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Inconsistencies throughout season 1

  • Avatar of danpianoman

    danpianoman

    [1]May 17, 2012
    • member since: 05/14/12
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    Spoiler Warning - Only Read the following if you watched all of Season 1:


    What are your thoughts? Let me know if any of these are addressed in the show in a scene. Can you think of others?



    1) Who is the fairest of them all?:
    In the Pilot - Snow says to Charming:
    "She poisoned an apple because she thought I was prettier than her. You have no idea what she's capable of"


    The story didn't pan out that way, and did Snow ever have a reason to actually think this in Once Upon a Time? I hope the writers come up with a way explain this (perhaps Snow keeping the truth from Charming?)


    Realizing Snow's statement was a nod to the other versions of the story, my question is whether her statement can fit in Once Upon A Time's world without being a contradiction of the script.


    2) Hearts snatched out in fairy tale land - is there any magical law that governs this? How many ways can you snatch out a heart? (hmmm ... Reese's Hearts :-p) :
    a) Regina's Dad drops down dead.
    b) Regina's fiancee doesn't die until the heart is crushed, but is incapacititated as its pulled out.
    c) Huntsman retains free will and is not incapacitated, and Emma can 'feel' Graham's heart in Storybrooke.
    d) Did Regina wish to snatch out Snow White's heart and keep her alive or kill her? How are we to know?

    3) Sleeping Curse(s):
    a) How many are there? If Malificent stole one, is this the one from Sleeping Beauty that puts everyone to sleep, or is this the apple that the ginger bread house witch had?
    b) Did Snow White need to be told the disclaimer for the apple to work, or was that just the Queen enjoying the torture?
    After all, Emma didn't get a disclaimer, and Regina expected it to work without a disclaimer.


    4) Talking Animals:


    In the Pilot: Prince Charming says to his guards: "I've sent my men into the forest. The Animals are abuzz with the queen's plan."
    This seems to be a reference to Disney fairy tales, but we have yet to see a talking animal in this series. Or am I mistaken?


    5) If the Genie's Lamp could grant wishes after the Genie was freed, then could Regina take control of the lamp afterward, or would it need a new genie? Does anyone remember if it disappeared after the 3rd wish? How does a lamp work without a genie?


    6) If Rumple only regained his memories when he heard Emma's name name at Granny's upon her first visit (as the Creators asserted in an interview), then did he unwittingly arrange Henry's adoption without any memories of FTW?


    7) Do we believe that Emma actually had a super power of being able to detect lies, but was in denial with Sydney, moreover choosing not to use it in her varous investigations, as well as every time Regina tricked her? Or did she make the whole thing up?

    If it was Emma's 28th Birthday that Henry showed up, and she gave him up for adoption 10 years prior, it is safe to assume she was 17 when he was conceived, yes? I feel like I've seen it discussed that she was 18. Nothing wrong with being 17, but depending on the state, wonder if Henry was illegally conceived :-p Massachusetts' laws are ambiguous at quick glance. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_co ... sachusetts . She'd be fine in Maine however :-p Did the writers intend for her to conceive at 17, which seems controversial for a family show? I personally have no ethical problem with conception at any age, if it's an ethical conception to begin with, but just wondering.

    9) Rumple is a perspicacious guy, so must we assume he was in denial about Belle not loving him, and not using his intellect, because since she was turning him back into a man and erasing the 'dark one', their love must have been true and mutual, right? I don't understand why such a smart character who sees everything coming dealing with magic would not realize that she couldn't be 'tricking' him because if her love was disingenuous, the kiss would never break his 'curse' of being the dark one. So is this an inconsistent character trait, or is it that when it comes to love, Rumple always gets it wrong, and isn't too smart?


    10) Did Henry ever mention in the show that nobody ages?
    Whether or not he did, this is what is understood, correct?
    This would of course been most obvious to him with his classmates, and the kids younger than him that he eventually out-grew. (The 7 year olds that were older than him when he was 5 became younger than him when he was 10).
    This presents a problem for Regina - are we to assume the following: Henry was aware no one aged, Regina was aware he was aware, his memories were always left intact, and that the only reason he hasn't tried to escape from her sooner is his dependance on adults, as well as an ignorance of reality - having grown up in a town where no one grows up but him? (Where's Tink? :-p)
    Is it just me, or has the 'no one grows up' part of the script not really been addressed as it should have been?
    Shouldn't have Henry blatantly stated: there were kids who were older than me who are now younger than me?
    Or would he realize this would make him look too crazy ...
    Or perhaps his memory has been manipulated as well ...

    11) Did anyone else get as confused as I did - until Graham was killed - about Mayor Regina's knowledge of the curse and FTL? Although tons of people on online forums insist that of course she remembered everything because it was her curse, I wasn't so sure until she finally showed viewers she knew by going into the chamber beneath her father's tomb. I got a very strong sense of purposeful ambiguity, like in Wizard of Oz (was it real or just a dream?) or stories where there's never concrete proof something wasn't just someone's imagination.

    And I loved that feeling of ambiguity, as one could until that episode always rationalize why the Mayor was upset / ruthless without needing to concede that she remembered her former identity. I felt that the writers were toying wish us, and it was fun!

    What I didn't appreciate was that the narrator of the opening sequence of the show for the first several episodes said "only one person knows, and only one can stop her". I felt like he spoiled one of the most dramatic secrets kept from viewers until the Graham crushed-heart episode. [and furthermore, more than one person knew ... it looks like 4-5 in Storybrooke actually knew: Regina, Henry, Gold (kept it a secret at first), August (kept it a secret at first), and possibly Jefferson. So the narrator also fed false information]
    Is anyone with me on this? Imagine the narrator never said that. Was there anything in the script that made it obvious that Mayor Regina knew she was the queen before we finally see her use magic, crushing Graham's heart? I loved that episode so much because until then, she didn't necessarily seem evil. Do you agree that purposely keeping it ambiguous would have been effective?


    Was I just foolishly mis-remembering the scene when she asserted to Rumple he wouldn't remember, and my vague memory generalized that she wouldn't remember either? Because I get the feeling that if we showed Once Upon a Time to newcomers and muted the opening narrater, that people would be asking: "does she know?" each and every eipsode, until that heart-crushing episode.


    Until that epsisode, the show seemed to take great lengths to never let us see Regina, even alone, reveal that she 'knew' anything about Fairy Tale Land.
    I chose to ignore the narrator until that episode, and considered it a poor editing choice.



    What's your take?

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  • Avatar of danpianoman

    danpianoman

    [2]May 17, 2012
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    12) And what of Charming's mother? Is she in danger because he broke off his engagement? Was this addressed in the show? Did he suddenly forget about her when falling in love with Snow?

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  • Avatar of SpartXen

    SpartXen

    [3]May 18, 2012
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    Okay, OMG, lemme give some of these a shot:
    1) I agree, this needs to be addressed, and I'm gonna be really annoyed if it's just a plot hole, especially after the tied Pinocchio's story into the events of the pilot so well. I have to say, too, Snow White said she ruined the EQ's life (when she first met Charming, believe it was 'Snow Falls'). But at the point she didn't know about Daniel's death, only that he ran away, and Regina didn't even admit she was upset about losing him. So what did Snow White think was the EQ's motive?
    2) I've also notice that there appears to be two 'versions' of a heart in the show: one that looks like an actual anatomical heart, and one that is bright red and glowing (ie. magical heart). Regina's dad's heart was of the anatomical variety, and he died instantly from that. But it would seem the glowing red ones can be removed without killing the victim (btw I think we were supposed to see that Cora crushed Daniel's heart instantly, so he COULD have lived after she removed his hear but she crushed it so fast he died before he hit the ground. I hope this isn't just an error in the prop department and there is some reason for the different kinds of hearts.
    3) Hasn't really been addressed fully on the show, and not much evidence to go on. Wait and see. And Regina wasn't giving a 'disclaimer', she was just telling Snow what she was in for because...well, she's the Evil Queen o.O
    4) Interesting...wait and see, I suppose.
    5) Mr. Gold has the lamp, but presumably it no longer works. I think the wish Sidney used was the last one the lamp had. I doubt we'll get any more info about lamp lore on the show.
    6) Again, big question mark, but I'm inclined to believe the creators and trust they have an intriguing, plot-twisty story behind this.
    7) I think her power only works when she believes in it. Lotta self doubt going on when she was dealing with Sidney, and I think that's what left her powers on the fritz. Although Regina did say magic is unpredictable in our world, so who knows, maybe Emma's superpower just can't function 100% in SB
    8 ) Wouldn't be any more ethical if she was 18, just cause it's legal o.O
    9) Rumple turned away from Belle's love because he needed to hold onto his powers to find his son. In 'The Return' he tells the blue fairy he will love nothing else until he finds his son. He couldn't give up his powers, but he did love Belle.
    10) HoroKits did an interview and addressed this question (believe it was their interview here with Lily Sparks). Henry WAS affected by the curse. His memories were hazy until he found the book, and that was only a few months before he found Emma, not enough time to realize the whole aging issue. I'm not sure if HENRY ever says no one ages, but at one point Emma says 'Frozen in time, NOT AGING' when asking Henry to clarify his theory. Episode 2 I think, after Henry throws away the apple Emma was about to eat.
    11) Yeah, they probably should have left it out of the promo that she did know, but I think the moment we knew FOR SURE was when Dr. Whale called her to say David grabbed MM's hand while he was in a coma. She squeezed that phone WAY too tight for someone who supposedly doesn't remember FTL. Why would she care about David and MM being together if what she told Emma was true? For me that was the tell-tale moment. There was also her intense reaction when the clock started moving again - she was pretty shocked and pissed about that. Why would a clock bother her if she didn't remember that time was supposed to be frozen? And of course the biggest clue of all - her name is still Regina, the only character in SB (until we met Jefferson) who kept her original FTL name. Oh, and in 'That Still Small Voice', she dropped the shard of Snow White's coffin down the mine shaft. That was before Graham's death, wasn't it? Another clue that she remembered. So yeah, we definitely knew LONG before she killed Graham that she remembered.
    12) Good question, lol. I have a funny feeling we're going to see some resolution there eventually. Josh Dallas mentioned in an interview that we're going to find out Prince Charming's real name at some point (his name before he became Prince James), so we'll probably get some more history on him.
    WHEW, that was long!
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  • Avatar of angeleys151

    angeleys151

    [4]May 19, 2012
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    I agree so far that every point is either a puzzle piece that hasn't fit in yet, or a plot hole, except about Regina's memory. I remember thinking the moment Mr. Gold said "please" and she gave in that they both remembered. After I started to think the "please" was a coincidence on his part but was still convinced she remembered. That was in episode 2 I think.



    The Prince James thing has bothered me since we found out he wasn't really James. I've always wondered if he ever told Snow, or if she still thinks that's his name.

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  • Avatar of Dracomom

    Dracomom

    [5]May 19, 2012
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    To start at the bottom and work up- "James" will always be Charming to Snow, whatever his birth name.


    Rumplestiltskin had the opportunity to think through his relationship with Belle after the kiss- I think he was wearing a slightly different outfit when he told her to leave (indication of time passing or at least a cold shower.) I agree that he chose not to give up his power before finding Bae. Plus, he's had plenty of time since to consider!


    Regina's dad was probably dead before heart removal, which may account for the different appearance. Rumplestiltskin said to her "You know what you love- now go kill it!", and I believe that the taking of a loved one's life was key to enacting the Curse.


    Not touching the aging question, except to say that Henry had a better chance of knowing who was aging than anyone else. My recollection is that he'd had the Book for "a month" before going to Boston; not sure which episode that was in. Assuming he arrived on Emma's birthday- what day was it? I thought at first it was October, but no mention of Halloween/Thanksgiving/Christmas/New Year. So then I thought her birthday might have been in January (fits with Valentine's Day ep 6 weeks later) Any thoughts?


    The legal, ethical, and moral issues surrounding Henry's conception are definitely plot points to explore in future seasons. Emma was in jail in Tallahasee (I think) when he was born- so those laws may be applicable. Also: what did Emma do to end up behind bars? I can imagine about 8 different scenarios, but the writers haven't told us yet.


    We didn't know the EQ was named Regina until the episode with the Genie. Before that, everybody just said "The Queen". And the opening narration changed several times- I'm not sure the pilot said who knew.


    The jewels on the lamp changed color- maybe because the Genie was freed. Like a "vacancy" sign? I doubt the lamp would work in Storybrook anyway. Wasn't Mr Gold polishing the lamp in that episode?


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  • Avatar of Kitanishi

    Kitanishi

    [6]May 25, 2012
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    danpianoman wrote:

    1) Who is the fairest of them all?:
    In the Pilot - Snow says to Charming:
    "She poisoned an apple because she thought I was prettier than her. You have no idea what she's capable of"


    The story didn't pan out that way, and did Snow ever have a reason to actually think this in Once Upon a Time? I hope the writers come up with a way explain this (perhaps Snow keeping the truth from Charming?)


    Realizing Snow's statement was a nod to the other versions of the story, my question is whether her statement can fit in Once Upon A Time's world without being a contradiction of the script.


    WE do not know that Charming even knows the exact reasons for why Regina hates Snow. There's also a couple of years of timeskip between the event so Snow for some reason might want to lie about that.
    danpianoman wrote:

    2) Hearts snatched out in fairy tale land - is there any magical law that governs this? How many ways can you snatch out a heart? (hmmm ... Reese's Hearts :-p) :
    a) Regina's Dad drops down dead.
    b) Regina's fiancee doesn't die until the heart is crushed, but is incapacititated as its pulled out.
    c) Huntsman retains free will and is not incapacitated, and Emma can 'feel' Graham's heart in Storybrooke.
    d) Did Regina wish to snatch out Snow White's heart and keep her alive or kill her? How are we to know?



    Magic. Dad just got heart taken out normally. Huntsman and Daniel magically. Considering she sent a huntsman to kill snow, its quite clear she just wanted proof of her death.

    danpianoman wrote:
    3) Sleeping Curse(s):
    a) How many are there? If Malificent stole one, is this the one from Sleeping Beauty that puts everyone to sleep, or is this the apple that the ginger bread house witch had?
    b) Did Snow White need to be told the disclaimer for the apple to work, or was that just the Queen enjoying the torture?
    After all, Emma didn't get a disclaimer, and Regina expected it to work without a disclaimer.


    It was both. She merged an apple and the sleeping curse. How remains to be seen in flashback.Speech was Regina's version of justice. She wanted to make Snow know why Snow is dying.
    danpianoman wrote:

    4) Talking Animals:


    In the Pilot: Prince Charming says to his guards: "I've sent my men into the forest. The Animals are abuzz with the queen's plan."
    This seems to be a reference to Disney fairy tales, but we have yet to see a talking animal in this series. Or am I mistaken?



    Jimminy Cricket, for one, fits the description. There might be other cases like that.
    danpianoman wrote:

    5) If the Genie's Lamp could grant wishes after the Genie was freed, then could Regina take control of the lamp afterward, or would it need a new genie? Does anyone remember if it disappeared after the 3rd wish? How does a lamp work without a genie?



    The lamp is in Gold's shop. And most likely is tied to the very specific genie. Most likely will be used in some way latter by Gold.

    danpianoman wrote:

    6) If Rumple only regained his memories when he heard Emma's name name at Granny's upon her first visit (as the Creators asserted in an interview), then did he unwittingly arrange Henry's adoption without any memories of FTW?


    For one unless its stated in the show, I honestly do not believe that to be the case.

    Otherwise he might have placed some sort of suggestion to himself as a preparation. He did get the whole shop with all the things from his deals after all and dagger. Most likely Rumple set some sort of suggestion to himself to do those stuff even if that "Gold" was unaware of who he is.
    danpianoman wrote:

    7) Do we believe that Emma actually had a super power of being able to detect lies, but was in denial with Sydney, moreover choosing not to use it in her varous investigations, as well as every time Regina tricked her? Or did she make the whole thing up?


    Emma's magic works when she believes.
    She could see the Wolf, yet she could not see August's leg. When she believes in herself her power works. The emma of last 10 episodes of so was more and more in denial over the curse with every bit of proof she got.
    danpianoman wrote:
    If it was Emma's 28th Birthday that Henry showed up, and she gave him up for adoption 10 years prior, it is safe to assume she was 17 when he was conceived, yes? I feel like I've seen it discussed that she was 18. Nothing wrong with being 17, but depending on the state, wonder if Henry was illegally conceived :-p Massachusetts' laws are ambiguous at quick glance. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_co ... sachusetts . She'd be fine in Maine however :-p Did the writers intend for her to conceive at 17, which seems controversial for a family show? I personally have no ethical problem with conception at any age, if it's an ethical conception to begin with, but just wondering.


    That was addressed in the show. Emma had a romantic relationship with an older married man, during the course of which she ended up in jail for some reason. She strongly believes that Henry's father is a VERY bad man. Favorite fan theory is that its baelfire.
    danpianoman wrote:


    9) Rumple is a perspicacious guy, so must we assume he was in denial about Belle not loving him, and not using his intellect, because since she was turning him back into a man and erasing the 'dark one', their love must have been true and mutual, right? I don't understand why such a smart character who sees everything coming dealing with magic would not realize that she couldn't be 'tricking' him because if her love was disingenuous, the kiss would never break his 'curse' of being the dark one. So is this an inconsistent character trait, or is it that when it comes to love, Rumple always gets it wrong, and isn't too smart?



    Rumple can see future. Just not his own. Belle and Baelfire are part of his own future.
    danpianoman wrote:

    [

    10) Did Henry ever mention in the show that nobody ages?
    Whether or not he did, this is what is understood, correct?
    This would of course been most obvious to him with his classmates, and the kids younger than him that he eventually out-grew. (The 7 year olds that were older than him when he was 5 became younger than him when he was


    Nobody AGED till Emma's appearance restarted the clock. Henry said in pilot that entire town was in sort of haze to NOT realize it or the facts that their backstories do not extend past just being in storybrooke, or the fact that no one wanted to leave the town. When clock started moving, everything started to age and progress.
    danpianoman wrote:
    10).
    This presents a problem for Regina - are we to assume the following: Henry was aware no one aged, Regina was aware he was aware, his memories were always left intact, and that the only reason he hasn't tried to escape from her sooner is his dependance on adults, as well as an ignorance of reality - having grown up in a town where no one grows up but him? (Where's Tink? :-p)
    Is it just me, or has the 'no one grows up' part of the script not really been addressed as it should have been?
    Shouldn't have Henry blatantly stated: there were kids who were older than me who are now younger than me?
    Or would he realize this would make him look too crazy ...
    Or perhaps his memory has been manipulated as well ...

    Already addressed in the pilot.
    danpianoman wrote:
    11) Did anyone else get as confused as I did - until Graham was killed - about Mayor Regina's knowledge of the curse and FTL? Although tons of people on online forums insist that of course she remembered everything because it was her curse, I wasn't so sure until she finally showed viewers she knew by going into the chamber beneath her father's tomb. I got a very strong sense of purposeful ambiguity, like in Wizard of Oz (was it real or just a dream?) or stories where there's never concrete proof something wasn't just someone's imagination.

    And I loved that feeling of ambiguity, as one could until that episode always rationalize why the Mayor was upset / ruthless without needing to concede that she remembered her former identity. I felt that the writers were toying wish us, and it was fun!

    What I didn't appreciate was that the narrator of the opening sequence of the show for the first several episodes said "only one person knows, and only one can stop her". I felt like he spoiled one of the most dramatic secrets kept from viewers until the Graham crushed-heart episode. [and furthermore, more than one person knew ... it looks like 4-5 in Storybrooke actually knew: Regina, Henry, Gold (kept it a secret at first), August (kept it a secret at first), and possibly Jefferson. So the narrator also fed false information]
    Is anyone with me on this? Imagine the narrator never said that. Was there anything in the script that made it obvious that Mayor Regina knew she was the queen before we finally see her use magic, crushing Graham's heart? I loved that episode so much because until then, she didn't necessarily seem evil. Do you agree that purposely keeping it ambiguous would have been effective?


    Was I just foolishly mis-remembering the scene when she asserted to Rumple he wouldn't remember, and my vague memory generalized that she wouldn't remember either? Because I get the feeling that if we showed Once Upon a Time to newcomers and muted the opening narrater, that people would be asking: "does she know?" each and every eipsode, until that heart-crushing episode.


    Until that epsisode, the show seemed to take great lengths to never let us see Regina, even alone, reveal that she 'knew' anything about Fairy Tale Land.
    I chose to ignore the narrator until that episode, and considered it a poor editing choice.



    What's your take?


    Thats just you. It was clear that Regina remembers since the very second episode where she asked Gold about the Chosen One and found out that its Emma. There was no ambiguity.
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  • Avatar of Receuvium

    Receuvium

    [7]Jul 9, 2012
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    In episode 15 'Red Handed', Emma mentions to Ruby that she'll have trouble leaving town by bus because buses don't tend to come or go from Storybrooke. Okay, makes sense - no one from the outside can enter or leave, right?


    So how exactly did Henry get to Boston by bus in the pilot episode?

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    LiniaNicholl

    [9]Jul 9, 2012
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    Okies here is my take on a few points

    1. Regina always knew everything - that was part of the curse - she was the only one to "Officially" remember.
    2. Rumpelstiltsken- i believe he always remembered - he knew where the love potion was, he knew what all the atifacts in his shop are for
    3. Jefferson - his curse was to remember but not be able to be with his daughter
    4. Hearts - the glowing hearts are enchanted - I believe these are magical copies of the person's heart and if crushed - cushes the real one. The other hearts are real and obviously kills instantly.

    Okies now here is the questions I have:
    * did pinnochio survive the curse
    * who is Dr Whale
    * Why did they not go back to fairy tale land
    * WHEN IS SEASON 2 GOING TO START!!!
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    Dracomom

    [10]Jul 10, 2012
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    If we consider the glowing magical hearts as the "heart" you fall in love with, rather than the actual muscle we learn about in bio class, the ambiguity of the heart question is resolved. Regina takes the metaphysical one to keep in a box, depriving the previous owner of their emotions, or maybe spirit. Crushing the glowing heart destroys the person as thoroughly as if their actual heart was cut out.


    I think Rumplestiltskin's reaction to Belle's love came at least in part from his fear that she loved who she thought he was, rather than who he really was. Once the Queen was mentioned, rationality went out the window for awhile- Rumplestiltskin of all people would be in a position to know how well Regina could lie. He may haveassumed that Belle had been filled with romantic daydreams by the person most likely to benefit from his loss of power;Belle might love him only temporarily,break the Curse (granting Regina mastery of FTL), and then find out something about him which caused her to repudiate him.Rumplestiltskin wouldbe alone again- quite possibly the worst torture hecould endure.


    Rumplestiltskin's unnaturally long life probably depends on his magic. He'd die without seeing Bae again. So I can understand why he'd want to hold onto his power until Emma came along. Kicking Belle out of the castle protected his chances of reaching his original goal, as well as his heart. But his reaction to Regina's story at the end of "Skin Deep" reveals a hope Rumplestiltskin wouldn't have admitted otherwise- letting Regina know what a valuable weapon Belle might become.




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    NatashaJillar

    [11]Jul 15, 2012
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    "3) Sleeping Curse(s):
    a) How many are there? If Malificent stole one, is this the one from Sleeping Beauty that puts everyone to sleep, or is this the apple that the ginger bread house witch had?
    b) Did Snow White need to be told the disclaimer for the apple to work, or was that just the Queen enjoying the torture?
    After all, Emma didn't get a disclaimer, and Regina expected it to work without a disclaimer."

    There's one sleeping curse.
    In the original sleeping beauty fairy tale only sleeping beauty was effected by the curse and the fairies put the rest of the castle asleep.
    And for the curse to work they just needed to eat the apple or prick there finger (like in sleeping beauty) themselves unforced. They didn't need to know it was cursed.
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    TwistedRenegad

    [12]Sep 6, 2012
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    Am I missing something or did I just not catch this point :

    Pinocchio is with Geppetto working on the magic box that saves Emma.

    We then find out that Pinocchio is August Booth and that he found Emma after she came thru.

    Was the scene where Pinocchio leaves fairyland between the scenes of Geppetto working on the box and him coming into the bed chamber saying it was ready? As a filler of sorts? I never did understand that or figure that out rather.
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    layton2012

    [13]Sep 7, 2012
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    On the topic of Snow saying she is the fairest of them all, I think there is a story we have yet to see to connect that to the rest of the snow/charming/queen storyline, and hopefully we will see it in season 2.

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    CrazyAsian1080

    [14]Sep 15, 2012
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    Huh, the only inconsistency I noticed was the story Grumpy tells Snow in jail and what they showed in Grumpy's back story episode (WHICH WAS FANTASTIC). An inconsistency is when a show states/shows something and then does something that directly contradicts their previous statement/example.


    You have raised some interesting questions however...


    1. Now one ever says that Snow White isn't the fairest of them all. In fact they mention it at some point that she is.


    2. Regina's dad is old, maybe he just fainted from seeing his heart being ripped out of his chest. And or the magic might allow you to decide if you want the move to kill or not. Plus, I think Regina just wanted Snow to suffer, so whatever caused that was ok with her.


    3. I assume you just had to eat the thing willingly. It probably would have worked on Emma because hey, free turnover. Since it's the same apple I assume there is only one. Though a curse is a curse is a curse how hard would it be to make another one.


    4. Jimmity talks =p But really they mention it a few times. Like Snow White's song birds told me about blah blah, yet for some reason Charming needed to send a note so it's probably just one of those things.


    5. The Genie grants the wishes NOT the Lamp. The Lamp is just where he lives/is trapped.


    6. Henry's whole role is kind of eh. He's there to bring Emma to Storybrook but really is he actually special. For all we know that's just random luck/destiny so that Emma would come on her 28th birthday to break the curse (what's her name is like 30 something so I always found that funny)


    7. I would have to watch the eps again, but Im pretty sure at no point does Glass or Regina actually lie to Emma. They say things that are half truths but not actual straight up lies. I mean why doesn't Emma ever just ask "hey Regina are you the evil queen and is Henry's story real?" and actually get an answer. Every time Emma raises the question Regina doesn't actually answer. Also about consent, Im pretty sure there is an age range clause like a 17 year old can have sex with a 17 year old and that's still legal. It's just when some who is considered an adult 18+ has sex with someone who is considered a minor 17 and under that it becomes a crime. If it was illegal for 17 and unders to have sex you would have a lot of teenagers in prison. Now if the father was not a minor, eh. In Canadian the age of consent use to be 14 and is now 16. But really, do we really think early teens don't have sex?


    8 (not 9). Pretty sure he just wanted to keep his power/he thought Regina sent Bell in as a way to make him lose his powers. Over all, it was Rumple just wanted to keep his powers but after he regrets it. That's pretty much the repeating theme in his story. He pushes away the people that love him because they want him to give up his powers, but after he pushes them away he realizes he made a mistake.


    9. This one is a bit odd.


    10. Nope, pretty much it states from the out start that they are all fairy tale characters. I mean that's was the entire pitch of the show. Now if it was like that Buffy episode where it's not quite clear if the Buffy we know is real of if the Buffy in the insane asylum is real (and you really don't get a straight up answer in the end) now that would be a different story. But pretty much from the first episode the entire thing is laid out as THESE ARE ALL FAIRY TALE CHARACTERS WHO DO NOT REMEMBER MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA. It would have been really neat if Henry was wrong. The entire point was that Regina cursed everyone to forget and she created a world where she "won" and she gets to create everyone's life. That's what the curse did. It teleported everyone to a world without magic and gave her control over everything.

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  • Avatar of JamesLeyva

    JamesLeyva

    [15]Sep 16, 2012
    • member since: 09/08/09
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    danpianoman wrote:


    Spoiler Warning - Only Read the following if you watched all of Season 1:


    What are your thoughts? Let me know if any of these are addressed in the show in a scene. Can you think of others?



    1) Who is the fairest of them all?:
    In the Pilot - Snow says to Charming:
    "She poisoned an apple because she thought I was prettier than her. You have no idea what she's capable of"


    The story didn't pan out that way, and did Snow ever have a reason to actually think this in Once Upon a Time? I hope the writers come up with a way explain this (perhaps Snow keeping the truth from Charming?)


    Realizing Snow's statement was a nod to the other versions of the story, my question is whether her statement can fit in Once Upon A Time's world without being a contradiction of the script.


    2) Hearts snatched out in fairy tale land - is there any magical law that governs this? How many ways can you snatch out a heart? (hmmm ... Reese's Hearts :-p) :
    a) Regina's Dad drops down dead.
    b) Regina's fiancee doesn't die until the heart is crushed, but is incapacititated as its pulled out.
    c) Huntsman retains free will and is not incapacitated, and Emma can 'feel' Graham's heart in Storybrooke.
    d) Did Regina wish to snatch out Snow White's heart and keep her alive or kill her? How are we to know?

    3) Sleeping Curse(s):
    a) How many are there? If Malificent stole one, is this the one from Sleeping Beauty that puts everyone to sleep, or is this the apple that the ginger bread house witch had?
    b) Did Snow White need to be told the disclaimer for the apple to work, or was that just the Queen enjoying the torture?
    After all, Emma didn't get a disclaimer, and Regina expected it to work without a disclaimer.


    4) Talking Animals:


    In the Pilot: Prince Charming says to his guards: "I've sent my men into the forest. The Animals are abuzz with the queen's plan."
    This seems to be a reference to Disney fairy tales, but we have yet to see a talking animal in this series. Or am I mistaken?


    5) If the Genie's Lamp could grant wishes after the Genie was freed, then could Regina take control of the lamp afterward, or would it need a new genie? Does anyone remember if it disappeared after the 3rd wish? How does a lamp work without a genie?


    6) If Rumple only regained his memories when he heard Emma's name name at Granny's upon her first visit (as the Creators asserted in an interview), then did he unwittingly arrange Henry's adoption without any memories of FTW?


    7) Do we believe that Emma actually had a super power of being able to detect lies, but was in denial with Sydney, moreover choosing not to use it in her varous investigations, as well as every time Regina tricked her? Or did she make the whole thing up?

    If it was Emma's 28th Birthday that Henry showed up, and she gave him up for adoption 10 years prior, it is safe to assume she was 17 when he was conceived, yes? I feel like I've seen it discussed that she was 18. Nothing wrong with being 17, but depending on the state, wonder if Henry was illegally conceived :-p Massachusetts' laws are ambiguous at quick glance. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_co ... sachusetts . She'd be fine in Maine however :-p Did the writers intend for her to conceive at 17, which seems controversial for a family show? I personally have no ethical problem with conception at any age, if it's an ethical conception to begin with, but just wondering.

    9) Rumple is a perspicacious guy, so must we assume he was in denial about Belle not loving him, and not using his intellect, because since she was turning him back into a man and erasing the 'dark one', their love must have been true and mutual, right? I don't understand why such a smart character who sees everything coming dealing with magic would not realize that she couldn't be 'tricking' him because if her love was disingenuous, the kiss would never break his 'curse' of being the dark one. So is this an inconsistent character trait, or is it that when it comes to love, Rumple always gets it wrong, and isn't too smart?


    10) Did Henry ever mention in the show that nobody ages?
    Whether or not he did, this is what is understood, correct?
    This would of course been most obvious to him with his classmates, and the kids younger than him that he eventually out-grew. (The 7 year olds that were older than him when he was 5 became younger than him when he was 10).
    This presents a problem for Regina - are we to assume the following: Henry was aware no one aged, Regina was aware he was aware, his memories were always left intact, and that the only reason he hasn't tried to escape from her sooner is his dependance on adults, as well as an ignorance of reality - having grown up in a town where no one grows up but him? (Where's Tink? :-p)
    Is it just me, or has the 'no one grows up' part of the script not really been addressed as it should have been?
    Shouldn't have Henry blatantly stated: there were kids who were older than me who are now younger than me?
    Or would he realize this would make him look too crazy ...
    Or perhaps his memory has been manipulated as well ...

    11) Did anyone else get as confused as I did - until Graham was killed - about Mayor Regina's knowledge of the curse and FTL? Although tons of people on online forums insist that of course she remembered everything because it was her curse, I wasn't so sure until she finally showed viewers she knew by going into the chamber beneath her father's tomb. I got a very strong sense of purposeful ambiguity, like in Wizard of Oz (was it real or just a dream?) or stories where there's never concrete proof something wasn't just someone's imagination.

    And I loved that feeling of ambiguity, as one could until that episode always rationalize why the Mayor was upset / ruthless without needing to concede that she remembered her former identity. I felt that the writers were toying wish us, and it was fun!

    What I didn't appreciate was that the narrator of the opening sequence of the show for the first several episodes said "only one person knows, and only one can stop her". I felt like he spoiled one of the most dramatic secrets kept from viewers until the Graham crushed-heart episode. [and furthermore, more than one person knew ... it looks like 4-5 in Storybrooke actually knew: Regina, Henry, Gold (kept it a secret at first), August (kept it a secret at first), and possibly Jefferson. So the narrator also fed false information]
    Is anyone with me on this? Imagine the narrator never said that. Was there anything in the script that made it obvious that Mayor Regina knew she was the queen before we finally see her use magic, crushing Graham's heart? I loved that episode so much because until then, she didn't necessarily seem evil. Do you agree that purposely keeping it ambiguous would have been effective?


    Was I just foolishly mis-remembering the scene when she asserted to Rumple he wouldn't remember, and my vague memory generalized that she wouldn't remember either? Because I get the feeling that if we showed Once Upon a Time to newcomers and muted the opening narrater, that people would be asking: "does she know?" each and every eipsode, until that heart-crushing episode.


    Until that epsisode, the show seemed to take great lengths to never let us see Regina, even alone, reveal that she 'knew' anything about Fairy Tale Land.
    I chose to ignore the narrator until that episode, and considered it a poor editing choice.



    What's your take?




    1) this is over analyzing a small line from the beginning of the show. The fact of the real reason for getting back at snow was probably notconceivedat the time. so the line then just as you said turns into a general nod at the Snow White story.


    2) First off the reason why Emma can feel the Huntsman's heart beat is later revealed that it is all because of her perception at the time (I.E. She can't see that pinochio's leg has changed due to the fact that she doesn't believe in magic.)


    3) what???


    4) with storybrooke being sapped of it's magic this wouldn't happen, and they have had Jimminy cricket there aren't many talking animal around that would be ofsignificance. And don't expect pongo to start asking why he has to ware a leash because in the cartoons only the animals spoke to each other when people where around they barked and yipped.


    5) The genie was given the third wish after his freedom and he, already using that third wish, probably causes the artifact to become useless. it couldn't become a prison for someone because it was that genie's lamp. If you remember in the cartoon movie Aladdin Jaffar obtained his own lamp after wishing to become a genie. In other words the lamp couldn't work, it acts as only a prison for the genie, and yes it survived and is in Gold's Artifact/Pawn shop. Now that I think of it there is probably an incantation or spell that could make another person become a genie.


    6) Most likely.


    7) I don't remember that at all. but they might have dropped it a few episodes in.


    This is interesting but ultimately anunnecessary concern. the age of consent is again something that tends to be over shadowed in fiction and in real life. which isn't good but it is what it is.


    9) His abilities are important to him, yes their love was genuine but his heart didn't become overflowing with love which is why he did not change from the beast he had become. He quickly thought that his enemies where out to get him and that this woman he truly loved was actually trying to trick him. Lets just say his magic is his drug sometimes the urges for that drug defeats all other rational thought.


    10)They Haven't done peter pan yet and tink would be a fairy, one of the nuns. Henry is a kid of course he's dependent on adults, but he did go looking for Emma and I believe that it was assumed that because the clock tower hadn't worked or moved that time itself had stopped in Storybrooke, only to start up again when Emma became apart of the town.


    11) for alittle bit yes and that's what the show wanted you to believe too. It wasn't until she killed Graham that the guessing had stopped.

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  • Avatar of JamesLeyva

    JamesLeyva

    [16]Sep 18, 2012
    • member since: 09/08/09
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    TwistedRenegad wrote:
    Am I missing something or did I just not catch this point : Pinocchio is with Geppetto working on the magic box that saves Emma. We then find out that Pinocchio is August Booth and that he found Emma after she came thru. Was the scene where Pinocchio leaves fairyland between the scenes of Geppetto working on the box and him coming into the bed chamber saying it was ready? As a filler of sorts? I never did understand that or figure that out rather.


    They never do connect the two scenes together I think we are toassumethat the scene where the blue fairy comes to Geppetto and tells him that he should not send Pinocchio through and disregards her demandoccurs right before they send Emma through. the scene with young Pinocchio in the realworld regaining his memories occurs during the scenes where geppetto comes to the bed chamber and then Emma being sent through the wardrobe.

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  • Avatar of Dracomom

    Dracomom

    [17]Sep 27, 2012
    • member since: 01/16/12
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    Hoping some of this will be resolved in Season 2!


    I doubt Snow would ever tell Charming that she knowingly ate a poisoned apple to save him- he couldn't handle it. Plus, if there was some prophecy about the fairest in the land (which Rumplestiltkin implies when Snow pulls up in the rowboat to get the "anti-love potion") Regina may have wanted to make sure it didn't come true. SHE DID NOT PLAN TO CAST THE DARK CURSE UNTIL AFTER SNOW AND CHARMING'S WEDDING.


    Wasn't Graham's wolf buddy a talking animal?


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  • Avatar of RenatoB

    RenatoB

    [18]Sep 28, 2012
    • member since: 10/30/05
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    Dunno if this has been addressed before, but the kid seen in 1.05, young Geppetto, in the flashbacks... he has no Italian accent. His parents don't either. How did he grow up to become and old man with an Italian accent, the same one Marco has? Where did the accent come from?
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  • Avatar of Dracomom

    Dracomom

    [19]Sep 30, 2012
    • member since: 01/16/12
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    In the scene where their raft is nearly swallowed by the whale, Gepetto says "Pinocchio!" in an Italian accent. My guess is that he spent time trading, or maybe shipbuilding, in Italy sometime after leaving his home village. Maybe Venice? (Marco Polo was born there, and that's always been my theory for his Storybrooke name)

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  • Avatar of layton2012

    layton2012

    [20]Oct 3, 2012
    • member since: 07/30/12
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    Dracomom wrote:

    In the scene where their raft is nearly swallowed by the whale, Gepetto says "Pinocchio!" in an Italian accent. My guess is that he spent time trading, or maybe shipbuilding, in Italy sometime after leaving his home village. Maybe Venice? (Marco Polo was born there, and that's always been my theory for his Storybrooke name)


    Does italy exist in Fairytale land??? Maybe whoever he went with after his parents died, had italian accents, this is assuming that Jiminy didn't raise him.
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