this season. We're not even halfway there and I'm seeing all this negative posting like you're supposed to know exactly what's happening with this season in the pilot episode. Last I checked, everyone complained last time a story arc started in the pilot and lasted 'til the finale (the kidney arc, the Carver arc). And now, here we are, being all testy because we don't know where they're going with Sean and Eden? We know how easily manipulated Sean can be. Why is it such a surprise he's falling for Eden's tricks? Just because he's had a couple of close calls in the past? We know he likes risks. Megan O'Hara was a risk. Monica Wilder was a risk (but became a hassle). Eden is a risk. Just take a chill pill, relax, and let this story arc ride itself out.

    If next week's episode doesn't look remotely interesting to you, I say you should start tuning out. I'm not sure what any of you guys are interested in anymore, but a lot of you don't seem to be interested in Nip/Tuck. I thought this episode was brilliant. It was classic Nip/Tuck humor that I've been craving with just a dash of drama to keep me in suspense. Totally new arc for the show. Though, I have to say, I'm glad it didn't last. The novelty would wear off.

    I give it an 8/10.

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  • Avatar of tjaman

    tjaman

    [26]Dec 11, 2007
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    Jace, it's great that this all seems like forward development to you. I guess it feels to me like these characters just can't learn from their mistakes because a lot of these storylines seem very familiar. On one hand, yay consistent characters! On the other, boo for no new ideas. One of the things I love about Nip/Tuck is that it's groundbreaking. I haven't seen a lot of new ground broken in a while. It's like new location, same old crap.

    Anyway, I was talking about strong female characters. Women seem to get cut off at the knees on this show. The strongest female presence this season has been that publicist, and she's really just as dark and manipulative as anyone.

    I don't think the problem is going to be that Eden's in high school. I think the problem is going to be that she's actually a month shy of 18 or something.

    Two observations, and tell me I'm being unreasonable:

    + If Sean is the TV star this show is making him out to be, then he can do better than Kate and Eden. Heck, even that dominatrix is a better bet.

    + If Christian is being the father to Wilber he'd wanted to be for more than a season, then he'll have other more important things to worry about than a moment or two in Sean's shadow.
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  • Avatar of MovieMark17

    MovieMark17

    [27]Dec 11, 2007
    • member since: 06/14/05
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    JaceJones wrote:

    Wow...it baffles me how people just can't seem to be happy with this show no matter what. It's like after Ava, the she-devil who completely metamorphed Nip/Tuck into a whole new idea, nothing surprises anyone anymore.

    1.) Christian's jealousy is obviously a good trait for him to have at this point. This is the first time he's had a back seat. I haven't seen much complaining in that department, so that's good. I like how heartless New York influenced him to be, to the point where he purposely provoked a fight between Julia and Liz for the cameras. And how much he hated the idea of Plastic Fantastic by the end of the episode, but was kinda bummed it wouldn't have done well regardless.

    2.) Sean. Poor Sean. He's finally getting a taste of the limelight and it's falling right out of his hands. If he starts any sort of relationship with Eden (and he will...this is Nip/Tuck, after all) he's going down a stormy path that I'm not sure anyone will be able to help him recover from. This girl is in high school, for Christ's sake! Let that get out to the public and we'll see how this show goes.

    3.) Julia. Okay, so why are we surprised that we're not seeing the same Julia that we saw in season 3? She had a baby in her 40s, a baby that came out disfigured, and she had to deal with the anguish of wondering rather or not fixing him was in his best interests. Can you not see how emotionally damaging that can be on a woman? I really can't imagine because I'm not a woman, but I assume having to worry that much on something so precious that you gave life to has to be really really discouraging. And then this newfound relationship with Olivia? She's unsure of herself, people! How can she be the confident woman she once was if she's not even sure who she's being is who she really is? I think you guys are asking for too much. I've seen a lot of complaints, but so far no suggestions that actually make any better sense. Hmm...

    4.) Matt & Kimber. If anyone has any trouble seeing how Kimber went on her downward spiral, you're insane. It's been clearly laid out for us in every season thus far that she is dependent on two things: a support system and her appearance. Her support system in season 4 was Scientology and her appearance was at an all-time high...until the baby. And until the sex tape scandal. So, losing both of these, isn't it inevitable that she would fall back into drugs just like she has in the past? With Matt, it's a similar ordeal. He wants what's best for his baby, we all know that, and he really loves Kimber. But he's afraid she doesn't love him. This isn't a valid reason to divulge in the meth she's opened her arms to, but I can see it as a gateway into a bunch of reasons we may not have realized yet. Keep in mind: Sean & Christian don't know about the two of them and their drug addiction yet. Sure, we know how Kimber got hooked. But I'm sure S&C will want an explanation from Matt, which I'm sure we'll get. Be patient, dammit.

    5.) Okay, I'm not sure if you guys know this...Liz is a supporting character. Sure, she's in the main cast, but this show has never been about her. I don't know how much you want her to do because she's not exactly 100% three-dimensional and just about anything they do with her will come out of left field, so stop your belly-aching. When the time is right, we'll see her do more. Like in season 4. WHEN THE TIME IS RIGHT.

    6.) Olivia is obviously not a character who is going to stick around for seasons to come. And if she is, well, what a pleasant surprise. I don't see anything wrong with her character. She's a concerned mother thus far and a lesbian trying to sway Julia to come full circle, sure, but you guys act like we've seen the brink of her character. She's been in five out of six episodes thus far. Can we take a second for character development before we jump to conclusions? Jesus, even Ava Moore didn't show herself as such a manipulative **** until she had been around for a little while longer.

    7.) Which brings me to Eden. Once again: five out of six episodes. Or is it four? I'm so surprised by many of the die hard Nip/Tuck fans on this forum that are complaining about her. She's sexy, she's seductive, she's manipulative. She's EVERYTHING Ava was. The only difference? We haven't seen the full season so we don't know her potential. Keep in mind that there are 22 episodes this season. We're not even halfway there and I'm seeing all this negative posting like you're supposed to know exactly what's happening with this season in the pilot episode. Last I checked, everyone complained last time a story arc started in the pilot and lasted 'til the finale (the kidney arc, the Carver arc). And now, here we are, being all testy because we don't know where they're going with Sean and Eden? We know how easily manipulated Sean can be. Why is it such a surprise he's falling for Eden's tricks? Just because he's had a couple of close calls in the past? We know he likes risks. Megan O'Hara was a risk. Monica Wilder was a risk (but became a hassle). Eden is a risk. Just take a chill pill, relax, and let this story arc ride itself out.

    If next week's episode doesn't look remotely interesting to you, I say you should start tuning out. I'm not sure what any of you guys are interested in anymore, but a lot of you don't seem to be interested in Nip/Tuck. I thought this episode was brilliant. It was classic Nip/Tuck humor that I've been craving with just a dash of drama to keep me in suspense. Totally new arc for the show. Though, I have to say, I'm glad it didn't last. The novelty would wear off.

    I give it an 8/10.

    I'm glad you enjoy these new elements, but I'd appreciate it if ya would refrain from suggesting that people who simply don't have the same opinion as yourself to stop watching the show. And who is this everyone you are talking about? So a few people complained, not every Nip/Tuck fan...and that's the crazy thing about opinion, people tend to have different ones.

    And...whoa. Comparing Eden to Ava? That's not even justifiable! Eden...sexy? She's about as sexy as a full blown case of herpes. Wait, wasn't that Gina? I like Eden as a character, but she is nowhere near Ava's league. She destroyed many, many lives and she was sassy, strong and confident while doing it. Eden is a snotty little whore (in my opinion of course).

    I always mention Liz because she's a fab character. The only sane one of the lot.

    Ya wanna know what my problem is with this show? In comparison to other shows it excells. No doubt. But in comparison to its own previous seasons, it's coming off a bit stale. A suggestion for Julia? Get a job!

    I appreciate hearing stuff from the other side of the Nip/Tuck fan base - the ones who fail to see any flaws thematically or development wise (or lackthereof) - but while you are pointing out your opinions in future, hows about sounding less condescending, eh?

    Nip/Tick, I think, is still a good show. Just not as good. What's there to be baffled about?

    Edited on 12/11/2007 8:38am
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  • Avatar of JaceJones

    JaceJones

    [28]Dec 11, 2007
    • member since: 10/19/05
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    tjaman wrote:
    Jace, it's great that this all seems like forward development to you. I guess it feels to me like these characters just can't learn from their mistakes because a lot of these storylines seem very familiar. On one hand, yay consistent characters! On the other, boo for no new ideas. One of the things I love about Nip/Tuck is that it's groundbreaking. I haven't seen a lot of new ground broken in a while. It's like new location, same old crap.

    Anyway, I was talking about strong female characters. Women seem to get cut off at the knees on this show. The strongest female presence this season has been that publicist, and she's really just as dark and manipulative as anyone.

    I don't think the problem is going to be that Eden's in high school. I think the problem is going to be that she's actually a month shy of 18 or something.

    Two observations, and tell me I'm being unreasonable:

    + If Sean is the TV star this show is making him out to be, then he can do better than Kate and Eden. Heck, even that dominatrix is a better bet.

    + If Christian is being the father to Wilber he'd wanted to be for more than a season, then he'll have other more important things to worry about than a moment or two in Sean's shadow.


    I don't know how many new ideas don't include drugs, sex, or violence on TV to be honest with you. I don't think you can say they don't have new ideas until you see how it unfolds. I couldn't recall Eden's age but I knew she was in high school, which is why I mentioned that. But with the publicist not even being a presence on the show right now (seems like Bliss Burger is taking over for McNamara/Troy), I don't know how much we can say about her.

    Point #1: Obviously Sean can do better. But how many of us would tune in watching him be happy with his life for an entire season? Besides...he just hasn't met better yet. And don't forget he's still on the rebound from Julia. Better doesn't exist on the rebound half the time.

    Point #2: Christian is vain and always has been. He wants to be a good father to Wilbur (who we haven't seen since the premiere) but you know that the spotlight is something Christian has always craved. I can see him wanting to give up everything to get that spotlight back again.
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  • Avatar of tjaman

    tjaman

    [29]Dec 11, 2007
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    JaceJones wrote:
    I don't know how many new ideas don't include drugs, sex, or violence on TV to be honest with you.


    I wish the writers would make some sort of effort. I think shock value is fantastic but it's so much more effective when it's the occasional grand mal plot twist and not just some splash du jour.

    Also, what is Christian getting out of these janes? Where's that story going? What's going on with Matt and Kimber? Seems to be a lot of holding patterns.

    I mean yeah, unsolved tension is exciting and makes for edgy teevee, but these situations are improbable and it'd be fun to believe that there are consequences and imagine what they'll be and how everyone will get away with stuff and that any underdeveloped plot element isn't just going to wander out of shot and get forgotten about.

    * waves at Grace, Sofia, Ariel, Cherry, Erica, Conor, Dr. Grayson, Ava, Christian's mom and half-siblings, Natascha and Michele all hanging around in the corner forming some sort of support group *
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  • Avatar of SleepTight

    SleepTight

    [30]Dec 11, 2007
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    I am watching this episode right now and dear dog, N/T has never been this bad. What happened?
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  • Avatar of tjaman

    tjaman

    [32]Dec 11, 2007
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    Jace is as entitled to his opinion as everyone else is. He's making valid arguments and responding to points people are making.

    We're allowed to disagree and have various thoughts.
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    AndreCSU

    [33]Dec 11, 2007
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    tjaman wrote:
    Jace is as entitled to his opinion as everyone else is. He's making valid arguments and responding to points people are making.

    We're allowed to disagree and have various thoughts.

    I couldn't agree more.
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  • Avatar of JaceJones

    JaceJones

    [34]Dec 11, 2007
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    Maybe it's the fact that Nip/Tuck is now aiming for a younger generation or something that I'm enjoying it. I'm 18. So idk...that's just my assumption.
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