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Once Upon a Time S03E21 & S03E22: "Snow Drifts" & "There's No Place Like Home"


It wasn’t until the closing moment of Once Upon a Time's Season 3 finale, when the show revealed that Disney intends to steer it into Frozen territory next season, that I truly felt the last bit of my hope for what this series could be evaporate out of my body like a puff of discontinued perfume. But guys, it's gone, it’s gone and it’s not coming back, because WTF a Frozen tie-in? I don’t want to sound impossibly speculative, but what if, a couple months from now, little kids are into the next big thing and NOT Frozen? Like the Jonas Cousins or Star Twins or Boob Quadruplets or whatever over-sexualized pre-teens du jour Disney is peddling come fall 2014? Does it make anyone else feel weird that Frozen’s ONLY cultural value is being (allegedly, according to unconfirmed rumor) the first (albeit heavily veiled) Disney fable about accepting gay loved ones, a topic that OUAT has seriously shilly-shallied on? Elsa rising from all that Blue Razzberry Jell-O at the end of this finale felt like such a cynical, calculated cash-in.


 As soon as Frozen got involved, OUAT moved from the realm of “adorably indulgent tale that possibly means something to someone, somewhere behind the scenes” to “the scripts are plotted out by algorithm via Disney marketing computers and shuttled by long pneumatic tubes to Vancouver.” My life, like your life, is finite—and for that reason it's precious, and I cannot in good conscience sit here and talk about OUAT like it’s a piece of pop-cultural art. That consideration belongs to things like My So Called Life and Twin Peaks, things with weird emotional hearts that bleed real blood. OUAT is a slick, shiny, finely tuned amusement-park ride, and I'm a fool for thinking otherwise. So let’s hit these ten talking points about the finale and go back to licking our wounds:


1. Why you have to burn a mom to death on Mother’s Day, Once Upon a Time? 

I know Snow used the dark fairy powder to turn herself into an inflammable ladybug, despite having her hands tied over her head, despite having only a fraction of a nanosecond between Regina’s fireball hitting the hay and the entire funeral pyre bursting into flames, but for at least as long as a commercial break on Mother’s Day, MILLIONS (okay, hundreds of thousands) of families nationwide believed they had just watched Snow White burn to death in front of her daughter.




Also, since Emma had magic all along, how did she not get upset enough to magically stop that from happening? HMMMM. 

Also also: Regina helped set the whole curse in motion for the joy of watching Snow White suffer without actually killing her. Yet in the finale, she could not kill Snow fast enough. She was like, "UNWRAP THE DURAFLAME LOGS—NO WAIT LEAVE THEM WRAPPED, THEY BURN FASTER!” This small change turned Regina into a much more bloodthirsty, sinister Evil Queen, and was a terribly sloppy retcon of Regina’s carefully balanced nature. Excuse me, that's a bit of an understatement. In fact, saying this whole episode was a sloppy retcon of Regina's well-earned redemption is like saying the Hindenburg had a sloppy landing.

Final also, cubed: Since Jiminy Cricket and Snow-as-an-Inflammable-Ladybug were able to summon the Blue Fairy, are fairies part insect?


2. Emma's breasts were uncredited featured extras this episode, rude



We spent a good five minutes when Emma first changed into Fairy Tale garb– and like every fan, this was a moment directly from my dreams– of Hook going “AH-OOOOGA!” and getting all cartoon wolf about her 4 inches of exposed sternum, until Emma was forced to throw her extensions over her décolletage the way one might throw a tarp over a dead body. Then later she broke out the girls to distract Past Hook from Future Hook commandeering his own ship. I have yet to see more male flesh on this show than Charming bearing his poison-riddled abs to Captain Hook six months ago. If there’s going to be good-natured sexual objectification as a plot point, you know what, sure! Sex is fun and often funny. But there better be some gender parity up in there, otherwise you’re making the little girls you claim to be writing Emma for feel actually very weird. 


3. Home is a feeling 

You know what, I like this message. I mean, all of OUAT’s messages are calculated to have inoffensive, universal appeal, so how could I not? But also I loved that Emma didn’t “get” how much she loved her parents until they no longer recognized her. Snow was like “Whoa, who are you?” and the reaction to her long hug was genuinely well done.



Still, if Emma has always been looking for a “feeling” of home, since Neal described it to her that time they broke into a rainy amusement park, it’s kind of crazy she does not give two shits where Henry’s concept of home is. Henry’s like “Hey let’s find an apartment, my other mom lives here, you know the one who raised me? Plus we get to be around the grandparents.” and Emma is like “Eh well, I’m still seeking that certain je ne sais quoi.”


4. Distracting body double stole the show

The combination of old footage, a boy in Snow’s costume, and Ginnifer Goodwin’s head with a giant cape wrapped around it fooled no one. I don't care, I actually love it when shows do their best to keep an actress employed despite the fact she has an actual life off-camera, but the mixing of old and new footage was, um, inexpert? Inexpert.


5. Emma is super into Hook now? 





Last week, Emma was furious at Hook for essentially attempting to kidnap Henry; by the end of this episode she was clinging to him like he was the last life raft on the Titanic. Part of it was because he explained he’d traded the Jolly Roger to come get her in NYC, which, sure—huge gesture! Fantastic! What a great dude! But just as a PSA to my younger ladies: If a guy does something nice for you, you are in no way obligated to reward him with physical or romantic affection. Unless you are carrying around a sign that says “Sex for money!!!” that’s not implicit in the social contract. In the immortal worlds of Destiny’s Child, “So what? You bought a pair of shoes / What now I guess you think I owe you?” Ya don’t.


6. This show will destroy Regina’s happiness, if it is the last thing It does


Emma faced zero consequences for her trip back into the past, except that she ruined Regina’s chances with Robin Hood by resurrecting his dead wife Maid Marion. I’m sorry Outlaw Queen is now a ghost ship, but aside from that scandal, what was with Regina’s immediate reset to FURIOUS because the guy she’d dated two times was no longer widowed? That made no sense. She didn’t become a loving, rational, redeemed family member just for some Robin Hood dick; her redemption arc started way back when she tried to give her life for Storybrooke. And when Emma finally got to see her in her fabulous fairy-tale outfits, Emma made some snide comment about her looking worse than when she wears her “sensible pantsuits”? Bitch, she’s been wearing zip-up couture bandage dresses the last half-season, where have you been? Sigh.

I don't even have the heart to point out that both of them explained to their beards that they're used to running away from the people they want to be with. Just overall: I don’t know what’s more painful, feeling gaslit all season about Swan Queen subtext or having it entirely excised, as it was in this episode. Something beautiful has been lost, something that with a little courage could have materially changed a lot of lives! Apparently that's not OUAT's problem, though, so moving on...


7. Rumple is such a dick, though

After using his betamax-erasing magic to fiddle with the security tapes, Rumple then stood there and listened to Belle have a panic attack about her fake dagger without batting an eyelash. Then, later, he and Belle got married in the dead of night in a clump of trees while dressed up like Nathan Detroit and Miss Adelaide from Guys and Dolls.




P.S. Archie officiated? Sure. Whatever, y’all actually atheists with a thing for gangster hats and scarves, I guess. I did like that Emma got to see Rumple in full, trilled-out, fingers-a-twiddle Rumpelstiltskin mode, if only because it was fun watching Jennifer Morrison try to keep a straight face across from Robert Carlyle with the fake teeth and lizard contacts in.


8. Uncle brother’s name

Snow: “We’re naming your brother after the man who impregnated you.” Emma: “Very cool, not to mention appropriate!” Rumpelstiltskin: “My son’s name was Baelfire, Bae for short, but, you know, whatever.” Grumpy: “Guys didn’t Aurora just have a baby too? Cuz remember that joke I was making, about how if it was born a day earlier it’d be a monkey, hahaha? Yeah I don’t care about her either. Is Phillip dead again guys? Guys, how many of you even leave Granny’s anymore? I sleep underneath the back booth now and take showers under the rain gutters. More cake? Sure!”




9. How long would you watch yourself make out with a person you wanted to get with? 

Because Hook did not last 27 seconds before popping himself in the head. I for one would be RIVETED!




10. Frozen Season 4?


So is Elsa the Big Bad for next season? Will she sing at us about her feelings, because as I understand it that’s pretty much all she did in the movie. Who will she be related to? Snow’s sister or something? Can you find it in your heart to care? Does the collapsing of the creative and retail fields into one large economic singularity scare you? Can companies manufacture our own goodwill toward them if their test-marketing is really on-point? Are the only cultural values we can all cheerfully agree on hollow and purposefully vague? “Let It Go”? What does “let it go” mean? How much money have you personally spent on Frozen-related products for loved ones and family? Would a picture of Baudelaire move product? What do you love? Who made it? Are you tired? Are you just so tired? 



QUESTIONS:

... All of the above!


Previously Aired Episode

AIRED ON 5/15/2016

Season 5 : Episode 23

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You know honestly, the Frozen tie-in didn't really bother me too much.
I mean sure, they have like a backload of stories to depend on but if they want to be more contemporary, that's up to them.

What truly pissed me off is once again, Regina's fate. Like, they spent the entire season trying to show how she has time and again saved all their asses, redeemed themselves, forgiven her sister and been accepted by all - only to have it all ruined all over again?

Now let me ask: How come Rumple gets to have his happy ending when he clearly betrayed everyone and essentially caused the whole portal thing to open up and change it all? Regina was right in the previous episode when she was trying to stop Rumple from killing Zelena by reminding him of the countless people they've killed in their quest for power. But she's the only one who has tried to compensate for that and yet she again ends up with the short stick. Brilliant.
For once I'm praying Tink's silly rendition of true love is enough to hold up for the next season.
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Boy I'm glad I watched this ep before reading this review or I wouldn't have had so much fun with it. I guess I just enjoyed the ride. I stopped any critical thinking from interfering with my "let's just enjoy the quirky fairy tale" default mode since S2.
There is a Swan/Queen substext??? Seriously? I have missed that too? Or is it just this reviewer's fanfictiony wishful thinking? Because my Ship radar has been honed into a fine tool since Mulder and Scully chased their first UFO, but Swan/Regina, nope, didn't see that one. Snow/Regina on the other hand...
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Lily I'm very worried that you didn't write the article about OUAT at Comic Con! Don't be leaving us without your reviews next season!
Did you see the vid about the writers coming up with the Frozen idea? I love that they can make fun of themselves :)
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Why is going into Frozen territory such a bad thing; after all, isn't the Agents of SHIELD show doing exactly that?
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Haha! This article was so right and hilarious. I actually wrote 2 posts on my blog about how awful the second half of season 3 was and how they ruined EVERYTHING and didn't even blink. I want to hope, but I don't know if I can... *tear* links here:

http://reelreflections11.blogspot.com/2014/04/who-is-really-telling-story-my-latest.html

http://reelreflections11.blogspot.com/2014/05/what-fairy-dust-was-that-my-thoughts-on.html
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Regarding why I'm worried about the Frozen tie-in:

OUAT has a history of taking stories that are actually allegories for fairly deep things that have nothing to do with romantic love, and turning them into simple rehashes of the same tale of romantic love. Rapunzel, for example. In most incarnations (including Disney's), Rapunzel is a story about overprotective parenting, adolescent rebellion, and growing up. OUAT's version: a woman afraid of marriage gets herself locked in a tower.

I don't want to see Frozen get the same treatment. Frozen is kind of unique among Disney fairy-tales, in that it's not all about getting the Prince. In fact, that's not what it's about at all. Frozen is all about how we close ourselves off from the people we care about most (specifically, family), in order to protect them, and how that self-imposed isolation and fear can lead to self-fulfilling prophecies and just wind up hurting everybody.

Elsa and Anna are both extraordinarily relatable characters, especially for anybody who's ever experienced clinical depression (I was actually crying quite a lot during the movie, including during "Let It Go," which is actually kind of a desperate song). And the story is also extraordinarily relatable, and surprisingly deep (even Olaf, the comic relief sidekick who loves to give people hugs, was created from Elsa, who also created the giant snow monster who keeps everybody away. Pretty heavy symbolism there).

I don't want to see OUAT's "reinterpretation" of that story. At all. The story was perfect as it was.
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I agree about Rapunzel and other stories in general. I also get what you're saying about Frozen being an anomaly because of its focus on family love vs. getting the prince (I'd argue that Beauty and the Beast actually did well in that respect too), but I have to say that comparing its plot with that of the original story actually makes me think less of Disney's ability to avoid romantic plots than Frozen might otherwise suggest. I mean, in the original story you have two children: one willing to sacrifice everything to save the other from a cold life without love. It's only Disney's version that has added a romantic side story for the Gerta character (Anna), and that side story is a love triangle no less. Comparing Frozen with other Disney movies: yes, it is less focused on romance and more on family and emotional isolation, but looking at it as an adaptation highlights the romantic make-over it received at the hands of Disney, imo.

All that to say, I am not thrilled at all about Frozen, but I'm not thrilled because I don't think Disney's adaptation is any good. I'm hoping that whatever they do with it will emphasize those parts of the story (maybe, hope against hope, the original story) that were strongest: self-sacrifice and enduring loyalty and the power of a woman/girl (in the original story, mostly on her own) to undergo a difficult journey for a loved one.
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(Oh, and just a quick general PSA: there was no love triangle in Frozen. Unless you count Anna, Elsa, and Olaf, who barely qualify.

One of the things that bothers me most about Twilight is that it's completely messed up everybody's definition of the term, "love triangle," so that people think that things that aren't love triangles are, and that things that are love triangles aren't. This has resulted in love triangles being given an undeserved bad name. Real love triangles are actually awesome.

Not a love triangle:
  • Anna, Sven, and Hans in Frozen. In fact, they're barely even a rivalry.
  • Bella, Jacob, and Edward in Twilight. That's a rivalry.
  • Emma, Hook, and Neal might have been a love triangle, if they'd played up the relationship between Hook and Neal more and we'd actually felt it. But as it was, it felt like a rivalry.

Some examples of actual love triangles (with three points and three sides, each side representing love, creating a unique tension that only happens in love triangles):
  • Peter, Walter, and Olivia from Fringe. This is actually my favorite current love triangle. Romantic love between Peter and Olivia, affection between Olivia and Walter, and filial love between Peter and Walter. This creates a beautiful tension in, say, the final scene of S2E15, that is a perfect example of the dynamic of a love triangle done right.
  • Luke, Leia, and Han. Close friendship between Luke and Han, affection between Luke and Leia, and romantic love between Leia and Han.
  • Harry, Ron, and Hermione from Harry Potter. Close friendships between Harry and Ron, and Harry and Hermione, and romantic love between Ron and Hermione.
That's it. Sorry about the double, and about the PSA. This is one of those few things that bothers me so much, I feel I have to give this PSA at every available opportunity, until people stop using a term that actually describes something very beautiful and poignant, to describe something very boring.
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Er... "Anna, Sven, and Hans in Frozen. In fact, they're barely even a rivalry." Should read: "Anna, Kristoff, and Hans in Frozen. In fact, they're barely even a rivalry." [No, I wasn't talking about bestiality! I just blanked on Kristoff's name for a moment! :P ]
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I tend not to compare Disney movies, in general, to their original source material, because, especially if you're coming from the standpoint of the original being superior by virtue of it being "the original," you often miss out on the positive things Disney added. Also... well... [points to The Little Mermaid. And Tangled. And... any Disney movie adapted from an older fairy tale, actually]

To me, the most powerful and meaningful parts of Frozen were all related to all the symbolism and themes surrounding the character of Elsa. Specifically, the themes of mutual loneliness, depression, self-imposed isolation, and the damage that can be done by well-meaning parents telling their children to, "conceal, don't feel." And then the power of love to conquer all that. These were all themes that spoke to me on a very personal level.

I still can't listen to, "do you want to build a snowman?" without crying. I actually cried during "Let it go," which I saw as less triumphant and more desperate. I loved the contrast between Olaf, the loving snowman created by Elsa who just wants to give hugs, and Marshmallow, the gigantic frightening snowman created by Elsa who was created to keep people away. That's... pretty powerful symbolism right there, when you think about it, and in a kids' movie.
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(sorry about being repetitive, btw. I made the mistake of not rereading my original post before posting this reply, so I'd forgotten that I'd said... pretty much everything in the final paragraph... before). :}
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Of all my complaints about the season finale or the season in general, Elsa is not one of them, it's definitely a grab for money, but I was very surprised with the reveal that I have to give the show thumps up.
Here is the thing, OUAT has absolutely no limits, the imaginative adding, mixing and changing of origin stories is the only good thing in the show (err, ok casting is good too) I love classics and I want to see them mixed up with new stories, it's simply amusing. just don't think too much about it..."let it go!"
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We all knew that something bad will happen if Emma took that girl to the future.. DAMN YOU AND YOUR GOOD HEART EMMA, finally Regina found love, I have a bad feeling that the history will repeat, since Snow ruined her first love and Emma ruined her second.. ups, like mother like daughter :o
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It seems like some people don't understand why people are upset about Elsa. Here is my humble reason.

I have noticed several people make the comment, "I haven't watched Frozen yet. I'll have to see it before S4 begins!" That is exactly why I see bringing Elsa in as a manipulative cash grab. You can say it's based on HCA's Ice Queen all you want, but she was dressed like Elsa and Once is using Disney's Frozen in their promo materials.

People are going to go out and spend money on a Disney property in order to more fully grasp or enjoy (verbs many of us have given up on with this mess) their Sunday night TV show. By choosing to introduce a character that has never seen the inside of the Disney vault, they are hoping we will buy the newer story instead of relying on what we already know about older, more familiar characters.

Out of the dozens of untapped characters they could introduce (or in lieu of doing something interesting with the already-tapped ones), they chose to introduce one that not everyone has seen yet. They are either hoping to hitch their wagon to the star of a popular movie (a lazy way to increase viewership rather than actually write a compelling show), or they aim to make people buy Frozen over the hiatus to familiarize themselves with this new character (manipulative, especially considering the fact that she'll likely be dead three episodes in).

Just my take on it. I think they should axe Once and make a spinoff (with new writers) called Rumplestiltskin that films in Scotland so Bobby can be near his family.
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Didn't you once propose "An hour of Robert Carlyle Doing Whatever the Hell he Wants"? I would so sign up for that show! And if Bobby has any deep-seated directorial ambitions, now could be the time. Just saying..
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Yes! They should let him out or give him complete creative control of this show. On the stipulation that he write a Rumple love scene into every episode.
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There are people who watch OUAT, who have not seen Frozen yet? Strange...
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I hope Elsa won't be main antagonist...
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Finally, I am a BIG fan of Regina and Robin “This show will destroy Regina’s happiness, if it is the last thing It does” – I completely agree!!! Why oh why can’t they give Regina some peace?!? I don’t think after three episodes that Outlaw Queen was deeply in love but I thought the romance was promising and cute. And I LOVED that she was finally getting someone to keep her from being lonely (Henry notwithstanding). But, oh no, Emma had to go and bring someone back from the past which turns out to be someone who can ruin Regina’s happiness (not to mention, completely change the future…oh wait, that’s right it didn’t…see first point). And to those who say Marian is Robin’s true love…since when has that stopped OUAT??? I don’t recall seeing/reading about the Beast being a commoner turned sorcerer who doubles as Rumplestiltskin. Or maybe I missed that part of the back story. Plus Peter Pan was BAD…and the “Beast’s”/Rumplestiltskin’s father!! Not to mention, Mulan was a protector for Sleeping Beauty, Princess Aurora and later went to join Robin’s merry men. I’m just saying…they seemed ok with making stuff up as they go before so why shouldn’t Robin and Marian love story be a casualty. I won’t even go into the fact that Regina not seeing his face and it could be someone else is the coward’s way out after they started getting us invested in Outlaw Queen.

Overall, my interest had somewhat waned during season 2 and early in this season (3). Once I caught up after this year’s mid-season break I was actually getting interested again but now am not sure if this will stick come fall. Hopefully, the writers have something good in store but at this point, I’m not too optimistic.
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I finally got around to watching the OUAT season finale. After watching, I thought to myself “I could have put this off longer…like until just before the season premiere in the fall”. It started off promising but kind of fizzled towards the end. It was kind of a let-down for a few reasons:

First, I don’t get how all’s well that ends well seeing as how Emma and Hook CHANGED THE PAST. I mean, from what I know of time travel (which is mostly from my extensive movie-watching research) ANYTHING you change in the past can completely change the future. (Ever heard of the butterfly effect…) So, they were able to get Snow and Charming’s story back on track but what about all the other things they changed?? I was expecting them to come back to a completely different Storybrooke. Instead it was explained away with a few additional memories. I think a new Storybrooke would have been an interesting start to Season 4 (at least for me) instead of the old Bring a Villain Back from the Enchanted Forest shtick.

Which brings me to my second point: I really don’t know why they are bringing Frozen to OUAT. I didn’t see the movie so I have no idea what happens with this character. This is why I was a little peeved that they would bring on a less established character when they still have so many other Disney/fairy tale people they could have introduced. One of the reasons I watch OUAT is because I never know what characters I know and love that will show up. I don’t know this Frozen/snow queen character at all so as of right now they’ve kind of lost me with this new turn of events.
(to be continued...)
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If there are ripple effects from Emma changing the past, which there probably ought to be, then I hope we see some of the bad decisions reversed. If I got to pick, I'd ask for Graham to come back, and maybe make a play for Red; August instead of Pinocchio; and Maleficient in her dragon form. It would even be interesting to see if "The Dragon" from August's Chinatown adventure is actually the lost friend Mulan was seeking...
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I love your articles even if i disagree with about 90% of what you say. Still it's your opinion and your entitled to it. I do feel like I need to point one thing out on this particular one. Regina did not set the curse in motion for the joy of watching Snow White suffer without actually killing her. She would have gladly killed her but Snow cast a spell on her so that she could not harm her or Charming while in that land rather then executing her.
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I don't understand why this, in my opinion, best episode of this season, is kind of trashed in this review. Neither do I understand why Frozen aka Hans Christian Anderson's snow queen is a no go area for OUAT. It's just another fairy tale that has been covered by Disney, like, oh I remember: snow white??

I am looking forward to next season, something that hadn't happened all season untill this episode. All this season I couldn't get bothered about the evil... I tape my episodes and fast forwarded every scene with the wicked witch in it.

And ofcours Emma and Hook hooking up is not just about him giving up his ship. Emma has had feelings for him al along, but has never been convinced that he cared for her more than his precious ship or being a pirate. Now she knows: he gave up his ship and he came after her in the time machine-thing. Comparing that to giving a pair of shoes is just... quite missing the point.
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I think the problem you might run into is the question surrounding the interpretation of Emma's actual feelings. This isn't something that can be objectively stated as fact, so you have some viewers who believe that Emma has always had feelings for Hook (with varying degrees of evidence they have interpreted to that end), and then you have others (admittedly like myself) who are feeling like Emma and Hook's relationship is an afterthought with little actual buildup. I'm not looking for a ship war here, so please don't anyone get started on proving Hook and Emma have been in love since season two. I'm just trying to point out that it's a really debatable question and that's why, no matter which camp you're in, you have to realize that there are probably as many people who feel downright confused as there are those who are feeling totally justified by Hook and Emma getting together in the last episode. And that should be OK.
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It's Friday and I've got some time to kill, I decided to come back and be a bit more rational about this season finale thing.

1) Emma's been to the Enchanted Forest twice now and neither time were particularly pleasant for her. I would think that by now she'd be somewhat thankful that Regina cast that curse and Snow put her in the magic tree and she didn't have to grow up there. Sure, being an orphan and bouncing around the foster system sucks, but she doesn't seem like the type that would enjoy the princess ball stuff. Sure it's fun to get dressed up and go once for the experience, but not all the time. She strikes me as more of the young Regina type who would prefer hanging out in the stables, riding horses, and being outside creating her own adventures than a textbook Disney Princess. She got to grow up in the modern world with working plumbing, her life doesn't revolve around arranged marriage for the sake of the Kingdom or true love, and she didn't have to worry about fighting in an ogre war. She's street smart and can take care of herself (although the writers seem to have forgotten this in the 2nd half of season 3). Without that curse, she wouldn't have had Henry either. If I were her, I'd be buying Regina beers thanking her for that curse.

2) Since they're going to pull Frozen on us, then I hope that Maleficent explodes at the box office next week so that hopefully the back half of season 4 is Maleficent (no the scene where Emma sleighs the dragon doesn't count, and we know she's still "active" in the dungeon under the library because Regina used Hook to distract her in her ghost/ash form in season 2). There's also a live action Cinderella slated for next year, maybe we can get the evil step sisters in season 5? If they're going to sell out, then I hope these live action movies are so badass I will accept them being thrown into the mix in this show.

Have a good summer y'all

And because some of y'all take this show way too seriously and trolling this forum is fun…..

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I'd love to see the evil stepsisters myself- I imagine them as desperately hitting on anything with a "Y' chromosome and a hint of royal lineage. Maybe because they're broke? And I would adore Maleficient back! I really want to know why she had it in for Aurora's mom (as well as Aurora and Phillip). But it would be nice to see some other fairy tale characters too- maybe the Japanese oni?
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Bringing Marian back has ruined things for me more than the Frozen thing. Though that's just ridiculous.
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I personally love the fact that it appears Frozen is going to be in the next season. I prefer it to the Wizard of Oz. Besides, although she's dressed like the Disney character, the Disney movie was (loosely, like all of them) based on an actual fairy tale, in this case, the Snow Queen by Hans Christian Andersen. And I'm pretty sure a lot of Once Upon a Time is based on a mixture of the originals and Disney versions. It has a bit of that darkness from the originals, but still has quite a bit of that sugar-coating from Disney.
Personally, I can't wait to see this. I liked the movie Frozen (although I didn't think it lived up to the hype. maybe that's just because I'm old), and I loved the Snow Queen, although I wish it was longer. Which is a lot more than I can say for the Wizard of Oz...
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Frozen ruined ouat for me dam it
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I can't believe there are some people who still blame Regina now. Like, LOL. I don't know what show these people are watching but apprently they don't understand the complexity of the character. Regina is a multidimensional character, she is neither "good" or "evil", she is not black or white. She is fifty shades of grey. Of course she won't go back to being "evil" and she's not going to kill Emma! She'll just stop trusting Emma and will give her the cold shoulder.

I simply hope for the sake of this show that they won't make a love triangle Regina/Robin/Marian because that would be wrong on so many levels...
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Yikes! Lily...you and I are not watching the same show. I have no quarrel with Disney or the writers. I trust there are others out there who feel the same. No need to attack me...I come in peace.
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1. Emma could not have saved Snow because she didn't have her magic back. Like in a previous episode, she had to shed her emotional baggage before she could use it again. Once she unloaded on Hook in Rumples' warehouse of horrors, it returned.

People might be turned into bugs, but they retain their human intelligence and will. It is not surprising such an insect (though not all of course, only those that once were human) could summon the fairies.

6. Regina is/was/forever will be calculating, that's true. But her impulse to kill Snow was right on the mark in my opinion as Snow had invaded Regina's castle, and had a legitimate weapon with her.

As for Regina's evil re-set switch, I found it believable. She had known of Robin Hood before she knew his name, she had a hope that he was her soul mate, they did eventually come together and it does appear that the Charming family has a way of destroying Regina's chances at true love. Since True love is a form of white magic, when it's lost it makes sense that she reverts to dark magic.

8. I thought it odd to name the child Neal as well, but having family from the old world I understand to some there is great importance in keeping a name alive.

10. As for how much money I've spent on Frozen products, that'd be zero. I have no kids and have not seen the movie Frozen.

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Ok we've always known ouat was that silly show that somehow still got you hooked and made you cry every other episode. But this? This was seriously disappointing. I always try not to take the show so seriously but this was too much.

First of all that trip to the past, while entertaining, was pretty random. They went back for two episodes and got back and bam done. These two episodes portray really well what OUAT has been like since the end of the first season. They just jump from one story to another; one villain comes, gets defeated and leaves in less than 10 episodes and they simply find a new one to replace them. They don't stick to a story, they take everything too fast and focus too much on the crazy stuff and it's getting really tiring. Like, instead of idk, focusing on telling the story of the characters for a while, talking about what they're feeling, solving their many issues, nahh they just introduce a new character and we go back to running through the plot. God, I miss Season 1.

But all that wasn't even the worst of this finale. What pissed me off the most was what they did to Regina and all her redemption arc. If there was still any doubt, I am now convinced that this show will always destroy whatever chance Regina has at happiness. Look, no matter what you ship, no matter if you like Outlaw Queen or not, Regina did NOT deserve that. She just spent 2 seasons working hard to redeem herself and she was finally on the right path. She saved everyone at least 3 times this season and was happy, as she deserved to be. And then they just go and ruin it? Because they have nothing else to do? Yeah I get they need drama and I get most couples have to go through some rough times before becoming truly canon but seriously couldn't they leave Regina happy just once? Does it always have to be her? Emma makes mistakes, but no problem, she gets her love, she gets her happy ending. Snow and Charming make mistakes but there they are, stronger and happier than ever. Regina on the other hand may try all she might to be good and do the right thing but nah, let's screw her over one more time. I'm sorry but that's just not ok. Besides, I'm betting they're gonna use this to turn Regina to the dark side again and that will be just like throwing away the last 3 seasons and all of her redemption arc. They're basically restarting the story: Regina, heartbroken and angry because one of the charmings destroyed her chance at love. Been there, done that, OUAT.

One more thing that pissed me off deeply was Elsa. It's been clear for some time that a lot of stuff OUAT does is just for the sake of fame and money, but this was just ridiculous. This wasn't something planned, this wasn't anything that the writers wanted to do for a long time, this was simply a decision they made to take advantage of the recent success of a Disney movie and win money.

So yeah, I'm pretty disappointed with the show. It used to be so good during the first season, when it felt like it had a purpose, and now it just seems to be spiraling into something that just goes along with whatever crazy idea the writers can come up with. However, I'm still hooked to the show and too attached to the characters to just let go, so I sincerely hope they find a way to prove me wrong. Can't say I'd bet on that, though.
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Can't say I missed some of the angst in Season One- but it was worth watching, which is more than I can say for most shows. My bet is that Regina will find her happy ending- just not quickly. (What would be left for the show? Friday night takeout?)

If Zelena is still out there (as I believe), then Regina needs to deal with her before she can settle down anyway! And if my viewing pals are right that Henry is going to develop magic as he moves into puberty, perhaps he'll be able to reset the reset.
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Except that as the writers already said they are NOT restarting REgina's story. It won't be a repeat of what happened before, as showcased taht Regina did not just vaporize Emma and instead focused on more pressing matters of what else changed. We are going to see the difference on how Regina reacts to such sitaution NOW that she has reconciled with the good in her.
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I must thank you, I cracked up at No.8, That's all folks.
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I really liked this ending... IF the show was canceled it would have been a happy ending ( well except for Regina but she DID kill her husband and was a vindictive bitch for aloooong time and killed whoevr she wanted sooo.. not sure she deserves a happy ending ... UNLESS she can get over what happened with Emma bringing Marion back.. IF she can NOT turn into super evil queen mode THEN she can find the REAL person with the tattoo.. I am supposing more then one person could have the same tat???) OK so I have not watched Frozen.. I guess I may this summer BUT maybe not knowing the original story will be good...I really do hope Regina stays mostly good. AND will people please get off the SWAN/QUEEN thing... they are NOT a gay couple-- NOT!!! IF you want a gay couple.. fine but don't look for them in every female conflict.
I am glad this show was renewed.
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Thank you so much for your honest Swan/Queen comment. I agree 100%.
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Frozen IS the Snow Queen fairy-tale adapted like all Disney fairy-tale films are adapted. Instead of Anna searching for her brother stolen by the Snow Queen, she is in search of the Snow Queen who is her sister. So ejemima don't be disappointed as we are getting Hans Christen Anderson's Snow Queen in the form of Elsa. Knowing once they will blend the Disney film with the original fairy-tale. I for one am interested to see where this is going and lets be honest it was bound to happen at some stage so why not Season 4? Give it a chance and for those who haven't seen Frozen please reserve judgement till after you have seen the film. Almost all of ONCE is Disney stories re-imagined. It is rare their adaption is closer to the original fairy-tale. The Disney adaption is usually more closely adhered to.
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I don't really understand why so many people are upset about the Frozen/Elsa ending. Why is it okay to do Peter Pan and Wizard of Oz, but not Frozen? Just because it's the latest Disney film? This makes no sense to me. Especially since we haven't even seen their take on it. Shouldn't we at least reserve judgment until we see how the story will be written? I, for one, enjoyed the Peter Pan story more than the WOZ. Just my opinion.
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So that person at the end was a characters from Frozen? Gotta say I'm a little, if not very, dissapointed then. I havn't seen the movie, so I don't know the character, but I thought it was the Snowqueen and got all excited. Thinking about it, would it hurt the show to put some of H.C. Andersen's fairytale characters into the mix? The Snowqueen would be a brilliant antagonist, and I'm not just saying this because I'm danish. Look at Narnia, the snowqueen made a pretty good vilian in that one... ;)
I don't really know about this SQ ship, must have happened in one of those episodes I skipped, but I love Emma and Hook, I think they're adorable, and I basically just love Hook. I'm a sucker for villian-falling-in-love-and-becoming-a-hero clichés :P
Didn't really think much of the namegiving, but I can see the points and how it is a little inappropriate. I didn't really care much for Neal, but that's mostly because I ship Emma and Hook, so he's kinda in the way :P
I feel so sorry for Regina and I had really hoped she would get her break and be happy, but then that woman had to be Marion. Why? If Robin, just without hesitation accepts and goes back to Marion, he's a dick and Regina can do much better. What ever happened to the whole 'soulmate' and 'one true love' thing? He will have to choose...
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The show did Anderson fairy tale - Little mermaid
The problem is a lot of his stuff doesn't fit the show all that well, as stuff like the ugly duckling would hardly work.

I suppose maybe they can do the pea princess.
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Elsa is pretty much Snow Queen, but without the sexist twist of "omg a rich powerful stranger is kidnapping all the people from the good honest timid obedient virgin country girls" and is not being shamed or antagonized by the narrative for being different.


Frozen pretty much fuses the character of Kai from the fairytale and the character of Snow Queen into a single person. So instead of a two females fighting over a male, you have a girl trying to save her own sister from herself(and people's perceptions of her), turning the story that is all about medieval isolation and fear of strangers into a story of self-acceptance. In a sense its one of the first Disney animated films that do not focus on girl and boy seeking each other.


In a sense its "sort of" an origin story, with narrative exploring in what kind of society and setting someone akin to the original fairytale Snow Queen could be born in to become such a person and what would need to happen for that and on how people are not just "born" evil - its the events that shape them and society that perceives them that play the deciding factors on whether one is viewed as "good" or "evil". . .
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They should have named the baby prince Charles, after the guy who helped them meet (AKA Hook). That would have been funny, and more appropriate than Neal.
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Didn't we hear earlier in the season that Maid Marian died in childbirth?? Continuity, continuity...
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That was never stated.

Robin said that he "lost her" long after they had their child. It is implied that he does not know she was executed by Regina, but thinks she died some other way, which will be explained next season.
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I don't remember hearing that
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Well, at least interpolating Frozen will give Storybrooke some more realistic Maine weather. They've done this all along, and it doesn't really bother me - the show is definitely cream cheese.
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They named their baby Neal. I don't understand (I can't make sense of it) how Snow and Charming readily accepted Neal. I believe most fathers would have knocked his lights out upon meeting him. Fuck Neal! but may he rest in peace. I agree he's not a bad guy (at heart) but he's no freaking hero. How do you name your baby after the MAN that knocked-up your teenage daughter. Forget about the whole taking off so Emma can do her destiny thing. But whatever, I digress. I'm frustrated cause I can't see what the writers and other Neal fan sees. Charming would never had let Snow suffer for his crimes so she can fulfill her "destiny". He would "hope" that destiny will work itself out lol. Oh yeah

I think the developing relationship between Hook and Emma is ligit and sorta cute and this is from a SQ shipper. Actually if Emma and Grumpy were a couple I'd probably root for them too - As long as it wasn't Neal. haha, that's kinda mean.

Killian is cool-ish and his humor lessens some of his greasy aspects and his icky chest hairs. ew. Though I don't think his chest hairs are real. I think its like those tattoo shirts that people wear.

Robin is boring. When Robin talks (and try to be humorous) all I wish is that someone will pick whatever pea or corn pebble he has stuck up his nose.
I also wish his wife and son many happy days away in some foresty campground leading a happy life away from my TV screen.

Ever wonder how scandalous a Whale/Regina affair would be. No? just me then.

I digressed A LOT.

The finale was good, it was a fun episode. SQ fans don't despair. Some of the best SQ times occurred when Regina and Emma were at their worst with each other.
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How about Emmo for a name? ohh well it's too late.
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Until I read this, it never occurred to me how dodgy it all is. We have no idea what Neal's real age is. But we're looking at something in the range of 300 odd years. And he took up with a 17 year old. I'm pretty open minded, but that's a hell of an age gap.
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Your comment just made me realize...shouldn't Hook already have been in Neverland when Snow and Charming were getting together? Continuity, continuity...
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Errr...yes, Neal is a horrible person but he IS a hero - if not for Neal's sacrifice, Zelena would have been successful and none of them would exist.

And yeah CS is legitimately brilliantly built up and I don't see why that would make SQ-ers rage, if there was ANY chance of polyamory it would be between those three.
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except that he's literally a hero in the end.
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I wanted to read your post; however, my eyes are not so good and I could barely read the dark, tiny typeface. Sorry! Perhaps post a summary of your main ideas here, if you have time and inclination, of course?
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Not my post, but here it is:

"We took some time to reply this, because – is there anything left to be said about that horrid display of banality that we got served as a ‘grand’ finale? Apart from the conclusion that it represented the ultimate pinnacle of their writing for the lowest common denominator: those who happily bought CS and OQ drivel despite their ultimately atrocious male chauvinist nature that perpetuates anti-choice and anti-individualism, and is basically degrading for all female characters as much as it is insulting for all female viewers with any and all sense of self-worth.

Yes. This goes way beyond the PoC issue or the ridiculously hackneyed ‘twist’ that will (quite possibly so, aren’t we all expiring in anticipation?) antagonize Regina enough to revert back to the Evil Queen, because… *mock gasp* Did you see Entertainment Weekly’s sensational “Does Marian’s return mean the return of Evil Regina” article? Because yes, cheap trivial character retro/de-gradation for the sake of EQ being ‘more fun’ for general masses (and hopefully attracting more of that superficially shallow viewership that would mostly care about ships featuring those dashing hunky men) trumps anything else. Because it’s not infuriating to (quite possibly so) see our favourite character slip back into that selfish, self-centered, vengeance obsessed, anti-Charmings (character development of two last seasons be damned?) two-dimensional persona? And for what? Catering that miniscule (and yet more belligerent, due to heteronormativity-enforced entitlement) part of CS fandom that aggressively ships OQ because it’ll, what - ‘beat’ SQ? Or something else that’s beyond me, because I can’t for the life of me accept the utter lack of logic and/or emotional resonance that is the ONLY thing that characterizes this three-and-a-half episode ‘slow-burn’ that is OQ.

So, no. No other explanation apart from the fact that this ‘twist’ was also (possibly, probably?) un/intentionally meant to be the nail in the proverbial SQ coffin as well. Because of course, gaypanic. As simply put, whether SQ was completely unintentional (though, if so – someone please explain how could theypossibly remain oblivious to it?), or it was unintentional but then later used/abused with quite intentional baiting (because queer fanbase ratings and money – are ratings and money nonetheless) or it just got out of hand (my own personal theory: until CC they had no idea of the size of that fanbase, after which they got shit scared of possible repercussions from the GA part of viewership)everything that happened in S3 was symptomatic. Because its sudden shift of focus onto ships, soulmates, love triangles, in-your-face stalkerish/pining, rape-culture associated, sins-whitewashed LI’s – stinks up to high heavens either way, doesn’t it?

So this ‘twist’ now, of Regina blaming Emma for the similar thing she spent some 40-ish (give or take) years blaming her mother (though it is kind of ridiculous to compare your love’s heart being ripped out of his chest right in front of you, with the loss of a man you’ve dated for three days because gosh, he’s not a widower anymore as the woman he loved dearly, the mother of his child that died at yourhand nonetheless – IS alive after all) is also very much contrived too. Because, what’s way more worrisome is Emma’s sudden, whiplash-inducing slip back into her selfish, defensive “Henry is mine and you don’t matter despite being his other mother” persona, the one who isn’t the same Emma that had that amazing conversation with Regina, back when they were making that potion only several episodes ago. Because, why again? ‘Cause that, godforbid, could have been mass (mis)interpreted as ‘romantic’ and because of GA’s possible ‘no-homo’ panic attack, we were now robbed of our usual “Swan-Mills family” (speaking focus-wise only) season ending, when the crux of the show is on the hero, antihero andtheir son. But hey, it’s not like either of them seem to care about their son anymore as much as they care about their male love interests (you’d think Regina would be over the moon once Henry got his memories back, but no, handholding with the replacement family seemed more important – just like ‘thankful’ Emma is to Hook for all his support to find her strength, and all the lies he spewed about in the process) because of course, crappy, crappy writing. Sadly, Henry seems to be important plot device only when he makes some colossal screwup and needs to be saved, by team moms. So this particular contrivance is neither here nor there now. Apart from the fact that SQ fanbase now being painfully divided about it. Again. This time between being disillusioned, ultimately shoved away and pissed off and hopeless, and – still hopeful and optimistic and positive.
As if we needed MORE stuff to be dis-united and arguing about.

While sadly, the only thing we all agree on is Regina’s atrociously OOC ‘development’ this season. Hood being shady as a speculation was a possible plot-twist that would’ve been banal per se, because it would have been bad in that cringeworthy, clichéd, predictable kind of way. But no, we got an even worsescenario: he turned out to be ALL that he seemed as from the very moment he got ‘announced’ (after a makeover of a new face and a tattoo, as ‘man enough’ to handle her?) as her LI: a bland, personality deprived piece of a manflesh, as useful as a treetrunk under which he ‘hid’ her heart. And ultimately, an INSULTING emotional ‘plot twist’ for the most complex character on the show.

And where does that leave us, now? Some people are so pathetically desperate to justify this ship so they’re now forcefully rationalizing it by going that far to claim that Marion should still die because doesn’t belong in the ‘here and now’ (some drivel about defying destined time/continuity laws, as she was ‘fated to die because she broke ‘can’t reverse death’ and ‘can’t change the past’ laws of magic and now she has to pay – as if SHE was the one who broke those laws) because basically she’s now an obstacle, Hood’s moved on and all that jazz. Now, continuity and logic (sorry, lack of) of why would he be interested in the Evil Queen in the first place aside (other than it being a warp-speed plot contrivance, as someone finally “sees her as a different person”, and that someone is NOT only Emma Swan anymore?) they are conveniently forgetting major issue (slash, plothole) of who was responsible for Marion’s death. Of how come he couldn’t have known (she what, disappeared and wasn’t executed publicly by ‘his Milady’ as a scary example to all other commons who dared to help Snow White – as if it wasn’t evident from the scene when she was seized by the guards as well as Evil Queen’s general ‘messaging’ style, like the obliteration of the entire village that helped Snow?) and how it’ll pan out that Regina probably wasn’t culpable for it, and Marion likely died in another way entirely? But just about when you want to start to wiggle your index-finger next to your temple in a ‘wtf’ fashion, wait – it actually gets worse. They are even rationalizing that their son (affectionately called ‘Ro’) was too small to remember his mother anyway, so now he’ll be fine with her dying and he’ll get over it easily as she ‘hasn’t been a part of the active and aware part of his life’.
*stares incredulously*

I know. What the soddin’ fuck? Because that kind of ultimately selfish rationalization/justification is there for basically wanting to tear apart the loving family and deprive a toddler of his mother, for what? For the sake of perpetuation of an ultimately insulting ‘relationship’ (apologies for the use of the word again, even though it’s a mockery of a relationship) which in all actuality is WORSE than CS, because love it or hate it – at least that one had more than three-and-a-half episode span of ‘development’. So their transparent desire to see Marian out of the picture to make way for OQ, the ship for which Regina Mills, the Evil fucking Queen has been reduced to a love interest of an extra, an inconsequential, underdeveloped background character that has been a guest (and an unwelcome one at that, to most of the viewership) for like, what, fourepisodes – is beyond asinine. Is Macguire that hot? Because that is the only logical explanation (valid, albeit baffling – because not all of us straight fangirls have to find any random male interest that could “make our Queen happy” as hot by default, in fact I find him as repulsive as his snotty Tweets, just like I didn’t fall for Hook being incredibly handsome, because guess what – so was Ted Bundy!) to be hopeful to see him shirtless or whatnot, because they can’t possibly be thatdesperate for his amazing acting ‘skills’ (I know, lol) to now fantasize about all these colourful ‘Final Destination’ scenarios for poor Lady Marion. The woman that has always been Robin of Sherwood’s (the cool dude from our childhood stories, not this useless, pathetic impostor and a charlatan) soulmate, and true love?

But in the end to go back to the bigger picture, of what all of this means for OUaT: ultimately, I have personally just wasted thirty minutes of my life here, discussing YET ANOTHER FUCKING LOVE TRIANGLE.
Is THAT what we should ‘look forward’ to, in S4?

I don’t know about you, but I signed up for that cool show about strong female characters, that promised to redefine roles of women traditionally indoctrinated by those old, repressive culture/gender stereotyped fairytale stories.
If only someone would be kind enough to tell me where the hell that cool show disappeared to now."
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My take has always been that Regina and Emma made perfect foils for each other, and made a better couple together than Emma did with Neal or August. Their relationship is complex because of Henry- neither can truly hate the other for long, although it looks like the writers are trying to make htat happen again. Regina didn't have much of a love life in Storybrooke- Graham was coerced! Although I would have enjoyed watching a Regina/Graham/Emma triangle unfold for a little longer...

I didn't necessarily want to see any of the guys shirtless: although I confess to wanting Hook out of that outfit!
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Wow. Thanks for taking the time to post this.
Now, I'm a bit speechless, lol.
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Did they use old footage near end when emma was watching her parents ?
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And why is it a bad thing to use old footage? It helped to keep consistency.
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I didn't say it was bad, Snow(Ginnifer) looked so young all of a sudden, I wanted to check if my eyes were failing me.
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Sorry...I'm feeling defensive. I get what you're saying.
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YES. It was pretty obvious. Everyone looked so less exhausted in the old footage. Probably from not realizing how many other characters they were going to be related to.
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Oh before i forget. I was very very skeptical about emma and hook. I thought they were a mismatch. until he revealed he traded his ship to get to emma. Gotta give it to him. He deserved a happy ending. Hook became Killian.
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Neal gave up his life to save Emma.
Regina gave up her own happy-ending (her son) and offered Emma good memories, the life that Emma always wanted.

Hook gave up... a boat? Yeah sure, that makes it all better. Nevermind that the pirate never had to redeem himself for the shitty things that he's done over the looong time he's been alive. Or that he even admitted to Emma that he used to get girls drunk to sleep with them. But yeah, Hook's a hero and a gentleman, and totally worthy of Emma.
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Oh boy its like talking to myself :D

First, i said hook became killian not a hero.
Second, Regina had her happy ending, that's everything she had at that moment. Just like you said, Neal had to give his life to save Emma, because that was the only way. Hook only had his boat. And he ditched her to get the potion to Emma, which could backfire P.

And we all know, happy-endings aren't always, well, eternal. He deserved the kiss at the end, For all i know, they would be hating each other at the start of next season because Hook cheated on her :D
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People have a poor notion of fairytales if they think that an ice queen is only avaible in disney's Frozen. There are a lot more stories. We'll see. I only dislike the time travelling aspect. This will happen more and more.

Besides that: isn't this just Glinda from Oz? She was banished to the enchanted forest last week remember?

And is it just me or do all actors except for Emma look a little puffy? And not only the women. Charming looks a bit bloated too.


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I don't think that is what everyone is raging about in regards to Frozen. I think it is more that of ALL the possible fairytales, that chose Frozen (not even the actual Ice Queen, because the dress is obviously a disney reference).
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Most things in ONCE are a Disney reference.
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Did disney do rumplestitskin? Or red riding hood? I do see that disney has a devastating effect on fairytales, but the shows offers a little more.
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I don't think it needs to be Frozen. The Snow Queen is a set of stories by Hans Christian Andersen. It has some nice things.
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They already confirmed that it's Elsa from Frozen
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Regarding your 'puffy' comment, I've wondered the same thing for quite some time. They are still a good looking group, no doubt, (and we can give a pass to Goodwin as she's pregnant). But it does look like several others have been trying that new cosmetic injectable that increases facial collagen. For a while, I even wondered if Parrilla might be suffering from an auto-immune disorder that necessitated use of Prednisone. But you're right - several of the others have subsequently 'puffed up' in the same way, so hopefully it's just due to 'work'.
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Back una momento for 2 reasons:

First, I want to wish all in this vibrant community a great summer!

Second, I did want to be clear that I consider ongoing cosmetic work a necessary professional expense for anyone in show business - male and female alike. When I see it, I always just hope that any facial puffiness is due to the 'work' necessitated by the work, rather than to any illness necessitating corticosteroids. No implied criticism to those who need to keep their faces looking as youthful as possible!
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Do you really believe stuffing collagen in one's face is a necessity of the acting business when the job partly consists in expressing emotions via the nuances of the human facial expressions? You have to admit it's a little bit ironic. Also, wrinckles are expressive!

Staying young is (sadly) inherent to Hollywood, and the idea has spread like a disease, so it's actually a thing, now, in the occidental world. It clearly matters to a lot of people, but I don't think it's a good enough reason to encourage it. It's not a necessity to the job, it can't be. It would be like saying drinking problems are required to be a Nobel Prize winner in Literature or that you can't play the blues unless you do drugs. Sometimes those prosthesis make for better talents, better lasting ones (ahem, or not, in some cases) but it's not, thank the god of science, it is not a sine qua none condition to be an artist, and let's not encourage it, please!

Look at Emmanuelle Riva! She was nominated for an Oscar 1 or 2 years ago and she was an 85 years old lady looking like a 200 years old gremlin, so actresses and actors don't have to go through surgery to get recognition or acting parts. Surgery is a cosmetic choice at best, a psychological problem at worst -well, my opinion anyway. We're allowed to look puffy, aren't we? And to be fat and tattoed like Lena Dunham, who btw has talent, recognition and a mantlepiece full of prizes. Oh and I don't know if you've seen the recent Short Term 12? It's a great movie and Brie Larson, who plays the main character, doesn't seem to be wearing make-up in it. Not even the kind of make-up that makes you look like you're not wearing make-up, you know? Well, it's refreshing to see a movie in which the actors' face is not painted like a stolen car. And it's awesome to get the confirmation that it doesn't need glitter to be good.

Also, there's a chance everybody in Hollywood is having surgery due to the fact that any acting part over 50 is handed to Meryl Streep, which is NOT a good reason.
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A consideration for the cast of OUAT is that they skip through time so often that there is an added demand for the cast to try to remain looking the same.
As well as Snow and Charming, Emma is also looking puffy and Belle. Alana not so much.
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Hi punkin! Did you know that Robert Carlyle was quoted as saying that male actors who don't at least use moisturizer are doing themselves a disservice? So you're right there. I kinda think Ginnifer and Josh were doing the "baby puffy" thing- at least I hope so! (Lots of guys put on sympathy weight during their women's pregnancies) but don't know about the rest of them.
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Hi. I never said that I encourage the cultural realities/pressures that come with fandom and stardom in the USA, any more than I 'support' anorexia just because there is great pressure in the business for (especially female) celebrities to appear thin. But most people who are trying for 'celebrity' need to do what they can to appear young and vital for as long as possible. Acknowledging that reality is the first step in giving the public a more informed choice about whether to support the reality, or not. Denying that it is a reality of the trade, just because we wish that it wasn't a reality of the trade, simply helps to maintain the pressure.
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Having never watched anything remotely connected with Frozen i was wondering who the big bad was at the end...but lets be honest just how many beloved story characters can pass thru Storeybrook. I think it is time to leave OUAT
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Just had a chance to view the episode, and, Lily, I share your frustration and sense of fatigue. My biggest personal frustration, however, has nothing to do with the future of the series - just that I sure hope you can still find the energy to review it, as your reviews are the highlights of every OUAT season for me.

And moving from the boring to the interesting, I'd heard a rumor that you are thinking of writing and illustrating a book of fairytales from a 'Lily' perspective. I sure hope that you do, and I know that a lot of your commentators (me, for instance :-) would want to be kept informed it that's gonna happen.

Finally, did the OUAT producers really say something like 'In the finale, we'll give you something that you didn't even know you want' (speaking to the audience). If so, what was that??? Regina getting crushed again? Elsa?

Good lord, I know that we all sound stupid sometimes when we are quoted, but any way that they could be more condescending to their audience?

Write, Lily, write!
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Put me on the waiting list to buy that book- especially if you illustrate it, Lily!
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"As soon as Frozen got involved, OUAT moved from the realm of 'adorably indulgent tale that possibly means something to someone, somewhere behind the scenes' to 'the scripts are plotted out by algorithm via Disney marketing computers and shuttled by long pneumatic tubes to Vancouver.' "
This soooo perfectly captures my issue with the ending!

Throughout all the ups and downs I've constantly argued/defended/rationalized the choices of the OUAT writing staff but THIS, THIS is too much. I mean hell I accepted the Frankenstein episode, so even I was a lil surprised by my gut reaction of "ab#n!writya;et?LE" followed by severe head shaking, dropped jaw and then a guttural "NOOOOOOOO" of true disbelief.

Shameless, absolutely shameless selling ploy for selling more Frozen (which btw doesn't even need it as it's awesome). Or even worse a ploy to increase viewership with a Frozen tie in, OMG, that's not the way to increase a fan base!

Sadly I am a glutton for punishment so will continue to watch this ship sail into the sunset/off a cliff, unlike the sane people (Lily possibly one of them by the justified sounds of this review) who will spend an hour elsewhere. I too feel the fool for expecting and wanting more.
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From this review, it looks like Lily is finally done with OUAT. More's the pity because I really loved all her reviews (except this one) where she lovingly chastised the writers.
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LOL, as if... It just won't be the same without her :)
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A lot people hating on Emma because she bring back Marion and ruined
Regina happiness, bitches please!. Regina kill the sexy, handsome Sheriff Graham. Imagine if Emma find out one day...Holy Mary Margaret
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Not to mention, she didn't even know. What was she expected to do? Kill her?
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Here's what I don't get, if Marian was imprisoned and to be executed for helping Snow then why when snow returned from bug form ignored her and went straight to and stayed with Red? Maybe an oversight but surely some mention of gratitude should have been stated by Snow for the willing sacrifice.......?
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  • Snow was not in the village when Marion was captured. I don't even think she knows who Marion is because she did not seem to know Robin when they went back to the E.F.
  • She went to Red because they were friends and of all the people who were there when she was turned back, the only one she knew well was Red. Her and Charming were not together, Emma and Hook were magically disguised not that she would necessarily have really recognized Emma anyway, though she did have a very short look at Hook in his actual form.
  • Besides, we did not see Emma mention to Snow that Marion was rescued and imprisoned in the first place because she was trying to help Snow. Very shortly after, Marion was knocked out and stayed that way until they were in S.B.
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There are probably a lot of people who helped Snow even though they only knew her as the princess, not as an individual. No way Snow could be expected to remember them all.
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I just want Regina to be happy. She has went through a lot in her life and this season she has shown she generally cares for others (Snow)... It broke my heart when I saw Maid Marian come back. :( I just pray they don't put her back at square one.
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Allow me to point out something that I just realized...Emma a Hook traveled back in time some 30 something years back, before her parents met and she was born, rescued Maid Marian and brought her to the present...why is her son still just a kid and not Emma's age or actually a few years older???????? Did I miss something? The only reason to bring in Elsa next is to cash in on the whole Frozen mania.
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Yes. You missed whole freaking second season - since the moment the curse hit, both storybrooke and FTL were frozen in time - in Storybrooke "time simply stopped" as the characters lived on, while in FTL, the leftover people NOT In Cora's safe-haven, litterally froze in place till Emma broke the curse.

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Slight correction, the people IN Cora's safe haven were frozen in place.
The people outside of it were carried off by the curse.
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LOL. Whenever someone points out plot holes I can't help but think of Lily's screenshots from last week and it makes me giggle





Let this be a warning to you, keen eyed viewer!

(tee hee hee)
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It's actually fun to try making sense of the so-called "errors" (admittedly easier to be silly with them) but I still think there's a lot the writers are throwing in to see what people catch. Kinda like video "easter eggs" Then when the fans write about it they get a feel for what the viewers liked.
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You're right. It is one of the fun things about it. :D
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Plot holes ...plot holes all around!!! Get used to it if you are sticking with the show. I won't
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right there with you Lily. have my standars and the elusive continuity and logic of this show is just painful. OQ is just painful to watch. CS is just boring. and I kind of lost a little respect for Emma in this season finale. I got hooked in s1 and s1 but the rest has been kind of awfull... your recaps just made it all a little more funny . Anyway I am quiting this show. Enough. Thanks for yours recaps.
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I understand that people see Frozen as a marketing scam but don't forget that it is a fairy tale and Once Upon A Time is about fairy tales. If that is what most people are upset about, I'm not sure I watch the show the same way that other people do. What got me most upset is seeing Regina's happiness being shattered AGAIN. Who cares that she's been dating this guy for two seconds or longer. Hook told Emma to think about the consequences of her actions, Hook told Emma that the woman needed to die and Emma didn't listen. I totally understand why Regina is angry at Emma. Emma went through hell and back to safe her parents when she messed with their story line, but she had no problem changing someone else's story. I understand it wasn't in Emma's moral code to let someone die, but still. I also don't think that this puts Regina back to block one, she's still changed but angry. People can change and be angry.
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It's not that they are doing Frozen - It's that they are doing Frozen *now*
The marketing scheme is just too obvious on the nose. If they had done that in season 7 or so, it wouldn't bother me at all.
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Disney is not the only corporation that markets children's toys. Who cares? It's highly unlikely that OUAT viewers will go out and buy a passel of Frozen merchandise because Elsa is now on the show. Kids love Frozen...their parents already buy the merchandise. I rather think the writers are choosing a current, popular figure to write about. And I have no problem with that. I'm surprised by the number of (apparently) Disney haters out there. I grew up loving it and so did my children.
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Again, this isn't a Disney hate issue.
Let me put it this way, if the writers recently saw Frozen and thought to themselves "Wow, this was so inspiring we got to put this on the show!" I would have no problem with that.

But since I'm not going to buy a bridge anytime soon... I'm pretty sure that it went something like that:
"Yo, listen up writers, the network is forcing us to do Frozen stuff to sell merchandise. So get to it ASAP."

You understand the difference? I mean what's going to happen the season after that when the new Star Wars is out? Are they going to add Yoda to the show?
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Yeah... I'm sure that it's totally their idea.

It has nothing to do with the fact that the Frozen musical is in the works or that Disney execs said they wanted to explode with it as fast as they can - that must be a coincidence as well.

Pretty much the same way that Emma and Henry were sitting in New York and playing Diablo 3 with in dialogue proper game terms exactly on the same week the expansion came out!
That's an amazing coincidence too right!

Look, if you want to buy it that this was some artistic choice, by all means, I'm not into ruining people's mood just for the heck of it. But I'm not that naive.
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I do understand the difference. I suppose I'm just not that cynical. Please refer to the quote from Kitsis and Horowitz posted below by sqlady210 from their recent Inside TV interview. They are saying exactly that they were inspired by the movie/character, and I believe them.
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OMG all of this rage just because they brought Frozen to this ?
i loved Frozen and i'm happy they brought it to OUAT, and destroying Regina's happiness again was a brilliant move especially since it was a mistake by Emma just like what happened with Snow and Regina.
and i'm very excited about the fourth season.
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uhm. I'm not so sure of how they could make it work elsa as the big bad; unless they don't take the andersen fairy-tale as inspiration, keeping oly frozen's look to gain audience and publicity.
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You can be a good guy and still be the "villain of the story"

As Red Riding Hood.

Elsa's goals simply might be in the opposite of the main character's goals. Or they can be misinterpreted.

In the season where Emma will be dealing with the fact that her act of goodwill destroyed Regina's happiness and Regina will showcase her change by not reacting the same way to it as she did to Snow, a morally ambiguous villain fits right in.
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ask*
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And who said she was a big bad?
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True! We don't have any idea how the story will be written.
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Peter Pan isn't a villian originally, and they made him a bad guy.
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I just realised Robin has been raising a pre-schooler for 30 years. Sucks to be him.
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But his preschooler is so cute, who could deny those dimples?
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This show just crystallizes down into an unctuous nothing. I was really into Regina keeping her adoptive child and her redemption through that. But, now we get a forced relationship with Robin, who is neither charming nor interesting. What can it be that people like about Outlaw Queen? Regina is just not interesting with this person.

Also, why do so many consistently keep spelling Maid Marian's name as Marion? What's up with that?
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"Marion" was John Wayne's real name, wasn't it? Perhaps folks are confused
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"You are just like your mother" honestly I am getting tired of the Snows Cock blocking Regina.
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Okay, and I'm sick of hearing this: "Emma kissed Hook because she felt obligated to/was rewarding him/thought he deserved it!"

NO. SHE DIDN'T. Emma, this entire effing season, has struggled with feelings for Hook. It's no secret, by any means. Emma's biggest problem with loving anyone--Hook or Neal or anyone--was that the person might turn on her, be a liar, be someone she can't trust. Trust issues were her big thing. So the entire conflict Emma was having was whether she should given into her blatant feelings for Hook (see: Neverland Captain Swan kiss) or avoid a relationship, per Emma norm. When Hook goes on this whole thing to save her (he did willingly go into the past with her), helps her through all of these time-related and emotional/family-related problems, and tells her that he gave up his most important and beloved possession in the universes for her, she finally realizes something.
Hook. Loves. Emma. Entirely.
It's not puppy love. It's not fleeting. She realized he's not giving up on her, or betraying her, or leaving her alone. She realized all he's done for her and finally realized that yes, she can give into her feelings for Hook because she's not going to get hurt in this--at least, not by him.
Emma realized her love for Killian, and that his reciprocated love wasn't false, was something she could trust in.

It was not a reward.
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Agreed. I thought it was the whole "Emma running away" thing to run away from her feelings to avoid getting hurt. The premise of the episode was that Emma never felt loved or a part of the EF world which is why she was always running from it. And Rumple's vows voice over applied to her and to show how far she had come

"when we met, I wasn't just unloved and unloving. I was an enemy of love. It had only ever brought me pain. The walls were up but you brought them down. You brought me home."

I never got the impression she was feeling obliged to reward Hook. I kinda like their wacky courtship :)
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The season finale felt more like a Christmas Special on Doctor Who lol.
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