Season 2 Episode 9

Rose & Raven Rosenberg

Aired Wednesday 10:00 PM Aug 17, 2004 on FX

Episode Fan Reviews (7)

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out of 10
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  • Both

    "Both of us. Until the end of times. No matter what. It really doesn´t matter if we want it or not. It´s not a matter of willing, it´s just fate. And, it is worth saying it with open arms, face it!, we love each other so much. Despite of all the pain, despite of all the fights, all the unconscious damage we´ve caused to each other."

    Decisivo tercer capítulo de la trilogía imperdible. Analogía: dos gemelos siameses deben ser separados por dos doctores que desean separarse. Luego termina muriendo una de las chicas y Sean y Christian haciendo un trío con una prostituta simil Julia. Delirante.
  • Can We Still Be Friends? One of the best episode's ever!

    Hello all! I've been wanting to review this episode for a long time. To begin with, this is one of my favorite episodes of the series so far. After watching five seasons in two years time, this episode is still one of the show's richest and finest installments third to Joan Rivers and Adelle Coffin.
    I really loved the surgery aspect of the episode since it ties so true to Sean & Christian. The fighting duo travel to New York City to perform an operation on conjoined twins Rose & Raven who wish to be separated. Meanwhile, at the same time Sean & Christian are getting a "divorce" and splitting their practice because of Julia. Julia? Puh-leaze. Well I liked Julia in Season 2 so I guess its OK. But what Julia evolves into in Season 5 is pretty awful.
    Everybody in this episode is looking for somewhere to belong. There's a wonderful scene in the cafeteria of the university where they are residing where Sean looks over at two young students studying when a blonde girl walks over. This is definitely intended to be a symbolism of who Sean and Christian once were. Christian leached off of Sean and Sean is the reason for his true success while Christian drank and boinked every girl in sight.
    I won't spoil what happens during the twins' surgery but its pretty profound and poignant. They both wanted to experience this together but if one died, the other did not wish to live. Its like they want to be separate but need each other at the same time. Despite their flaws, Sean and Christian were made for each other as both friends and partners. The best moment of the episode was when Sean and Christian had a threesome with a hooker while smoking pot and shagging the crap out of her. They pretend she's Julia, share her and then reconcile. All this at the same time that Todd Rundgren's song "Can We Still Be Friends" plays in the background. What an awesome and wise music choice. I seriously love the music coordinator on this show. Between this, Don't Fear the Reaper and The Flower Duet playing during the surgery, I feel like Ryan Murphy and myself share the same iPod.
    Seriously, I can't say enough good things about this episode. It was truly a groundbreaking surgery, great conclusion from last week's thrilling installment and was overall a step in the right direction. I love this show, still do but this is really a fine example of why I and many watch the show.
  • Stuck Together, Torn Apart

    It's a transparent metaphor, but undoubtedly a powerful one. Like Rose and Raven Rosenberg, Sean and Christian can be split apart, but they'll never be as strong as individuals. The two together is where the talent happens.

    The most interesting aspect of the episode, at least from my perspective, was the honesty of Sean and Christian's sex lives. While flying to New York, Sean asked Christian some deeply personal questions over his sexual obsession with Julia and the night they spent together. Christian surprisingly answers all questions honestly, realizing he owes him that. The threesome was also interesting, with both Sean and Christian stuck in a world where they both have Julia.

    I loved that they cast real-life conjoined twins for the roles of Rose and Raven. It made the episode a lot more realistic, and I liked that the question-and-answer session between the doctors and the Rosenberg's seemed really improvised, like the Schappell's were actually being asked those questions there and then. The prosthetics used for the separated twins were also really impressive. I imagine they were extremely difficult to build, so congrats to the effects team for making them look so realistic.

    A sad but ultimately hopeful episode which features several moving storylines. They could never keep Sean and Christian apart for a long while, and their reunion was expected, but I liked that they paralleled the twins' operation with the surgeon's own separation.

    Director: Elodie Keene
    Writers: Ryan Murphy, Brad Falchuk
    Rating: A
  • Conjoined twins need to be seperated because one has cancer and they both cannot survive the treatment. The twins become a mirror/metaphor for showing Sean and Christian how their relationship works and they, too, cannot be separated.

    This episode was a great example of Ryan's gift of writing. Taking the tangible: the Rosenburg twins and their struggle for life and love of one another and mirroring the intagible - Sean and Christian's love for each and their relationship. No matter how imperfect a relatioship is, it survives for a reason. Each party invovled must accept that or it will fall apart and each will die. One cannot live without the other. Excellent episode.
  • Sean: (to Christian) "There's no statue of limitations on being a backstabbing assh*le. After what you did, how could I ever trust you again?"

    There's a nice subtle awkwardness between the members of the McNamara family now. The breakfast between Matt and Sean most accurately displayed that, as Sean tried to frankly discuss with Matt how he feels about finding out that Christian's his father to no positive results. While Matt did tell Sean that he was his real father, not Christian, it felt cold and rehearsed and not like Matt really meant it. The one thing Matt has inherited from Sean is his habit to isolate his emotions from others, and as a result half the time I have no idea what’s going on in his head.

    Matt did show that he has lost respect for both of his parents as he yelled at both of them today. I don't think Matt even knows what he's truly feeling, as first he criticizes Sean for kicking out Julia then he shouts at Julia for ruining the family. He just has a lot of anger pilled up inside of him, and his sense of betrayal added to his feelings of fury are what's causing him to isolate himself from his family with Ava; which can’t lead to anything good.

    Our main patients of the week were Rose and Raven Rosenberg, two conjoined twins who wanted to be seperated. The two twins were symbolic for the state of Sean's relationship with Christian, and Sean's want to dismantle their practice. Sean comes to the conclusion at the end of the episode though, like Mrs. Rosenberg did about her daughters, that he and Christian are stronger together than apart.

    We got a good examination of Christian and Sean's friendship, present and past today, and as much as I hated seeing them bickering and apart for the episode I was glad we didn't get a nice wrapped up solution for their problem. Sean has told Christian, as he rightfully should, that he will never be able to forgive him for what he did, but that he's willing to continue the practice with him. While I know in time their shattered friendship will heal, will things ever be completely the same?

    Final Notes and Quotes

    - Character Tidbits: Sean and Christian each earn about 1.4 million dollars a year.

    - I thought Sean and Christian’s Q&A on the plane was well done. The only way their friendship will ever recover is if all their secrets are out in the open.

    - Sean: "Isn't this what you've always wanted Christian? Isn't this your dream? Being part of Julia and I here, not being the outsider looking in?"

    - The song Can We Still Be Friends was a perfect choice for Sean and Christian’s Ménage a trios with the Julia look-alike hooker. "We can't play this game anymore, but still can we be friends?"

    - Liz: "You're not just dismantling a business. You're dismantling a family."

    - I’m starting an Outstanding Performance of the Week award, and this week it goes to Dylan Walsh for his portrayal of Sean struggling to examine and repair his rocky friendship with Christian.

    - Matt: "I'm going to Ava's."

    Julia: “You’re seeing her again?"

    Matt: "At least I can trust her. She's the only real adult in my life."

    When the only person you can trust is a manipulative pedophile, you know you’re going through rough times.

    Final Rating: Another great episode. 3 out of 4 stars.

    - Tim Bronx
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  • The Two Of Us Written by Ryan Murphy And Brad Falchuk Directed by Elodie Keene


    With last week’s episode, it comes as no surprise that McNamara and Troy are on the rocks and we’re even less surprised to learn that Sean wants to dismantle the business and cast aside Christian but before these two can separate, they’ve been assigned the case of separating conjoined twins Rose and Raven Rosenberg and the pro-bono keen Sean is determined to even tolerate Christian long enough to perform the historic operation. I thought last week’s instalment largely featured the main patient but the twins in this episode serve as a wonderful allegory of Sean and Christian’s shattered friendship and overall dependence of one another.

    Learning of Matt’s biology and throwing Julia out of the house has forced both surgeons to a look at each other as well as taking pot shots of one another. Emotionally blackmailing Liz to choose a partner to ally herself with, Sean blasting Christian’s abilities as a surgeon and Christian swiping at Sean’s sexual prowess. A lot of this behaviour is rather childish but believable to watch and as much as I don’t want to see McNamara and Troy dismantled, I don’t want a cheesy rip-off with the guys either. While the surgery proves to be a failure (Raven dies of a blood haemorrhage and Mrs Rosenberg cuts off Rose’s life-support in order to reunite the sisters), there are several scenes where Sean and Christian despite their hostility nearly reconnect.

    The main patients’ death and Mrs Rosenberg’s own eulogy of the girls by Rose’s bed gave Sean enough to realise as a business unit, him and Christian work. This realisation is also helped with the fact Sean picks up a Julia look alike prostitute named Renee and subsequently him and Christian get stoned and have a three way with Renee. When it comes to sex, it’s usually so loud and rampant, you actually wonder why the bed strings don’t actually give way but this ménage a trios is so quiet in comparison to usual Nip/Tuck, it’s unsettling. Is it bad? Hell no but not the usual norm on this show in regards to sex. The flashing back and forth between Julia and Renee in the three-way is what really gave the scene a lot weight. Still though, if Sean can set aside differences with Christian, then surely he can try and be civil with Julia for Matt’s sake, if no-one else’s.

    Julia didn’t appear that much in this episode but when she did the poor woman was almost vilified by everyone. Sean blatantly ignored her calls, Matt verbally abused her left, right and centre, which okay isn’t a shocker but after what he tried to say to Sean about her in the beginning of the episode, is a tad hypocritical. It got bad that even Julia started to doubt herself. Even Christian looked pained in the cafeteria when he was talking to her on the phone, though that had a lot to with Sean being around. As much as I felt bad for Julia, her scenes (bar the three-way) added very little to the hour and maybe it would’ve been better had she not have featured in the episode after all.

    Also in “Rose And Raven Rosenberg”

    Other POTW: Sean and Christian were doing a liposuction while arguing over who Liz should work for.

    Christian: “I’m your brother Sean”
    Sean: “Brothers don’t sleep with each others wives”.

    Liz (to Christian): “Computers and carpets are assets, Christian. I am a person with feelings who thinks being shot for the both of you entitles her to an explanation”.

    There was no opening surgery, no tell me what you don’t like about yourself spiel for a change.

    Rose (to Dr Atherton): “We share tissue and bone, not feelings”.

    The girls had neurosurgeons, vascular surgeons and specialists asking various questions. Operation wise, Sean and Christian were kitted out in red while everyone else was in white, green or yellow.

    Matt (to Julia): “You want me to help you move out of our house after you destroyed our family? Who the hell do you think you are?”

    We got exact information on how Sean and Christian met – Christian paid for Sean’s lunch, Sean tutored him. We also saw a mini version of Sean, Christian and Julia in the college cafeteria.

    Doctor (re Rose): “Maybe she knows her sister is gone and she’s giving up”
    Sean: “She’s not giving up. She can survive on her own”.

    Renee: “Do you think I should get a boob-job?”
    Sean: “You already did”.

    Chronology wise, I think it’s the summer of 2004 (late June/early July), given a summer festival seems to be on during the Rosenberg surgery.

    Julia/Renee: “We’ll always be together. Is that how you want me to say it?”
    Sean: “Yes”
    Christian: “Yes”.

    Standout music: “Don’t Fear The Reaper by Blue Oyster Cult and “Can We Still Be Friends” by Todd Rundgren.

    An interesting departure from the usual dynamic of the series, “Rose And Raven Rosenberg” is a well thought out and harrowing episode and while not quite as good as the previous two, it does hit some excellent buttons and is an ambitious episode with a more than satisfying pay off.
  • Dare I go as far as to say "best episode ever"?

    After the previous episode and Sean's attack on Christian, the episode opens in a legal representative's office. Their conflict still fresh from the previous episode, they are here to seperate the business and start out by themselves- arguing the whole time throughtout the scene and speech by the advisor.

    Before the business seperation is complete however, Sean and Christian have one legendary surgery left, one that will forever be the highpoint of their career, seperating conjoined twins. The operation takes place in NYC, and sees doctors and surgeons from all around meeting to take part in such a high profile medical operation. Rather interestingly, Sean and Christian have to both sit in the same seats on the plane, and share a room.

    The scenes on the plane are brilliant, and sees the two almost trying to resolve what went wrong. Sean just asks question after question about his partner and Julia, Christian all along staying calm and relaxed for the most part. It's always interesting hearing about character backstories pre-show, and this is no exception. Since the truth about Matt's father was unveiled, a lot of things has changed in Nip/Tuck, and a lot of histroy has also been brought up. Like Sean requested, Julia is now out of the house and living by herself, despite Matt still claiming that he sees Sean as being his father.

    The patients themselves, Rose and Raven, are clearly symbolic, and references towards Sean and Christian are made the whole time throughout the operation and their seperating. At the "press-conference" doctors are allowed to ask the two patients questions, the most memorable being the ones along the lines of being by yourself and without someone else, much like the two doctors themselves. Aswell as this, a further scenes involves two students arguing, one with the girl while the other studies. Very remiscent of their past. They themselves notice these similarities, but press on with seperation regardless.

    While in NYC, the two doctors, still arguing, start to enjoy themselves, and it's not long before they make up. A mistake made by Christian during the surgery causes one of the twins to die, and it's not long before Sean has problems too, despite being able to get back on track. They soon realise that they're better as a duo rather than individuals when it comes to both business, and parenting.

    Regardless of the one make up though, Sean remains angry at Julia for not telling him, and meets a girl in the bar where he's staying. He brings her back to his and Christian's room, and after some debate, bizzarely they both decide to sleep with her, the duo both pretending it's really Julia they're with, in perhaps one of the weirdest Nip/Tuck scenes yet.

    Their relationship fixed, the two doctors decide to carry on as a duo...