An Once Upon a Time Community
Sunday 8:00 PM on ABC (Returning September 25, 2016)

Once Upon a Time S03E04: "Nasty Habits"


Life is so short and yet paradoxically, a week can feel so long. Sundays particularly, waiting for another work cycle to begin, holding onto those last hours before you’re plunged into the grind of the work week, trying to treasure those last fleeting moments of leisure.

How dare they do this to our Sunday evening.

We knew eventually that OUAT's opening run of action-packed episodes would trickle off and we’d get some filler. It’s Season 3, we know how a 22-episode season operates, there’s a couple skippers mixed in. But this nugget of bland potato in our zesty OUAT burrito had a rotten spot in it that makes me want to throw the whole tortilla-wrapped meal into the street and under a car. I’m talking of course about the disgusting scene where Emma Swan, our strong, independent heroine, BROKE DOWN IN TEARS over Neal. She ran off, her face crumpling like a deflating balloon, because she realized she NEVER STOPPED LOVING Neal/Baelfire?!



Bitch please. BITCH PLEASE!!! Bitch… please… don’t do this to me. Please don’t do this to the little girls. PLEASE DON’T DO THIS TO OUR LITTLE GIRLS! Deepbreathsdeepbreathsdeepbreaths. Let me get a hold of myself. Deep. Breaths. Okay.

Please raise your hand if you still love, or even LIKE, the guy you dated at 17. Maybe, if you’re around 28, you have nothing in common with that guy because you’ve grown into a completely different person with new priorities and interests and confidence. Make no mistake: Emma is 28, Henry is 11, and Bae knocked Emma up, dropped a dime on her, and never talked to her again when she was at the age where most people graduate high school. Then, when Neal found out the curse was broken after years of knowing he’d betrayed her in this unthinkable way, he still didn’t meet up to make amends. He got engaged to Tamara instead. But what, am I supposed to be impressed he made a nightlight?

For all the talk OUAT does about how it doesn’t do damsels in distress, how it doesn’t have weak heroines, Emma showed a real debilitating weakness in "Nasty Habits": a gaping hole in her self-esteem. That’s the kind of weakness that destroys most women, not a lack of sword-fighting prowess. Tying yourself emotionally to a guy who doesn’t respect you and who takes advantage of you, that’s the weakness most young girls are in danger of, not an inability to fight ogres. It’s disgusting and off-character to portray Emma as a woman who would secretly love the guy who betrayed her and abandoned her. Neal certainly has more self-respect, he clearly doesn’t trust his dad Rumple anymore. But Emma isn’t written with that mental fortitude. The writers took the Emma Swan that Jen Morrison spent Season 1 and Season 2 building, and changed her into someone pathetic and needy and weak, and that makes me furious.


Okay, now that I’m done ranting, other than that soul-crushing 30-second interlude with Emma, this episode was boring. We learned Pan is also the Pied Piper and we spent too damn long watching him breathily play a pan pipe while teen extras cavorted to music that obviously wasn’t playing on set during filming. Pan (in a flashy patchwork cloak?! Haha this show) lured Baelfire and every other preteen boy in town to the woods for a super corny dance session.


Excuse me, a MASKED super corny dance session. And Pan is still up to his vaguely teen-orgiastic tricks on Neverland, with his Lost Boys awkwardly high-stepping around a fire while shaking rain sticks to shrill piping. Like, kill me now.





The episode wasn’t helped by Rumple’s crazy, Commando-type camouflage streaks over one eye, or his increasing meanness to imaginary girlfriend Belle. Not only did he tell her he had nothing to live for (prompting her to giggle and be like, “Heehehehe except me, right?”) he asked her to straight-up go away. The thing about these two is that we are constantly told that Rumple loves Belle, and yet he is continually asking her to get lost, go home, stop looking at him, stop talking to him, hand him her phone so he can erase his number, call AOL and make his email stop etc. Belle stop being such a masochist, you’re almost as bad as Emma.



Rumple, coming across Neal in the woods, remembered that he'd been shot through the chest and dropped several million miles into another dimension—and so he reasonably assumed Neal was a vision and decided to start choking him out.


Because that’s what you do with an incorporeal phantasm, you cut off its windpipe? Whatever. Doesn't matter, because Neal whispered “Please, papa,” and that and the odor of stale Axe body spray convinced Rumple this was real-deal Neal.




Moments later, father and son were pulling a Kraken out of a lake, and then presumably they spent several hours milking it for ink. (You have to pressure the glands just right.)


We learned about this new magical item as we often do—within five minutes of that item becoming essential to the plot moving forward—but either way, the writers decided that squid ink makes magic people hold still for a while, EVEN PAN. So Rumple and Neal confronted Pan, got ink on him, and then ran off with Henry. Michael Raymond James impressively threw Henry over his shoulder; well done, hope MRJ wasn’t herniated as Neal and Henry are roughly the same size.


Things went quickly sour when Rumple spilled the beans about the prophecy/how he had briefly considered killing his own grandson. This related to the FTL flashback because there was this one time where Rumple came upon a corny bonfire party in the woods, and magicked Bae home without asking him first, and Bae totally would have gone home but didn’t think it was fair his dad would take him home without asking him first? Look, Bae, if you were going to go home with your dad anyway, there’s no argument, is there? Whatever. Neal immobilized Rumple again and then endangered every disc in his spine by dead-lifting Henry from the ground to his shoulder and marching off into the woods. He was grabbed up by the Lost Boys before he could run into Emma, though, so there’s still hope he might get swallowed by an angry mama Kraken.

The most interesting thing that happened during this episode was Hook confronting Charming about his wound, and his obligation to tell his family that he is, uh, dying? Charming: Regina is hella magic. It’s “never too late,” right? I’d be more concerned about Charming except we all know for a fact he won’t die.  His noble self-sacrifice does create a perfect foil for Rumple: While Rumple is torn over whether or not to kill Henry to sidestep a vague prophecy, Charming would rather legit waste away than pull focus from getting Regina and Emma their son back.




It’s crazy adorable that Hook is looking out for Charming, hopefully he tells Emma or Snow soon that Charming is doing the dad thing and refusing to let anyone check out his hidden ailment. A lot of dads do that, don’t they? They get so weird about going to see a doctor. DADS: Stop being like that. Go get your prostate looked at. We want you to be around for as long as possible.

I really loved that Tinker Bell was the only one with enough of a brain to suggest they not do a suicide mission into Pan’s compound, that instead they should actually consider how to escape with Henry. She also made the troubling admission that she spent the better part of a night cleaning the blood off a watch she stole off a dead body. HAHAHAHA Tinker Bell you are a creepy corpse scavenger?! Do you have a necklace made out of ears? I blame the Blue Fairy for this grim turn for Tink.



Also we learned that Bae apparently really loved Battlestar Galactica and totally stole the idea of using star maps. What a precocious scamp!

So to sum:

1.) In this show’s ham-fisted attempt to wrangle a love triangle, the strength many of us loved about Emma is being written out with lazy, broad strokes.

2.) Rumplestiltskin and Neal are still at odds, and Rumple still seems on-the-fence about whether or not to kill Henry. AREN’T WE ALL.

3.) Tinker Bell is a  grave robber.

What a bust. I’m starting to wonder if this show is aware of its own nasty habits. What did you think?


QUESTIONS:

... At your current age, could you be with the person you dated/liked at 17?

... After three seasons, with all the FTL flashbacks OUAT has done, how has the show not built a general fairy village backlot to integrate with the CGI? They can’t lay half a block of cobblestones?

... Did you lose respect for Emma, or are you giving her a pass because she feels like a “Lost Girl” on this island?

... What is Belle getting out of her relationship with Rumple?

... How will Prince Charming be cured?

... Will we ever see Aurora and Mulan in the same shot again?


Previously Aired Episode

AIRED ON 5/15/2016

Season 5 : Episode 23

307 Comments
Comments (307)
Submit
Sort: Latest | Popular
I know I'm behind the curve here reading your reviews, but I just have to say that even from the pilot forward, it was always my assumption that the entire reason Emma "finds" people is because she was searching for Neal. He's good at hiding, she's good at finding people, but she never found him.

I know how this all goes now, but even back to this episode, I didn't see her admitting that she still loved Neal was weak. I saw it as a release. Something she'd kept inside and finally let out and it was cathartic and needed. She loved the heck out of the guy and he left her to rot in prison. I never for a moment, even in season 2, expected Emma to reconcile to the point where she would end up with him again, but when you've been hurt like that its necessary to admit it and move on.
Reply
Flag
I'm just going to awkwardly comment that I'm still with the guy I was dating when I was 17 and it's been about 4 years... So I'm just going to say yes I can see myself doing that.
As far as Emma, the pressure of being the savior has apparently taken a toll on her, she should have a pass on this mental breakdown.
Belle and Rumple- I swear Belle just thinks she's doing the right thing by taking Rumple on as a personal project to transform him into a decent person.
Reply
Flag
So, um, *ahem*, who's ready for the kiss next week?
Reply
Flag
Consistency point: If Neal taught Rumple how to snag a squid for its ink, how did Rumple get squid ink to use back in his cell when he wrote Emma's name over and over?

I'll second your motion for OUAT to build a cobblestoned floor. And a yellow brick/circle path for Wonderland while they're at it.

Is anyone else worried Charming won't make it, since they originally had him die in the pilot? It might make Snow's story more interesting if she has to find a new happy ending (like Regina needs to).
2
Reply
Flag
The show has been confusing sometimes but one thing still bugs me, when the curse broke, people got their fairyland memories back right? Was it suppose to overwrite their Storybrook memories or blend with it? What it looks like now is that Storybrook and Fairyland memories got mixed up, they refer to each other with Storybrook names instead of their real names. When the curse first broke, Charming called out to Snow and called her by her name, then after that it was Mary Margeret again.

What was the point of breaking the curse? At this point there's no difference because the characters personality pretty much stayed the same.
4
Reply
Flag
I keep waiting for Snow to claim her name -- and her hair, too! If Regina kept her hair short for the curse, isn't it time for Snow to want to look more like her fairy tale self and GROW OUT HER HAIR?
5
Reply
Flag
No one can be strong and ass-kicking all the time. We all have weak moments where we cry or doubt ourselves or have low self-esteem. I'm tired of so many people, especially women, getting upset when they see a female character not being strong. I'd much rather watch a character who is REAL and complex and layered, than a character who is strong and nothing else.

Emma has spent her whole life in self-chosen exile from human contact. She has serious abandonment issues--like anyone would if they grew up the way she did--and the one person she ever allowed herself to love, Neal, abandoned her too. For someone who has never experienced any kind of love in her life except for Neal, it's natural for her to still hold on to that emotion and the pain she experienced. No matter how people treat us, when we love someone it's hard to stop loving them. She put up a good fight to shut Neal out emotionally for the next 10 years and even when he came back, but in this episode she lost the strength to keep lying to herself that she was over it. I don't think that makes her weak or the writers disgusting for portraying her in this light. It just makes her human.
More+
18
Reply
Flag
Thank you very much, my thoughts exactly.
1
Reply
Flag
Ok, I am getting kind of sick of a bunch of adults (including the all powerful Dark One) being intimidated by a prepubescent male dance troupe.
16
Reply
Flag
Charming is annoying. Emma, get a grip, Snow.... what can I say about Snow!! They are just anoying now.
12
Reply
Flag
I know! What happened to shooting arrows and robbing carriages Snow. She used to be amazing. Shoot an ogre in the eye with an arrow and beat up Mulan amazing. Now she just seems to stand there and throw out 5 word pep-talks. I want the real Snow back :(
2
Reply
Flag
What I feel is that the writers don't know what they want to do with the characters, they change personality on a whim, especially Regina and Gold. Regina is at the moment my favorite so far but I really wish they stick with one alightment, she doesn't need to become goody two shoes, redeeming Regina is great, just don't change her to evil again when she disagrees with people.
7
Reply
Flag
I just want to say: "I want Regina back!!"
7
Reply
Flag
My main takeaway from this episode was some laziness by the writers. After they established that only boys who feel unloved can hear Pan's pipe, they didn't earn the ending of the episode. Why, in the space of one (to him) uneventful nap, does Henry suddenly hear the pipe?
14
Reply
Flag
HAHAHAH just now connecting the dots that Emma was supposed to be around 17/18 when her and Neal were having their little love affair back in the day. I know, I should have considered this, but it just never crossed my mind before. She is just NOT one of those 34 year old actresses who can convincingly play a teenager.

Emma, Snow, and Charming are essentially the most inane one dimensional characters. There is nothing worse than the "unfalteringly good of heart leaders" whose only faults are the fact that they don't "believe in themselves" enough, and we have THREE OF THEM.
9
Reply
Flag
Can they please kill Snow, Charming, and Emma? I just want Regina, Hook, and Rumple...
7
Reply
Flag
Hook is pretty great, charming seems to loose IQ with every episode, Snow just needs some sense of reality instead of spitting those overly positive lines.

But hey, Henry finally knows not to talk that much, that's at least a good thing the new seaon has.
5
Reply
Flag
This comment has been removed.
Reply
Flag
^ Yes! Do this, ABC. I will watch the hell out of the Rumple, Hook and Regina hour!
4
Reply
Flag
Loved the review - I look forward to this one every week - so funny. Now to answer some questions:
1. no way would I ever want to be with anyone I dated as a teen - diff. priorities for diff. times.
2. CGI - definitely cheesy - seems to be getting worse and I would think with time and experience it would be getting better.
3. Emma drives me nuts. How could she even think of Neal *cringe* or anyone else with the hottest pirate on Earth around her all of the time. Wow, Hook makes my knees weak.
4. I have never liked the Belle/Rumple story - gross from day one. I wish Rumple would die so Belle can meet the real Beast.
5. Charming will be saved with love, ha ha. I have no idea but, probably Tink will redeem herself somehow and get her powers back just in time to save the day.
6. Personally I don't care about Mulan or Aurora - I find them to be mega boring.
Also, I wish someone (ahem, Rumple) would consider that the "Henry ending Rumple" prophecy might mean the end of Rumple's dark power and not his life. It seems logical especially since many of Rumple's own "deals" have double meanings.
AA

More+
4
Reply
Flag
If we want to do this logically, the prophecy says that the boy will lead him to his son. There is no guarantee that this is Henry. I think it's probably Pan. Because technically Emma led Gold to Neil the first time. Henry had nothing to do with it. And the number of times Neil has ended up with Pan (What is it, three now? Or does knocking him out count as four?) it seems likely that Neil is going to be with Pan for a bit, and when Rumple finally catches up with him, maybe he'll be in a better position to listen. Because at the moment, with Neil denying Rumple any kind of connection, Rumple hardly has his son back. He has an angry guy who used to be some kid he dropped through a portal. I hope the prophecy is meant to be a metaphorical lead with Neil finally forgiving Rumple, and them being reunited by Pan. With what they said at the beginning about Pan killing Rumple and how heavily they're focusing on it being Henry, seems pretty likely its gonna be Pan in the end. It's kinda lame to have them pointing the finger at Henry and then it actually be him, especially after they kept emphasising how wonky prophesy can get.
More +
3
Reply
Flag
It stil seems crazy to me that everything up to this point is the cause of some weird caged blind lady giving Rumple his self fulfilling prophecy.
2
Reply
Flag
Exactly. And I'm pretty sure there was a warning somewhere that not all prophecys are what they seem
1
Reply
Flag
I think Rumple knows that. And this just adds to motivation for killing Henry. Without his powers, Rumple is not safe and has things to fear, hence it will come to everyone's notice that he no longer is somebody to be feared but that he is a coward.
1
Reply
Flag
Hmm, good point. I just wish someone would say (suggest) something. They just come off as idiots to me.
1
Reply
Flag
Poll

Reply
Flag
The question is not "Can they be redeemed?" (we all know the writers do some crazy things!); but "Will they?"
3
Reply
Flag
Staff
ooooh can we vote twice?
4
Reply
Flag
Did anyone notice when Peter Pan and Henry were talking and Henry said he thinks he dream his father which of course is a lie, Peter Pan did not say it might have been a dream but rather he said "How can you be sure?" Am i imagining or Peter Pan doesn't lie. You know i notice those small details but i just might be wrong and i am aware of that :D
5
Reply
Flag
Interesting if true- maybe that's where Rumple learned it!
1
Reply
Flag
I think rumple is so not scasry this whole season...even when they show him with his make up on....not scary anymore..i think he is gone mad...!! Pan is much scarier then him...!!!
henry has become a lost boy....curious how that is going to end...
Lot of things were weird this episode...like Neal calling for that animal...but not doing anything with it...
Going through all that trouble to get caught again...
there was simply no excitement in this episode...
1
Reply
Flag
Oh, and a new take on the person you loved at 17? Jax and Tara from SOA. That is a huge mess.

Reply
Flag
I also felt that Emma's "Neal" breakdown felt very awkward. My sense was that they had really, really liked each other way back when. But any romance and deep love had literally been left out of the OUaT script.
2
Reply
Flag
My review on Nasty Habits! Please let me what you think!

lostboy3.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/the-season-of-peter-pan-nasty-habits.html
Reply
Flag
Has anyone considered Emma's statement that she was ANGRY about not having closure to her relationship with Neal? I kinda wondered whether part of the whole thing was the fact that with Neal dead (as far as she knows) she'd never be able to dish out the a88-kicking he so richly deserved (and don't try to tell me that Emma didn't plan to do that, at least 3 times a day, all through her incarceration).
Pan appears to be dragging everyone's dirty laundry out into the light. (See cornhusk doll, reappearing like clockwork...) Emma's sleep-deprived, shook up by the whole map business, and maybe feeling the strain of having to be the leader. So a mental step back ("Why do I still care about this guy, anyway? He's dead, dammit!") might be easier to deal with than the immediate realities- missing kid, unnaturally cheerful parents her own age, Regina's impulsiveness and Hook. Plus Neverland...
I liked that Emma backed up Tink on the exit strategy point, which her heroic parents never seem to consider. If she's reverting back to her "street smart" mentality, maybe they've got a shot at this after all.
In the interest of transparency, I confess that I've spent more than 2/3 of my life with a guy I met when I was 16- we've lived together 26 years, are now married and have an 11-year old son (whose dad let him watch "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" at 5, but that's another story...)
One of my favorite quotes on long-term relationships comes from Ruth Graham, wife of televangelist Billy Graham. Asked if she'd ever consider divorce, she replied "Never! But murder- frequently"
More+
8
Reply
Flag
- In Rumple's defense, Belle was a hallucination. Not real. So it wasn't like he was hurting her feelings by telling her to go away. :)

- Speaking of hallucinations, though, I loved your analysis of Rumple's logic with Neal. Squishy hallucination, indeed. :D And why does he keep thinking that, just because they're hallucinations, this automatically makes them enemies? Belle was a hallucination, and she wasn't an enemy.

- We learned about Squid Ink in S2. Although I did find it odd that its properties just drastically changed (it was used in S2 to write living spells. Also, to make prison bars go away). But they did tell us in S2 that Squid Ink was a potent substance with multiple uses... I guess it just does whatever the user wills it to do.

- In fairness to the writers, you did miss an entire plot point in the show summary. Peter Pan, apparently, is not eternal. He's not a demon (which is what I was assuming up until this episode). Apparently, he was a regular boy, who just happened to grow up (mostly) with Rumplestiltskin. And then something happened.

So we get the impression that Pan is looking for a successor. Wonder why? Is he out of imagination? Is he just so bored with life that he's willing to hand the baton to somebody else?

- Re: the whole "I still loved him" scene. I can kind of see both sides... in and of itself, it doesn't strain plausibility or character for Emma to still be in love (or at least, have unresolved issues) with the guy who gave her a child at 17, and vanished. The problem isn't Emma... it's Neal. He's so... BORING!!! With the monotone, and the constant hangdog expression, and the monotone... If Emma had met Hook (or, heck, the Huntsman) at 17, had his child, and then the guy vanished so Emma could fulfill her destiny, I don't think we'd have as much of a problem with that, as we do with Neal, because at least we'd be able to see why they were so much in love. Because there would be actual onscreen chemistry.
More+
10
Reply
Flag
It would be nice to think that Pan planned to retire. But I don't get that vibe. I think Henry is supposed to save magic for Pan, so he can be more powerful and encourage more anarchic behavior. Heck, maybe even generate enough magic for Pan to escape from Neverland. I don't think it's an accident that Pan's been there so long- long enough to get lonely, says he in the flashback to Hamelin where he meets Bae..
2
Reply
Flag
As usual, Lily's review was hilarious and made with talent. And also blew some things out of proportion.

First, I agree the Lost Boys' celebration was "kinda" lame, I mean, just dancing and prancing around a fire. And the Enya references cracked me up,

But when it came to Emma's "crying," I saw things differently. I have to admit as soon as the review comes out, I like to see the pictures and, with better shows like The Walking Dead and Homeland demanding my attention, i just get to watch OUAT later in the week, so often I see Lily's captions even before I watch the episode.

Well, when I read about Emma's crying, I imagined a five-minute scene of incessant crying and sobbing, not a few seconds of suggested crying without any actual tears. That was quite underwhelming and not demeaning at all. She's just showed her human side, was under great stress and had a moment of weakness. All perfectly understandable.

But I don't get the "Please don’t do this to the little girls" part. Does it mean Emma just because she's a lead has to be some sort of role model? If all leads necessarily has to be role models, the result will much probably be bland and uninteresting fiction. Besides, what kind of disturbed child watches Once Upon A Time (a show that is not made for children, by the way), with all its inconsistencies and crazy writing, in search of a model? If that were the case, I would be more concerned with the mental and emotional stability of little boys who would mirror themselves in season one's David Nolan. What a messed up fellow that was!

As for still loving someone one knew at the age of 17, then failing to look them up on the Internet, all I can say is that I don't (usually) Facebook stalk my high school passions. I move on. But if the girl who rocked my world at the age of 17 appeared at my doorstep now and said she was still mad about me, I might change my mind and consider her a suitable partner again. It's not unusual to see people randomly meeting old flames and having old feelings come back to life even after those people swore that would never happen again.

Yeah, I know, there's the whole abandoned pregnant in jail thing. That's where I would draw the line, I admit it. But as they say, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, and Emma is the daughter of a fairy tale character, and in many ways a fairy tale character herself, and in fairy tale logic, things like love at first sight, soul mates, happily ever after (after marriage of course), a true-love kiss, etc are not only possible things, but they are also certain to happen. So I understand all the fuss.

More+
3
Reply
Flag
Staff
I don't think Emma has the obligation to be the world's most perfect role model. However OUAT has made a big deal about how Emma and Snow & etc. break the Disney princess mold by being proactive and badass, Emma is not a damsel in distress, she's strong and independent. I ASSUME this is at least partly to benefit the little girls in their large family demographic. I can't believe they would go out of their way to make these female characters so good at shooting arrows and kickin' A but then give them the big stereotypical weakness of losing their heads over a guy. Neal cut Rumple off after he betrayed him/sassed him one too many times, I would say Emma is being a lot more forgiving towards Neal, who she knew for approx. 2 weeks 11 years ago and who buried a knife in her back pretty deep. Also I think the character development between emma and neal has been atrocious. It took 22 episodes of her hanging out with Henry, her own son, before she told him she loved him. She got the barest explanation from Neal about why he ditched her (Pinocchio. What?!) and had one bagel with Neal and suddenly she's always loved him? If they had made more of an effort with Neal, if they had shown them sharing memories or spending time together, they could pull the "wait I loved him" card but they didn't put that development onscreen at all.
More +
5
Reply
Flag
I don't think we should be mad at Emma for having one breakdown. I mean she did lose someone she loved and not break up shit like Neal DIED and she's been holding up pretty well. She's tough as nails but I think one of the most important aspects of feminism is showing women realistically as well as strong. Emma is the perfect strong willed woman that should be represented on TV but girls shouldn't have the idea in their mind that it's never okay to cry sometimes. Sometimes things get overwhelming and you just need a moment. And she had a breakdown in front of her parents. I think you're being a little harsh on Emma for having one breakdown with her technical mom and dad after everything she's been through. A strong woman isn't just powerful because she hides her emotions but because she knows how and when to hide them. She didn't break down in front of Hook and Regina. She's smart and she needed a moment. I don't think it was bad at all. Emma is still a perfect representation of feminism. Now more than ever.


1
Reply
Flag
when I was 17 I think I wanted everyone to die. so, I guess, no?

I'm not sure where they're going with the whole charming/poison thing, maybe with snow's little black spot on her heart, charming will tip her over to the dark side and become the villain in season 4?

also, randomly summoning kraken for a little bit of ink is exactly the crazy I love in this show!
Reply
Flag
I was reading another post below; maybe Rumple's "undoing" actually means that his evil will be "undone". Maybe Henry (good, honest, true believer) actually redeems Rumple in some way.
I agree with other posters; the same dialogue between Hook and Prince C., "Why don't you tell them, Mate." "No, then they'll.....find out!" blah blah blah. When are Hook and Emma going to get to first base? I can only see Neil as the creepy guy in the first season of True Blood.
Reply
Flag
Uh..I MARRIED the guy I started dating at 17 and am very happy. In a world where there are casual hook ups and failed relationship after failed relationship I guess its easy to make fun of and scoff at the idea that you could still be in love with someone from your past, even if they did hurt you emotionally. She said that the feelings came flooding back when she saw him again. When he left I think she really turned off her emotions and that is part of the reason she gave Henry up for adoption. I also think that the ability to love and to admit that you love someone is a strength not a weakness. I really am kinda disgusted at your comments about how Emma was weak and how messed up it is that she still loves Neil. Feeling love does not make one weak-in fact it makes you stronger. I mean, sacrificing your own life-hell even putting it at risk is not an easy thing to do and in fact goes against the most basic of human instincts, but because we also have the instinct to protect those that we care about we are able to do heroic things like take a bullet (or poison arrow) for another person. Now what would make Emma weak was if Neil treated her like crap in the present and she didn't have enough self respect to walk away from it. So far Neil has been doing a lot to make up for leaving her-I mean, dude got shot. Honestly, cynicism + this show = constant disappointment.
More+
1
Reply
Flag
Staff
Congratulations on a long lasting marriage! That's awesome.
Re this show: Emma wasn't hurt emotionally- she was hurt materially and physically in a very profound way by being thrown in jail to have a baby and give up that baby at age 17. Like, that's some pretty powerful stuff, and I don't think the show has earned Emma forgiving Neal for that realistically. They've spent barely any time together and even the few scenes they had together season 2 Neal a) was engaged to someone else b) had the world's worst excuse for not looking Emma up after he called the cops on her for helping him steal watches. So no, it's not weak to admit you still have feelings for someone, but I'd say it's incredibly weak to continue to love someone who shows you absolutely no respect.
7
Reply
Flag
I can't believe people are actually upset that Emma has feelings... No, she is not always a badass, she is a messed up person and that much was obvious from the very first episode in season 1... It bugs me that people these days think emotions and love = weakness.
3
Reply
Flag
Staff
I don't think anyone's mad at Emma for having feelings or admitting them. I loved when she broke down and kissed Henry season 1. That felt earned and organic and was a very strong moment for the character and the season. Her loving Neal is problematic, because he intentionally harmed and betrayed her. It's nothing short of self-loathing to love someone who called the cops on you while you were trying to help t hem mule their stolen watches, and then never looked you up afterwards to explain themselves because they thought you would be pissed. That's cowardice. If they really wanted us to root for Neal and Emma, they should have given them more time together season 2 and reasons for us to like him other than that he can drill a coconut on an island with no access to tools.
5
Reply
Flag
Oh my gosh your review made me "LOL"! I agree, very boring show. What is it with the writers hyperfocusing on the "daddy issues". It was an overwhelming theme in "LOST" (Jack, Claire, Penny, Kate, Sawyer, ETC.) No one had a father or a good relationship with their fathers. It's ad nauseum on OUAT.
2
Reply
Flag
Most fairy tale characters have crappy relationships with their parents, or have evil stepmothers, or were raised by single mothers, or were orphans or foundlings. Maybe that's why Eddy and Adam were drawn to the concept?
2
Reply
Flag
Stupid filler. I didn't hate this one as much as you seemed to. I personally didn't take Emma as being pathetic, needy, and/or weak. I think it's an issue of Emma never had closure on the relationship which makes it a lot harder to move on from it. Plus, Neverland has a way of bringing these issues our characters have to the forefront and Emma has been bottling hers up for her entire life. She has a ton to work through and that doesn't make her weak.

As for the rest of the episode, Rumple is becoming more batshit insane than my BFF Winston and his isn't in the good way. Pan is a cocky little shit but I keep finding myself more intrigued about what exactly his game plan is here.
4
Reply
Flag
I think emma's situation is different ,its not that she still loves someone she used to know when she is 17.its that neal is the first person she ever truly loved/trusted and she felt lonely her whole life so their relationship is special.And even after he betrayed her she didnt get close to anyone or try to love again.So it doesnt make her weak to admit she still loves neal because in her whole life neal is the one person she ever trusted or let in.And it would make sense that she still loves him because she is the kind of person who doesnt deal with her emotions and pretends they dont exist so maybe she never truly tried to get over him.
2
Reply
Flag
Tink was also on Masters of Sex Sunday and yes you could see her tinkerbells.
1
Reply
Flag
Roflol this is great. I love the images with Pan and Enya. I have two questions of my own and then I'll answer the above...

If Rumple put all of the lost boys to sleep, why was Henry still asleep when the other lost boys woke up already?

And also, how did Emma immediately know the cave was Neal's (she just automatically knew), when afterward she said she didn't know Neal liked to draw. I would have assumed she knew it was Neal's by the pictures, but she didn't even know that.

I never dated anyone at 17, but the very first person I dated, I wouldn't give him a second thought. On the other hand, I can relate to Emma, as I have been in love with the same guy for 4 years now, and he has betrayed me over and over. It's not a sign of weakness, just something incredibly difficult to deal with. Emma is a strong character but all strong characters have their challenges. This is hers.

I don't know why Belle is still with Rumple other than she loves him. It seems very unhealthy for her.

I hope we see Aurora and Mulan again soon!
More+
5
Reply
Flag
Also, why is Henry just sitting around bored?? Doesn't he even want to at least try to escape from Pan? Or you know, walk away and try to find his family, since it doesn't seem like he's being threatened into staying with Peter Pan...
2
Reply
Flag
I don't think the writers MADE Emma "pathetic and needy and weak" as you wrote... I think she already WAS "pathetic and needy and weak"!
I'm not going to talk about her so-called "super-power" (telling people's lies) when she actually trusts the WRONG people EVERY F***ing TIME! Or even her numerous breakdowns during the two previous seasons "Oh no! IO can't be a mom!" -"Oh! Yes! I'm the best mom ever!" "OMG! I hate my parents for abandoning me!" "Daddy! Mommy! I love you!" etc. etc.... She might be bipolar... But I actually BELIEVED her when she said she never stopped loving Neal.
Although, as always, I'm NOT convinced by Morrisson's acting (but that's another matter...), I actually think it IS possible to love the same person you loved at 17 when you're 28 (I AM 28 and I started dating my husband when we were 17, so...).
4
Reply
Flag
Dear CGI Tech. Please improve. That was terrible.
7
Reply
Flag
What is Belle getting out of her relationship with Rumple?

Screentime
21
Reply
Flag
I think you're being a little harsh on Emma, but not because she's a Lost Girl. She just watched the father of her child die in front of her. Their relationship was intense and complicated, and even though it was 10 years ago it's still pretty upsetting. Grieving a loss isn't being weak...
6
Reply
Flag
Neal was awsome in this episode, he was smart (which is a huge deal for this show), he worked with others as a team and has complex feelings.
I must say I'm shipping Hook/prince charming now... they have real chemistry
i'm more intrigued by pan than I was in the past episodes and I like the idea that Emma could be the savior due to her giving birth to Henry. It makes sense....
3
Reply
Flag
Bromance!
1
Reply
Flag
I actually think that the writers being aware of how unpopular Neal is, is the reason for this episode. Let's rewind a little bit - 1) Rumple spent an insanely long time looking for a way out of FTL into another realm to find his son. He made deals, manipulated and ruined countless lives to find a way. Crossing realms is extremely difficult. Even if you're THE DARK ONE; 2) Mission to find Henry - the "greatest heroes" of the series aka the 3 Charmings + Regina and Rumple have spent 4 episodes trying to find/save Henry. Pan is so SO powerful that he has foreseen and thwarted every attempt. Enter Neal - in 5 minutes he has managed to portal jump, neuter Pan and save Henry. Oh and apparently way back when he was still Bae, he was apparently an artfully gifted child genius with incredible physical strength - it takes Hook and Chraming to get open the pulley door to his hideyhole, where they discover walls covered with art and an actual star map (lmao!) with a secret cipher only a 12? 13? year old kid can crack. Oh and let's not forget that he is an incredibly loving "dad" to the kid he has known for 5 minutes and all about finding Emma who's life he royally fcuked up and didn't bother to look up for the past 11 years. Yeah...
I think that what the writers are trying to do, is give us reasons to start liking him, otherwise I see no point to this owerwhelmingly ridiculous hero crap they pulled with him in Nasty Habits. What they don't realize is that they are doing the show a real disservice with this. It weakens the existing storylines and takes away from every other character trying to find Henry. Plus, no matter how many shiny hero cloaks you try and throw over his shoulders, you can't make this frog into a prince. He will always be a frog (and I'm being kind here). People don't like him and the more you push, the less they will and that will just push viewers away. And that is a shame.

About the Emma crying over Neal thing because (gag!) she has never stopped loving the guy who betrayed her trust and abandoned her, that scene just made me laugh. I laughed because I am tired of being sad and disappointed. I mean no slight to JMo's acting chops, just the scene itself was ridiculous. I am actually willing to give the creators the benefit of the doubt here, I really am - if Neverland really brings forth the emotions one had as a child (first Emma feeling like an orphan and then reliving the feelings she HAD for Neal) and even intensifies them, then please, show us that and don't make us speculate, in this context, it's NOT fun. I realize that you don't wanna spoil the show but until you get to the point, this sh*t is actually painful to watch, especially in light of Emma's "I love you" to Neal in Storybrooke before he fell into the portal to FTL and the over the top promotion of this twilightesque "love" triangle with Emma, Hook and Neal. Because I gotta tell you, all the effort trying to show Neal as a superhero and Emma professing her everlasting love, doesn't exactly encourage our faith in the writing. Fans have lost so much faith in this show already and if the episodes leading up to until you actually reveal the point of all this misery (if there is one, do we still have enough faith to cross our fingers?) are not enjoyable to watch... Well, draw your own conclusions. Taking a look at the ratings may help.

And I am sorry for RumBelle lovers, because this crap is horrible. In an effort to still have Emilie on the show, Belle has been turned into a hallucination whose sole purpose is to show how messed up Rumple still is. Belle as a character has no storyline of her own. Isn't Emilie main cast? Ah, I forgot for a second - this is the Neal show now. Because reducing the screen time of a well liked/loved character for a character who is mostly disliked at best and repulsive at worst, is always a good idea.

Hook - ...is this still Hook? The guy whose sole purpose was to kill Rumplestiltskin? I don't think that's him. This is alien bodysnatching because this guy is all about helping and showing concern over Charming and the feelings of his family. Where did this come from? I saw no devlopment in this direction... aahh. I forgot. His one flashback episode on his ship with Bealfire which made him realize that he can be better. Another of Neal's/Baelfire's superpowers - the thought of having lost him is enough for Hook to bury a 300-year old vendetta and dedicate his so far wasted life to saving HIS son. What an inspiration Neal is.

Things I liked about the episode - when not part of a horrible rewrite of Regina's history, Tinkerbell is a laugh :) I really like the actress :) And Regina's smirk over Greg's demise and her snarking are always a pleasure, even though Regina was reduced to comedic relief in this episode. And although we know that Charming won't die, I like him so far this season (minus the Excalibur flashback). He thinks that there is no hope for him and is all about getting to Henry before he isn't able to help anymore. And how cute was Jared Gilmore dancing around the fire and waving sticks around? :) I like Henry having his own story this season - all we have seen so far is him flopping back and forth between parents and his anger at Regina. How about his feelings over Emma giving him up or over Neal's betrayal and abandonment of his birthmother which gave her no choice but to give Henry up? Does he even know any of this or is SuperNeal so awesome that he doesn't care? I hope that we see this and that him punishing Regina days are over because he realizes that aside from keeping the curse a secret and all that came with it, Regina is the one constant in his life who has always been there for him. And he should have no doubt in his mind anymore that she loves him and he is the most important person in her life.

Sorry for the long post!
More+
14
Reply
Flag
In Rumple's defense, getting out of FTL wasn't difficult... it was getting into the REAL world that was hard. The REAL world, lacking magic, was a PitA to get to without a magic bean and he believed they were all gone.

It seems that Pan can come-and-go into the real world via his Shadow, but since he and Rumple were enemies he wasn't going to help him. Pan might seem useless in FTL but in Neverland he might be all-powerful and thus could c*ck-block Rumple from getting-there-from-here. After all, apparently nobody leaves Neverland without Pan's permission... even Neal (he let him go).
2
Reply
Flag
I was going to post a huge reply to this thread about my dislikes and such about this episode, but then I saw your post and now I don't feel the need to. I agree with everything you have written! Especially the end with Regina and Henrys relationship.

Well done.
5
Reply
Flag
... At your current age, could you be with the person you dated/liked at 17?
- I don't know. But I don't think that should be the question. I think the question should be: At your current age, could you be with someone like NEAL who you dated/liked at 17. Cause lemme tell you... HELLZ to the no.

... After three seasons, with all the FTL flashbacks OUAT has done, how has the show not built a general fairy village backlot to integrate with the CGI? They can’t lay half a block of cobblestones?
- Hahahaha. Those damn pesky budgets ;).

... Did you lose respect for Emma, or are you giving her a pass because she feels like a “Lost Girl” on this island?
- Maybe I'm giving her a pass. I don't know, I feel like the whole Emma/Neal relationship is bogus. I get that she may have loved him then and because of that part of her still loves him now. But come on, she's proven to be a realist and seeing how he made a magic nightlight or whatever should not prompt such a reaction. Honestly, when I was watching it I thought she was going to say she wasn't upset because of Neal, but because of Henry! Ya know, the supposed product of their love! Gah! This show.

... What is Belle getting out of her relationship with Rumple?
- Ehm... nothing!

... How will Prince Charming be cured?
- If it's true love's kiss, I may stab myself in the eye with a fork.

... Will we ever see Aurora and Mulan in the same shot again?
- I have little to no confidence that this will ever happen. PROVE ME WRONG SHOW.


More+
4
Reply
Flag
Hahaha oh Lily. You are MY knight in shining armor. Every week I watch and think "WHAT THE HELL EVEN IS THIS SHOW!?" and then I wander over here and you're all like "WHAT THE HELL EVEN IS THIS SHOW!?". And my faith in humanity is restored cause seriously "WHAT THE HELL EVEN IS THIS SHOW!?"
I know people may ask me, WHY do you even still watch? Well, because I have hope. Because there are some extremely good actors. But mostly because of Regina Mills and these reviews. Don't let the commenters below tell you anything Lily, this review was sheer perfection. A highlight in the darkness of this show and apparently Emma's self esteem.
8
Reply
Flag
  • At your current age, could you be with the person you dated/liked at 17?
Sure, if he was the right one.
  • After three seasons, with all the FTL flashbacks OUAT has done, how has the show not built a general fairy village backlot to integrate with the CGI? They can’t lay half a block of cobblestones?
I know right. The bad CGI is kind of distracting. But I guess their budget gets blown on Lana's costumes.
  • Did you lose respect for Emma, or are you giving her a pass because she feels like a “Lost Girl” on this island?
I didn't lose respect for her. What bothered me was that the whole scene just felt super forced and out of place. Her breakdown over Neal felt more random than anything. Also, I just don't like Neal. He's a slacker and whiskery. Maybe when he and Emma were young, the hobo thieving thing was cute, but as an adult, it's just a turn off. Does Neal even have a job? Neal is a loser to me, so Emma's breakdown over him, while it made sense, was not emotionally satisfying one bit. Also, the two actors have ZER0 chemistry on screen together. So the whole rekindled romance star-crossed lovers bit just feels like bullshit. They do not love each other. They love the bond they had a long time ago. Emma and August had chemistry but the writers screwed that one up. Emma and Hook have tons of chemistry. Personally, I'm rooting for them. The only reason we feel anything during the scenes between Neal and Rumple is because of the wonderful work of Baelfire's child actor. I <3 Baelfire so much. His use of "papa" is so adorable. Although, this episode's flashback, while entertaining, was a bit convoluted when it came to Bae's rationale.
  • What is Belle getting out of her relationship with Rumple?
Excitement. Adventure. Contrast. Someone to be kind to and give wisdom to. Without him, her character is a boring goody two shoes.
  • How will Prince Charming be cured?
True love's kiss? A deal with Pan.
  • Will we ever see Aurora and Mulan in the same shot again?
Hopefully not.

Last point: Peter Pan is awesome and Henry is more likable this season.
More+
3
Reply
Flag
Wow Lily, you must really not pay attention to the show and people around you. It's called a hang-up, much like how grown men and women still resent their parents for things they did when they were 10, EVEN those that were unintentional, or couldn't be helped. You're right, she was 17, and in that respect, she never stopped being 17 - which is exactly WHY she grew to have trust issues. When she said she never stopped loving him, she didn't mean she wanted to marry him. She meant she never actually moved on, because she couldn't - she never got closure, never got a chance to DEAL with those emotions. And those emotions still has a hold on her.

Pathetic and needy and weak to lament the death of someone who betrayed you and changed the course of your life significantly, and never being able to get that closure because of said death? Try human.

To me, it's about damn time that she admitted that Neal leaving her wasn't just something she could shrug off. You keep that bottled in for so long, and Emma was the type to hold it in, it's bound to force its way out. I know this from first-hand experience.

Finally - please everyone, stop saying that her breakdown makes her less of a strong female lead. Yeah, remember when men were told not to cry just because "boys don't cry". That's as much bullshit for men as it is for women.

(P.S. I stopped reading after the Emma part, I couldn't take it. And I don't even like Neal.)
More+
17
Reply
Flag
Staff
I salute your creative use of bolding but my problems are not with Emma showing emotion (exhibit a: my review of Lost Girl where she cried about always feeling like an orphan, I loved that moment, it felt sweet and real)
however her sudden angst over Neal felt un-earned. She didn't spend that long with Neal before he knocked her up, arranged for her to get arrested, and never talked to her again. And in the time they spent together before he slipped into another dimension (approx. 2 minutes onscreen), they mostly talked about his fiancée. If they want to make emma and neal a viable relationship they need to show the work, the way they have with Emma and Snow or Emma and Henry. Merely having Emma still be obsessed with a guy who completely betrayed her makes her look like she has self-esteem issues and a complete lack of self respect. He never looked her up to apologize for calling the cops on her because he was afraid she'd be mad?!?! Yeah, that's a dealbreaker, the show should respect her more than that, she should respect herself more than for that to be an acceptable excuse.
9
Reply
Flag
I get where you are coming from Lily, I really do. I'm having the same issue with Breaking Bad (i've only gotten thru most of season 4 so far). The character just seems 'wrong', and it really irritates you, as Walt and Jessie are annoying the crap out of me (mostly Walt now tho). In the end, I realized I was projecting my own beliefs into the characters, which was doing a disservice to the writers. Granted, OUaT isn't nearly as well thought out, but there just comes a time where you have to let the writers tell the story they want to tell. I look at it as some other posters said, about being part fairy tale character, and thus find it harder than normal people to make rational decisions. Even further tho, a poster who mentioned human nature and abandonment explained it pretty well, much like you having hit it on the head with your remark at the end about chalking it up to feeling 'Lost'.

PS: why do you look so sad in your pic? Did you just change it to mock Emma? If so...... hilarious. If not, hopefully things get better :)

PSS: still a great review! keep it up please!
More +
Reply
Flag
er.. in season 1 we found out that squid ink disables a magic person in place, cinderella did that to rumplestiltskin... later on they referenced it again and asked emma to go look in rumple's cell to find a vat of it to do some more magical stuff with... so no its not an invented plot device, its a reused old plot device...prolly rememebered after writing the bit about mermaids
11
Reply
Flag
Lily, your reviews are always a godsend after the bonkers stuff this show pulls week after week.

Seriously, TWO conch-summoned plot devices within the first four episodes??? Was I the only one hoping the merman from Cabin in the Woods was coming for Neal?

And what they're doing with Emma's character feels very icky to me. I'm not knocking her for being emotional or having a lot of feelings wrapped up around her past or losing someone who WAS important to her, and I am really hoping that this is just part of how Neverland is affecting her - but the dude screwed her over in a really gross way, manipulated her life because another dude told him to, has only been a presence in Henry's life for like 5 minutes, was moving on with his life, and I really thought the show actually spent a season and a half telling me that Emma was moving on with hers. All of these supposed feelings between them just feel really forced and out of character. Don't even get me started on Emma and Hook.

Honestly I have never watched a show where I just don't get any of the canon relationships - like I either just can't see the appeal of them or the (supposed) chemistry between them, or I just flat out find them problematic with their real-life implications. Don't do this to our little girls, indeed.
More+
10
Reply
Flag
... At your current age, could you be with the person you dated/liked at 17?
Hell no!! I found my true love on my 18th birthday (which was also my 1st day of college) and we have 3 chubby kids together (AWWW, :swoon:, :cough cough, swallow back some puke:).

... After three seasons, with all the FTL flashbacks OUAT has done, how has the show not built a general fairy village backlot to integrate with the CGI? They can’t lay half a block of cobblestones?

Yeah, I usually don't care much about TV CGI/FX (looow expectations), but I have to agree with you on this one, as well as Lana's extensions in last week's episode.

... Did you lose respect for Emma, or are you giving her a pass because she feels like a “Lost Girl” on this island?
I'm kinda middle-of-the-road on this one. On the one hand, Emma is generally a good representation of a strong woman, physically and mentally. Like others have mentioned, she hasn't really taken the time to fully process Neal in all his stupidity (she gotta go through dem stages of grief, yo!). On the other, she needs to, as a coworker would say, "Take that stick out her ass and get back to work!". C'mon, Emma...your son's been kidnapped by bad music...YOU MUST SAVE HIM!!!

... What is Belle getting out of her relationship with Rumple?
Right now, nothing, which is why Ariel's being introduced in 2 episodes. She needs a bff like crazy!

... How will Prince Charming be cured?
Squid ink :)

... Will we ever see Aurora and Mulan in the same shot again?
Please, yes!! Not just for the sake of Mulan's love for her, but to wrap up their story lines with a little more dignity. As much as Season 2 was rough to watch, I did enjoy watching Mulan kick ass with Emma and Snow and Aurora evolving from a whiny brat into someone...a little less whiny.
More+
6
Reply
Flag
Staff
I respect the idea t hat Emma's breakdown was more an expression of needing closure/ another aspect of her feeling like a "Lost Girl"...in those terms its more acceptable. However I feel like the show is going to such desperate lengths to inject these love interests for her and Regina and they are seriously rushing it. The best love interests are a slow burn in my humble opinion, not a random featured extra that the show tells us is someone's "True Love"...I miss the subtlety of season one. It's no longer a show that asks you to make connections, instead it SHOUTS the connections at you: "EMMA LOVES NEAL SHE JUST SHOUTED IT." "CHARMING DOESN'T WANNA WORRY SNOW HE JUST SHOUTED IT" etc.
That's lovely about your husband & kids. I'm married to my college sweetheart as well. I would hope if I had an ex who tried to steal my car, got me to mule watches and then arranged for me to take the fall alone in jail, I would "unlike" that post immediately. :)
3
Reply
Flag
Definitely agree with your comment on the copy-and-paste love interests, which is why I hadn't really commented much last week about Robin being Regina's happy ending. I can justify it, logically not emotionally, but I'd rather see a slow burn as well. I'm really hoping that Sir Robz is a misdirection somehow. In fact, I hope that's the case with Neal, too. Not sure where the writers would go with that, but I'd like to see a character established who could upset the pre-established "relationships" (Ugh, do I have to call them that? Ha!).

Yeah, let's be grateful that our hubbies know not to pull a stunt like that. There would be hell to pay tenfold ;)
Reply
Flag

.. At your current age, could you be with the person you dated/liked at 17? Yes, if I loved them.

... Did you lose respect for Emma, or are you giving her a pass because she feels like a “Lost Girl” on this island?
Not at all. I've cried over someone I loved dying too. That does not make you weak, it makes you human.

... What is Belle getting out of her relationship with Rumple?
I think people are idiots if they think that's really Belle in Neverland. Use some common sense people. "She" knew everything that happened with Neal and Rumple, knew Neal was alive. No way Belle would know that without Rumple telling her. She's in Storybrooke, people. That Belle is either Rumple's conscience or Peter Pan screwing with him. Rumple thinks she's his conscience.

... How will Prince Charming be cured?
I can't say since it's a spoiler, but it's given away in the synopsis for the next episode.

... Will we ever see Aurora and Mulan in the same shot again?
Yes, I think in the second half of the season. No way this is over.
More+
6
Reply
Flag
Real disappointing and boring filler episode.

Why does the fact that Neal is alive make Rumple reconsider his decision not to kill Henry, shouldn't it be the other way round?
When he thought his son was dead he didn't have anything to live for (apparently Belle isn't enough) so wouldn't he be more inclined to kill Henry to prevent his downfall.
If his son is alive that means he has another chance to repair their relationship but if he killed Henry there is no way that that would happen and I doubt even Belle would still want to be with a man who killed his own grandson.
2
Reply
Flag

I don't think you realize that Rumple knows Belle's not really there and he believes he's talking to his conscience.
3
Reply
Flag
Staff
He always talks to Belle like she just pushed her way into a bathroom stall that he was occupying, whether he knows its her or knows its not. It's a weird aspect of their relationship but he is always like "Geddowdahere" and damn it I'd like for them to hug more.
2
Reply
Flag
"I’m talking of course about the disgusting scene where Emma Swan, our strong, independent heroine, BROKE DOWN IN TEARS over Neal."

What kind of bullcrap? You're saying she can't cry over someone she loves dying? She's weak for being upset about it? Really? Do you expect her to be a robot?

Someone else seriously needs to write these reviews because I'm disgusted. Teaching your readers that crying over a dead loved one makes you weak.
15
Reply
Flag
Staff
This is the last time I'm going to respond to this sort of thing, I've explained this review now about 10x and I think you're selectively reading my words, but here goes:
In Lost Girl I specifically praised Emma's break down and her crying and her valid emotions. That was well handled. We've seen her relationship with mary Margaret/snow develop and founder.
At no point haveI EVER said showing emotion is a bad thing, okay, you're over simplifying my point, which is:
It is dangerous and irresponsible to teach girls or boys or anyone to forgive a partner who uses or harms them. Neal had Emma sent to jail! HE NEVER LOOKED HER UP AFTERWARDS, IN THIS THE AGE OF FACEBOOK, BECAUSE HE WAS TOO CHICKEN!! HE KNEW WHAT HE DID WAS AWFUL!! In real life, women do get sent to jail for helping their partners store drugs or mule things or whatever. They have their credit cards used by shady boyfriends. They get slapped around by bad dudes who are supposedly their boyfriends/husbands.
It is incredibly dangerous to tell women people that they should value their warm tingly feelings for their partners ("but he's soooo sweet though") over the fact of how their partner actually treats them. That's how you create abusive cycles. I know Neal and Emma have a big elastic Fairy Tale world context that makes this all "okay", but WHY are they making it okay? Why are they taking our strong heroine and making her froot loops over a guy who was so incredibly awful to her? She can show emotion all day. I just want to know why it's emotion for him, because it feels slapped on and unearned.
More +
11
Reply
Flag
Lily, you have, indeed, 'splained and 'splained. For me, it's not the moment of tearfulness per se - there are many reasons why thinking of Neal could bring Emma to tears :-) But the tears being based upon her continuing luurrve for him is what makes this an unfounded plot device. And yep, I do think that it would be great if the people writing this show would actually follow through with the statements that they make for publicity purposes. But they don't.

I do think that there is a fascinating parallel between the women on this show who keep looking for things from men who have seriously let them down in the past, and the women in the audience (me included) who keep looking for things from these writers who have seriously let them down in the past. What is it that we keep looking for, and why do we keep ending up surprised when nothing changes? Basically a rhetorical question - but aren't we all interesting souls?
7
Reply
Flag
I don't know... But Emma crying for Neal made her more interesting and feminine. WE need more female leads like that.

Ha! Got you there for a second, didn't I?
6
Reply
Flag
I was almost sorry for you and then you saved it. Good one!
2
Reply
Flag
Load More Comments
Follow this Show
Members
15,464