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Official Discussion Thread: A Land Without Magic (possible spoilers)

  • Avatar of AchMiller

    AchMiller

    [41]May 16, 2012
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    Maleficent is supposed to be Disney's most powerful and magical villain. She turn into dust after Emma got her with the sword. This leaves me to believe that she isn't dead by any means. I also believe Regina took and hid Maleficent's magical staff so that she remain a dragon for those 28 years in storybrooke. I think Maleficent was the only person in storybrooke that still had full strength magic. Which was the reason Regina trapped for all of those years.

    In either episode 2 or 3, Regina actually fought Maleficent to get take the curse from her. The same curse that Rumple must of given to Maleficent. Remember when Regina tried the curse for the first time and it failed? Regina had to seek advice from Rumple who was in jail at that time. OUAT has yet to explain how the transfer came to be from Rumple to Maleficent.

    Regina wasn't tell Emma (After Henry was near his death bed) that Maleficent was another being in Storybrooke who knew about magic. She choose to say Rumple as an only option.
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  • Avatar of Dracomom

    Dracomom

    [42]May 16, 2012
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    Regina traded the Dark Curse to Maleficient for the "Sleeping Beauty" curse- where the victim falls into a long sleep. If it's the only curse on the apple Snow ate, it forces the victim to relive their regrets- nasty!- but I'm still not sure there was only 1 curse operative here. SleepingBeauty was eventually wakened- Regina should have known that when she traded for the Sleeping curse. Still, when Charming woke Snow, Regina decided that Maleficient had cheated her and went to get the Dark Curse back (remember how she told Maleficient that during their first fight?)


    Regina had to have the Dark Curse before she could trade it for the Sleeping curse- was it originally her mother's? or had she acquired it while she was married to Leopold? Rumplestiltskin may have known all along that a desperate soul would be willing to cast it one day, once he'd been able to get all the necessary ingredients (Snow's and Charming's hair = final ingredient?) Alternatively, it could have been a commission from Regina.


    The way Regina sashayed into Rumplestiltskin's castle at the end of "Skin Deep" makes me think that they were on frenemy terms at that time- each powerful enough for the other to need to be civil, even if they were working at cross purposes. I just wonder whether they'd been reallyclosefriends at some point prior, or whether they were using each other all along.


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  • Avatar of AchMiller

    AchMiller

    [43]May 16, 2012
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    Ok, I just saw the part of episode 2 where Regina and Maleficent fought. Maleficent had the dark curse in her staff, but she also wanted to know who gave Regina this MOTHER of all curses.


    1. Rumple created the Dark Curse.


    2. Then somehow the queen got the curse.


    3. Then somehow Maleficent got it.


    4. Regina then wanted it back from Maleficent, but Maleficent refused to give it back to Regina, and tells Regina that there are even boundaries that even EVIL should not cross. Regina then fights Maleficent for it.


    5. Regina tries the curse, but fails the first time around


    6. With the curse still with Regina, she seek advice from Rumple as to why the curse doesn't work.


    7. While in jail, Rumple tells her that she must sacrifice the one thing/person that she loves the most in order for the curse to work.


    8. Regina then kills her father who she really did love, in order for the same curse that failed before to now work.



    As far as the sleeeping curse is concern, Regina got that apple from the witch in Hansel and Gretel episode. OUAT will bring Maleficent back, especially to explain to it's viewers how Maleficent got the curse in the 1st place in Fairy world.



    In the season finale, Rumple told Regina and Emma that when the original dark curse in Fairy world was made, he took just ONE DROP of the potion and placed it on the parchment (The scroll Regina read from). Did we all noticed that when the same curse was used in Fairy World the color of the smoke was black and dark?? But on Earth/Storybrooke it's purple. Is it purple because magic on earth is unpredictable (like Regina said), or is it because it depends on the users intentions. hmmm???



    Why Rumple didn't have to sacrifice Belle on Earth for the curse/magic to work? Because he used the whole bottle. In Fairy World , the curse (parchment/scroll) had only one drop which is the reason I believe she had to sacrifice her father.



    What a lot of people might not know is that the writers of the show pitched this show to Disney/ABC in 2004. Disney and the writes both agreed to put this show on the shelves so that they may concentrate all of their efforts on writing and producing LOST.



    I think we are going a very well scripted future shows for OUAT! I LOVED LOST, but that ending.......errrgh. I still don' t fully understand.

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  • Avatar of charmed05

    charmed05

    [44]May 16, 2012
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    Is it still possible to find that finale with pictures, the comments? I don't know what it is, where it is. It mentions rumple and belle sexing up or something?

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  • Avatar of Dracomom

    Dracomom

    [45]May 16, 2012
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    The Dark Curse probably had lots of ingredients (remember when Snow goes to see Rumplestiltskin, they show "the spice rack of evil"? wish I could remember who called it that first), but the true love potion, which is Snow and Charming's hairs, doesn't include anything else. The true love potion is purple, hence the purple smoke.


    They really should bring back Maleficient- she's too interesting to be left dead. There's the whole Sleeping Beauty story left to tell! And I really wish they'd spent more time on the dragon- very cool!


    In one version of "Sleeping Beauty", the sleeper isawakened by a king, whokeeps her locked up so his wife won't find out about their affair. Is it possible that's how Beauty ruined Maleficient's life? Reginamentions during Maleficient's first appearancethat she was engaged to be married and Beauty ruins everything.


    I think magic in Storybrooke's world is going to be very different than the magicians expect- breaking the Curse is only the beginning of Mr Gold's agenda! Why else would he have collected all the magic items that were associated with the stories we've seen so far, except to use them?

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  • Avatar of AchMiller

    AchMiller

    [46]May 16, 2012
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    Yes, this magic will be different. For one thing, people in SB will remember who they truly are when they were in Fairy world. Why? Rumple would want Belle to remember who she really is.



    They will all stay in SB Maine. I also believe that will be allowed to leave SB and travel to other parts of the world. Why? So Rumple can find his son.



    I honestly feel that season 2 will start out with Regina not being able to have any Magic. Why? Because what she did to Belle. However, somewhere along season 2, she will be able regain black magic with the help of Dr. Whale. I believe Dr. Whale is a character that was close to Regina in fairy world.



    This show throughout it's entire run of potential season will focus on how and when they all get back to their world. Just like in Lost, when everyone was trying figure how to get off the island and back to California. This show has so much potential.

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  • Avatar of Dracomom

    Dracomom

    [47]May 16, 2012
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    Regina seemed to recognize the purple cloud of magic returning- remember her smile at the very end? So I think she will have some magic. Enough to get out of town? or will she stay around somewhere?


    It was pretty obvious that the "ripple" of magic spreading out because Emma kissed Henry has restored everyone's memories (except Belle's old neighbors, perhaps- who else is down there with Sydney?) So the next challenge for Storybrooke's residents will be to find each other and get their stories straight. It will be interesting to see what other story lines they decide to pick up. (Will we finally get to meet some more FTL villains?)


    Mr Gold and Belle are likely to be leaving town- for a honeymoon trip?- as Mr Gold implied during his chat with Regina in "An Apple Red as Blood". August (assuming he's restored to life) may take off again, or he may stick around to help Gepetto, Emma, and Henryadjust to the new rules of Storybrooke. (It would really stink if he were still dead wood) Snow and Charming are finally going to get their ducks in a row, and maybe even acknowledge Emma as their daughter rather than a contemporary (some adjustments required there!)


    Dr Whale is going to have some explaining to do, whether Regina sticks around or not- too many people know he worked with Regina. Sydney may be stuck in the"sanitarium" unless Jefferson lets him and any others out (what's the Chief's backstory?) And King George the DA is likely to start up again with Snow and Charming, since he'll remember the past again.


    I hope Maleficient will show up again- if anyone has a shot at predicting Regina's next move, it's her. Plus, I like Kristen Bauer. But I'd really like to know if the Blind Witch is a "before" Maleficient (before she gets baked in the oven, that is) like I thought when I first saw "True North". Because Regina engineering Hansel and Gretel's theft of the apple could be explained neatly if both actresses are portraying the same witch at different points in her life- there'd be only one Apple, not the 2 which people are getting worked up about, and only one Sleeping Curse.

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  • Avatar of kanniballl

    kanniballl

    [48]May 17, 2012
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    AchMiller wrote:
    ...


    In either episode 2 or 3, Regina actually fought Maleficent to get take the curse from her. The same curse that Rumple must of given to Maleficent


    ...


    Correction:


    Regina gave "The Big Curse" to Maleficent in exchange for the Sleeping Curse.


    Regina then fought Maleficent to get "The Big Curse" back in that episode.


    So I guess Regina got it from Rumple somehow

    Edited on 05/17/2012 5:45am
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  • Avatar of angeleys151

    angeleys151

    [49]May 17, 2012
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    charmed05 wrote:

    Is it still possible to find that finale with pictures, the comments? I don't know what it is, where it is. It mentions rumple and belle sexing up or something?



    Are you talking about the episode review by Lilly Sparks? If yes then go to the "News" tab (right next to the "Forum" tab" and scroll through.
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  • Avatar of Dracomom

    Dracomom

    [50]May 17, 2012
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    As of 1 minute ago (I checked), "Snackrifices" is the most recent Lily Sparks review posted.Lily may have posted one for "A Land without Magic", but it has disappeared. (I didn't get a chance to see it either, and I soooo wanted to!) If it was taken down by accident, I hope they put it back!

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  • Avatar of charmed05

    charmed05

    [51]May 17, 2012
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    Yes, that was it. Thank you!
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  • Avatar of SpartXen

    SpartXen

    [52]May 17, 2012
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    Dracomom wrote:

    As of 1 minute ago (I checked), "Snackrifices" is the most recent Lily Sparks review posted.Lily may have posted one for "A Land without Magic", but it has disappeared. (I didn't get a chance to see it either, and I soooo wanted to!) If it was taken down by accident, I hope they put it back!



    If you go to 'Snackrifices' and then click Lily Sparks, it will give you a list of everything she's written. I believe the review is called 'There's a Dark Cloud Hanging Over Us' or something to that effect (definitely something about a dark cloud, lol). This happened with her 'True North' review, too. It's not listed under the OUaT news feed but you can still find it if you search through Lily's articles.
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  • Avatar of angeleys151

    angeleys151

    [53]May 17, 2012
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    SpartXen wrote:
    Dracomom wrote:

    As of 1 minute ago (I checked), "Snackrifices" is the most recent Lily Sparks review posted.Lily may have posted one for "A Land without Magic", but it has disappeared. (I didn't get a chance to see it either, and I soooo wanted to!) If it was taken down by accident, I hope they put it back!



    If you go to 'Snackrifices' and then click Lily Sparks, it will give you a list of everything she's written. I believe the review is called 'There's a Dark Cloud Hanging Over Us' or something to that effect (definitely something about a dark cloud, lol). This happened with her 'True North' review, too. It's not listed under the OUaT news feed but you can still find it if you search through Lily's articles.


    Glad to hear that cause it was an awesome review, and that title is correct.
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  • Avatar of Travelover

    Travelover

    [54]May 17, 2012
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    I'd like to know WHY Regina loves Henry. Especially since she knows he is Snow White and Prince Charming's "grandson" - the son of "the savior" Emma. She doesn't love or care about anyone else, but for some reason she really does love this child. It's obvious the boy doesn't "love" her and doesn't want anything to do with her. Yet we clearly saw how much she does love him when he was dying.


    How did Rumple "find" this child for her?


    Although at this point in time I think Henry is Rumple's grandson, WHY would he GIVE Regina his grandson? Especially if he KNEW how to FIND Henry - WHY can't he find his son?

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  • Avatar of Dracomom

    Dracomom

    [55]May 17, 2012
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    My theory is that Bae doesn't want to be found. If this is true, then it's possible that Mr Gold recognised his own bloodline and brought Henry back to Storybrooke, hoping Bae would show up eventually. (This might be whyMr Goldwas fooled into believing August was Bae- he created a relationship with Henry, like a dad would, and believed in the magic. Still have trouble with the notion that Rumplestiltskin could create a Dark Curse to locate his son, but couldn't remember what color the kid's eyes and hair were, though)But Emma never told the father of her son that Henry was on the way!


    If you believe HoroKits that Mr Gold didn't know who he was until his memories were triggered by Emma saying her name, then my theory isn't possible. I choose to believe that Mr Gold might not remember FTL completely, but would still retain some recollection of Bae. Maybe enough to try looking for him. This wouldn't necessarily trigger Regina's suspicions; she never knew Rimplestiltskin when he wasn't missing his son, so to her that might be normal. Of course, he might not talk about it much anyway. And even if he did, Regina might think it was a fitting Curse-effect for him.


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  • Avatar of SpartXen

    SpartXen

    [56]May 17, 2012
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    Travelover wrote:


    I'd like to know WHY Regina loves Henry. Especially since she knows he is Snow White and Prince Charming's "grandson" - the son of "the savior" Emma. She doesn't love or care about anyone else, but for some reason she really does love this child. It's obvious the boy doesn't "love" her and doesn't want anything to do with her. Yet we clearly saw how much she does love him when he was dying.


    How did Rumple "find" this child for her?


    Although at this point in time I think Henry is Rumple's grandson, WHY would he GIVE Regina his grandson? Especially if he KNEW how to FIND Henry - WHY can't he find his son?


    First of all, THANK YOU. This question has been driving me crazy, too!! Yes, she loves Henry, but WHY?!?!?! She knew from episode 2 who Henry was (we found out in the finale that she knew pretty much all along who Emma was, and presumably she got the info in episode 2 when talking to Mr. Gold), and yet she still fought tooth and nail to keep him. What I'd really like to know is what made her decide to adopt in the first place. Henry is 10, and the curse has been in play for 28 years, so she was living in SB for 18 YEARS and suddenly decided she wanted a kid? Why? Ugh.
    Sidenote: Cracks me up every time I think about it - Henry is actually Regina's great-grandson. I know it's cheesy, but I want one of the characters to point this out, and I so badly want to hear Emma call Regina 'grandma' lmao XD
    As for Rumple, thanks to Horokits in a recent interview we now know that Gold didn't actually retain his memories throughout the 28 years of the curse; he got his memories back in the pilot when he met Emma (hearing her name triggered his memories. I believe it was during the facebook live chat that they revealed this, but I could be wrong...). So he didn't know who Emma was or who Henry was when he arranged the adoption for Regina. For me this only deepens the mystery. If you ask me someone else HAD to have been involved in finding Henry, someone with connections to FTL. There's no way Gold, with no memories of FTL, just HAPPENED to find the son of the saviour and hand him over to Regina. But of course that opens up more questions: Who helped him? Rumple knew he would lose his memories, and no doubt he planned for that, so was Henry part of his plan somehow? How reliable is his future seeing ability, because it would have to be pretty much perfect for him to know about Henry and Emma's decision to give him up. Ugh, so many questions from one small little detail, and that's only the tip of the iceberg. Ugh, this is exactly why I hate love this show so much.


    Edit: Draco, I do wonder if it's possible that Rumple had an inkling of who he was, but I think he'd have to have some concrete memory to actually take any specific action. I think he planned on the curse being broken so he could find Bae, but he couldn't look while he was under the spell. That's why he wanted Emma's name: he wanted his memories to return as soon as she arrived, instead of having to wait for her to break the curse. That way he could play a role in getting her to believe, and finally getting her to do his bidding (ie. getting the love potion)

    Edited on 05/17/2012 8:09pm
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  • Avatar of angeleys151

    angeleys151

    [57]May 18, 2012
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    Is this theory too simple? Regina loves Henry because she spent 10 years raising him, as she said "soothing every fever, enduring every tantrum" before she ever found out who his real parents and grandparents are. You don't just stop loving someone after 10 years, it's not that easy. And she probably thought she could still win up until he ate the turnover so why would she want to stop loving him when she thought she could keep him and go back to the way things were. I'm pretty sure the writers have something way more amazing in store, but I would buy this in any other show.

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    SpartXen

    [58]May 18, 2012
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    angeleys151 wrote:

    Is this theory too simple? Regina loves Henry because she spent 10 years raising him, as she said "soothing every fever, enduring every tantrum" before she ever found out who his real parents and grandparents are. You don't just stop loving someone after 10 years, it's not that easy. And she probably thought she could still win up until he ate the turnover so why would she want to stop loving him when she thought she could keep him and go back to the way things were. I'm pretty sure the writers have something way more amazing in store, but I would buy this in any other show.



    I think you're right about why she CONTINUED to love him. And I do believe Regina loves Henry, truly, she just doesn't really know how to love someone properly. It's like Lana Parrilla has said before, she wants him to love her, but he doesn't, so she just keeps squeezing him tighter and it's suffocating him. What confuses me, though, is this: Why is Henry the one thing she's not willing to sacrifice for the curse? Why was she willing to rip out her own father's heart, but she's not willing to lose Henry? I think there are a lot of things at play here, not least of all her own personal growth since the curse started, and possibly some resentment towards her father for the abuse she suffered at her mother's hands. Maybe confused isn't the right word, it's just something I really wanna see explore more in the show, because right now there are a lot of question marks between those two. Where the issue is going to get complicated is season 2. Will she go after Henry, try to get him back? And if she does, THEN I'll really be asking why. He doesn't love her, and now he knows who she is for certain, and he has his family back, so she has to realize he'll never love her now. But then if she DOESN'T go after him, I'll be asking why she didn't just let him go to begin with to at least save the curse from breaking. Not like she would have to kill him, just give him up, make Emma go away. She said it herself in the finale, Henry is the only reason she couldn't let Emma leave town, she wasn't even willing to share him to keep her curse intact! Ugh, so complicated, so many things I NEED to see happen next season! My other issue is, as I said, what made her want to adopt him in the first place. We just don't know anything about these two, really, and it's driving me crazy XD
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  • Avatar of Travelover

    Travelover

    [59]May 18, 2012
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    It appears many of us have a LOT of questions regarding ONE character - Henry.


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  • Avatar of Dracomom

    Dracomom

    [60]May 19, 2012
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    Two thoughts-


    1) Mr Gold retained enough of his previous memories to keep making deals- that seems to be part of his basic personality now, even if he wasn't born with it (He would sooo kick the competition to the curb on Wall Street!) Regina made a deal with him to get Henry. (I seem to recall the word "procured", which implies it was a complicated process.) Regina has also stated that "some of us" retained magic.


    This argues that Rumplestiltskin may have had his powers (at least to a limited degree) in Storybrooke; but not all his memories. I think it would be tough to use magic without remembering it existed. Somehow (the Internet?) Mr Gold found Henry (I believe Emma had him when she was in prison in Florida) and arranged for his adoption by Regina. I contend that only the creator of the Curse could have left a backdoor (like they do in computer programs sometimes) to be able to let Henry in.This would explain why Regina had to go to Mr Gold to do it,but not why she would want to in the first place.


    2) Whether Mr Gold physically left Storybrooke or not, Henry entering town had to affect the Curse somehow.Did the Curse itself have to draw Emma there at the proper time? That might explain why Henry was chosen, rather than some other kid. This grants the Curse with more of an intelligence than most sources would credit, which may be a stretch- "quasi-organic entity", anyone?


    Or does a Dark Curse ensnare some sort of elemental (demon, devil, whomever) as part of its creation/casting?


    Several fantasy authors have postulated intelligences imprisoned by curses/cursed artifacts who don't want to remain trapped- Lin Carter and Jack Chalker have both played with this notion, and I'm sure there are others I don't remember offhand. Key point- if the entity has a chance to pervert the wishes it is required by imprisonment to grant, it will. Chalker's demon (in the Storm Princess novel, 1st or 2nd) gets asked to grant a wish which would extend the length of its imprisonment; the demon rebels and breaks free of the binding, destroying the enchanted prison and the foolish person using it. (Great series, BTW)


    This adds one more layer of complexity to an already complicated Curse- but itmay explain why the citizens of Storybrooke aren't quite as miserable as Regina intended, and why Regina herself isn't as happy about the whole thing as she expected. OR NOT!

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