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Once Upon a Time S03E08: "Think Lovely Thoughts"


Robbie Kay, guys! I think he’s headed for great things. I don’t know if I’ve really gotten into how much this actor impresses me every week. He manages to pull off this fantastic combination of boyish and sinister. Pan as an abstract notion was such a saving grace at the end of the otherwise dismal Season 2, so casting Pan for this season was an absolutely make-or-break crucial task, and OUAT nailed it! Robbie Kay nailed it. 


Robbie Kay is making me BELIEVE this season (or at least diligently ignore the 2006 cut-scene-level CGI), and I just see big things for him regardless of whether or not the Charming/Gold/Mills family skewers him up like so much cheap chicken next week as they certainly shall (I’ll be very sad to see him go, really... no offense, Henry). While we’re patting casting on the back: How did OUAT find a little kid who was so convincingly Robert Carlyle at age nine? Between Baby Snow and Baby Rumple, the show's casting is just so untouchable that I’m starting to worry (as perhaps the actors should) if the producers actually have access to cloning technology. 

Anyway, let’s start at the top. Way back, a guy who did a great Robert Carlyle impression with a touch of “Crazy Eyes” earned a livin’ by playing three-card monte. He was also known far and wide as a cheat and a coward, so much so that he had to give his son to a pair of elderly spinning women. So far, so good.



Meanwhile, back in Neverland, Regina was complaining about how Emma ran off to go look for Neal, wasting valuable magic-practicing time. Rumple was like “I know Neal is alive and I can’t wait to put his son into his arms!” and Regina gave him this long hard look with so much quiet, defeated rage. Like “We’re still doing this, the thing where everybody completely ignores the fact I raised Henry for 11 years and Neal met him mmmmaybe three days ago?” 

Meanwhile on the other side of the Home Depot Garden section where OUAT's been filming its Neverland scenes, Snow was happily boy-talkin’ with her daughter. Specifically about how she was going to abandon her daughter AGAIN to stay with Charming in Neverland. So much for proving Emma wasn't a Lost Girl! Snow claimed she didn’t want to, but raising her New Clean Babies in a treehouse with David maybe wasn’t sounding so bad to her after all. Certainly an upgrade from the three generations sharing one apartment shituation  they’ve currently got going on in Storybrooke.




Two minutes later, everyone was reunited! The whole extended family and Hook and Tinker Bell. And Neal dropped the hammer on Rumple: He was out to DESTROY Henry! Showing their usual flair for priorities, the Charmings threatened to carve the Dark One into pieces to keep him from killing Henry, despite the fact that no one even knew where Henry was. Then Regina made all the Lost Boys pass out and the fam learned that Neal had put another bitch besides Emma behind bars.




Yup, like most criminals who manipulate women into taking the fall for them, Neal had run this little scam before: Wendy took his place in jail so Pan would free him to return to his... family? Wait, she said she knew he had no family? Basically Wendy was like “I took your place in jail because you seem more important than me and my family” and Emma realized that, much like a sailor with a girl in every port, in every dimension there is likely some poor bitch who's languishing in jail for Neal’s benefit. He is good at literally and figuratively compartmentalizing people.

Anyway, besides being a patsy, Wendy was also a world-class liar, and she started rattling off some tale about Henry to the grown-ups until Rumple interceded and called her out, reminding her we’d all seen the episode promo about sixty times and knew Henry and Pan were headed off to Skull Island so Pan could steal Henry’s heart. Yes, Henry is at the tender age where you can’t calculate one body minus one heart equals one corpse, and everyone knew he’d fall for whatever cockamamie tripe Pan was about to feed to him.


So everyone remotely useful and Neal decided to head over to the island to stop Pan, and the Charmings and Hook and Tinker Bell decided to, like, watch the Lost Boys sleep? Sure. I think Regina and Emma just gave them some busy work to do make them feel important while they were off saving Henry. 

In our flashblacks at this point, we were learning that Rumple had gotten a magical bean from the delightful pair of biddies who took him in and IMMEDIATELY turned it over to his dad and was like “Let’s escape your terrible reputation to a whole other world.” Ironically, this is EXACTLY what Bae would try to do with Rumple later, when Rumple shook him off like a hangnail and they became separated way back in the day. Rumple’s dad was totally game, though, and they disappeared hand-in-hand into Neverland, which Rumple’s dad remembered from his dreams!


We were about to learn that of all the many magic addicts and bad parents on this show, Rumple’s dad by far took the cake. Of all the horrible, abandoning, emotionally stunted characters, Rumple’s dad was by far the worst. He wanted to just go to Neverland and do magic and fly and eat cake, CLEARLY an analogy for a charismatic, manic father who just wants to go live in a van in the woods getting high all day and all night while listening to Animal Collective. As a kid you know that’s a bad plan, but you can’t vocalize why, and you love your parent, and the fact that your shoes are always tight and they sometimes drive you really crazy and wake up screaming isn’t a dealbreaker when you’re very young. Poor Rumple’s dad was desperate for “pixie dust” and intent on scoring some. 

So Pan’s shadow, who has been a mute smoke monster all this time (except for when he was making out with Rumple while disguised as Belle) showed up butt-naked as ever and struck a deal with Rumple’s dad in a really crazy voice—if he abandoned Baby Rumple he could regain his youth and enjoy Neverland forever!


Guys, this is a brilliant metaphor for parental abandonment in general. “A child cannot have a child” totally sums up why some people shut down toward their children. The whole concept of “Peter Pan” relating to arrested development and the danger it can wreak in terms of negligent parenting, and the role of “pixie dust”/self-gratification in that equation—I just sat there nodding along to all of it. Rereading Peter Pan as an absent father (who later became obsessed with bossing around a bunch of similar perpetual adolescents) fit and it made emotional sense and seemed to connect to a larger real-world problem while reinterpreting a fairy-tale, as this show has done in its best moments. So thank you, writing room! Amazing work!! I know usually you are the cheese and I am the weird old fashioned tin grater and I rake you across my gauged surface and shred you to pieces, but I thought this was a well-done reveal for Pan’s origin story. 


However, what was badly done (haha, my approval is so short-lived) was that after Rumple crossed over the line (it was magicked to keep out anyone who had a shadow, sure, whatever) and stood face to face with Pan, Pan confronted him with his own Pandora’s box! He had somehow magicked an exact replica and then exchanged it with the one Rumple had, without Rumple realizing it, and without standing near to Rumple at any point that I remember, because of all his three-card monte experience from 500 years ago. Nope. Anyway, he sucked Rumple up into Pandora’s sparkly box like Rumple was reverse body spray. Yikes!





Because Emma hilariously did a 360 degree backwards cartwheel when she tried to cross the line, she and Regina decided to cause a LUNAR ECLIPSE to get rid of their shadows so  they could follow Rumple up into the Skull Room. Regina told Emma she needed help, because she trusts Emma like that and they rely on each other and believe their magic can literally move planets. We had all seen this moment approximately 80 times before, it was HIGHLY promoted. And disappointingly, no new footage was attached besides, like, a little peek of shadow on the moon. I guess we will simply have to imagine that afterwards, Emma and Regina congratulated each other in a way suitable for two people who have just generated enough “magic” (which as we’ve learned = emotion) to successfully shift a space object thereby cast a shadow on the moon. 





I did love that Regina and Emma were side by side on the boat staring toward the island together, mentally holding hands. I can just see Neal stepping into the boat and Regina stepping into the boat and Emma just plopping right next to Regina and Neal being like “Can’t wait to see our son!” and Regina being like “I know right, and so close to his birthday!” and he’s all “I... know, right!” and she’s all “You don’t know his birthday, do you? Eye color? Shoe size? Middle name?” and he’s just like “How 'bout I just row?” and she’s like “Just remember that that's your level of participation in parenting Henry—donating your sea man services.” and then Emma bursts out laughing. 


Tangent! Anyway, by this time we’d learned the shadow had given Peter Pan a finite amount of time to be a youthful demigod, and that time was running out, and only by slappin’ Henry’s young dumb heart into his own breast could he continue to be Peter Pan. We also learned that Rumple’s doll had been named Peter Pan (aw) and that the Shadow was kind enough to drop him back by the old biddies’ house. Anyway, with Rumple now sloshing around inside a gaudy perfume bottle, Henry’s life would depend on his parents' ability to convince him they weren’t a passel of liars.

I have a question here: If Pan can magic anything into his hand and is amazingly deft at snatching things from people, why didn’t he just take Henry’s heart in the first place? Why groom him psychologically for several weeks and then go back and forth arguing with Emma and Regina and whatshisface?

Also I’m sorry, but Henry you are old enough to know what happens when you remove a heart from a living person, I would hope. Granted both Emma and Regina have violated his trust in past seasons, but the fact Henry chose to give his heart to Pan was just so dumb of him, just terribly dumb. I fear that the Charming penchant for pointless self sacrifice may have skipped a generation. Henry did say that if he’d learned one thing from his family, it was that heroes had to sacrifice again and again and again. No, Henry, the Charmings just fumble the ball a LOT, and it hurts them and everyone they love, like that time Greg and Tamara snatched you right out of their very arms. Anyway.





So a giant magical pulse swept through all the land, as it does approx. every three months  on OUAT, and now the question is: WTF?! How are they going to... bring Henry back to life? I mean, I know we’re operating in dream logic where Henry can probably live indefinitely—after all, Aurora was bustling around heartless for two episodes in Season 2 while her cardiovascular organ was at the bottom of Hook’s satchel. So TWO WEEKS from now we’ll see if they get Pan or commit Henry’s body to a hasty sea burial. I’m guessing they save Henry. Still, quite curious to see how!


QUESTIONS:

... The reveal that Pan is Rumple’s dad: brilliant, horrible, shocker or saw it coming?

... Henry: too stupid to live?

... Um, if Regina and Emma can cause a lunar eclipse then WTF can’t they do? Like are they officially superheroes?

... Snow wanting to restart on Neverland: callous?

... Did your heart grow three sizes when David tossed Hook a weapon? 

... Are you secretly/not so secretly devastated that OUAT is taking a week-long hiatus?


Previously Aired Episode

AIRED ON 9/25/2016

Season 6 : Episode 1

Next Episode

AIRS ON 10/2/2016

Season 6 : Episode 2

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Look you're hilarious and all but the amount of man hate that seeps from your reviews is disconcerting to say the least. Then there's the fact that you want SwanQueen to happen so badly that you will literally hate any man that crosses Emma or Regina's paths. Not cool. You hold a grudge against all the male characters for every little offense they've ever done while trivializing or outright ignoring all the horrible things Regina has done (genocides, murder, taking her anger out on a child, casting curses and messing with peoples lives, and lets not forget RAPE---what she did to Graham was RAPE, 28 damn years of it to be precise---but I guess it's 'empowering to women and it happened to a man so therefore...it's okay I guess? Gotta love those double standards. No seriously---WHERE is your outrage about any of that? This might come as a shock to you sweetie but not every man on planet is good-for-nothing-piece-of-shit and not all the women on the planet are their helpless-pure-as-the-new-fallen-snow-victims.. There are some flawed guys out there but a few bad choices or clumsy mistakes doesn't make them less deserving of second chances or a little respect and acknowledgment for the things they do right. Like your favorite punchline, Prince Charming, who certainly has his flaws BUT he has unwavering loyal and love for his wife, daughter, and grandson for YEARS (except for the years he was cursed but that's not his fault). He's a good honest guy. Neal made some pretty bad choices back when he was with Emma, but he more than made up for it for going to Neverland to save his son from Pan. He didn't just 'walk' away this time, he went back to help. I suppose that just...counts for nothing??? If so, that's fucking ridiculous.
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as for the heart thing, we've seen LOADS of people surviving without their hearts. the huntsman/sherrif, regina's mother, both of whom went insane periods of time without their hearts. unless you're arguing that he's living without his heart, while pan is using it, which i suppose would be different?
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Lily, you completely missed the mark on the Wendy and Neal situation. Wendy came back to Neverland to save Bae. Bae had went in place of her brother. He had no idea she was there. How was any of that his fault? How was that situation even at all similar to the situation with Emma? I think you were way off on that one. Also, Pan couldn't just "magic" the heart into his hands. He had already addressed this issue as well. It had to be given willingly.
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Omigod your commentary is great.
So I appreciated the PeterPanIsRumplesDad lark. I thought they did well with it. It carried much more emotional impact and quickening of plot than any of the episodes before. It also explored the Rumpelstiltskin - Peter Pan relationship which I have been dying to see for a very very long time. That's literally the only thing I've been asking for this season.
Disapproved of the ending highly though. Nobody wants to see a show where people make dumb actions. And Henry is dumb. So dumb. Like graaaaahhh, I want to grab a lamp and beat him until he remembers, "OH JA pain is bad, things that involve ripping my OWNGODDAMN heart out probably aren't for the best." I can't even. And that final Peter Pan-Rumpelstiltskin facedown? Could have been handled a lot better. OUAT was carrying on pretty fine through this episode, but reverted back to unoriginal plot twists and shallow explorations of relationships and character towards the end. And yeah that Pandora's box switchup. Worst plot twist that I saw coming. That not only gives Peter Pan immense power to be able to do that but insults Rumple's intellect that he didn't know about that being a possibility. God. Grah. Still, looking forward to Monday's episode. I want to see this thing resolved.
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Also I think you are being a little too hard on Neal here. What Wendy probably meant was that she followed him to Neverland all those years ago to save him and take him back home. I think one of the episodes last season made it clear that Neal was pretty much made a member of the Darling family.
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A little late to the party here. But I was expecting to see Lily's take on Regina and Rumple this episode. Regina's expression when he reminded her that he was the one who taught here magic was priceless.
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Haha, Pan got the heart of a True Idiot. Please oh please keep Henry dead! He was just soooo dumb there. The show is finally getting good again, don't screw it up ABC!

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Ok, I had to scroll down and say how much in love the Snow/Emma pics."Oh yeah-that's like a 'thing' with you huh" Oh I have never lol'd like that before!
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oh, the heart of the Truest Believer had to be given willingly. Pan said so early on to the weirdo with the club and cloak when he told him why Henry was special. what's with that creepy guy anyway? is he Rumple's uncle? hehe

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I didn't see any promos so this was all new to me. I really liked this episode and I loved the moment when Neal/Bae realized his dad wasn't lying the whole time. I was super surprised to learn that Rumple's dad is Pan and that Pan trapped him so easily. It was very anti-climactic. Henry was so stupid not listening to the parents who have all loved him for so long and going with Pan who he completely mistrusted minutes before. I'm interested to see how they get H's heart back from Pan and Rumple from the box.
I totally loved how Emma told Hook and Neal to shut it cuz I was afraid the love triangle would really be played up. I really wish Rumple had changed that idiotic coat at some point. They're all wearing coats in the jungle... make sense? No.
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I wonder about the tension between Robbie and Robbert during the shooting of the pandora box scene. I wonder how many takes it took.
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Pan as Rumple's dad: I did NOT see that coming.
Henry: too stupid to live?: WAY!
Regina and Emma superheroes: I think they are cooperating now but the show is gearing up for another showdown. They've done a good job of keeping Regina a consistent villain. Emma was already a superhero(she is the savior, right?).
Snow/Neverland: Again, consistent with her character- true love before everything! Yeah baby!
David tossed Hook a weapon- sweet, huh? Aww...

I don't care what happens next as long as it happens ANYWHERE BUT NEVERLAND!
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I don't know if it was addressed earlier Lily, but the Heart of the Truest Believer had to be given willingly. That was the price, one that was nigh impossible to achieve due to the high reward. Also, Pan said he could just imagine things to be what he wanted (mentioning that Rumple never did really believe at the same time), thereby reminding his son that nothing was impossible for him in Neverland. Therefore, he simply mentally switched the boxes and didn't need to be close to him. That's magic baby!
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Man, that boy who played young Rumple: how good can a child actor be? He was amazing. And the kid playing Pan improved significantly. No more moving eyebrows!

... The reveal that Pan is Rumple’s dad: brilliant, horrible, shocker or saw it coming?
Didn't see that coming, was quite a shock. Loved it.

... Henry: too stupid to live?
What he did was stupid, but he's just a kid. The Charmings did their fair share of stupid things, and they're all grown up. If they got to live, why can't he?

... Um, if Regina and Emma can cause a lunar eclipse then WTF can’t they do? Like are they officially superheroes?

They have amazing chemistry.

... Snow wanting to restart on Neverland: callous?

She wants a new baby! How exactly would that work out in Neverland?

... Did your heart grow three sizes when David tossed Hook a weapon?

Nah.

... Are you secretly/not so secretly devastated that OUAT is taking a week-long hiatus?

I can handle it.
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Just one question. Somebody help me out here. Whatever happened to Emma being able to tell if somebody was lying? Why was Rumple the human lie detector in regards to Wendy instead of her?
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The evidence is piling up that Emma's lie-detector "superpower" is just self-delusion. She couldn't tell, for instance, that Greg was lying when she asked him in the hospital (BTW, has it ever struck anyone else as weird that Storybrooke has a one-cell sheriff's office but a multistorey hospital complete with ER?) if if he'd seen anything, and couldn't tell that he lied to her.
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Wow!! Good catch, I completely forgot about that! But I have no answer for you, sorry!
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With 373 comments below mine, I may have missed someone addressing this already, but the little boy actor (Wyatt Oleff) who played young Rumple was phenomenal! I recognized him from an episode of Animal Practice back when it was on, but I had no idea he could do such a good accent! I can't tell if he's faking the American accent in one show, or the Scottish accent in the other or both! I tried googling him and not much information shows up, not even a birthday. Thumbs-up my comment if you were as impressed as I was! (no, I am not a relative of his. :) )
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Sorry, but I still find Pan and the actor playing him quite annoying. This season is still better than the last though.
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This episode proves Henry is a dumb ass
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THIS!!
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He's been a dumb ass for two seasons but THIS one was just the icing on the cake the CONFIRMATION that Henry is a dumb ass! Who is only as smart as the plot needs him to be.
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... The reveal that Pan is Rumple’s dad: brilliant, horrible, shocker or saw it coming?
=> Saw it coming, but brilliant nevertheless!

... Henry: too stupid to live?
=> Definitely! Though I KNOW they'll find a way to save him ('cause "there's always a way, as Emma annoyingly said in THIS VERY EPISODE!)

... Um, if Regina and Emma can cause a lunar eclipse then WTF can’t they do? Like are they officially superheroes?
=> Yay! But Emma's not gonna use her powers because magic always comes with a price, blah blah blah... *sighs*

... Snow wanting to restart on Neverland: callous?
=> Yes and no. I'd actually like that, but it's quite insensitive to say it to Emma like that...

... Did your heart grow three sizes when David tossed Hook a weapon?
=> "In case your looks fail you" <3 <3 <3

... Are you secretly/not so secretly devastated that OUAT is taking a week-long hiatus?

=> Yep, but if it's what it takes for them to finally decide to kill Henry off... or better yet: to save him, but at Emma's life cost!!! Then I'll be fine!
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Lol I was actually quite surprised with Peter Pan being Rumple's dad. I didn't clue in which made it very interesting to watch. But really Henry just really.... That is all.
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I'm just hoping for a plot twist that doesn't involve adding people to Henry's family tree. Seriously, that shit ain't even a tree any more; it's a tentacled behemoth.
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Over the past season of OUAT i have been disappointed. I even stopped watching this season around episode 3 and then had to convinve mhself to get caught up again. But this episode made me feelgood about the show...finally.
The reveal of Peter Pan as Rumple's father made me forget all of the silly stuff the writers forced us to endure this season. It wss brilliant. I never saw it coming.
Let me just say that I loved the character of Rumple's father. His laugh was spot on and he portrayed everything we knew about the father to a tee.
Henry giving up his heart was the show at its usual worst. Are we really supposed to believe that Henry is that niave?
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I'm not really a fan of Robie Kay's acting, I think he has too much facial mimics! Anyway this episode was great and it's nice to see the bad guy win for a change, even though we know they're gonna find a way like they always do. It's refreshing! A few questions though: How come Pan and Rumple's father have different accents?? And why didn't anyone notice Rumple's disappearance?? I mean it would have easily saved Henry from doing something so stupid! Can't wait to see the rest and I'd like to see how Pan built his Lost Boys army :)
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Oh and Emma's powers are a little too conveniant if you ask me. We don't even know what her power is or where the hell does it come from and she basically never practiced but she's powerful enough to help Regina, THE Evil Queen, save the day TWICE??? Come on!
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Oh and Marilyn Manson casted as the Shadow's voice was brilliant!
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Question:
I'm still trying to figure out Rumple's whole, "If Pan dies, I die," thing.

I feel like, when it comes to the relationship between Pan and Rumple, we just saw the big reveal. But it doesn't explain why Rumple's continued existence is tied to Pans, and that's kind of a big deal.

So... it has yet to be revealed, or the writers just decided to drop that plot into a black hole?
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I always thought that was more of a "If I die I'm taking Pan with me" thing.
But if they go with them being tied in some way than it makes sense:

Henry is supposedly Rumple's" undoing" and if they save Henry by giving him his heart back somehow then the time for Pan would run out, meaning he would die (and presumable if you're right) that would also kill Rumple.

I kind of doubt that though but I'm interested in seeing just how Henry will be Rumple's undoing.
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But I don't know if it's true that they're tied together. But Rumple believes it. He's stated, "If Pan dies, I die." I believe those were his exact words, and he's repeated them more than once.

My question is, why? Why does Rumple believe that? Is he right in believing that? If so, how does that work?
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I'm not good at explaining things but I'll give it a go:

Some time ago, a gifted-and-yet-cursed ginger with misplaced body parts told Rumple that his actions on the battlefield would leave his son fatherless. Rumple interprets this to mean that by staying, he would die and then runs off home to be with his kin. We all remember how that turned out.

Some years later, he tracks down that seer again, slightly miffed that she was right and he unknowingly fulfilled the prophecy. Some improperly directed anger, threats and power-stealing later, the seer also reveals another doozy to the Dark One:

You will be reunited with your son and it will come in a most unexpected way. A boy . . . a young boy will lead you to your son, but beware Rumplestiltskin, that boy is more than he appears. He will need you. Do what you seek, but there will be a price, the boy will be your undoing.

Now Rumple, having been so brilliant at interpreting the last prophecy, immediately assumes that 'undoing' means 'death', and decides to get rid of him.

Oh, it's Henry/hey, Baelfire! /wacky Greg and Tamara/ooh, Neverland/mmm... Hook /Peter Pan later, and Rumple has decided to take control of this prophecy. Because, by knowing what is to come and choosing facing it head on (instead of running like last time), Rumple is now in control of his own fate.

Even if it means killing his own father. (Or as I like to refer to him - Scumbag Pete; the man who abandoned his own son because it would be 'weird' for a child to have a child, and yet has no qualms stealing his grandson (his child's child) to Neverland to be a Lost Boy. And who says he wants friends but in truth is really after lackeys and sycophants, because let's be honest here - friends would tell friends about pixie dust.)

Now that we've sorted out all that background info, I'll address the question:

"But I don't know if it's true that they're tied together. But Rumple believes it. He's stated, "If Pan dies, I die." I believe those were his exact words, and he's repeated them more than once.

My question is, why? Why does Rumple believe that? Is he right in believing that? If so, how does that work?"

They are tied together only because Rumple believes they are. It's a Harry-Voldemort thing. If Voldemort didn't pursue Harry so vigorously and let Death Eater kill him when they had the chance, he would still be around gloating in a noseless fashion. Rumple believes that, in order to save Henry (and 'undo' himself), he must defeat Pan, so he will pursue that option until it comes to pass (or doesn't). Self-fulfilling prophecies, they'll get you every time.


Personally I'm still waiting for my theory (that I've had since Manhattan aired) to be disproved; that Rumples' actions - in some tangentally Henry-related way - will ultimately result in him no longer being cursed as the Dark One. Because a) it seems obvious (just like Scumbag Pete being Rumple's father), and b) it's a fairy tale show, and it fits in with its skewed perception of happy endings.
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I know they are all worried about Henry but I find it a bit annoying that Neal doesn't seem to notice AT ALL that his father and pandora's box are both just gone (which pretty much tells what happened)
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This episode made up for all the previous episodes before it! I was LIKE WHAAA??!! I didn't see that coming!
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Can we kill Henry and keep Robbie Kay, please please please? I don´t know if I´ve ever seen better casting for a role.. (I mean this is EXACTLY how I imagined evil Peter Pan)
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Ms. Sparks,

If you were a writer on this show it would be soooo much better. I'm sure the world you would create would make a little more sense and be much more fun. You need to send Jane Espensen some ideas.

When is Emma just going to realize that MEN is her biggest problem and all she needs is some Regina to make her nights better?

Robbie Kay is KILLING it. He made that reveal work to perfection, in lesser hands it would have just skipped off the pavement but here it was the viewers jaw that needed to be lifted from it. Such a freaking awesome scene with Robert Carlyle. - Carlyle really brings out the BEST in ever actor he has scenes with - They better not kill off Pan.

With the exception of the creepy scene of Pan rowing into Skull Island while Henry had a big crazy smile on his face (just a little too child molestor rising feeling from Pan in that scene because Kay is acting like someone 30 years older than he is because he is that impressive) -heading to his doom - that scene was just a little TOO creepy - one of the best episodes I've seen.
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Loved the episode. I love how OUaT takes all the tales I know from my youth and twists and bends them. Peter Pan the father of Rumpelstiltskin? What a shocker but with the backstories filling in it all makes sense now. Now Hook is basically the good guy and Peter Pan definitely the bad guy.

About the critics: This is Neverland so Pan CAN get almost everything just by thinking about it, hence the thing with Pandora's box (Is it like the Pandorica? ;-). Watch the movie Hook and marvel at the scene where they are eating. I think it is safe to assume that he can't get a part of a living thing against it's will, so Henry had to give him his heart willingly.
And about the magic. Are you sure they moved stellar objects? One other way would be that since this is Neverland and NOT Earth the moon might just be a shiny thing someone hung into the sky. Or they could have "bended" the light from the sun, seems more likely with magic than repositioning the cosmos. Other than that Sleepy Hollow also recently suggested that witches could turn the moon into the sun so this isn't really that hard apparently ;-)

Regarding the outcome of the episode: The "conclusion" of the legend of Peter Pan kind of saddens me. Can't we keep Peter Pan and get rid of Henry? ^^
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Would it be evil of me to suggest that they just leave Henry? I mean Darwin has obviously spoken here, the boy IS too stupid to live. Emma and Regina should just tell everyone to take a flying leap and go live in a pretty castle together away from the imbeciles.
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The reveal that Pan was Rumples dad was awesome. Yet brings Pan down a bit. Like did Rumple set Pan on such a high pedestal as to how powerful he was just because he was afraid of him?
-Also I don't blame Henry at all,for once, he was willing to sacrifice himself for a lot. I don't think he doubted that he may die or just be stuck there. I mean Regina had a lot of living hearts just around. Remember our Sheriff. The thing about being the truest believer is that he'll believe anything. Maybe my standards are just ridiculously low for the kid though.
-We all expected that there would be an easy cure for charming and guess what, there was. Though I hope it has some lasting effects at least.
-Wait so what's gonna happen with Rumple. Will they find out a way to switch spots. So far right now he literally has no one in his corner in Neverland. And feel like they'd all just be like well we got him out the way early.
-Are we gonna end up with a scenario in the future where Regina is Pan and Emma is Henry. In that she tries to manipulate and seduce Emma so they can be the most powerful people every. I hope so.
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This episode was awesome! I literally gasped when Henry put his heart in Pan. Not expecting that at all. And the reveal that Pan is Rumple's dad was also a shocker, and also brilliant. I'm trying to understand why they didn't mention that minor detail a few episodes ago when Pan was talking to Rumple. Didn't Pan say something like "Would you forgive your father?" to Rumple. Wouldn't Pan have said, "Would you forgive me?" Any thoughts on this?

Also, I'm a little confused about the Shadow. Is it Peter Pan's shadow? Or is it just its own being? The shadow told Pan he can't live forever, and Pan says he is going to break the rules by bringing boys to Neverland in hopes that the truest believer is one of them. Why was the Shadow helping Pan then by stealing boys from their bedrooms? Or did Peter Pan rip off his own Shadow so that there are now two evil shadows roaming around Neverland.
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As shocking this ep was, it does raise questions like you mention. The shadow said that if he wanted to live here then it uses up magic as no one stays on Neverland, yet he brings the boys...so surely that will stupidly speed up the magic running out? The shadow is so subtly malevolent. What is it?! Who is it? OUAT might have another secret character turned into shadow there....maybe its a dark genie... :o

Regina spent a lifetime stealing peoples hearts and they still lived....

I can kinda feel like we may have an after school special family resolve where Rumple-Pan and Neal + by extension - Regina and Emma work out their mamma dramas. Where is Jimminy when you need him?!
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Ok, so after seeing the episode, i was just having a thought....

Pan abandoned Rumple
Rumple abandoned Bealfire
Bealfire/Neal abandoned Emma and his unborn child, he did not know about...
Charming and Snow abandoned Emma
Emma abandoned Henry
So if Henry ever has kids, how big is the chance that he will also abandon his child?

As for the episode, i really liked it. I thought Pan would turn out to be Rumple childhood friend or something.
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Henry is screwed.
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That was a really interesting connection you made on abandonment and OUAT :)
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Parental abandonment is practically the underlying theme of OUaT by now.
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I have to say, I'd heard some spoilers and was worried about this episode going into it, but I was very impressed with the well-done and nuanced portrayal of Rumple's father.
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Everyone's harping about how Henry's a moron, but c'mon, the kid's smitten. Wendy's a cutie and he clearly let his other head do the thinking.
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I just had a strange thought, and just wanted to get it out there before returning to bed:

What if, instead of being incredibly stupid, Henry was actually being incredibly smart? We know that he sometimes sneaks after people when he's told not to... what if he didn't stay put when Pan told him to, but rather followed, and saw the whole switcheroo Pan played with Rumple? What if it gave him an idea?

After all, Henry has the heart of the truest believer. And all you need is to believe. So, in Neverland, Henry is god. He can have anything, do anything.

I do have trouble believing that Henry could just sit by and watch Rumple get swallowed up by a box... but maybe he was starting to realize the power he has in Neverland. Maybe he figured he would just be able to wish Rumple back out of the box when it was over.

Anyway... this was just a random thought I had while trying to get to sleep. Back to your regularly-scheduled programming. :)
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how does him dying fit in?
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(stupid laptop. I had this all typed out, and then my palm touched the touchpad and I went back a page. Have to type it all again.)

I don't know, actually. Like I said, it was just a random thought. :) But if I were to move forward with it, I can guess at a few things that might work:

Maybe Henry looked at his family, and wholeheartedly believed that they would find a way to fix it, and knew that, because this is Neverland, and he is the truest believer, then because he believes it, it must come true?

Or maybe Henry faked the dying? Believed he held a heart, and then put the fake heart in Pan?

Or maybe Henry just instinctively gets Neverland, in a way that Pan doesn't? I definitely got the impression in the flashbacks that, while Pan (whatever his real name is) loves what Neverland does for him, he doesn't really get it, and he certainly doesn't respect it. And Henry, unlike Pan, is actually a child... somebody who belongs there. Plus, he's the truest believer. Plus, he spent all those miserable years before he found Emma... perhaps visited Neverland in his dreams? I think it's a very real possibility that Henry understands Neverland better than Pan does, and therefore knows something Pan doesn't.

I don't know... it just seemed like there were so many things that don't make sense. In particular, he knew that his family was there "to rescue" him, and he was suspicious enough of Pan to follow Rufus (really obviously, but that's neither here nor there)... but he wasn't suspicious enough to distrust Pan's version of the story when Emma, Regina, and Neal were ALL telling him he should? That just doesn't make sense to me, unless Henry has a plan, or at least an instinctive understanding that this is the right thing to do.

Plus, I'd been wanting to post my "In Neverland, Henry is god" theory for a while. :)
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First of all, seeing as it's my first time posting a comment for OUAT, I just want to say hi Lily and I love your reviews. I've been reading them since midway into season 2 and often find myself looking forward to them and their hilarity more than the episodes themselves. I finally decided to join in on the conversation :)

Now on to business: I agree that Robbie Kay has done a wonderful job in his role. I've liked him since his introduction, but now knowing Pan's background and seeing his performances in hindsight, I respect him even more. Kudos to Kay!

Next, I called it (so proud XD), but I still enjoyed the reveal of Pan being Rumple's dad. Though - man - what a messed up family. And family tree. More of a spiderweb than a tree, really.

Also, I want to like the Charmings so badly, but the writing for them has been unbearably cheesy and almost demeaning. David's lines have gotten a bit stronger as of late because of his interaction with Hook, but I feel as though Snow's have been suffering. I'm disappointed in her character development this season - I was hoping Neverland would bring out a bit more of the warrior in her than it has.

Last thing: I love this show, but the writing, I swear, it is so volatile. And the characters' traits change for the convenience of the plot fairly often, as seen with Henry in this ep. I don't care if he has a hero complex or if he is still a kid, he was clearly established as insightful and selectively manipulative in the past. I found his decision very hard to swallow. As in, spaghetti-noodle-stuck-in-your-throat hard to swallow.
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Henry was so fucking stupid I literally don't give a crap whether he lives or not and am actually hoping he doesn't. Honest to God, if you are that stupid you are endangering others just by being alive. What a moron. You are really going to trust a stranger who kidnapped you over your ENTIRE family? I can't even with him.
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Emma thinks being the same age as her parents is bad? Poor Rumple has to live with the fact that his father is 20+ years younger than him
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Hahahaah and can play the pipes of pan like a badass motherfather
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Let's see Pan... first abandon your son so that you can be forever young and fly and whatnot... then you start kidnapping other little boys to come hang out (creep)... then you imprison the only girl to step foot on your island in centuries for god knows how long... then you kidnap your great grandson... so you can kill him and live forever... but before that you imprison your son in a magic box because... well why not he should have stayed abandoned.... dude. Pan's a bit of a d*#k...
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This mostly just makes me think, what happens to the boys hormones. lol. The Peter Pan movie from 2003 and Hook put the boys at a much younger level so it's not odd that he was just only want invite guys to come hangout as you'd still think theyre in that "no girls allowed" stage. But all the lost boys seem to be teenagers which does beg the question what could they all be doing.
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After this breakdown he might also be a bit of a pedophile?!?!?! Geez all I knew about peter pan before OUAT was that I loved the disneyland ride (you can FLY you CAN fly you can FLY), now its the creepiest story in the world and that is NOT a complaint.
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Lots o lesbian undertones this episode, as I like my OUAT. Two spinning ladies who live together. Ok. I'm really sad everyone's going home, because the Neverland storyline is so much more focused and character development-y than the shitstorm of season 2, so I reeeeeeaaalllllyyyy don't want them to go back to Storybrooke. LOVED your thing about Neal. Everything you said was spot on. Goddamn I hate the Charmings though...
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I am tired of hearing that theme in regards to this show. In comparison to the rest of the population, being gay, lesbian, trans is a small percentage. What is it with those of you who look for this kind of thing everywhere. For some reason, there seems to be a group that wants more, more, more lesbians and gays. If that were to come true our population would naturally decline. I'm especially annoyed with the Emma Regina lesbian thing. They are two women competing for the same little boy, both his mothers, they argue and disagree which is what people often do in those situations. Why is making heterosexual people lesbian so important to some of you?
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I don't actually think that they're together. They both have love interests that are well-written and satisfactory. I do like seeing them interact with each other and I totally get why you're annoyed. However, my comment was referencing the spinsters, not Emma and Regina only. Furthermore, if you really think that 12% of the characters on TV are LGBT, you are sorely mistaken. That is the actual percentage, and we are sorely underrepresented. Every show on TV has at least ten characters, and you cannot honestly believe that one of them is LGBT consistently. If you want TV to be a bunch of blonde, white, heterosexual, able-bodied, skinny white people, I think you need to rethink how the world actually is.
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"If you want TV to be a bunch of blonde, white, heterosexual, able-bodied, skinny white people, I think you need to rethink how the world actually is." I don't and I didn't say that. My comment wasn't remotely close to saying that and that is definitely not how I feel.
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Look, I get where you're coming from, but you really don't have to pay attention to shippers. I have seen literally every combination of characters on this show together, especially with Emma and Regina. People want them to be with every other character on the show, not just each other, and it's up to them to feel whatever they want to feel. It doesn't affect you, so keep shippin Regina/Robin Hood or Emma/Neal or Single!Emma or whatever...We don't make hetero people gay, we just feel things about a fictional world and entertain ourselves by writing and thinking about, like the writers do, but we don't have power.
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Also, people have the right to ship whatever they want. If Mulan was gay just like all us crazy shippers predicted, it's ok to look further into the storyline for what you believe. My comment was more about the review than my lesbian "dreams", so I think that you taking offense to my views on a TV show on the basis of my ships is a little ridiculous. Lily frequently comments on the Swan Queen ship because it is so popular and makes so much sense. People don't want to make heterosexual people lesbian, they hope that they will be because that's what they see and it makes a great sweeps week reveal, honestly.
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I'm sorry that I chose your post to vent a bit about my feelings regarding this issue. I had seen some other posts in the OUAT comments and at the time didn't feel like responding, then when I read yours I decided to say something. If I'm going to be annoyed by this, your post was actually the least annoying if all those I read. You are correct, people have a right to state their views and dream of relationships even if some of them don't make sense, if that's a good way to put it.
Interesting that 12% of the population is LGBT, I will need to check into that a bit myself.
My point is, I just don't get this whole concept of trying to create a gay relationship between heterosexual characters in a tv show. I understand the gay community wanting to be represented, but I don't get all this "shipping" pairing up two men or two women that have been written as hetero. Sometimes I feel like it is really contrived and doesn't do the storyline any service other than to satisfy a small group that wants to see more LGBT characters.
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Word up!
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"he had to give his son to a pair of elderly spinning women" Don't you mean old spinsters? Besides, they weren't even married... Curiously that made me check the origin of the word.
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great review
The reveal that Pan is Rumple’s dad: brilliant...it was pieced together well...
Henry is naive...remember he is pure true love...and love is blind...
Regina and Emma are great together...
Snow is thinking with her ovaries...
Did your heart grow three sizes when David tossed Hook a weapon...no...why would you toss a man that has a hook for a hand a weapon??

I look forward for the next episode...


pan couldn't take henry's heart. henry had to give it to him...besides....he is pretty much luke skywalker to emmas anakin skywalker...henry is probably potentially pretty powerful magic wise....
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Great, great review. Loved the commentary on Neal. So insightful regarding Peter Pan and the writers' work there. And I totally agree on the younger characters' casting; most particularly with Pan.
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Completely agree about the whole Pan storyline - fantastic, relateable, relevant, and definitely not boring. :)

Disagree about the interpretation that Bae traded Wendy's freedom for his own... the entire premise doesn't make nearly as much sense as the idea that Pan just captured the Darlings during a failed rescue mission that the Darlings themselves came up with, while Bae himself had already managed to escape. Why else would Neal not understand how Wendy came to be there, in a cage?

For the questions:
... The reveal that Pan is Rumple’s dad: brilliant, horrible, shocker or saw it coming?
Neither. It was a surprise, but not a shock. very nicely done, on their parts. :)

... Henry: too stupid to live?
In his defense, he didn't have access to most of the knowledge about Pan's villainy that the others had. Frankly, I was surprised he even knew to be suspicious at all about Pan... after all, Pan's hardly a villain in the fairy tales, and Henry has always taken the fairy tales at face value.
I do think that, assuming that Wendy told them of her role in convincing Henry to go, that they could have argued against it with a very simple argument: "Magic isn't in any danger, Henry. Pan is. He made Wendy pretend to be sick, but she's not. If you do this, you'll just be saving the life of the villain, not saving magic."

... Um, if Regina and Emma can cause a lunar eclipse then WTF can’t they do? Like are they officially superheroes?
Better question: did they really have to cause a lunar eclipse (make the planet move between the sun and the moon) to blot out the light from the moon? Like, wasn't there a simpler way to blot out the moonlight? Like magic up a really big tent, or something? I don't know, that just seemed like overkill to me. :)

... Snow wanting to restart on Neverland: callous?
Mm... I'll go with, "yes."

... Did your heart grow three sizes when David tossed Hook a weapon?
Honestly, I barely noticed, except to chuckle at David's line.

... Are you secretly/not so secretly devastated that OUAT is taking a week-long hiatus?

Devastated, definitely.

Now, my own question: did anybody else notice Rumple's dad had a very Winnie-the-Pooh-like habit, of going, "Think, think, think," and tapping his forehead? It seemed to clearly be an allusion to Pooh's character. Not sure why, except just for the sake of referencing a Disney movie that they probably won't otherwise reference? It certainly isn't because of his character... can't think of two people more unalike than Rumple's dad, and Winnie the Pooh. Actually, it kind of hurt me to see the cute behavior being carried out by a guy like that.
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Wendy did say she traded herself for Bae- presumably after Bae had left? Look, we already put more thought into it than any of the writers did, I promise you. Suffice to say it did not make sense.
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Wait, I'm confused....when did Wendy agree to be in a cage to help Neal escape? I thought she just came after him, to save him (after he'd sacrificed himself for her and her brothers) and then was somehow captured? That was what I got from the scene, am I missing something? Or are we just trying to find ways to take more easy pot shots at Neal's character? Emma is one thing, Wendy is another...

The episode was, like I find to be the case with most Rumple-centric episodes, blah. Nothing really stood-out other than Robbie Kay being A+ and the actor playing Rumple's dad being horrible, and possibly Irish? I don't know...I mean, he was better than Whale's dad...but ANYONE is better than Whale's dad.
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I think that's what happened too.

Specifically, Pan kidnapped Bae from Wendy's home. Wendy, John, and Michael hatched a rescue plan. They carried out the rescue plan while, meanwhile, Bae was escaping on his own. There was no "trade" - Pan captured the Darlings, who were trying to rescue Bae. But Pan didn't even have Bae at the time... he just kept the Darlings because, to his mind, he'd captured them fair and square, and could do what he liked with them.
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“Just remember that that's your level of participation in parenting Henry—donating your sea man services.” Laughed so hard I almost fell off my chair XDD Best episode this season so far, they tied up everything together beautifully.
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I love the show, but I was very disappointed with this episode and
I was not surprised at all that Peter Pan was Rump's father. To be honesty, I have been let down by the last 2 seasons because the show is no longer about fantasies, it is about the drama that happens in our lives. People in the real world fight about who will have the rights of their children. The show has become a soap opera and I would like to just say good luck trying to have another season. The whole Peter Pan story has gone on longer than enough. The writers should either "fix" it or just give up. Sorry but the truth hurts.
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Pan being Rumple's dad: Brilliant! I didn't see it coming till good ol' Daddy-O started rambling about Neverland at the beginning of the episode. Then I figured he must be, but how he became Pan was a surprise. Trading in his son for youth! Ouch.
On that note, is it just me, or is every single parent on this show a horrible excuse for a parent? Pan, Rumple and Cora are the standouts, but also Snow abandoning her child AGAIN so she can stay with her husband and start her perfect little family ('cause Emma is basically a lost cause as far at that goes), Milah running off and leaving her kid, Regina being manipulative and all gaslight-y, Emma being an Indian giver and forcing her kid into a nasty custody battle, David not really taking any particular interest in Emma, Neal being Neal.... Really, this show's supposed to be about the power of family, but it seems to me the only family "power" displayed is the power your family has to ruin your life.

Oh my God, it's so true about Neal having a fall girl in every dimension. That never even occurred to me. What is with this fatal charm this guy seems to have over the ladies? I honestly liked him in season two, but with each episode of season three, he becomes more and more useless.

You are so right on about Robbie Kay. His Peter Pan is by far the best thing about this season. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE keep Henry dead and Peter around! I know they won't, but my God this show (which I love) would be 1000x better without Henry. He is possibly the single stupidest child character in television history, and while Jared Gilmore can't act his way out a paper bag, honestly, the way Henry is written, not even Laurence Olivier could have saved him.

Grrr stupid whatever is on next Sunday that's making OUAT take a week off!
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Well the truth is it would be stupid for Snow to leave her husmand/potencial new baby because of adult daughter who will soon has her own family and doesn´t need mother too much.
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I felt that this episode was very well done. I did not see the big reveal of Peter Pan being Rumple's father until I saw them in Neverland.

Henry's mental acuity has been dropping this entire season and in this episode he hit rock bottom. How he thought someone who would kidnap him from his family and keep him from them, would have the best interest of everyone at heart, is amazing.

Also where was Pan's heart? He just put Henry's in, but didn't take his own out .

There is just one word to describe Regina and Emma: AWESOME.

Snow is an enigma to me at times. She wants her daughter, but not at the cost of her husband. I have always thought that for all that she says that Emma was her top priority, Charming and her idea of what a perfect family is what she loves the most.

David and Hook becoming friends have been a good addition to the plot.

My heart dropped a little when I saw that the next episode would not be shown until Dec. 1st. My Sunday night will not be as entertaining as usual.
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