Once Upon a Time Forums

Sunday 8:00 PM on ABCBetween Seasons

Official Discussion Thread: The Stranger (possible spoilers)

  • Avatar of Gislef

    Gislef

    [1]Apr 29, 2012
    • member since: 04/22/05
    • level: 102
    • rank: "Hey, hey, hey!"
    • posts: 23,887


    Please direct all general and specific discussion of the 4/29/12 episode "The Stranger" to this thread.

    Enjoy!
    Edited on 04/29/2012 2:35pm
    Edited 2 total times.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Kitanishi

    Kitanishi

    [2]Apr 29, 2012
    • member since: 01/20/08
    • level: 9
    • rank: Door Number 2
    • posts: 766

    Well why Emma is so adamant onto NOT believing now makes sense.



    Her own magic fueled by her own denying clouds her from everything she should have seen and believed.



    It might be obvious to us, the viewers, but she just does not want to see, thus everything clouds it from her. When she believes it all works, the hat, her own lie-detector power, magic, everything. When she goes back into denial, everything disappears.




    Emma is the literal Schrodinger's Cat of the whole curse, magic and her own power. .



    Also Blue Fairy. What is her play exactly?



    In no way in hell will I believe that Blue Fairy just accidentally:



    - Incited Rumple into making the curse.


    - Made sure Geppeto is protected for the tree wardrobe building YEARS before the curse and then just happened to be there to save Pinocchio out of her good will, while we exactly know that all magic comes with a price.



    without some kind of agenda.



    I have no doubt that she has some good intentions in her mind, but hell, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.



    As far as I see, while Rumple does seem to be mastermind behind Regina and it all for the goals we have yet to know(like why he wants to break it), but….



    Blue Fairy might be the mastermind behind Rumple.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Charlie183

    Charlie183

    [3]Apr 29, 2012
    • member since: 02/09/07
    • level: 17
    • rank: The Crazy Neighbor
    • posts: 101


    What I really don't understand is why they would reveal within seconds who August is in this episode, when last episode they kept me guessing like crazy who he is and what's wrong with his leg?


    - But, of course, I loved finding out who he is

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of SpartXen

    SpartXen

    [4]Apr 29, 2012
    • member since: 03/18/12
    • level: 4
    • rank: Thighmaster
    • posts: 50
    Hmm, I think I should really stop scouring the spoiler sites, I think I knew just about everything that was going to happen in this episode *sigh* Still, LOVED seeing Henry and Regina, and LOVED seeing MM be the bigger person by forgiving Regina. Glad the writers are being consistent with her Also, great twist with the tree being able to take two, TOTALLY didn't see that coming. Glad they made August's story so seamless and believable. Still annoys me that August looks nothing like his younger version, but I'm willing to overlook that I suppose. And that whole Regina/David thing? Glad he turned her down (although I was rooting for her, but I guess it had to happen, lol), but it felt a little out of place in the episode overall. By the looks of the promo, though, we'll hopefully see a better tie-in.

    Emma, WTF?!?!?!? What are you DOING?! This is NOT the way to get your son back. But you know, I like that we're seeing this side of Emma. I think what ruined her believability/likeability is her lack of consistency as a character, but I feel like seeing her breakdown and freak out really brings us back to her origins, and brings some much needed sympathy and humanity to the character. Now let's just hope Henry can knock some sense into her! Oh, loved that bit about Emma not being able to see August's wooden leg. Very awesome. Gives us a much-needed glimpse into the magic that still surrounds these characters. I think Kitanishi is bang on about Emma's magic and how it all works. Great episode!!!!! I can't wait for next week! Anyone else think Henry collapsed after eating a poison apple? Maybe one meant for Emma?! Ugh, I hate that I have to wait a week
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of jiko25

    jiko25

    [5]Apr 29, 2012
    • member since: 12/05/11
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 16

    I wondered about the whole Regina and David thing, was she playing him the whole time or at some point she seem to generally like him? her reaction could be directed either way, which is kind of perplexing. thoughts anyone?

    Edited on 04/29/2012 10:00pm
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of watcher1006

    watcher1006

    [6]Apr 29, 2012
    • member since: 09/15/05
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 1,286

    jiko25 wrote:


    I wondered about the whole Regina and David thing, was she playing him the whole time or at some point she seem to generally like him? her reaction could be directed either way, which is kind of perplexing. thoughts anyone?


    Regina is bitterly determined to keep MM and David apart. Having failed to put MM away it seemed to me that she was going to work on the David side of the relationship and use her charms to turn him away from her. She was frustrated when he refused her kiss, thus she smashed the mirror (which I assume didn't have Sydney within it).


    What I was wondering is - where is Kathryn in all of this?

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Kitanishi

    Kitanishi

    [7]Apr 30, 2012
    • member since: 01/20/08
    • level: 9
    • rank: Door Number 2
    • posts: 766
    watcher1006 wrote:

    jiko25 wrote:


    I wondered about the whole Regina and David thing, was she playing him the whole time or at some point she seem to generally like him? her reaction could be directed either way, which is kind of perplexing. thoughts anyone?


    Regina is bitterly determined to keep MM and David apart. Having failed to put MM away it seemed to me that she was going to work on the David side of the relationship and use her charms to turn him away from her. She was frustrated when he refused her kiss, thus she smashed the mirror (which I assume didn't have Sydney within it).


    What I was wondering is - where is Kathryn in all of this?



    I am thinking there's more to it than just that.

    She does not want to just keep them apart or to hurt MM. SHE WANTS MM TO HATE HER. She wants to place MM into position she was in, to return exactly what she feels. Its a very similar way in how Emma operates in regards of Regina.

    Even Regina's frame-job operated on idea of MAKING MM look bad and Regina even had that whole "you can relate to me now" moment.

    The whole school scene has been Regina continuously asking MM on HOW she feels about her, provoking her. And when MM showed pity(intentionally or unintentionally) angering Regina. Regina wanted to make her hate her. Now onto David, I DO think that there's some sort of soft spot for him or something. We have seen that before and this time she seemed REALLY hurt by him rejecting her and was almost in tears when saying goodbyes afterward, not to mention that mirror-smashing was a clear sign of self-hate as she could not stand the sight of herself.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of thribs

    thribs

    [8]Apr 30, 2012
    • member since: 02/05/05
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 271

    Isn't he a bit young to be reading AvX? Perhaps he's researching the next world they're going to be traped in?

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of RavenFreak120

    RavenFreak120

    [9]Apr 30, 2012
    • member since: 10/02/05
    • level: 21
    • rank: Snagglepuss
    • posts: 1,162
    I'm really happy with the writing. All the loose ends got tied together. Explains why August was able to come into Storybrooke so late in the game and not be harmed (he was put in the wardrobe himself), and it explains why he's been trying to get Emma to believe -- he was told to. Love the wooden leg too, he's becoming more wooden as Emma believes less and less. Great nod with the hat, and the donkey (last ep.) too. I just love love love this show! Sooo sad it ends for the first season super soon... just two more eps!
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of swschow

    swschow

    [10]May 1, 2012
    • member since: 06/14/05
    • level: 4
    • rank: Thighmaster
    • posts: 96

    So, was the logo on the planes tale, Oceanic Airlines?

    Edited on 05/01/2012 10:17am
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Dracomom

    Dracomom

    [11]May 1, 2012
    • member since: 01/16/12
    • level: 5
    • rank: Caveman Lawyer
    • posts: 218

    Pinocchio as a kid had brown eyes and red hair- August has blue eyes and brown hair (not even auburn highlights, blast it!)! Although , interestingly, the young actor's hair looked much more drab in Storybrooke than FTL- in the foster home scene, I could almost have bought it if the eye colors weren't so different.


    People have been theorizing since episode 2 or so about Pinocchio being in the wardrobe- one wonders if this was the original intent, or just irrestible to the writers once they'd heard the idea?


    I loved the way August went to Mr Gold for help- after last week, I'd have thought that he'd be risking his life to try that, but somehow he knew just what to say to get cooperation. Makes you wonder, doesn't it?


    I like the idea that Emma's own powers are clouding her belief in herself and her magic. When she's on, she's really on, and when she's not she's an idiot! (Self-fulfilling prophecy- great psychology!)


    What if both the Blue Fairy and Rumplestiltskin have encountered the same prophecy, and Emma being the Savior ("you're all screwed...") is a turning point of some kind for FTL? Like she'd be able to restore the Enchanted trees and all the other fading magics, but she has to go through a particular path to reach her final destiny? (Cue quest music!) It seems that FTL was in trouble well before the Curse existed.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Kitanishi

    Kitanishi

    [12]May 1, 2012
    • member since: 01/20/08
    • level: 9
    • rank: Door Number 2
    • posts: 766
    Dracomom wrote:

    What if both the Blue Fairy and Rumplestiltskin have encountered the same prophecy, and Emma being the Savior ("you're all screwed...") is a turning point of some kind for FTL? Like she'd be able to restore the Enchanted trees and all the other fading magics, but she has to go through a particular path to reach her final destiny? (Cue quest music!) It seems that FTL was in trouble well before the Curse existed.



    Every curse can be broken. Its part of the "price". There's no "prophecy" that would predate the curse. To be exact the prophecy itself, the one rumple said IS a part of the curse and exists as a part of the price for the curse. However yes, I would not be surprised on if its a part of a long gambit by Blue Fairy to change something in FTL.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Dracomom

    Dracomom

    [13]May 1, 2012
    • member since: 01/16/12
    • level: 5
    • rank: Caveman Lawyer
    • posts: 218

    Scriptwriters have been quoted as saying that Rumplestiltskin has been the Dark One for centuries; and he had no real need for the Dark Curse until Bae disappeared (I'm guessing that was within a year of "Desperate Souls") So there's a lot of ground to cover.


    One could argue that the Blue Fairy created the need for the Dark Curse by giving Bae the last magic bean- but why was it the last? And wouldn't it have been more useful to plant the bean and grow some more? So I'm guessing that the Ogre Wars may have ravaged the area too badly for more to grow. And why was it the LAST enchanted tree that was cut down for the wardrobe?


    If FTL was losing its magic, which seems to be implied here (even before Nova was put in charge of the fairy-dust run)- isn't all this kind of a setup?


    The fact that Rumplestiltskin, who has absolutely no reason to do August any favors after he pulled the Dagger on him, is willing to work with him to get Emma to believe- that makes me think that there's a whole lot more at stake here than just one Curse. The tag "Savior" begs the question of what they're being saved from.


    To most of the FTL characters, a land without magic seems to be the worst things they can imagine. But by staying in Storybrooke, they've at least learned how to function without magic. Some of them are doing better than others (Mr Gold, Sydney, Regina), but Red's not turning into a wolf, and Gepetto can fix things in either world. So I'm wondering if they needed this experience for some reason deeper than Regina's Curse.


    You can't solve a problem you're too terrified to think about.


    When people regain their FTL memories, will they remember Storybrooke? or will it seem like a nightmare- scary, but over? Can they regain their memories of FTL before they've found the other people in their stories? And does regaining the memories mean that they'll know how to get back to FTL? I'm thinking this all might be Season 2 here...

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of SpartXen

    SpartXen

    [14]May 1, 2012
    • member since: 03/18/12
    • level: 4
    • rank: Thighmaster
    • posts: 50
    You know, Dracomom, I've had a theory cooking for a while now and your post finally knocked the last puzzle piece into place for me, so TY!! Ok, here's my theory, can't wait to hear what everyone thinks:
    -Blue fairy quote: "So you'd be willing to sacrifice this world for the next? Because that's how great the price is"
    She's talking to Rumple about the curse. I've been thinking ever since I watched The Stranger that they didn't just all leave FTL: IT WAS DESTROYED. There is no FTL to go back to. So then what is Emma doing? Well, my theory is that getting everyone to remember is just the first step. Once they have their memories back, I think the curse will break in the sense that Regina will lose whatever influence she has over Storybrooke and everyone will be able to leave if they want. But they don't have a home to return to. Think about it: Rumple never said Emma would restore everything, only that her appearance would being the final battle. What exactly is that battle? Everyone's been assuming it's a battle against Regina, but what if it's a battle to restore FTL, or create a new world, and they have to battle for control of this new world in order to have their happy endings again? It fits with what Dracomom said about FTL losing its magic. Maybe the Blue Fairy IS orchestrating everything, but maybe she's doing it because she wants to create a fresh new world full of magic instead of just letting the magic in FTL die. Maybe by send Emma away, some FTL magic was preserved in her and could flourish, instead of withering away like all the other magic in FTL (maybe the world was dying in a way, like diseased or something).
    Most of this is speculation, and I'm probably off on the details, but I think it's a pretty solid theory given the little tidbits we've been given throughout the series. This is from the creators of Lost, after all, so I think we have to expect an explanation that's way more out of the box than what we've been lead to believe so far.
    Possible wrench in my theory: Jefferson obviously went somewhere in the hat. Back to FTL?
    Solution: There are clearly dozens of places he could have gone to in the hat. We know that from the Wonderland ep. Just because he went in the hat doesn't mean he went to FTL. But it looks like I'll find out once and for all next ep, so I'll definitely be watching closely next week to see if my theory holds up, lol.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of sdcurtis190

    sdcurtis190

    [15]May 1, 2012
    • member since: 04/04/06
    • level: 3
    • rank: Soup Nazi
    • posts: 10

    I like that theory and went back and listen to the prophecy again and Rumple said, "...The child would return, the child will find you, and The final battle will begin"


    "...The Child would return..."--Emma has returned to Storybrook and started time moving again by staying.


    "The child will find you..."-- In the strictest sense of the phrase she really hasn't found Snow and James. Their true selves are still lost to her.


    "and the final battle will begin" -- This is where I think that this is a really really good theory SpartXen. I mean Henry in his 10 year old mind sees breaking the curse in it's simplest form . Break the curse, happy endings return. However prophecies are typically never that simple. What is also significant about your theory is that in "The Stranger" why did the fairies have to make final preparations before the curse wiped their memories. I am willing to bet that those preparations were in relation to what would happen after the memories were restored.

    Edited on 05/02/2012 12:20am
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of GabrielaFab

    GabrielaFab

    [16]May 2, 2012
    • member since: 01/17/12
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 20

    let us not forget that Emmas owes Gold a favor...


    I am thinking that he will make her look for Bae before returning to the fairytale world.She is supposed to be good at finding people after all

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of SpartXen

    SpartXen

    [17]May 2, 2012
    • member since: 03/18/12
    • level: 4
    • rank: Thighmaster
    • posts: 50

    sdcurtis190 wrote:
    What is also significant about your theory is that in "The Stranger" why did the fairies have to make final preparations before the curse wiped their memories. I am willing to bet that those preparations were in relation to what would happen after the memories were restored.


    Good point! Didn't catch that one while I was watching, but it's a great question. What exactly were they preparing?


    GabrielaFab, I've been wondering about that favour forever now. I really hope it comes back into play before the end of the season, but I'm betting it will. Would be kinda stupid to carry it into the second season, especially since it's been AGES since anyone even so much as mentioned it. Interesting theory about using it find Bae, definitely a possibility.


    I gotta say, though, am I the only one bothered by the inconsistency with Baelfire? Rumple is centuries old, according to the writers. He was a mortal shortly before Bae left, which means centuries passed between Bae leaving and the curse finally being enacted by the queen. So why in the hell does Rumple even think Bae is alive? How could he possibly expect the curse to bring them to the exact time that the portal brought Bae? What even makes him think Bae traveled through time at all? Isn't it enough that he traveled to a whole new world? (lol Disney reference) I guess he could have tracked down a fairy and got the information, and maybe he then designed the curse to take them to the same place/time as Bae, but still. I'm confused about this whole situation.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of sdcurtis190

    sdcurtis190

    [18]May 2, 2012
    • member since: 04/04/06
    • level: 3
    • rank: Soup Nazi
    • posts: 10

    However it's centuries in Fairytale Land time. Thinking back to the Chronicles of Narnia and the rules of time in other worlds it could be that time operates totally differently.


    Example In the book Prince Caspian when the Pevensies went back to Narnia it had been centuries since they had been there in Narnian time. Care Paravel was in ruin and the story of the White Witch and the Pevensie children with the help of Aslan defeating her had passed into fairytale. However in our world only a year had passed. So it's possible that centuries have passed in Fairytale Land and not much time has passed in our world

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of SpartXen

    SpartXen

    [19]May 2, 2012
    • member since: 03/18/12
    • level: 4
    • rank: Thighmaster
    • posts: 50
    sdcurtis190 wrote:

    However it's centuries in Fairytale Land time. Thinking back to the Chronicles of Narnia and the rules of time in other worlds it could be that time operates totally differently.


    Example In the book Prince Caspian when the Pevensies went back to Narnia it had been centuries since they had been there in Narnian time. Care Paravel was in ruin and the story of the White Witch and the Pevensie children with the help of Aslan defeating her had passed into fairytale. However in our world only a year had passed. So it's possible that centuries have passed in Fairytale Land and not much time has passed in our world



    I'm perfectly fine if that is the case. I can accept that no problem. What I can't accept is that Rumple knows how FTL time and RW time relate to each other. He would have to understand how time works in both worlds in order to find Bae, and I don't see how that's possible. He would have to go to someone pretty powerful to get that kind of intel. And how did he manage to create a curse that would take him to the same time period as Bae? It's just way too much to ignore or pass of as coincidence, and I hate plot holes. I really want some explanation here.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Dracomom

    Dracomom

    [20]May 2, 2012
    • member since: 01/16/12
    • level: 5
    • rank: Caveman Lawyer
    • posts: 218

    Liking this discussion!


    It occurred to me that maybe the Ogres have taken over FTL in Rumplestiltskin's absence- remember the gang of nasty characters present the first time Regina tried to cast the Dark Curse? Maybe the "happy ending" she promised was that they did get to take over. Even if it's only for a while. Maybe some of the future conflict is kicking them out?


    Alternatively- Storybrooke is a veneer laid over FTL; the magic is buried underneath. (That ties in with why Regina wants to cover over the mine- if found, the "diamond dust" could resupply everyone's magic!) There are several sites that seem to parallel, like the well/Lake Nostos; so it's possible. Or maybe Emma has a little magic from going down into the mine to get Henry?


    I suspect the "preparations" the fairies had to make were ways to preserve artifacts or magical items- Maybe that's where the Book came from?


    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.