Numb3rs Forums

CBS (ended 2010)

It was a great series while it lasted.

  • Avatar of Guairdean

    Guairdean

    [1]Oct 10, 2008
    • member since: 04/24/07
    • level: 1
    • rank: Weatherman
    • posts: 7

    Numb3rs has taken the first step towards the end. Many years ago I noticed a trend in television. When the writers and producers want an easy out, they bring in a "Super Villian". The super villian is all knowing and all powerful. No one can stand against the super villian, but the plucky band of heroes headlining the show always manage to stay one step ahead. The Numb3rs writers introduced the super villian tonight. He's an FBI agent that Don and Charlie must defeat in order to reinstate Charlie's security clearance and save Don's career. Numb3r's charm has always been the dynamics between the characters, and the way the characters work as a team to find the answer. Those dynamics were tossed away in favor of a cheap political statement. Unfortunately, it seems that the best replacement for those dynamics that the writers can provide is the fallback super villian. I rarely miss an episode of Numb3rs, but if this is the future, I'll find something else to do with the time. Super villians are ok for an episode or two, but they get boring very quickly.

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  • Avatar of KSC76

    KSC76

    [2]Oct 10, 2008
    • member since: 04/19/08
    • level: 7
    • rank: Talk Show Host
    • posts: 158

    ( Guairdean) I don't agree with you at all every series as A villain that's what makes the series allot more interesting & this second episode of (NUMB3RS) was very exciting with allot of action it was awesome & I know Keith,Carradine will do A very good job of playing A villain he has in the pass. This episode about ATM killing was very interesting & I felt really bad for Charlie when it dawn on him that Don job would be on the line. Nikki newest member of the team liked her allot she did A very brave job by going undercover to help catch the ATM robbers. I will give this episode A BIG Ratings #10 from me there #1 Fan. I think the series will run 2 more :season before we have to say GOOD-BYE to (NUMB3RS) KSC76 (GUAIRDEAN) It's still is A G-R-E-A-T S-E-R-I-S-E Your not a very nice fan of (NUMB3RS) .........:

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  • Avatar of Guairdean

    Guairdean

    [3]Oct 11, 2008
    • member since: 04/24/07
    • level: 1
    • rank: Weatherman
    • posts: 7
    Numb3rs has the ability to remain a great series, but it can't remain great by moving away from the things that made it great. Keith Carradine can portray an excellent villain, but should any series base itself on a single villain? None that have tried have ever survived. Is it in the best interest of the series when the writers and producers take the easy way and rely on simple, unimaginative plot lines? Every series that has fallen into that trap has failed. Numb3rs became a hit because each episode has something unique to offer, and each character has something unique to add. A simplistic plotline where two of the protagonists fight the same villain (Carradine in this case) each and every episode only takes time from the other characters, weakens the show, and bores the fans. I tune in to see complex plots and complex solutions. If the future plots are going to spend half the episode pitting Don and Charlie against an unassailable opponent, things will get boring. It doesn't matter to me if I'm a bad fan or not. I watch the show to be entertained. I owe them nothing. Their sponsors fund the show because I'm there to see the commercials. They owe me, as a fan, entertainment. When the entertainment's gone, so am I. I don't expect the series to survive into next year if the writers and producers continue with the "super villain" plot line.
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  • Avatar of Gnidrolog

    Gnidrolog

    [4]Oct 11, 2008
    • member since: 10/03/06
    • level: 5
    • rank: Caveman Lawyer
    • posts: 242
    I agree here. Nikki and her "ghetto chick makes good" persona are totally useless here. The story lines have gotten worse, Don has even less personality than before(if that's possible), Larry has become a caricature of himself, Alan is just plain annoying, and Charlie has been reduced to the role of a martyr. It's time to pull the plug!
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  • Avatar of KSC76

    KSC76

    [5]Oct 12, 2008
    • member since: 04/19/08
    • level: 7
    • rank: Talk Show Host
    • posts: 158
    Gnidrolog!!!!!!!! Your not A very true Fan of ( NUMB3RS) anymore & that's okay there other one will disagree with you & agree with you everyone in tidal to there own opinion I think season 5 of ( NUMB3Rs) the to new episode were awesome & very well written & tastefully acted by all the characters & as for Judd,Hirsch character Alan,Eppes he play him brilliantly well I'm A big Judd,Hirsch fan...........
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  • Avatar of KSC76

    KSC76

    [6]Oct 13, 2008
    • member since: 04/19/08
    • level: 7
    • rank: Talk Show Host
    • posts: 158
    Hello!!!!! Guairdean, I may have disagree with you but I think everyone has there right to his or her opinion. I believe it's going to do very well & I hope they won't cancel my #1 series in my book & other ones books as well. I like A villain in some story lines & I Think the writers & producers are doing A brilliant job & are villain not going be around for the whole season unless they keep bringing him back to stir up trouble for the Eppes Brothers. I still fine the series very entertaining & enjoyable to watch weekly. I like all the math problem I don't always understand them but I try. I think if you hang in there Guairdean the series will get back to normal for you & all the fan's of (NUMB3RS)..............
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  • Avatar of evilmonkey_102

    evilmonkey_102

    [7]Oct 14, 2008
    • member since: 09/26/05
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 611

    KSC76 wrote:
    Hello!!!!! Guairdean, I may have disagree with you but I think everyone has there right to his or her opinion. I believe it's going to do very well & I hope they won't cancel my #1 series in my book & other ones books as well. I like A villain in some story lines & I Think the writers & producers are doing A brilliant job & are villain not going be around for the whole season unless they keep bringing him back to stir up trouble for the Eppes Brothers. I still fine the series very entertaining & enjoyable to watch weekly. I like all the math problem I don't always understand them but I try. I think if you hang in there Guairdean the series will get back to normal for you & all the fan's of (NUMB3RS)..............

    I totally agree with you 250% all the way....

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  • Avatar of numb3rsgirl13

    numb3rsgirl13

    [8]Oct 14, 2008
    • member since: 02/06/08
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 167
    Guairdean wrote:

    Numb3rs has taken the first step towards the end. Many years ago I noticed a trend in television. When the writers and producers want an easy out, they bring in a "Super Villian". The super villian is all knowing and all powerful. No one can stand against the super villian, but the plucky band of heroes headlining the show always manage to stay one step ahead. The Numb3rs writers introduced the super villian tonight. He's an FBI agent that Don and Charlie must defeat in order to reinstate Charlie's security clearance and save Don's career. Numb3r's charm has always been the dynamics between the characters, and the way the characters work as a team to find the answer. Those dynamics were tossed away in favor of a cheap political statement. Unfortunately, it seems that the best replacement for those dynamics that the writers can provide is the fallback super villian. I rarely miss an episode of Numb3rs, but if this is the future, I'll find something else to do with the time. Super villians are ok for an episode or two, but they get boring very quickly.



    I have to also disagree with u. this season is really showing what Charlie is all about and what he can really stand. That FBI agent is a jerk, but i think the Eppes brothers will prevail!!! Also, i disagree with u on the statement about don's personality. i think david & colby said it best when they said "youre lucky u got him post-therapy. Pre-therapy he would have given you 10-11 weeks." Now, there is a new conflict where don and charlie are beginning to build up that wall again between them that was beginning to diminish because of wat charlie did last season. i really am excited to see how they resolve it this time. OMG...... there is going to be an episode called charlie dont surf!!!!!!!! that aught to be good!!

    -Sam :p
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  • Avatar of a_g_p

    a_g_p

    [9]Oct 15, 2008
    • member since: 02/19/07
    • level: 4
    • rank: Thighmaster
    • posts: 26
    hey, you can't bury the show while it's still running...

    numb3rs is still my number 1 show. i hope for one more season and a proper emotional, tearful, funny, intelligent 2-hours-final episode

    i start to mention that so the writers can get their pens out

    at the moment i'm not that funny-excited-in-love with the show but i guess when it's later in this season it will get back on track. let's hope and stick together
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  • Avatar of sue2310

    sue2310

    [10]Oct 20, 2008
    • member since: 07/18/07
    • level: 6
    • rank: Small Wonder
    • posts: 115
    Guairdean wrote:
    Numb3rs has the ability to remain a great series, but it can't remain great by moving away from the things that made it great. Keith Carradine can portray an excellent villain, but should any series base itself on a single villain? None that have tried have ever survived. Is it in the best interest of the series when the writers and producers take the easy way and rely on simple, unimaginative plot lines? Every series that has fallen into that trap has failed. Numb3rs became a hit because each episode has something unique to offer, and each character has something unique to add. A simplistic plotline where two of the protagonists fight the same villain (Carradine in this case) each and every episode only takes time from the other characters, weakens the show, and bores the fans. I tune in to see complex plots and complex solutions. If the future plots are going to spend half the episode pitting Don and Charlie against an unassailable opponent, things will get boring. It doesn't matter to me if I'm a bad fan or not. I watch the show to be entertained. I owe them nothing. Their sponsors fund the show because I'm there to see the commercials. They owe me, as a fan, entertainment. When the entertainment's gone, so am I. I don't expect the series to survive into next year if the writers and producers continue with the "super villain" plot line.


    Are you watching the same show as the rest of us!!! On a single villan, Carradine is only going to be in a few episodes and I have cetainly seen more than one bad guy in the first 3 episodes. Numb3rs still offers unique viewing and we all knew Charlie was not going to find it easy getting his clearence back and I quite like the twist of it becoming more of a fishing expedition to get rid of Don, what were you expecting some nice guy to just give the clearence back? Now that wouldn't be entertainment. I see no evidence of a 'super villian' plot line and putting Don, Charlie and the team up against seemingly unassailable opponents is a part of the show otherwise they will be taking on petty thieves. As you say you watch the show to be entertained, if this doesn't entertain you you have a remote try another channel. The writing on this show is exceptional. Not quite understanding the rest of your rant about who oweing who, sponsors etc.
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  • Avatar of KSC76

    KSC76

    [11]Oct 21, 2008
    • member since: 04/19/08
    • level: 7
    • rank: Talk Show Host
    • posts: 158
    Sue2310 Total agree with you 250% all the way.
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  • Avatar of Guairdean

    Guairdean

    [12]Oct 22, 2008
    • member since: 04/24/07
    • level: 1
    • rank: Weatherman
    • posts: 7

    sue2310 wrote:
    Guairdean wrote:
    Numb3rs has the ability to remain a great series, but it can't remain great by moving away from the things that made it great. Keith Carradine can portray an excellent villain, but should any series base itself on a single villain? None that have tried have ever survived. Is it in the best interest of the series when the writers and producers take the easy way and rely on simple, unimaginative plot lines? Every series that has fallen into that trap has failed. Numb3rs became a hit because each episode has something unique to offer, and each character has something unique to add. A simplistic plotline where two of the protagonists fight the same villain (Carradine in this case) each and every episode only takes time from the other characters, weakens the show, and bores the fans. I tune in to see complex plots and complex solutions. If the future plots are going to spend half the episode pitting Don and Charlie against an unassailable opponent, things will get boring. It doesn't matter to me if I'm a bad fan or not. I watch the show to be entertained. I owe them nothing. Their sponsors fund the show because I'm there to see the commercials. They owe me, as a fan, entertainment. When the entertainment's gone, so am I. I don't expect the series to survive into next year if the writers and producers continue with the "super villain" plot line.
    Are you watching the same show as the rest of us!!! On a single villan, Carradine is only going to be in a few episodes and I have cetainly seen more than one bad guy in the first 3 episodes. Numb3rs still offers unique viewing and we all knew Charlie was not going to find it easy getting his clearence back and I quite like the twist of it becoming more of a fishing expedition to get rid of Don, what were you expecting some nice guy to just give the clearence back? Now that wouldn't be entertainment. I see no evidence of a 'super villian' plot line and putting Don, Charlie and the team up against seemingly unassailable opponents is a part of the show otherwise they will be taking on petty thieves. As you say you watch the show to be entertained, if this doesn't entertain you you have a remote try another channel. The writing on this show is exceptional. Not quite understanding the rest of your rant about who oweing who, sponsors etc.

    Yes, I'm watching the same show that you are watching, but I'm watching it without the rose colored glasses. I've seen far too many series fail because the writers and producers either get burned out, lazy, or cheap. Writers can do a great job for a season or two, but they can't be brilliant forever. Sometimes you have to bring in fresh blood. Producers often try to ride on past success and miss the fact that the series is dying. Other times, the producers see that they have a hit and let the writers drift away because they won't pay for creativity. After all, it's the stars that are important, not the writers. Numb3rs has been a success because the plot lines were diverse, and, as you say, the writing has been exceptional. At least it was in the past. The future writing is yet to be seen. Each crime was plausible and each criminal was human. Carradine is neither. He has no superior that can be appealed to, and no rules to live by. His emotional decision will determine the fate of Charlie and Don's careers. He will eventually rule in their favor. After all, they are the stars. How long will the writers drag out their "Double Secret Probation"? Hopefully not long enough for it to overshadow the rest of the show. If it does, I will use the remote and find something else. If enough viewers find something else, the show will end. The last lines of my post were directed at those who classify me as a bad fan because I presented a negative view of the direction of the show. My view is that an honest negative report is far better for the future of the show than a Pollyanna attitude that sees only the good.

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  • Avatar of ilee1990

    ilee1990

    [13]Oct 22, 2008
    • member since: 02/14/08
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 223

    I think that you problem is that you are reading way too much into things. You have developed an opinion of Carradine's character that is based on nothing but your opinion. Also, if you were following along, you'd know that Charlie gets his clearance back in this upcoming episode.

    Just because you don't approve of a particular storyline doesn't mean that the writers are getting lazy or that the show no sucks. Obviously, a lot of viewers disagree with you. Your self centered opinions are something that you are entitled to but it doesn't make you right.

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  • Avatar of ilee1990

    ilee1990

    [14]Oct 22, 2008
    • member since: 02/14/08
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 223

    numb3rsgirl13 wrote:
    Guairdean wrote:
    I have to also disagree with u. this season is really showing what Charlie is all about and what he can really stand. That FBI agent is a jerk, but i think the Eppes brothers will prevail!!! Also, i disagree with u on the statement about don's personality. i think david & colby said it best when they said "youre lucky u got him post-therapy. Pre-therapy he would have given you 10-11 weeks." Now, there is a new conflict where don and charlie are beginning to build up that wall again between them that was beginning to diminish because of wat charlie did last season. i really am excited to see how they resolve it this time. OMG...... there is going to be an episode called charlie dont surf!!!!!!!! that aught to be good!! -Sam :p

    Actually, they have grown closer over the events of last season. There is no wall between in this season and that was quite evident this last episode when they both stood up for each other. They have come a long way since season 1.

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  • Avatar of sue2310

    sue2310

    [15]Oct 23, 2008
    • member since: 07/18/07
    • level: 6
    • rank: Small Wonder
    • posts: 115
    [QUOTE="Guairdean"]

    [QUOTE="sue2310"]

    Guairdean wrote:
    Yes, I'm watching the same show that you are watching, but I'm watching it without the rose colored glasses.

    Guess they are blacked out glasses you are wearing, you have just insulted every TV show that has gone further than a couple of seasons, all Numbr3rs fans/viewers and shown no respect to writers and character development.

    Have you ever thought of working for the SciFi channel, you seem to have the same misconcepted view of what viwers want and don't want, you'd fit in just great there.

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  • Avatar of Guairdean

    Guairdean

    [16]Oct 23, 2008
    • member since: 04/24/07
    • level: 1
    • rank: Weatherman
    • posts: 7
    [QUOTE="sue2310"][QUOTE="Guairdean"]

    sue2310 wrote:
    Guairdean wrote:
    Yes, I'm watching the same show that you are watching, but I'm watching it without the rose colored glasses.

    Guess they are blacked out glasses you are wearing, you have just insulted every TV show that has gone further than a couple of seasons, all Numbr3rs fans/viewers and shown no respect to writers and character development.

    Have you ever thought of working for the SciFi channel, you seem to have the same misconcepted view of what viwers want and don't want, you'd fit in just great there.

    I found this Forum while looking for information on Charlie's actions. I didn't expect great revelations, but sometimes word leaks out about future directions for a show. The direction the show is headed bothers me and I decided to post a message about my concerns. Unfortunately, I didn't realize that the only messages allowed are "Sunshine and Happiness" messages. Enjoy the show, hopefully it will survive. If it doesn't, try not to end up like Eddie Seidel. Don't expect any more repies, I won't be back.

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  • Avatar of ashtray4241

    ashtray4241

    [17]Oct 23, 2008
    • member since: 09/10/06
    • level: 7
    • rank: Talk Show Host
    • posts: 37
    hmmm... Super-Villain introduced, and the show has failed...thats an interesting opinion. Like the Tritter storyline in House in season 2. Though disliked by some, that show is still top tier and in season 5....
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  • Avatar of lynna12000

    lynna12000

    [18]Oct 24, 2008
    • member since: 01/19/08
    • level: 21
    • rank: Snagglepuss
    • posts: 2,437
    If this is what a failing show looks like, I'd like to see more shows 'fail' in the same way. Guairdean, I've seen a LOT of shows come and go, and many of them have far out stayed their welcome. Numb3rs has not even come close to showing signs of failure, or of overstaying it's welcome....

    Look at it this way, when Numb3rs finally does go off to the episode vault in the sky, you can say that you saw it coming with your clairvoyant powers.

    In the mean time, you can sit back, relax, and enjoy a pleasant Friday evening watching the Epps boys and company. Or you can watch some other show that does not disappoint you so much. I'm planning on sticking around to enjoy the show.
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  • Avatar of CRaivios

    CRaivios

    [19]Oct 24, 2008
    • member since: 05/21/08
    • level: 21
    • rank: Snagglepuss
    • posts: 2,543

    This has been crazy. One person thinks the show is going downhill and posted a topic up for discussion on a website frequented by rabid fans. Poster leaves when others do not agree. It is disgusting is to bring up the death of a disturbed young man who will never turn 16. While we fans here at TV.com all enjoy this show, we all also have a life.

    Numb3rs does not have a problem with its writing or direction. I can say this because I am also a fan of House, which has had a multitude of problems over the last two seasons. I was also a fan of Highlander The Series. Don't even think about asking me about its season six.

    And good luck finding something else to watch on Friday nights.

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  • Avatar of sfchemist

    sfchemist

    [20]Nov 23, 2008
    • member since: 05/28/08
    • level: 7
    • rank: Talk Show Host
    • posts: 103

    This isn't going to be popular. But I kinda understand what Guairdean is saying. At least in so far as the sheer volume of episodes produced affects the quality of the production. British TV series generally consist of around six episodes and we are lucky if we get four or five series, but this means you never get to see your favourite show go off the boil, you're always left wanting more. Compare this to the American series of 20+ episodes and you can understand why many American show start to flag after a few series.

    In my experience, American shows only really find their feet around series 2 or 3. Season 4 and 5 tend to be a bit wobbly for all shows and they rally for the final couple of years before ending after season 7 (I know shows like ER, Friends and, I think, Monk have lasted longer but I don't know them well enough to comment on their quality). CRaivios has mentioned the problems House has been suffering and I'd have to agree and add that House in no way follows what I just said. Basically this is my way of saying that if the "super villain" plot (which has already played out) is the worst piece of writing for Numb3rs then we are very lucky.

    As for the "Pollyanna attitude" (nice reference btw, you don't see enough Pollyanna references), I agree here as well. This should be a forum that allows for critical discussion of Numb3rs not just mindless bashing (from either side) and I'm sorry that we have chased away a member who could of allowed for some very spirited discussions.

    Edited on 11/23/2008 7:28am
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