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Nip/Tuck Forums

FX (ended 2010)

Season Premiere Epi 5.15 "Ronnie Chase" (Continuation of Season 5)

  • Avatar of micmol25

    micmol25

    [1]Jan 6, 2009
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    Thought I would start a new thread for last night's episode.

    I did a live blog of the episode and would love to hear other people's thoughts:

    http://michaelmoller.com/wordpress/archives/479

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  • Avatar of lncoots

    lncoots

    [2]Jan 7, 2009
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    Was it just me or did Christian look the worse he ever has...you think it is because he will have to "loose" weight when he starts the chemo?

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  • Avatar of pamlamadingdong

    pamlamadingdong

    [3]Jan 7, 2009
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    Decent return to the season; I went in expecting more, but forgot for a moment that this isn't really a "season premiere." Glad Crazy Bear Lady is gone. Hoping that Eden won't return either (isn't she busy with 90210 now?).

    At any rate, my biggest question after last night: Is Sean FAKING needing the wheelchair? When he first woke up after his dream and put his feet on the ground, I thought hey! He's motivated and he's going to walk! But the nonchalant way he strolled to the bathroom combined with upcoming scenes (possibile SPOILER ALERT!) that made it appear he's still in the chair for a little while made me think he's been faking this whole time. Which, let's face it, in Nip/Tuck world, is far more interesting. Did anyone else see it that way or am I just grasping at straws?

    Also, since I'm more interested in the upcoming scenes...

    POSSIBLE SPOILERS AHEAD...

    Is that LIZ in bed with Christian?? Awesome. Talk about a whole new level to Christian's most functional dysfunctional relationship.

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  • Avatar of tjaman

    tjaman

    [4]Jan 7, 2009
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    In the pilot episode, we had the assassination of a child-molesting drug dealer and the disposal of his body in a swamp intercut with scenes of an enthusiastically nekkid Julian McMahon snorting cocaine off Kelly Carlson's ass while taking her from behind set to the Rolling Stones singing "Fade to Black."

    Now we have pointless poppy electronica, a significantly more subdued Christian with stage-two breast cancer and Sean having wheelchair sex.

    And it would've only been moderately more interesting if they'd been having it with each other.

    See, I feel I can say this because I have been a strong advocate for this show from the very beginning. During its slow periods -- and there have been slow periods -- I've always been a loud and forceful voice within the ever-smaller "wait and see -- I'm sure this is going somewhere" contingent.

    But the sad fact is that the most interesting side stories Murph has ever come up with -- Ava, Kit, Quentin and Erica -- are in a evermore distant past. They killed off Escobar and ... hell, even Mrs. Grubman had her moments.

    I don't care about Olivia. I was done with Eden the moment she appeared on screen. Colleen never made any kind of sense. I'm entirely over Julia. I don't know how Matt can still be alive. And I know the cameras are not on Sean every step of the way, but how did we go this entire episode with no mention of Conor ...

    ... except ...

    ... wait for it ...

    Yes ... yes ... there it is ...

    ... we have ...

    BOBBY EWING IN THE SHOWER!

    Turns out that Conor McNamara 2026 was just a crazy acid trip Sean was having.

    And in a show that has been consistently over the top since its pilot episode, we have the original, the authentic, accept-no-substitutes Arthur Fonzarelli leather-jacket clad shark jumpage. The sizzling sound you hear is the fork Murph just jammed in a toaster and then slammed into a microwave and turned a camera on it.

    This show is going to run through 2011? No! No! It was good once! Seriously, stop drinking, get off the drugs and think really, really hard. Come up with one good final story arc, plot it out and land this thing before it just gets canceled for being ugly, dumb and pointless. Hell, the most interesting surgical procedure in this episode was conducted by Colleen. And the view shift to her for that sequence wasn't any more useful, because we were forced to notice that following her procedure, Sean should've had a collapsed lung and, based on the scars -- especially that vertical one within an inch of his spine -- catastrophic nerve damage disabling his left arm. He had no injuries to his lower extremities so his physical therapy, supporting himself by his arms while working his legs, that was nonsense -- never mind his operation of a wheelchair to begin with.

    But fine, no surgeries for him (all the better since he should entirely lack fine motor skills). He's taking a break to teach, and here we find ourselves with the plastic surgery equivalent of "Grey's Anatomy" -- a show that has also been played out for more than a year.

    See, I'm hoping the young surgeon they introduced is given a chance to improve his screen presence. But the sad reality of this show is he's just going to find himself in bed with Julia or Eden or Olivia or Annie or Matt and then discarded as so many dozens of other plot points our resident ADD impresario Murph has tired of and abandoned as storyline roadkill.

    Bright point: I do like the deepening relationship between Christian and Liz. There's been something familial there since before he donated his sperm for their stillborn child, and the bond has only gotten deeper. But even that looks like it's about to head in a really wrong direction. In fact, from the previews, it seems like all pretense of coherent thought will shortly be sailing right out the window.

    And when it crashes to the ground, it can be found next to the show's medical authority, its credibility, its character development, its intellectual excitement, its musical sensibility, a half-dozen intriguing but abandoned storylines and Gina's corpse.

    Stick a fork in it, Murph. This is done.
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  • Avatar of tguedry82

    tguedry82

    [5]Jan 7, 2009
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    Wonderful returning episode for me! I am so glad the show has returned! Once the revelation of what happened directly after the attack was over, I couldn't believe that it was already 1/2 over!

    I too had to remember that this was not a "premier" but a return of season 5. I think the rest of these episodes will make up for anything that could have been lacking thus far this season.

    I am also liking the chemistry between Liz and Christian. They've always had that spark hiding behind all of the hatred toward one another! LOL And in the previews for the rest of the season, it totally appears that they will be getting in on. Someone in another forum asked what else he could stick it in, I guess that answers that! The previews for the rest of the season really got me pumped though! I can't wait to find out everything

    Oh, another favorite part of mine was when Sean explained his dream! Even though I'm sure plenty of those who think the show has lost it's stuff will call that a cop out, I liked it! Ever since they've aired that "future" episode, too many people have been worried about how they couldn't kill anyone off that existed in that episode, but to me, it always seemed like a fantasy episode that I assumed they would explain later. So hopefully we won't have those complaints anymore!

    Edited on 01/07/2009 8:00am
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  • Avatar of 10nayr

    10nayr

    [6]Jan 7, 2009
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    Christian has breast cancer? How the hell can a man get that? From the sounds of the previews I was expecting him to be diagnosed with AIDS or something.
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  • Avatar of OKeric

    OKeric

    [7]Jan 7, 2009
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    10nayr wrote:
    Christian has breast cancer? How the hell can a man get that? From the sounds of the previews I was expecting him to be diagnosed with AIDS or something.
    Apparently it's becoming more common. Just get on google and type "male breast cancer". And you can learn all about it.
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  • Avatar of Drrd57

    Drrd57

    [8]Jan 7, 2009
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    Connor was mentioned. Sean: "[The Dream] It was just before Connor's surgery..."

    So no, Connor wasn't just a dream.

    Brownie points for picking up before the last ep left off. I was afraid they'd start with the "4 months later", which they almost did, but that scene needed to be played out.

    Negative points for having Sean do something to save himself (mess with Annie's anesthetic to trigger an alert) when for all he knew everyone else was out cold and Annie would die on the table. No fire alarm in the room?

    Could Christian have been any slower on the uptake? Liz at least seemed to know what had happened, and chose to save Annie rather than hunt down a missing/bleeding Sean. (Brownie points for her.) But Christian sees the evidence and looks way too confused and way too timid at the door. Yeah, he had a broken shoulder, but damn, man, kick in some adrenaline and grab something heavy and break that door down *before* you hear the bad guy's voice. Blood down the hall should have been more than enough to trigger a bigger, more panicked response than that.

    So then we skip ahead 4 months... Now Sean is teaching, so he's traded the tv-show cast for a student surgeon class to help make some story lines. (Negative points for Sean not even knowing who his students are.) And now, for some reason, they decide that they have to pull in the 'Christian is sicker' storyline? Like they couldn't find any stories about Sean's immediate surgeries and mental status to fill in *one* hour? And Christian not even talking with Liz about why he chose her rather than Sean to take Wilbur if he died? I'd agree with his choice, but wasn't it worth even a mention or consideration on how to talk to Sean about it.

    I think Liz and Christian are closer than Sean and Christian are, Sean just doesn't realize it yet. I've been getting the feeling that Sean is Christian's security blanket because Sean is the real skill and Christian's half-rate as a surgeon, and that's the only reason Christian freaks about Sean coming back. All the stuff Christian should be talking to Sean about, he goes to Liz. Previews about that for next week just made me go Yuck! Liz should be smarter than that!

    Yesterday I wondered if I cared enough to watch it, even just to see what happened out of curiosity rather than really caring anymore. I shouldn't have bothered.
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  • Avatar of tjaman

    tjaman

    [9]Jan 7, 2009
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    I didn't say Conor was a dream. I said the episode "Conor McNamara 2026" was all an acid flashforward and doesn't have anything to do with anything. The "It was all a dream" thing has been a huge joke since on the television show "Dallas" they decided an entire season was a dream -- Pam Ewing wakes up and finds her husband, Bobby -- who died in the previous season -- is taking a shower. Oy.
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  • Avatar of 10nayr

    10nayr

    [10]Jan 7, 2009
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    Well as long as none of the characters that appeared in Conor McNamara 2026 die the events of that can still happen.

    And even if male breast cancer is possible getting AIDS would be more realistic for Christian consider how much of an unsafe womanizer he is. And him being alive and perfectly healthy in that 20 years later episode could be chalked up to futuristic medical advances and a cure bring found.
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  • Avatar of Psyris

    Psyris

    [11]Jan 7, 2009
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    I was suprised (in a good way) that they debunked the whole flashforward thing as a reality; I guess Ryan Murphy does listen to the fans.

    It really is ridiculous the amount of misfortune that falls on these people's lives. They shouldn't have given Christian breast cancer, hell... there's lotsa of things they shouldn't have done; mostly all the major events of S4/S5. It's too late for NT to redeem itself in my eyes, but despite that I'm not going to stop watching it just yet due to my attachment to the characters.

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  • Avatar of loreleicorinne

    loreleicorinne

    [12]Jan 7, 2009
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    I think it's ironic that CHRISTIAN has breast cancer. Breast. Christian. Yeah. I'm glad it wasn't Liz, this is a better twist. And I already knew about male breast cancer. Men have "breasts" so to speak, we just rarely think of it that way.

    As far as Christians weight, when he was topless there I was kind of disappointed. What happened to the gorgeous abs?
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  • Avatar of Page_47

    Page_47

    [13]Jan 8, 2009
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    tjaman wrote:
    tjaman's post


    Sorry buddy, but there's only so many times you can feed a drug dealer to the 'gators and apparently that number is two. There are many things Nip/Tuck was that it no longer is, but being an acquired taste is not one of them. This is by no mean's an excuse for bad TV, but I would argue that the passion's not lost from this series, even if the execution has been wavering for some time now.

    After Tuesday's episode, it seems to me that Nip/Tuck remains a drama as firmly rooted inside the heads of its characters as it does outside in the real world. So, as per usual, the stakes on Tuesday were supposed to be just as high as they ever were - it's just we can't see them. If this is the case, then the problem I discern from this season of Nip/Tuck is that there's too much that goes unsaid. Sean's not talking enough about what he went through. Matt's not talking about how he didn't spin further out of control after Emmy, no one's talking about Annie, no one's talking about any backlash (forgive the pun) on Sean stabbing Colleen. So there's a lot of miscommunication between the characters, fine, but when this results in the same lack of communication with the viewer, and that results in negative feedback and cancelation. The stakes are supposed to be there, but if all the characters just act around them, how can anyone really tell? In this episode, the four months later scheme seemed like a total cop-out. Nip/Tuck used to be about the opening up ugly scars, not hiding behind them.

    That said, there was a lot to like about Ronnie Chase (although it's title was rubbish - was he the one with the hole-y ears?). For example, the opening scene was a blast. I think it's unfair to play it down because of it's soundtrack, which I incidentally very much enjoyed. I'm not entirely sure what Sean was trying to do with Annie's anesthesia, whether it was make keep her going or exacerbate her condition, but whatever it was, it was played well and resulted in two medical traumas occurring simultaneously, which made for a gripping moment of dramatic medical drama amidst the soapier elements of rest of the episode.
    The ending of the episode was pretty good too, with these two veterans of the insane standing in front of there mirrors and looking at how they've been scarred. It's a genuine shame that this episode couldn't have directly followed its predecessor, as it seems the whole point of the Colleen arc and the beginning of this cancer one is to portray the dangers that go unseen in the bright, shiny city of angels.
    Also, I couldn't help but notice how sharp the editing is on this show. As a post-production amateur myself, I can't help but admire the effort that goes into stitching up these scenes.

    However, it seems to me fair to say that Nip/Tuck is no longer at the crossroads, and that it crossed into displeasing territory a while ago. Along with a large chunk of the fanbase, I think this happened when they made the move to LA at the end of S4. Since then, we've had to sit through a number of injustices to the characters and their respective story arcs just to see what happens next. Along with you, tjaman, I wish that they'd end it sooner rather than later, if that's how they plan to continue things henceforth. But I still see the parts of this show that I love, and that makes me want to watch it 'til the end, despite its malignant problems, if only to find out where these characters are all going, because none of them seem to know, and I assume that's because Murphy doesn't either. Only time will tell.
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  • Avatar of tjaman

    tjaman

    [14]Jan 8, 2009
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    Part of what threw me out of the storytelling was Dylan's misdelivered line: "What does breast cancer have to do with anything?" The emphasis should've been on the words "breast cancer" because that was the new element Christian brought into the conversation, that was Sean's reaction line, and if Walsh had been thinking about it a little bit more and the director had been paying attention, then that scene would've been better. As it was, I was taken entirely out of the drama of that reveal.

    That's not to say I was especially pleased before, because -- now, my memory isn't perfect, but in the last episode I saw, Candy Richards, there was no guard or elevator or third floor. She strode from their waiting room into the gang of paparazzi on the sidewalk.

    Colleen had way too much alone time with a Sean who shouldn't have been able to breathe -- much less deliver a fatal stab to his assailant. I know Sharon Gless was just fluttering around hugging him and being silly at this point -- "Oh Seanie bear what have I done to you?" -- but she was still entirely whole, whereas Sean was losing blood by the gallon and mangled like he'd gone through a machine.
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  • Avatar of ltcomstella

    ltcomstella

    [15]Jan 8, 2009
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    well it was a good ep imo

    the manboob cancer was just put in for shock value and the writers are crap

    seans recovery as usuall all in the mind and i hope the young blonde student doesn't become seans new friend though i suspect she will as for raj or haj ? will become cristians stooge or pain in the ass surgery protege

    found the standard sex scenes funny sean hooking up with the barmaid ( as soon as she said hello can i help, i knew shes gonna get some sean lurve) and cris hooking up with the other hottie, and was a lil suprised he did a boob augment.

    matt doing something right for once heading in the conner 2026 direction..

    and as for the security guard what a dumbass. if a patient was that bad she'd be in hospital or would never have left the surgery...

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    seantuck

    [16]Jan 8, 2009
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    Season 5 has been my favorite of Nip/Tuck(Season 2 being very close) so this episode was a nice return to a great season!
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  • Avatar of Stingseven

    Stingseven

    [17]Jan 8, 2009
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    I was pretty happy with the episode as well. I'm surprised by all the griping about how the show isn't as good as it used to be; and even nitpicking over actor choices ("he should have emphasized breast cancer!" Seriously dude?); this ep was full of drama and the kind of discomfort that N/T loves to provide. My immediate thought was "why is Colleen's memorial service four months later" but of course, it was a dream. Sean was either faking his paralysis or it was psychosematically induced and the dream freed him. N/T is always Out There, and asking for realism on this show is like asking a seal to do a triple axel.
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  • Avatar of tjaman

    tjaman

    [18]Jan 8, 2009
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    Yes, seriously. Delivery is an element of acting ability, the choices actors make, part of thinking about your lines and the story you're telling.

    But that was just one minor detail of what was wrong with last night. I've touched on a dozen. And you needn't take my word that the show is at least trending downhill. In the past, there would've been something like 200 viewer comments in here by now. Seems like N/T returning from a year's hiatus is getting one big "who cares?"

    Incidentally, it's even harder for a seal to do a triple axel when it's been stabbed a bunch of times by a psycho.
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  • Avatar of thegamer516

    thegamer516

    [19]Jan 8, 2009
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    Drrd57 wrote:


    Negative points for having Sean do something to save himself (mess with Annie's anesthetic to trigger an alert) when for all he knew everyone else was out cold and Annie would die on the table. No fire alarm in the room?


    I didn't see Sean messing with anything, I thought that the alert went off while he was down on the floor and that he tried to fix the machine when she got him and took him away.
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  • Avatar of tguedry82

    tguedry82

    [20]Jan 9, 2009
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    thegamer516 wrote:
    Drrd57 wrote:
    Negative points for having Sean do something to save himself (mess with Annie's anesthetic to trigger an alert) when for all he knew everyone else was out cold and Annie would die on the table. No fire alarm in the room?
    I didn't see Sean messing with anything, I thought that the alert went off while he was down on the floor and that he tried to fix the machine when she got him and took him away.

    I have to agree, I don't think he was trying to save himself, but to save Annie before he couldn't help her. I've got no medical knowledge though, other than watching way too many medical dramas!! But I was thinking those anesthesia stations need to be monitored pretty closely and maybe she was going into distress with no one watching. So I just thought he was trying to adjust it to give her more of whatever she needed or something.

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