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My daughter & I used to love this show so much. We couldn't wait for Sunday nights to watch what would happen next to such interesting characters. However, this season has been so…tedious and dedicated to Frozen that we haven't enjoyed it. Honestly, we're bored, pure and simple. We've found ourselves not really caring what happens to the main characters b/c their story lines are weird and uninteresting. I guess by the time you get to the fourth season in a show like this, you've probably already used your best ideas. I'm wondering if they introduced the Frozen storyline so THAT storyline could become the major focus and have our old favorites fit into that theme instead of the other way around. My daughter and I have never seen Frozen, so we can't even attribute our boredom to the fact that we're already familiar with the characters and their story. Nothing important seems to happen that makes us care how things will be resolved for the characters we used to love. The whole show has just become, well, tedious. As a diehard fan for everything prior to this season, I'm sad to say that we're done.
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I found the first season very interesting but I was lost and fell out of interest with season 2 and 3. Am I the only one feeling the writers write as they go along, without a specific goal and story line?
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No, I've been feeling that way for quite a while. There are a lot of continuity errors for example, which is par for the course for many television shows, but which runs outrageously rampant on a non-satirical show like Once. For example, the Enchanted Forest pre-Dark Curse timeline doesn't make a lot of sense when you try to map out Snow's and Cinderella's pregnancies (or Cinderella's storyline in general). Leopold willingly marrying Regina knowing that she was Cora's daughter (Adam apparently admitted via twitter that Leopold recognized Cora) makes zero sense after the events of "Bleeding Out." Hook leaving Neverland the first time in concert with Neal's departure and Wendy's capture doesn't make sense. Due to continuity problems, Regina ends up realizing Cora planned the runaway horse rescue...twice. That's without a memory spell or any other rational explanation for her sudden realization of something she'd already realized in an earlier episode.

I really don't think they plan much out at all. They have goals, I think lots of goals, but they don't have plans, and that's where the problems begin. I mean, they don't know that they'll get another season, but it's still a good idea to do a little more planning than they seem to do. Even something as simple as the basic rules of magic would be useful. Watch the interviews with the actors; even they don't understand or know what's going on a lot of the time. If they don't understand it, I doubt that the directors have a great grasp either. That should tell the writers something. But maybe that's how peeps do stuff in t.v.?
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I think it means that Henry believes unwaveringly in magic, both light and dark. Though he may not believe the people who have magic, he does believe in the magic they possess. The best example of this is the most current: Pan and Henry. Pan tried to tell Henry that he'd known about Henry before Henry was born and Henry didn't believe him, but that doesn't negate Henry's belief in what Pan can do (even though we don't fully know what Pan is capable of). He believes in magic without anyone's opinion and believes despite others' opinions.

In my opinion, by being the product of ultimate light and dark magic, Henry will be fully capable of choosing how to use his own magic (yes, I believe Henry has magic). I say "fully capable" because though characters like Regina or Rumplestiltskin had a choice in how they used their magic, they were heavily influenced by others around them. Henry, once again, isn't as influenced by those around him because he forms his own opinions/theories and, generally, sticks to them.

Saying this, Henry is currently being deceptively influenced by Peter. He seems to find Peter's lifestyle attractive mainly because Peter is his own person. He doesn't live under restriction and, though Henry loves his mothers, Neal, Greg & Tamara, and all of his grandparents (technically speaking, Belle is his step-grandmother...that's kinda cool!), he wishes to be his own "man". Because abandonment is one of the current major themes, my guess is that Pan was abandoned by someone and hurt so deeply that he wished to change his fate entirely. Henry can identify with this very easily, as he was abandoned by both his birth mother and his adoptive mother (neglect is a form of abandonment). The difference between Pan and Henry is that Henry chooses forgiveness instead of revenge (which is also unlike his adoptive mother and his paternal grandfather).
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Also, how is it that time doesn't pass while in NeverLand, but our "Heroes" have been gone "5 days" as expressed by Happy?
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Ahh, can we take into account that Henry's adoptive mother, Regina, wasn't really "neglectful", Henry chose to "disengage" from her shortly before finding Emma under the belief that she was the Evil Queen (which he had no real reason to know was true other then reading it in a story book) and Regina, not knowing Henry's "parentage", showed that she did "love" him in her own way and tried to keep him safe; I saw no signs of real "neglect" in his upbringing or he wouldn't be the kind of person he is (spoiled yes, neglect no). I mean really, he was raised by the "second" most powerful person in Storybrook, of course he is going to be "spoiled" (and I personally see "spoiling" a pre-teen as a form of neglect).
Which brings me to my first question, in the years where no one aged in Storybrook, how is it that Henry grew from a baby to a pre-teen? We saw ( in flash backs) that every day was restarted, in which case Henry would have stayed a baby. Or did the days restart just for those under the curse? In which case, Henry would have been learning the same stuff in school every day, or would have grown up believing everyone but Regina had "a terrible memory".

Also again, Henry is the product of Emma and Neal, Emma is the product of Snow and Charming (True Love="Light Magic"); but Neal is just the product of his mother (who had no magic) and Rumplestiltskin (who became "The Dark One" after Neal was born), so unless your saying Neal is the product of "The Dark One" because Rumple was fated to be "The Dark One", then Neal has no "magic" in his blood line. Or maybe your "hinting" that Henry "adsorbed" the "dark magic" from Regina by being around her while growing up (but wait, he grew up in a world "without magic").
Therefore my second question, how can Henry be the product of "Light Magic" and "Dark Magic", unless Neal somehow "obtained" some "Dark Magic" in NeverLand before meeting Emma.

On a side note, how did Pinocchio know who Baelfire was, Bael left the "Forest" years before Pinocchio would have been carved and brought to life (and I don't believe "The Dark One" is going to just go around giving out info on what happens in his personal life or what happens to his family). Was Pinocchio really checking on Emma, letting her become a thief and getting in trouble with the law; I thought he was much too busy using drugs in another country.
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Ahh, can we take into account that Henry's adoptive mother, Regina, wasn't really "neglectful", Henry chose to "disengage" from her shortly before finding Emma under the belief that she was the Evil Queen...

Agreed, but Regina's "love" for Henry, to me, wasn't what I expected a mother's love to look like. She manipulated him a few times, kept an over-bearing eye on him, yet still managed to act like she didn't really care about his personality, per se. If my memory's still good for the night, Emma was the one to point out to Regina that Henry was even reading the fairy tale book (yes, I realize kids hide stuff from their parents). My point here is that I'm sure Henry tried to show it to her a time or two and it was "Not now, Henry, I'm busy" . She grew out of that in Season 2 and is now the mother we all root for in Season 3. And, yes, spoiling is also a form of neglect :)

I think because Henry was born outside of Storybrooke is the reason as to why he ages and everyone else doesn't. He was born outside of the curse and, thus, isn't a part of the curse. As to him not noticing that everyone stays the same or does the same thing day after day, yeah, I think that's one of the continuity points that doesn't fit, but doesn't really matter (they're not going for logical here, unfortunately).

Good point. I'll clarify :) No, I don't think Neal has any magical abilities whatsoever. Henry has magic by birth from Emma, but the influences for using his magic as dark magic are strong within his paternal (Rumple) and adopted maternal lineage (Regina and Cora). So he is light magic by nature, but dark magic by nurture. It's up to him to decide which he will become.

Your side note is still in speculation, I believe. Here's a site with some good theories: http://www.wetpaint.com/once-upon-a-time/articles/once-upon-a-time-speculation-how-did-august-know-neal-was-baelfire

My guess is the Blue Fairy.
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"She manipulated him a few times, kept an over-bearing eye on him, yet still managed to act like she didn't really care about his personality, "

Sounds alot like my father, but I can assure you - he was not a evil king from some far off place, just a father who was being over protective while keeping his distance (like his mother was with him in the 1930's). With the parental control/abandonment of their children so high in this show, I'm not sure anyone can tell just what mother's or father's love really look like in OUAT. And yes, I can totaly see Regina telling him at times "not now", since she was "controlling" everyone in Storybrook (well, not Gold) for what, two decades? And its not like she was a stay-at-home mom, she was the Mayor; and she would have had to continue controlling them, because even with the curse, everyone's lives were still built upon their "basic personality"; it would have been easy for things to get out of her control if she didn't maintain it.

And it would also seem that Henry might not notice the aging difference between himself and others, well, because I don't remember any other children in Storybrook (although I am most likely wrong in this, I would have to re-watch Season 1). But yea, I agree that Henry would not be affected by the curse, having not ever been to the Forest or knowing about it before reading a book his teacher gave him.
Which brings up another question, how is it that a Fairy Tale book with pictures of real people (not only of people in the Forest, but his family as well) shows up on the shelf in his school so that his teacher can give it to him to read; smells of Rumple to me...
Has anyone thought that since Gold sent out of town to get Henry, then maybe Gold was in contact with August (hmm, that would seem to present the concept that Gold knew Bael was there (well, they WERE now in a "world without magic", where Bael said the portal from the bean would take them), and he might have expected Bael to follow Emma to Storybrook, hmm...I'll have to think on that one a bit more).

I would have to agree on the "nature" vs "nurture" you present, and he will have to "choose" at some point; but he is good at heart and I doubt with Emma around that even Pan would find it easy changing it.
Was thinking maybe (considering the "manipulating" Henry of Season 2) Henry might just be "manipulating" Pan...we have to remember that Henry was raised by Regina (a major manipulator) who was not only raised by Cora (a major major manipulator) but also taught by "The Dark One" (how many majors should we put on his manipulating..lol) to control through "manipulation"'; but then they threw in Wendy (why is it always a girl who turns the game plan on this show around). Only, I'm all for the females in this show; I like the "fact" that both Snow and Emma (mother and daughter on the show) in real life share the same name, even if spelled different.
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Re-reading this, and taking into account this week's ep (Henry turning sticks into swords), whatever Pan has planned we knew wasn't good, and now regards more than wanting him to do something magical for Pan; he wants to eliminate him as a threat. First emotional manipulation to change his forgiving nature by making him a lost boy, and only when that fails will Pan try to kill him or take his glowy heart for himself.
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Another thing to be explained is Henry having the 'heart of the truest believer.' What does that signify, being the progeny of the savior and the dark one's son? Another product of true love? Discuss.
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